Daryl Sutter and Flames

[tmac70]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

You've got my support.   Not sure what else you could possibly want

 

I don't actually care about the Sutter firing.  He's had a good run, it's part of the profession.   He's got some blame to share.    The general single-finger-pointing at the coach right now, historically, doesn't age well.

So yeah.  IMHO you're right.    On the other hand I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a clean slate at this point.

What gets me agitated is its the same crap over and over, hire fire, not right for the team not the team for the coach. Trade this away cause its the player we need, oh said player doesn't fit the room, toss more draft picks and prospects willy-nilly into the wind and hope the Satoshi Nakamoto we get back sticks and doesn't leave a skid mark. The best part of this is some mentioned they should reinvestigate bringing Trevling back, FFS. This club is a mess and you even think it is ok to say hey we got rid of the big bad coach it's okay now, he's gone. The man left a worse negative impact on the club if not more the Sutter. 

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Actually, could careless everyone seems to miss the point. This was not a one-sided issue, but one person took the whole blame. So you changed the sheet smells clean and feels great but it's still the same Satoshi Nakamototy bed. You have changed nothing right now just created more issues. The sad part is there is no accountability for the Satoshi Nakamototy efforts on the ice. I hold minimal optimism you see a Boston type turn around with this club

 

ssh.  It's all fine.  Sutter was to blame.

 

2025 is a great draft year.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

What gets me agitated is its the same crap over and over, hire fire, not right for the team not the team for the coach. Trade this away cause its the player we need, oh said player doesn't fit the room, toss more draft picks and prospects willy-nilly into the wind and hope the Satoshi Nakamoto we get back sticks and doesn't leave a skid mark. The best part of this is some mentioned they should reinvestigate bringing Trevling back, FFS. This club is a mess and you even think it is ok to say hey we got rid of the big bad coach it's okay now, he's gone. The man left a worse negative impact on the club if not more the Sutter. 

 

I can't relate because I've never been agitated on here.

 

jokes!

 

So, I'm kind of stuck on the owner theory that we need owners who have long term goals with the organization.

  According to the latest rumors, something is very close to happening there.

   So if a few dominoes have to full, so be it.

 

      It's kind of the coach's job to get blamed for everything, they know when they sign up.   So while I completely agree with you, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.    Excuses are being used up.

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Actually, could careless everyone seems to miss the point. This was not a one-sided issue, but one person took the whole blame. So you changed the sheet smells clean and feels great but it's still the same Satoshi Nakamototy bed. You have changed nothing right now just created more issues.  

 

I get what you're saying. I think a lot of us believe it was an all encompassing problem. I don't think it was just the coach, but he sets the tone for the locker room. I get that guys should just do their jobs, but when you don't agree with the coaches approach, then there is a problem. 

 

I think that Huberdeau played horribly most of the year, trying to force things that weren't there a lot of the time. It was kind of the same with Mangiapane, who tried, but maybe his injury he could only do so much. 

 

I think that the GM wears a lot of it too. The team was not built well enough and it is going to be even worse next year, from where we are now, and it depends on the changes coming. But the roster is a mess, and was a mess, and maybe Sutter believed it was all he could do. But I think he tried to outcoach what was given to him, and lived and breathed with his decisions and didn't waiver. I don't know why he didn't, but he didn't, and was as firm as he could be in his own decisions. 

 

I think that with Tanev being injured a lot doesn't help this year. 

[robrob74]

39 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

What gets me agitated is its the same crap over and over, hire fire, not right for the team not the team for the coach. Trade this away cause its the player we need, oh said player doesn't fit the room, toss more draft picks and prospects willy-nilly into the wind and hope the Satoshi Nakamoto we get back sticks and doesn't leave a skid mark. The best part of this is some mentioned they should reinvestigate bringing Trevling back, FFS. This club is a mess and you even think it is ok to say hey we got rid of the big bad coach it's okay now, he's gone. The man left a worse negative impact on the club if not more the Sutter. 

 

I am getting this same frustration. It is too much to just pin it on the coach. I get that it was a "good team." I just don't think good teams go with these steep ebb and flows. It's definitely more than just the coach. Coach was just one big part of the horrible year. 

 

I think this is what you get when you cut corners. A lot say there are always going to be holes in a roster. But I think there needs to be more of a plan, or the plan followed through, but also a result of players not panning out in the plan too I guess. But you're right, we've been in a very slow sinking ship, taking plugs that fills a hole to fill another hole. 

 

For me, I'd like to see all of this rhetoric crap be indoors, not out in the media. If Sutter doesn't have to be so sarcastic about Pelletier and Phillips, then things might change, and the pooper comment. I think there's a way to be tactful in a firm way without throwing players too far under a bus. 

 

I think the fact that Sutter throws his players under the bus, is he exempt from it? Or is it justified that Huberdeau shares his feelings in the matter? Or is never allowed to after he'd been called out in media? 

I just don't think the coach should be exempt, as it's a power move, if a player isn't happy with a coach, if they voice it, they run the risk of less playing time. I just think it should all be quiet. 

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I can't relate because I've never been agitated on here.

 

jokes!

 

So, I'm kind of stuck on the owner theory that we need owners who have long term goals with the organization.

  According to the latest rumors, something is very close to happening there.

   So if a few dominoes have to full, so be it.

 

      It's kind of the coach's job to get blamed for everything, they know when they sign up.   So while I completely agree with you, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.    Excuses are being used up.

Lol I may sound worked up but could actually be careless. It is just an opinion, that is all. I just don't like this snowflake mentality now. If you play like Satoshi Nakamoto and the coach states the same don't run to the media and your agent oh he hurt my feelings.  You get paid very well to do a job that many would kill to have and all you can give is a 50% effort, get bent. 

[robrob74]

45 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Lol I may sound worked up but could actually be careless. It is just an opinion, that is all. I just don't like this snowflake mentality now. If you play like Satoshi Nakamoto and the coach states the same don't run to the media and your agent oh he hurt my feelings.  You get paid very well to do a job that many would kill to have and all you can give is a 50% effort, get bent. 

players should be allowed to call out a coach then too, when they make crap decisions all season.

[phoenix66]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I can't relate because I've never been agitated on here.

 

jokes!

 

So, I'm kind of stuck on the owner theory that we need owners who have long term goals with the organization.

  According to the latest rumors, something is very close to happening there.

   So if a few dominoes have to full, so be it.

 

      It's kind of the coach's job to get blamed for everything, they know when they sign up.   So while I completely agree with you, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.    Excuses are being used up.

If you're referring to the rumor that Edwards is talking about selling..that's already been squashed..

 

 

In fairness to Hubie the interview he was more upset for Pelletier than himself..even said what many who actually understand Sutter already know.. what he said in the media wasn't what he said in the room..  went up to him and made a point of saying he had a great game ..

 

But it's true. It's on the players now..you got your way so you're excuses are gone..I still believe the whole Sutter witch hunt was heavily media drven..

Kadri played for Babcock and played quite well... Huberdeau played for Quenneville..also very demanding 

 

But here we are .. no sense even speculating on next moves until we have a gm... Then we'll have an idea what this team might look like ...

Not even any sense speculating on who that might be since I don't treliving was on any predictions back then.. In fact I think most were clamoring for Benning.(the next great one out of Boston!). thank god Vancouver took that bullet lol... Personally I'm hoping for Sean Burke,..I think he's got a great mind 

 

Part of me really really really hopes we get Quenneville for a coach.. should always be careful what you wish for lol

[Thebrewcrew]

Bruce Cassidy was a good coach for the Bruins.

 

Last summer Patrice Bergeron alluded to retirement if they brought Cassidy back. Krejci’s departure to Europe was due to the coach and his return around the coach being replaced. The Jake Debrusk trade request was rescinded after the coaching change was announced.

 

This happens throughout the league. It’s not just a Calgary Flames issue

[DirtyDeeds]

Seravalli: Flames trade demands rescinded following Darryl Sutter’s departure (msn.com)

 

So apparently the players who wanted to leave are going to stay now that Sutter is gone......

 

However they did not mention names on the radio when talking about it...

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Seravalli: Flames trade demands rescinded following Darryl Sutter’s departure (msn.com)

 

So apparently the players who wanted to leave are going to stay now that Sutter is gone......

 

However they did not mention names on the radio when talking about it...

 

Oof we have to wonder did this move happen one year too late?  Maybe Gaudreau and Tkachuk would've stayed?

 

We know Keith Tkachuk never liked the Sutter family and maybe Matthew's decision to leave had a lot to do with having to play under Sutter for many years.  A new coach might have made life here easier.

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Seravalli: Flames trade demands rescinded following Darryl Sutter’s departure (msn.com)

 

So apparently the players who wanted to leave are going to stay now that Sutter is gone......

 

However they did not mention names on the radio when talking about it...

Oh no, but what if I want some of them traded?

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Oh no, but what if I want some of them traded?

Really how can one not look at the players as well? The word is some but not all had issues, Toffoli was one for sure. So is he traded now because he was a supporter? There will be a disconnect in the room, shots have been fired already with the hope they can handle the next coach's comments, The ones who played till the end will most likely be voted off the island IMHO, now you are stuck with the same whiny culture as before. Hash this crap out behind closed doors like men, not like a child, and run to your agent or the media. Sutter got himself fired, however, where my issue is you can't fire the players for their poor performances and lack of effort. This process now provides you with cultural and organizational issues as not everyone is held to the same standards. Allowing someone a voice is great but with that, there needs to be standards and accountability, there is none. Look in the mirror and point because 99% of the issues stem from the individual your looking at. 

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Really how can one not look at the players as well? The word is some but not all had issues, Toffoli was one for sure. So is he traded now because he was a supporter? There will be a disconnect in the room, shots have been fired already with the hope they can handle the next coach's comments, The ones who played till the end will most likely be voted off the island IMHO, now you are stuck with the same whiny culture as before. Hash this crap out behind closed doors like men, not like a child, and run to your agent or the media. Sutter got himself fired, however, where my issue is you can't fire the players for their poor performances and lack of effort. This process now provides you with cultural and organizational issues as not everyone is held to the same standards. Allowing someone a voice is great but with that, there needs to be standards and accountability, there is none. Look in the mirror and point because 99% of the issues stem from the individual your looking at. 

This in a nutshell as to why we need a captain next year.. the captain is the buffer between the coach and players .. the captain is the one voice who can go to the coach and talk about issues in the room and also let the players vent and calm them down..  too many voices going in all directions created chaos in this case 

[cross16]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oof we have to wonder did this move happen one year too late?  Maybe Gaudreau and Tkachuk would've stayed?

 

We know Keith Tkachuk never liked the Sutter family and maybe Matthew's decision to leave had a lot to do with having to play under Sutter for many years.  A new coach might have made life here easier.

I personally don’t think it would have changed anything. I think Sutter was a small part of Tkachuk decision but not enough that it would have swayed him. 

[jjgallow]

13 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Lol I may sound worked up but could actually be careless. It is just an opinion, that is all. I just don't like this snowflake mentality now. If you play like Satoshi Nakamoto and the coach states the same don't run to the media and your agent oh he hurt my feelings.  You get paid very well to do a job that many would kill to have and all you can give is a 50% effort, get bent. 

 

Yup.   there were a few things.   players who were most vocal were the players who put in the least amount of effort.

          And...the ones coming off their contract years.

   always funny how that works. 

 

    Did they have a point?  Probably.    Was that an excuse for the lack of effort we saw this year?   

 

Boil it right down, others have said this too, we missed the playoffs due to goaltending/D.  If we want to boil it down to a singular cause, math tells us it's that.    And I don't blame Sutter for this, although I don't agree with all his goaltending decisions he didn't have much to work with unless he wanted to gamble on Wolf, but this is too debatable to simply blame the coach.   Like really, Markstrom and Vladar sucked.  So no playoffs for us.

 

If you want to talk about why we weren't a contender, well, we can't blame that all on goaltending.   And yes, some of that was the coach.  I would say a Large part was player efforts.   So yeah.  Sutter, is part of this conversation.  So is how the players responded to coming off their contract years.    And so is the GM/owners.   

       IMHO, the biggest factor was GM/owners, because nothing here is new and they set 100% of it in motion.

 

But if we get a rebound with a new coach, great.  lol.  We usually get one.  Not sure the next one will last a whole season though.

[jjgallow]

12 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

If you're referring to the rumor that Edwards is talking about selling..that's already been squashed..

 

 

In fairness to Hubie the interview he was more upset for Pelletier than himself..even said what many who actually understand Sutter already know.. what he said in the media wasn't what he said in the room..  went up to him and made a point of saying he had a great game ..

 

But it's true. It's on the players now..you got your way so you're excuses are gone..I still believe the whole Sutter witch hunt was heavily media drven..

Kadri played for Babcock and played quite well... Huberdeau played for Quenneville..also very demanding 

 

But here we are .. no sense even speculating on next moves until we have a gm... Then we'll have an idea what this team might look like ...

Not even any sense speculating on who that might be since I don't treliving was on any predictions back then.. In fact I think most were clamoring for Benning.(the next great one out of Boston!). thank god Vancouver took that bullet lol... Personally I'm hoping for Sean Burke,..I think he's got a great mind 

 

Part of me really really really hopes we get Quenneville for a coach.. should always be careful what you wish for lol

 

agreed with all this.  too bad that got squashed, I was hopeful on the owner front. 

[phoenix66]

Hearing bits and pieces, and comments .. I believe i know where Daryl went wrong this year .

He's always toyed with the media, room stuff stayed in the room. In the past if he ripped a player it was a tactic usually with the player having advance knowledge when he did it ..   I recall Markstrom had a stinker last year, he didnt rip him , he sent Jason Labarbara out to do the presser ..

 

Bottom line.. with all his antics, his players always knew he had their back..regardless of what was publicly said.

This year, no captain to buffer and a few badly worded pressers ( I still say the Pelletier thing was a shot at the media, not Jacob) they lost that sense of him having their back.. i think a real captain would have helped get more buy in 

 

[cross16]

I don't think the sentiment that the players quit on the coach or didn't accept his challenge is fair at all. I think there were a number of things that went wrong last year but I think one thing you could count on with the group was they were going to work and work hard. A lot of teams in their situation would have folded down the stretch but they didn't, they kept battling. They'd get down in games and come back, even late in the year. Even players having crap years, like Huberdeau, I don't think were ever giving up or short changing the team/coach in terms of their effort. Obviously you have the Kadri thing but that's isolated, the rest of the team was pushing IMO. 

 

I think it's completely unfair to paint this as a team that was afraid of hard coach or woudln't accept hard feedback, because they sure didn't play like one. I think this is as simple as many of the players just felt that in order for them to succeed they needed a new boss and were prepared to leave to find that. Which is what I bet that 90% of the average person would do to. 

 

And just to be clear I'm not suggesting that means this team is fine. I don't think this team is talented enough to compete as a contender, i'm just saying that iMO this was a hard working team last year. 

 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Oh no, but what if I want some of them traded?

 

No one wants Kadri and Huberdeau anyways.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Really how can one not look at the players as well? The word is some but not all had issues, Toffoli was one for sure. So is he traded now because he was a supporter? There will be a disconnect in the room, shots have been fired already with the hope they can handle the next coach's comments, The ones who played till the end will most likely be voted off the island IMHO, now you are stuck with the same whiny culture as before. Hash this crap out behind closed doors like men, not like a child, and run to your agent or the media. Sutter got himself fired, however, where my issue is you can't fire the players for their poor performances and lack of effort. This process now provides you with cultural and organizational issues as not everyone is held to the same standards. Allowing someone a voice is great but with that, there needs to be standards and accountability, there is none. Look in the mirror and point because 99% of the issues stem from the individual your looking at. 

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I don't think the sentiment that the players quit on the coach or didn't accept his challenge is fair at all. I think there were a number of things that went wrong last year but I think one thing you could count on with the group was they were going to work and work hard. A lot of teams in their situation would have folded down the stretch but they didn't, they kept battling. They'd get down in games and come back, even late in the year. Even players having crap years, like Huberdeau, I don't think were ever giving up or short changing the team/coach in terms of their effort. Obviously you have the Kadri thing but that's isolated, the rest of the team was pushing IMO. 

 

I think it's completely unfair to paint this as a team that was afraid of hard coach or woudln't accept hard feedback, because they sure didn't play like one. I think this is as simple as many of the players just felt that in order for them to succeed they needed a new boss and were prepared to leave to find that. Which is what I bet that 90% of the average person would do to. 

 

And just to be clear I'm not suggesting that means this team is fine. I don't think this team is talented enough to compete as a contender, i'm just saying that iMO this was a hard working team last year. 

 

I'd say all of these things are the result of an incredibly frustrating season for everyone. Maybe it's best to let the frustration go away and look forward. All arguments are fair, really. There's just no point in harbouring all of the annoyance this season was. Lets just get better. It'll be fine =)

[oldschoolplayer]

I would like to see a field of dreams game. The players of old against the players of today. Use the old rules, with today's equipment. Get that red line activated, and get ready to work your way through the neutral zone all you snow flakes. 

 

I hope Sutter goes to another team and brings in another couple of cups. Those players who didn't want to play Sutter's style had no business signing with the team. A team name change is in order; The Keystone Flames. 

[cross16]

19 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

I'd say all of these things are the result of an incredibly frustrating season for everyone. Maybe it's best to let the frustration go away and look forward. All arguments are fair, really. There's just no point in harbouring all of the annoyance this season was. Lets just get better. It'll be fine 😃

 

I think it's fair to have differing opinions for sure but I don't think all narratives are fair. I'm actually not upset about any of this. 

 

I just think this narrative that Sutter took the fall for lazy players and that they should have just sucked it up isn't fair. Just as I would say that the narrative that Sutter is the reason the flames had a bad year also isn't fair. 

 

At the end of the day I think this is as simple as the coach was just not the right fit for these players and the organization moving forward. I don't see the need or value in pointing fingers or creating narratives past that personally. 

 

And all just add that i'm not sure anyone sees this as a cure all. Plenty of things the Flames need to be concerned with in order to get better next year. 

[oldschoolplayer]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think it's fair to have differing opinions for sure but I don't think all narratives are fair. I'm actually not upset about any of this. 

 

I just think this narrative that Sutter took the fall for lazy players and that they should have just sucked it up isn't fair. Just as I would say that the narrative that Sutter is the reason the flames had a bad year also isn't fair. 

 

At the end of the day I think this is as simple as the coach was just not the right fit for these players and the organization moving forward. I don't see the need or value in pointing fingers or creating narratives past that personally. 

Hey cross, 

We all have our take. I agree 2 out of 3. The flames weren't lazy. They had bad luck with 9 million posts. The team looked good. That game where Lanny came on and said to stick with the coach was an obvious indicator that he knew about a player insurection. That player insurection peez me off. If players sign to a team, they should be ready to play the style of that team, period. 

 

Sutter isn't the reason for that bad luck either. 

 

Throwing the towel in like that is juvenile managerial knee jerk, and I'm sick of this oldschool bad rap crap. 

 

Is Don Malone the savior of this team? Hahaha on that. 

 

Maybe the team could use that old Wings coach, Mike Babcock, or is he too 'old' too? 

[Heartbreaker]

16 minutes ago, oldschoolplayer said:

Hey cross, 

We all have our take. I agree 2 out of 3. The flames weren't lazy. They had bad luck with 9 million posts. The team looked good. That game where Lanny came on and said to stick with the coach was an obvious indicator that he knew about a player insurection. That player insurection peez me off. If players sign to a team, they should be ready to play the style of that team, period. 

 

Sutter isn't the reason for that bad luck either. 

 

Throwing the towel in like that is juvenile managerial knee jerk, and I'm sick of this oldschool bad rap crap. 

 

Is Don Malone the savior of this team? Hahaha on that. 

 

Maybe the team could use that old Wings coach, Mike Babcock, or is he too 'old' too? 

 

I think an argument could be made that they did play the style that was asked of them. They were a high shot volume team, and they minimized chances against. That said, the high shot volume is a red herring because the actual high danger chances were very low. You can throw 50 pucks at the net from the outside, and very few will go in against even the weakest NHL goaltender. Did you ever wonder why so many goalies looked good against the Flames this year? It's because the shots were not great. On the other side of that, even though they minimized shots against, they didn't have great goaltending. They didn't even have average goaltending.

 

It didn't go according to plan this year. I don't think there's a good argument to be made that the players were lazy, or that they didn't execute the plan. There was a lot of bad luck, of course, but there have also been reports that they didn't ever practice the power play. They didn't ever practice 3x3 because, according to Darryl, "You don't play 3x3 in the playoffs."

 

Evidently, nobody told Darryl that 17 OT losses probably means that you're not even in the playoffs.

 

So, while I don't think that you can simply point the finger at Darryl, and say it's all good now, I also don't think that the coach was ever going to be a part of the solution. By the end of the season, he looked checked out, too. Maybe that's why the season was on Nick Ritchie's stick during that shootout. There are reports that he alienated a lot more people in the organization than just the players. No one needs that, Man, even if you're a HOF coach.

Love.