Daryl Sutter and Flames

[oldschoolplayer]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:05 AM, phoenix66 said:

I think to when Sutter came back.. we still had Gio.. the season was a write off but he implemented the blueprint ..then all these players went on career years so it likely hid it a bit.. winning does that.   Then the core changed ..square one ..

I notice nobody was whining about chucky being on his off wing for an entire year ..nobody whined about how Sutter brushed aside personal accomplishments (remeber Sutter saying Johnny's 500th game better be better than his 499th?) .. but when you're losing the media jumps on it 

Sutter needed an ambassador ... New school coaches get to know every player and coach different to each one.  Sutter has one way .and he needs an ambassador to help him sell it ..

.... but then who's to say the right guy would have been appointed to sell it to all those bawling babies. That would have been a magnificent task; he probably would have been ushered down the road too. Shixty attitude cascading all the way down. 

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, oldschoolplayer said:

.... but then who's to say the right guy would have been appointed to sell it to all those bawling babies. That would have been a magnificent task; he probably would have been ushered down the road too. Shixty attitude cascading all the way down. 

That's the point and role of a captain .. it goes upstream and downstream thru him.. 

[oldschoolplayer]

BUY IN BOYS!!! 

[oldschoolplayer]

New school old school, new generation old. The ones who BUY IN to something different are the ones that legends are told. 

Herb Brooks, USA coach who won with underlings, "Feed the wolf." 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, oldschoolplayer said:

.... but then who's to say the right guy would have been appointed to sell it to all those bawling babies. That would have been a magnificent task; he probably would have been ushered down the road too. Shixty attitude cascading all the way down. 

 

That's a stretch.  The players have suggested a toxic work environment.  To call them a bunch of babies is silly.  They are pros and conduct themselves that way.  If you can't even meet with the coach to bounce ideas with, what is the point.  Two players that have suggested they want to play elsewhere; one being Toffoli who went from 3rd line to top line.  Got his career season so he wants a big contract.  Won't get it in Calgary and likely won't top his career season.  Backlund wanted to be captain.  Played a 3rd line role and has only been a top C for one year maybe.  

 

Maybe try a modern coach that doesn't use methods that only work on one or two guys.  When things don't work out and the team fails every goal they had, the time is right to fire the coach.  Even if he is not responsible for every issue.  

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, oldschoolplayer said:

BUY IN BOYS!!! 

Not always .. sometimes it's the captain coming to the coach with " we got a problem " ..

A coach can have an off the record , heart to heart , debate ..whatever you need to call it.. with a captain or one player ..

When theres a group chaos happening the coach has no choice but to do a " my way or the highway" stand ..

And to be fair ..it's common knowledge what Sutter said in public is reverse of what he showed the media ..  he made the comments about Pelletier everyone lost their minds over but he was the First in the dressing room to congratulate him on the great first game ..

Too much was allowed to fester and simmer ..

[oldschoolplayer]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's a stretch.  The players have suggested a toxic work environment.  To call them a bunch of babies is silly.  They are pros and conduct themselves that way.  If you can't even meet with the coach to bounce ideas with, what is the point.  Two players that have suggested they want to play elsewhere; one being Toffoli who went from 3rd line to top line.  Got his career season so he wants a big contract.  Won't get it in Calgary and likely won't top his career season.  Backlund wanted to be captain.  Played a 3rd line role and has only been a top C for one year maybe.  

 

Maybe try a modern coach that doesn't use methods that only work on one or two guys.  When things don't work out and the team fails every goal they had, the time is right to fire the coach.  Even if he is not responsible for every issue.  

Disagree 😊

[oldschoolplayer]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's a stretch.  The players have suggested a toxic work environment.  To call them a bunch of babies is silly.  They are pros and conduct themselves that way.  If you can't even meet with the coach to bounce ideas with, what is the point.  Two players that have suggested they want to play elsewhere; one being Toffoli who went from 3rd line to top line.  Got his career season so he wants a big contract.  Won't get it in Calgary and likely won't top his career season.  Backlund wanted to be captain.  Played a 3rd line role and has only been a top C for one year maybe.  

 

Maybe try a modern coach that doesn't use methods that only work on one or two guys.  When things don't work out and the team fails every goal they had, the time is right to fire the coach.  Even if he is not responsible for every issue.  

toxic work environment, boohoohoooo. typical. Go practice your shot boys, and use a shooter tutor, not hitting the post. 😁

[oldschoolplayer]

23 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Not always .. sometimes it's the captain coming to the coach with " we got a problem " ..

A coach can have an off the record , heart to heart , debate ..whatever you need to call it.. with a captain or one player ..

When theres a group chaos happening the coach has no choice but to do a " my way or the highway" stand ..

And to be fair ..it's common knowledge what Sutter said in public is reverse of what he showed the media ..  he made the comments about Pelletier everyone lost their minds over but he was the First in the dressing room to congratulate him on the great first game ..

Too much was allowed to fester and simmer ..

LIKE👍

[oldschoolplayer]

26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's a stretch... They are pros and conduct themselves that way.  

Like politicians. 🤓

[oldschoolplayer]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Not always .. sometimes it's the captain coming to the coach with " we got a problem " ..

A coach can have an off the record , heart to heart , debate ..whatever you need to call it.. with a captain or one player ..

When theres a group chaos happening the coach has no choice but to do a " my way or the highway" stand ..

And to be fair ..it's common knowledge what Sutter said in public is reverse of what he showed the media ..  he made the comments about Pelletier everyone lost their minds over but he was the First in the dressing room to congratulate him on the great first game ..

Too much was allowed to fester and simmer ..

Factoring in the ability of the coach, for sure... and the captain... 

[jjgallow]

 

 

that girl in red:  "Come on Zadorov, get off the bus"

[medatswhoP]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

that girl in red:  "Come on Zadorov, get off the bus" "time to shovel more chit for these flames fans"!

fixed it for you.

[jjgallow]

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/31/darryl-sutter-might-have-been-right-about-the-calgary-flames-all-along/

 

I'm not really interested in starting a war, nor am I saying that it was wrong to fire Sutter.   Getting fired is part of being an NHL coach, even the best ones.   

 

But....a lot of vindication happening right now as we get closer to the root of our issues.

[The_People1]

21 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/31/darryl-sutter-might-have-been-right-about-the-calgary-flames-all-along/

 

I'm not really interested in starting a war, nor am I saying that it was wrong to fire Sutter.   Getting fired is part of being an NHL coach, even the best ones.   

 

But....a lot of vindication happening right now as we get closer to the root of our issues.

 

Sutter never had much talent to work with.  Huska has even less to work with but is asked to do better.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/31/darryl-sutter-might-have-been-right-about-the-calgary-flames-all-along/

 

I'm not really interested in starting a war, nor am I saying that it was wrong to fire Sutter.   Getting fired is part of being an NHL coach, even the best ones.   

 

But....a lot of vindication happening right now as we get closer to the root of our issues.

 

Please.  When you start linking that "analysis" site, I really wonder.  About as deep research as the average X poster.  Of course the players have a part of the blame no doubt, but to say that talent is the issue does not take into account the success of other teams with similar talent.  The noted change from last year was the D-zone coverage.  Not working so far.  Otherwise we are seeing the same style we saw last year.

 

I personally think this is the wrong roster for that type of style.  Is that still on the players?

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Please.  When you start linking that "analysis" site, I really wonder.  About as deep research as the average X poster.  Of course the players have a part of the blame no doubt, but to say that talent is the issue does not take into account the success of other teams with similar talent.  The noted change from last year was the D-zone coverage.  Not working so far.  Otherwise we are seeing the same style we saw last year.

 

I personally think this is the wrong roster for that type of style.  Is that still on the players?

 

Nothing will ever be on these players.

 

Not even shirts.

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Nothing will ever be on these players.

 

Not even shirts.

 

My response to you was not based on your opinion, it was trashing trash.  I have read dozens of their "articles" and they are no more informed than Francis.  Other may not see it, but I tend to dismiss most of their conclusions in articles.

 

I suspect you will see at least a player moved because of issues.  Might not be the one you think is the problem, but is a problem no less.  Others have alluded to a culture problem that we never seemed to fix.  Guys that might have been a problem have moved on.  Bouma, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamilton, etc.  May have been a problem.  We still have a core of guys that have been here a long time.  Guys that might look like they are trying, but don't give the extra 10% needed to win.  I would say that there are some that are frustrated with that attitude.  Hey, I am giving 100%, but you seem to give up on plays.  I block a 100 mph slapper and you bail on hits.  

[jjgallow]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

My response to you was not based on your opinion, it was trashing trash.  I have read dozens of their "articles" and they are no more informed than Francis.  Other may not see it, but I tend to dismiss most of their conclusions in articles.

 

I suspect you will see at least a player moved because of issues.  Might not be the one you think is the problem, but is a problem no less.  Others have alluded to a culture problem that we never seemed to fix.  Guys that might have been a problem have moved on.  Bouma, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamilton, etc.  May have been a problem.  We still have a core of guys that have been here a long time.  Guys that might look like they are trying, but don't give the extra 10% needed to win.  I would say that there are some that are frustrated with that attitude.  Hey, I am giving 100%, but you seem to give up on plays.  I block a 100 mph slapper and you bail on hits.  

 

I am Francis.

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I am Francis.

Oksy Richard

[conundrumed]

[cross16]

I don't' see any vindication. I think that Sutter was wrong about certain individuals on the team, but I don't think he was wrong about the type of game they were trying to play, nor do I think that is why he got fired. He got fired because he turned into someone who no org would employ. If you are looking for Sutter to be vindicated I think you missed the original issues. 

 

Not to mention the success of firing a coach in order to improve as a team rests far more on who you hire, more so than who you fire. 

[conundrumed]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't' see any vindication. I think that Sutter was wrong about certain individuals on the team, but I don't think he was wrong about the type of game they were trying to play, nor do I think that is why he got fired. He got fired because he turned into someone who no org would employ. If you are looking for Sutter to be vindicated I think you missed the original issues. 

 

Not to mention the success of firing a coach in order to improve as a team rests far more on who you hire, more so than who you fire. 

Just a dead issue for the talking heads to talk their pointless drivel. Folks in these parts where I live seem to love "Overdrive", speaking of pointless diatribe...solidifying my Wings love in this region.

[kehatch]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:23 PM, cross16 said:

I don't' see any vindication. I think that Sutter was wrong about certain individuals on the team, but I don't think he was wrong about the type of game they were trying to play, nor do I think that is why he got fired. He got fired because he turned into someone who no org would employ. If you are looking for Sutter to be vindicated I think you missed the original issues. 

 

Not to mention the success of firing a coach in order to improve as a team rests far more on who you hire, more so than who you fire. 

 

I agree that he was fired because of his antics and how he treated the players. But I also think that if the Flames made the playoffs and looked good in the playoffs he doesn't get fired. 

 

Regardless of the hypotheticals, there is some vindication. A lot of people thought this team would be successful under a new coach and so far that isn't true. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I think it's hilarious that folks are connecting Darryl to Edmonton.

 

He signed an extension last fall. He's still under contract with the Flames. Murray Edwards isn't going to let him save the day in Edmonton.