Daryl Sutter and Flames

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I think it's fair to have differing opinions for sure but I don't think all narratives are fair. I'm actually not upset about any of this. 

 

I just think this narrative that Sutter took the fall for lazy players and that they should have just sucked it up isn't fair. Just as I would say that the narrative that Sutter is the reason the flames had a bad year also isn't fair. 

 

At the end of the day I think this is as simple as the coach was just not the right fit for these players and the organization moving forward. I don't see the need or value in pointing fingers or creating narratives past that personally. 

 

And all just add that i'm not sure anyone sees this as a cure all. Plenty of things the Flames need to be concerned with in order to get better next year. 

 

I think everything that could go wrong went wrong this season. We can only look at what was and it wasn't one thing. 
 

 

[oldschoolplayer]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think everything that could go wrong went wrong this season. We can only look at what was and it wasn't one thing. 
 

 

We could try to figure out the biggest thing that went wrong. My vote is the 9000 posts. 

[oldschoolplayer]

The high shot volume created the record music on the posts. If the posts are playing continuous music it means there are good scoring chances. 

It just wasn't my kind of music. My kind of music are the post shots that go in. 

 

As for 3 on 3 overtime and shootouts I think that crap should be removed from the game. It's juvenile throwing points around. They aren't a part of hockey and shouldn't be. Maybe a part of the nhl but not a part of the game which belongs to all of us, not just the nhl. 

Nick R was one of the few guys showing a move on the goalies. I would have used him too. 

 

I want to see the nhl become a hard nosed sport like it was intended to be in the beginning. Enough of the direction it's heading. Too much lovey dovey in the hockey is unentertaining. 

[redfire11]

30 minutes ago, oldschoolplayer said:

I want to see the nhl become a hard nosed sport like it was intended to be in the beginning. Enough of the direction it's heading. Too much lovey dovey in the hockey is unentertaining. 

This is happening in everything now a days and was bound to affect the NHL forcing it to be kinder and gentler. Are there any constructive conclusions? I will contemplate this while I scratch my beard catching some rays in my bikini drinking a bud light. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, oldschoolplayer said:

The high shot volume created the record music on the posts. If the posts are playing continuous music it means there are good scoring chances. 

It just wasn't my kind of music. My kind of music are the post shots that go in. 

 

As for 3 on 3 overtime and shootouts I think that crap should be removed from the game. It's juvenile throwing points around. They aren't a part of hockey and shouldn't be. Maybe a part of the nhl but not a part of the game which belongs to all of us, not just the nhl. 

Nick R was one of the few guys showing a move on the goalies. I would have used him too. 

 

I want to see the nhl become a hard nosed sport like it was intended to be in the beginning. Enough of the direction it's heading. Too much lovey dovey in the hockey is unentertaining. 

 

Watched by gentleman.  Played by thugs.

 

It was fun but those days are gone.  League is trying to grow and when that happens, rules have to change to be more inclusive.

[oldschoolplayer]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Watched by gentleman.  Played by thugs.

 

It was fun but those days are gone.  League is trying to grow and when that happens, rules have to change to be more inclusive.

That is juzt more of the crap that is permeating out of our diseased society. Redfire11 summed that up, above. 

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, oldschoolplayer said:

That is juzt more of the crap that is permeating out of our diseased society. Redfire11 summed that up, above. 

Now where is that attitude going to get you?lol

We live in a generational society. The current generation hates the one that came before it and vice versa.

And we call it progress./s

[oldschoolplayer]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Now where is that attitude going to get you?lol

We live in a generational society. The current generation hates the one that came before it and vice versa.

And we call it progress./s

lol

I didn't hate the generations before me. I viewed them with respect and awe, still do, especially hockey players. That's another thing that bugs me, that buying into the generation gap crap. It's pied piper fueled. 

[jjgallow]

Sutter's in the media today.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2022/10/08/calgary-flames-make-a-no-brainer-decision-re-signing-darryl-sutter-to-a-two-year-extension/

 

Maybe that's the right link?  Lol

[oldschoolplayer]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Sutter's in the media today.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2022/10/08/calgary-flames-make-a-no-brainer-decision-re-signing-darryl-sutter-to-a-two-year-extension/

 

Maybe that's the right link?  Lol

That makes me want to kick something. 

Getting fired and having millions stuffed into your shirt pocket must be real hard to handle. 

That organization now has zero appeal to me until they prove otherwise.

I hope Sutter goes back to coaching for a real organization in a couple of years and brings in a couple more cups. 

The Golden Showers win the cup! Big deal. It's all about betting anyway. 

I am very sour on the nhl in general. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, oldschoolplayer said:

That makes me want to kick something. 

Getting fired and having millions stuffed into your shirt pocket must be real hard to handle. 

That organization now has zero appeal to me until they prove otherwise.

I hope Sutter goes back to coaching for a real organization in a couple of years and brings in a couple more cups. 

The Golden Showers win the cup! Big deal. It's all about betting anyway. 

I am very sour on the nhl in general. 

 

well

 

NHL's got its issues but hockey's still great.

 

Sometimes I make jokes that really only make sense to me.  this is probably one of those times.

 

Here is the actual news article from today:

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/06/16/report-calgary-flames-launched-internal-investigation-into-darryl-sutters-last-season/

[oldschoolplayer]

26 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

well

 

NHL's got its issues but hockey's still great.

 

Sometimes I make jokes that really only make sense to me.  this is probably one of those times.

 

Here is the actual news article from today:

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/06/16/report-calgary-flames-launched-internal-investigation-into-darryl-sutters-last-season/

I love hockey and always will but big money buggerd the game, be it hockey or any sport of your choice. The nhl is hockey but hockey isn't the nhl. 

What was treliving doing signing players that don't like Sutter's way?

Too bad the team threw out 8 million bucks. So much for the deal seeking dollar pinching ways of the admin. Anyway, I am disenchanted with the org for the first time since coming to calgary. Good night. 

 

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, oldschoolplayer said:

I love hockey and always will but big money buggerd the game, be it hockey or any sport of your choice. The nhl is hockey but hockey isn't the nhl. 

What was treliving doing signing players that don't like Sutter's way?

Too bad the team threw out 8 million bucks. So much for the deal seeking dollar pinching ways of the admin. Anyway, I am disenchanted with the org for the first time since coming to calgary. Good night. 

 

 

I actually kind of regret posting this after a good sleep, I have my issues with the NHL but even moreso with media.

 

Sutter is an "f around find out" kind of farm boy, and so are a number of players on the team.

 

It's impossible to draw any kind of conclusion from the article about the "physical altercation" from the complete lack of information.    The funny part is the "reporters" were stroking each other with compliments about all the hard work in "cracking the case" lol.

 

Something happened.  We know that.   What relevance it had, how significant it was, we may never know or at least not know for years.

 

I remain neutral on Sutter.    Never liked him as a GM.   As a coach, that's another story.  He could be the best coach in the world and he'd still be fired here in no time, we've done that on multiple occasions so I can't really draw any conclusions.   Even blaming the GM, I get accused of using him as a scapegoat, which..may, or may not be true.  I honestly don't know..time will tell.   

 

One thing for sure is...we had bigger problems.

[oldschoolplayer]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I actually kind of regret posting this after a good sleep, I have my issues with the NHL but even moreso with media.

 

Sutter is an "f around find out" kind of farm boy, and so are a number of players on the team.

 

It's impossible to draw any kind of conclusion from the article about the "physical altercation" from the complete lack of information.    The funny part is the "reporters" were stroking each other with compliments about all the hard work in "cracking the case" lol.

 

Something happened.  We know that.   What relevance it had, how significant it was, we may never know or at least not know for years.

 

I remain neutral on Sutter.    Never liked him as a GM.   As a coach, that's another story.  He could be the best coach in the world and he'd still be fired here in no time, we've done that on multiple occasions so I can't really draw any conclusions.   Even blaming the GM, I get accused of using him as a scapegoat, which..may, or may not be true.  I honestly don't know..time will tell.   

 

One thing for sure is...we had bigger problems.

I like what and how you said it. I will respond when I can make the time to sit down. 🫠

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

I remain neutral on Sutter.    Never liked him as a GM.   As a coach, that's another story.  He could be the best coach in the world and he'd still be fired here in no time, we've done that on multiple occasions so I can't really draw any conclusions.   Even blaming the GM, I get accused of using him as a scapegoat, which..may, or may not be true.  I honestly don't know..time will tell.   

 

 

That shows a strong bias coloring your opinion, regarding coaching.

Regardless of who we had on the team this past year, was there ever a game that you thought "genius"?

I don't consider rolling 4 lines as smart if your 4th line is mostly crap.

They had good games, but nowhere near 20 of them.

Starting the 4th line immediately after a PP?

Like you know that you have a rested player coming out.

The offensive guys don't kill penalties.

So, you get a top line coming out.  Duh.

 

[jjgallow]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That shows a strong bias coloring your opinion, regarding coaching.

Regardless of who we had on the team this past year, was there ever a game that you thought "genius"?

I don't consider rolling 4 lines as smart if your 4th line is mostly crap.

They had good games, but nowhere near 20 of them.

Starting the 4th line immediately after a PP?

Like you know that you have a rested player coming out.

The offensive guys don't kill penalties.

So, you get a top line coming out.  Duh.

 

 

Everything above just indicates to me that things were dysfunctional. 

 

What made them dysfunctional is another question but if it was isolated to coaching then I don't think our GM would have left.

 

Not praising Sutter, just saying there is clearly more that went on

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Everything above just indicates to me that things were dysfunctional. 

 

What made them dysfunctional is another question but if it was isolated to coaching then I don't think our GM would have left.

 

Not praising Sutter, just saying there is clearly more that went on

 

It doesn't take much to become dysfuntional.  Coach building the bottom with his ideal players.  Goalie choices that see first shot goals has players wondering why they have to score an extra 2 or 3 just to have a chance.  Pissing on the young guys in front of the vets.  Talking up a guy that is completely uselss and the rest are just doing their job.  

 

You can blame the GM overall for the roster available.  The GM wasn't able to get the coach to use those players.  Not much point in saving a roster spot for Valimaki when the coach has said he doesn't belong.  

[sagacity7]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't take much to become dysfuntional.  Coach building the bottom with his ideal players.  Goalie choices that see first shot goals has players wondering why they have to score an extra 2 or 3 just to have a chance.  Pissing on the young guys in front of the vets.  Talking up a guy that is completely uselss and the rest are just doing their job.  

 

You can blame the GM overall for the roster available.  The GM wasn't able to get the coach to use those players.  Not much point in saving a roster spot for Valimaki when the coach has said he doesn't belong.  

True. Bennett wanted out, Gaudreau wouldn’t come back. Tkachuk. You could even say Monahan was shown the door by moving him down the lineup and asking him to play a different role - ruining his overall value. Treliving could have moved him then rather than let him cost us a first round pick if they knew he wasn’t good enough for top line minutes any more.
 

It was a destruction of asset management which started here and the players no longer bought in to the shenanigans after a couple of years. No trust or confidence in the coach anymore. At the end even the GM wasn’t being listened to by the coach. I can see why Treliving wouldn’t come back.

 

It became a mess of misusing players and not allowing them to play where their strengths are. The mistreatment may have even been more so in the locker room. We will never know. Sutter likes his whipping boys. He used to even say Iginla was good “when he was moving his feet”. My way or the highway for players never goes well for a coach. He’s not paid $80 million big ones. You can be hard on a player as a coach - no problem, most players can handle it. When you mess with everything about the team though, many will not want to be there. It becomes a hostile environment and like the rest of us, would you stay in a job where you aren’t happy or would you look for another opportunity?

[The_Tribal Chief]

Personally imo if your the Coach you put player in positions to suceed and Darry Always Tried Putting Hubie in Positions To Fail we Complain that Hubie Complained After Darryl was Let go then Play the Guy on the Side he is Strong on When darryl did close to the end of the Season that was when Hubie Started to heating then poof next game opposite Wing again that he isnt strong on

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

Personally imo if your the Coach you put player in positions to suceed and Darry Always Tried Putting Hubie in Positions To Fail we Complain that Hubie Complained After Darryl was Let go then Play the Guy on the Side he is Strong on When darryl did close to the end of the Season that was when Hubie Started to heating then poof next game opposite Wing again that he isnt strong on

 

To add to that TC, he was good in the first 6 games before Sutter trashed the lineup and bag skated the team.  Hubey with Lindholm, but hey we got scored on so time to ruin the lineup.  

[The_Tribal Chief]

Well i Forget Td what side he is strong on but the whole year it was the opposite side and that is why i disliked darryl aswell as his disrespect for players saying hubie eg went for a S*it like come on really then the crap with pelltier i lost all respect for him after that.. if hubie is injured say it dont be a idiot

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

Well i Forget Td what side he is strong on but the whole year it was the opposite side and that is why i disliked darryl aswell as his disrespect for players saying hubie eg went for a S*it like come on really then the crap with pelltier i lost all respect for him after that.. if hubie is injured say it dont be a idiot

 

If I recall, he played LW with Lindholm.  Think it may have been Toffoli on the other side.  One of the first goals they score was an amazing pass from Hubey to Lindy on a ruh.  GOAL.  The comments were his attempt at being funny, but it came off wrong.  He was just being the usual jerk at pressers.  When you have to come back and say why you pretended to not know his number, then the joke failed.  My beef is more to not getting what he was seeing.  The lines are broken, you don't keep doing it over and over.  

 

Coaching was as much the difference between no playoffs and getting in as goaltemding or not scoring.  I can probably think of 10 games that coaching mistakes caused the loss.  Inclues picking the wrong goalie when it was obvious to fans.  Includes using the wrong lines at the wrong time.  Whatever, we are done woth the fool.  Appreciate what he was able to get out of the players in year 1.  Everything else was a fail.

[jjgallow]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't take much to become dysfuntional.  Coach building the bottom with his ideal players.  Goalie choices that see first shot goals has players wondering why they have to score an extra 2 or 3 just to have a chance.  Pissing on the young guys in front of the vets.  Talking up a guy that is completely uselss and the rest are just doing their job.  

 

You can blame the GM overall for the roster available.  The GM wasn't able to get the coach to use those players.  Not much point in saving a roster spot for Valimaki when the coach has said he doesn't belong.  

 

Point made, but for instance,  both goalies were awful and Wolf was most certainly not ready to take the bulk of the games.

 

That's mostly on the gm, partly on the goalie coaches and slightly on Sutter who got to choose between awful and awful each game.

 

That alone is the main reason for missing the playoffs,  looking at the numbers.     And the main issue was a boat anchor contract on an aging asset.

 

Everything else is true but doesn't really show in the stats.  We were otherwise close.    Especially considering that Huberdeau and Kadri is not Gaudreau and Tkachuk.     That we gave Monahan and Bennet away.    It's true but it kind of sidesteps the elephant in the room of our entire core being gutted out and replaced with inferior players on boat anchor contracts.

 

So...was Sutter pissed at what he was given to work with and did he unsuccessfully try to motivate/mold them?  Yes most definitely,  ans I think he learned what happens when you try and mold aging guys on boat anchor contracts. 

 

All I'm saying is...again....we had bigger issues.  Not saying saying the coaching was perfect.

 

We'll find out soon after the honeymoon period with our new coach and same players.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Coaching was as much the difference between no playoffs and getting in as goaltemding or not scoring.  I can probably think of 10 games that coaching mistakes caused the loss.  Inclues picking the wrong goalie when it was obvious to fans.  Includes using the wrong lines at the wrong time.  Whatever, we are done woth the fool.  Appreciate what he was able to get out of the players in year 1.  Everything else was a fail.

 

See we're not actually that far off, I'm just saying the goaltending and players was as much a difference as the coaching.

 

Call it 50/50 and we're both unsatisfied but there.   Problem is, even with that getting rid of the coach only solves half your problem.  Assuming that the new coach completely solves half.

 

The other half is basically a rebuild.

 

 

I have no idea what went down, whatsoever, but I do think that the issues with goaltending and players likely caused the issues with coaching.  and it spiralled from there.      In my own pure imagination, it might have gone something like this:

 

At some point midway through season, Sutter communicated to BT in some fashion (probably through a series of grunts) that "you have given me shiit players and you are a shiit GM).

 

BT internalized this through a series of blaming Gaudreau and Tkachuk (sure but he shoulda seen it), blaming the coach (sure but he was all smiles when he signed him long term), and blaming the owners (ok maybe).

 

Realized he Might have the ability to fix the coach, but he'd pay a steep price with the contract he gave Sutter.  Realized he can't fix the players.  Realized he can't fix the owners.   Started browsing Craigslist, and not for draft picks.  Built a case for himself and leaked it to the right people so that he could start applying for jobs.

 

We are stuck with his players and his contracts, and the lack of picks he used to get them.   

I'm not really complaining though, the rebuild will be fun.  Just a couple years longer than I'd liked.

 

I expect a short honeymoon phase with the new coach, followed by disaster.    I am HOPING that Conroy already sees this potential scenario and is preparing the organisation for it, as well as quiet-rebuilding.

 

We'll see.

[oldschoolplayer]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:11 AM, jjgallow said:

 

I actually kind of regret posting this after a good sleep, I have my issues with the NHL but even moreso with media.

 

Sutter is an "f around find out" kind of farm boy, and so are a number of players on the team.

 

It's impossible to draw any kind of conclusion from the article about the "physical altercation" from the complete lack of information.    The funny part is the "reporters" were stroking each other with compliments about all the hard work in "cracking the case" lol.

 

Something happened.  We know that.   What relevance it had, how significant it was, we may never know or at least not know for years.

 

I remain neutral on Sutter.    Never liked him as a GM.   As a coach, that's another story.  He could be the best coach in the world and he'd still be fired here in no time, we've done that on multiple occasions so I can't really draw any conclusions.   Even blaming the GM, I get accused of using him as a scapegoat, which..may, or may not be true.  I honestly don't know..time will tell.   

 

One thing for sure is...we had bigger problems.

Lots of guys will still stand up for themselves when other boys whack them with the gauntlet. I know the government via the media tells us we have evolved past the point of physical confrontation. That's a big load of beans. It takes two to tango. It's wise to keep one's beak shut about it too, before big brother takes everyone behind the outhouse with his almighty switch. 

 

BT must have had some kind of attendance or at least privy or why would he jump ship so quick? That's thick crap, and good for them for keeping their own business their's. 

 

Sutter crapped out at GM, I agree. He coached the team to one goal away from a cup. Adminiatration should have kept still for another year, another swing. Sutter is a good coach, whether you 'like' his style or not. 

 

For whatever reasons the flames organization is INFAMOUS for moving out good players and coaches, NO DISCUSSION ON THAT. 

 

Another thing that pixxes me off is all the talk about 'old school'. In this present world, gadgets can become old school in a couple of years. It's a delusion that mankind has advanced and evolved into some kind of elevated being; Bull Shxt. I wonder if we really need computers to tell us when to scatch our axxes. Anyway, that is the beginning of a rant.

 

Back to the major issues and while realizing the current situation is and has been going on for a long time, the nhl is all about market expansion, betting and money, it will likely be a long long long time before 'the little team that shouldn' t be' sees another cup. 

I'm tired of feeling like a sucker. Heeeeeres Johnny!