Daryl Sutter and Flames

[The_Tribal Chief]

Well after reading what Huby said on sutter he seemed to blame alot on sutter at how sutter was trying to get him to play

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

Well after reading what Huby said on sutter he seemed to blame alot on sutter at how sutter was trying to get him to play

 

Where can we read this?

[The_Tribal Chief]

was on sportnet website

they interviewed him

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/huberdeau-says-sutter-didnt-put-flames-players-in-a-position-to-succeed/

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

theres the link to the article

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

was on sportnet website

they interviewed him

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/huberdeau-says-sutter-didnt-put-flames-players-in-a-position-to-succeed/

 

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what Huberdeau means exactly and there's no promises the next coach will make him happy.  Is there a specific spot on the PP he feels most comfortable playing?  Did he want to play with Lindholm the entire season?  He never said.  It could be as simple as Sutter forcing Huberdeau to play Defense first and that caused his offensive production to drop.

 

He needs to own up to his own play and not blame the coach.  If it was up to me, then I would cut my loses and trade him.

[The_Tribal Chief]

i think part of it was sutter forced him to play on the right and he is alot more familiar with the left i think it is or the other way around

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what Huberdeau means exactly and there's no promises the next coach will make him happy.  Is there a specific spot on the PP he feels most comfortable playing?  Did he want to play with Lindholm the entire season?  He never said.  It could be as simple as Sutter forcing Huberdeau to play Defense first and that caused his offensive production to drop.

 

He needs to own up to his own play and not blame the coach.  If it was up to me, then I would cut my loses and trade him.

 

So, Sutter changes the way he wants Huberdeau to play.

After every game we don't win Sutter says the top guys need to be better.

Then sends him back to the next game with the same instructions.

 

This all came after a decent start.  Hubey with Lindholm.  Some magic seen.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, The_Tribal Chief said:

i think part of it was sutter forced him to play on the right and he is alot more familiar with the left i think it is or the other way around

 

Trues enough but he was already ice cold when he moved over to RW.  

 

So that said, Huberdeau, Mangiapane, Dube, and Pelletier all playing LW next season?  Or does someone have to go?

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what Huberdeau means exactly and there's no promises the next coach will make him happy.  Is there a specific spot on the PP he feels most comfortable playing?  Did he want to play with Lindholm the entire season?  He never said.  It could be as simple as Sutter forcing Huberdeau to play Defense first and that caused his offensive production to drop.

 

He needs to own up to his own play and not blame the coach.  If it was up to me, then I would cut my loses and trade him.

 

Same here, but I think that's next to impossible with his contract unless they eat part of it.

 

I do think we'll see a good 20 games out of a new coach, there's always some lustre at the start.    But imho the problems in this organization run deeper.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Trues enough but he was already ice cold when he moved over to RW.  

 

So that said, Huberdeau, Mangiapane, Dube, and Pelletier all playing LW next season?  Or does someone have to go?

Dube plays a stronger game on the right.

I've been pleading for Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube since the signing and have yet to see it.

Sutter was busy gifting Toffoli every prime seat he could think up. If I were Toffoli, I'd be really happy with Sutter too.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Dube plays a stronger game on the right.

I've been pleading for Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube since the signing and have yet to see it.

Sutter was busy gifting Toffoli every prime seat he could think up. If I were Toffoli, I'd be really happy with Sutter too.

 

I would agree about Dube playing better on RW.

I would also suggest that there was a number of things Sutter never bothered with.

He believed Toffoli should only ever score every 2-3 games, even though he was top 3.

That's only acceptable if you have 3 lines doing that.

You want your top 3 players scoring one per game minimum.

Between PP time and EV, they should be.

At least that's how I view the world.

 

I think there is no reason whatsoever that you split the top C and your top LW.

None. 

The third man on the line is up for debate.

Mostly because we rarely saw Huberdeau there.

 

[cross16]

I don't have a problem with what Huberdeau said because I think he is 100% correct. I don't think Sutter did anything to help make Huberdeau be successful and he had plenty of chances. It was something I was mentioning all year. 

 

Huberdeau is one of the best players in the entire league at 3 on 3 since the NHL went to that format. He is was 6th in ice time at 3 on 3. 

Sutter took almost a minute out of his PP time from his time in Florida to last year. 

Sutter barely gave him top 6 5 on 5 ice time, let alone the ice time you'd expect of a top line player. 

and of course we've been through the line combos LW vs RW situation. 

 

Doesn't excuse the player who struggled early and I think Huberdeau would be the first to admit it. I think the early season struggles and adjustment zapped his confidence more than Sutter did but a good coach finds what he has and does whatever he can to put his players in a position to be successful. Sutter did none of that for Huberdeau last season. 

[jjgallow]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Doesn't excuse the player who struggled early and I think Huberdeau would be the first to admit it. 

 

Did something stop him from admitting it?

[tmac70]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:38 PM, Heartbreaker said:

 

I've been following your posts for years now, and for the most part, I think that they're pretty good. I am a bit bewildered by your take the last few weeks, though. What sort of consequences do you expect for the players? As best I can tell, the atmosphere around our team this year was very toxic, and they are cleaning house. I am curious, what did you see this past season from Darryl Sutter that leads you to believe that things would be better next year?

 

To be fair, here are some things that I expect would improve:

• They will likely hit fewer goal posts
• I believe that the goaltenders are better than we saw this year, and I think that they'll be closer to their career averages
• Jonathan Huberdeau will have a better season, although, I do think it's highly unlikely he'll ever reach his full offensive potential in a Darryl Sutter system

I believe that those three factors could potentially be the difference between picking 16th overall, and actually being in the playoffs. I keep hearing about the OT record, and "if they'd only won three of those games". I believe that this team demonstrated very little this season to make me think that they'd last any longer than five games in the playoffs, so I tend to look at it the other way - "if they'd only lost a few more of those games in regulation..."

 

My personal opinion is that this is one of the most frustrating years in franchise history. I believe that Darryl Sutter played a big part in that. Here are a few reasons: 

• Refusal to play young players
• Insistence on rolling four lines
• Reliance on the wrong players - with the season on the line, we deployed Nick Richie in the shootout (to be clear, this is not the reason, but this tells you what you need to know about this coach at this point in the season - either he actually believes that Nick Richie is the right player, or he's sending a big middle finger upstairs, and either way, is that the guy you want?)

On top of all that, the list of casualties under Darryl Sutter is getting longer and longer. I have a hard time believing that everyone is entitled, a whiner, or that they are weak. They obviously have faced adversity if they've made it as far as they have. There is a difference between working somewhere that the job is demanding, and working somewhere with a toxic culture. It doesn't make a person weak to not want to be a part of the latter.

 

Love.

 

So the players wanted the coach because he's an A-hole. I have and will state that some of the roster moves however DS has the ability to read a room as a coach and if you are not willing to play then he will roster who he thinks he can get the most out of the roster. So now the players are barking in the media well I didn't like the systems and it didn't benefit my skill sets. Guess what MF'ers you better step up and make a difference next year.

 

Here is my issue right now because you have the inmates running the Asylum:

1) You have no plan with the players, systems, training, goals, or expectations for next season.

2) What is their role next season that still has yet to be decided, you have no one steering the ship. Hey, at least the players will be better for next year's golf season.

3) It will be a season of passes, well they needed to learn the system, the new coach, and the youth are just learning. Mistakes flaws and everything everyone complained and BTCed about all this season will be "Well it's all-new give it time, at least the people are getting a chance, IMHO losing or average will become acceptable.

4) Everyone seems to believe you just got better, I don't see it with this roster. Trevling left this club in a mess. 

5) Does this mean the UFA's sign now, everyone is happy the witch is dead but seems to forget what he was brought in for. A hard demanding coach expects a lot. We need a more modern, younger progressive coach. We are a revolving door for coaches that NO ONE ever seems to get right and the players never seem to match. 

6) The pressure for those who wanted the change the pressure just got worse. You better step up and prove you were right. 

7) The fact that players, and agents, now use the leverage of power and can manipulate players, and organizations on players to clubs is the same abuse of authority if not more than what we just witnessed. 

8 this just solidified there is a culture problem and its in that room. IMHO what needs to happen next is a cleansing as you need to get rid of the cancer inside that locker room. This isn't solely on the coach, there are some major problems in that room as well,

 

Hey, I am fine with everyone's stance and opinion and appreciate the respect that respond. From what I got out of this Sutter got fired because he was an A-hole and the players felt they know more than their coach. Frankly, it never works, but as a fan, I will stay moderately optimistic. Lastly, the sad part of this is the players have power but no accountability, that is the issue. 

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So the players wanted the coach because he's an A-hole. I have and will state that some of the roster moves however DS has the ability to read a room as a coach and if you are not willing to play then he will roster who he thinks he can get the most out of the roster. So now the players are barking in the media well I didn't like the systems and it didn't benefit my skill sets. Guess what MF'ers you better step up and make a difference next year.

 

Here is my issue right now because you have the inmates running the Asylum:

1) You have no plan with the players, systems, training, goals, or expectations for next season.

2) What is their role next season that still has yet to be decided, you have no one steering the ship. Hey, at least the players will be better for next year's golf season.

3) It will be a season of passes, well they needed to learn the system, the new coach, and the youth are just learning. Mistakes flaws and everything everyone complained and BTCed about all this season will be "Well it's all-new give it time, at least the people are getting a chance, IMHO losing or average will become acceptable.

4) Everyone seems to believe you just got better, I don't see it with this roster. Trevling left this club in a mess. 

5) Does this mean the UFA's sign now, everyone is happy the witch is dead but seems to forget what he was brought in for. A hard demanding coach expects a lot. We need a more modern, younger progressive coach. We are a revolving door for coaches that NO ONE ever seems to get right and the players never seem to match. 

6) The pressure for those who wanted the change the pressure just got worse. You better step up and prove you were right. 

7) The fact that players, and agents, now use the leverage of power and can manipulate players, and organizations on players to clubs is the same abuse of authority if not more than what we just witnessed. 

8 this just solidified there is a culture problem and its in that room. IMHO what needs to happen next is a cleansing as you need to get rid of the cancer inside that locker room. This isn't solely on the coach, there are some major problems in that room as well,

 

Hey, I am fine with everyone's stance and opinion and appreciate the respect that respond. From what I got out of this Sutter got fired because he was an A-hole and the players felt they know more than their coach. Frankly, it never works, but as a fan, I will stay moderately optimistic. Lastly, the sad part of this is the players have power but no accountability, that is the issue. 

 

You've got my support.   Not sure what else you could possibly want

 

I don't actually care about the Sutter firing.  He's had a good run, it's part of the profession.   He's got some blame to share.    The general single-finger-pointing at the coach right now, historically, doesn't age well.

So yeah.  IMHO you're right.    On the other hand I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a clean slate at this point.

[cross16]

58 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Did something stop him from admitting it?

 

He already did

 

Quote

“It’s mental, and I completely lost my swagger this year,” Huberdeau explained. “You can just tell, you have no confidence in the way you play, it’s hard. You’re just trying to be out there and help your team win and you can’t really do it.

Quote

 

“I know it was going to be a change and an adjustment, but of course I didn’t think it was going to be this hard,” Huberdeau said. “I think I’ve just got to put that year behind me and focus on the next one. Have a good summer and come back next year and be ready.

 

“There’s a lot of stuff and I’ve got to reflect on everything, too. I’m going to take the time to do that the next couple weeks and see what’s wrong, what I have to do better. Obviously, it’s kinda frustration, too, it wasn’t easy. Offensively, didn’t really help the team, things like that. Just see what happened and then forget about this.”

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

So the players wanted the coach because he's an A-hole. I have and will state that some of the roster moves however DS has the ability to read a room as a coach and if you are not willing to play then he will roster who he thinks he can get the most out of the roster. So now the players are barking in the media well I didn't like the systems and it didn't benefit my skill sets. Guess what MF'ers you better step up and make a difference next year.

 

I know you are mad that the coach took the fall.  You seem to still believe that only the players and GM were at fault, but the coach was just a bad person and treated them poorly.

 

Once we have a new GM and coach and they define what the team looks like and how the team is going to play, then you can get back to trashing the players.  Right now seems like the wrong time to predict how good or bad they will play.  Maybe see what the team is made up of and which players come out of the AHL or in trades or UFA signings.  Maybe hold off until camp or pre-season or game 1 of next season.

 

Whatever changes Sutter made this year or whatever part of his previous cup winning strategies don't work anymore we won't really need to worry about now.  We will go in a different direction and offense should be more of a priority than trying to hold a 2-1 lead for 40 minutes.  But I am projecting.  The players need to play and the coaches need to find the best line combos and usages.  Nothing from last year really worked all that well.  

[jjgallow]

 

In any case, you have to respect the radio silence from Sutter right now.  I do love it.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

In any case, you have to respect the radio silence from Sutter right now.  I do love it.

 

It's rare for any GM or coach to speak after getting fired.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's rare for any GM or coach to speak after getting fired.

 

[cross16]

I think debate is less around Sutter and more how do you feel about players are right now. Like it or not the game has changed and players want a bigger voice, and they've gotten it. So the way I see this is the Flames can refuse to admit that or you can adapt to the game that is played around you. The Flames keeping Sutter would have been sending a message to the players that we don't value your opinion and for some they think this is the way it should be. That is fine if believe that ( I don't) but I don't think what can be debated is that philosophy runs counter to how sports have developed. 

 

I also think this whole "inmates running the asylum thing" is mostly fan speak and a myth. It rarely is actually found in sports. 

 

Food for thought too the primary reason the Bruins got rid of Cassidy last year was this exact same scenario. The players spoke out and they were going to lose multiple players if they didn't make a change. 

[cross16]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

 

to be fair, Torts is a rare breed

[cross16]

Think it's worth pointing out, this just isn't a player - coach thing. From all reports, and everything I've heard, Sutter alienated people up and down the organization. Management, trainers, coaches AND players all had not very good things to say about the atmosphere around the team last year. 

 

This wasn't just simply the players not liking their coach so the organization made a move. it went deeper than that. 

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Did something stop him from admitting it?

he admitted early in the year he had to be better.

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I know you are mad that the coach took the fall.  You seem to still believe that only the players and GM were at fault, but the coach was just a bad person and treated them poorly.

 

Once we have a new GM and coach and they define what the team looks like and how the team is going to play, then you can get back to trashing the players.  Right now seems like the wrong time to predict how good or bad they will play.  Maybe see what the team is made up of and which players come out of the AHL or in trades or UFA signings.  Maybe hold off until camp or pre-season or game 1 of next season.

 

Whatever changes Sutter made this year or whatever part of his previous cup winning strategies don't work anymore we won't really need to worry about now.  We will go in a different direction and offense should be more of a priority than trying to hold a 2-1 lead for 40 minutes.  But I am projecting.  The players need to play and the coaches need to find the best line combos and usages.  Nothing from last year really worked all that well.  

Actually, could careless everyone seems to miss the point. This was not a one-sided issue, but one person took the whole blame. So you changed the sheet smells clean and feels great but it's still the same Satoshi Nakamototy bed. You have changed nothing right now just created more issues. The sad part is there is no accountability for the Satoshi Nakamototy efforts on the ice. I hold minimal optimism you see a Boston type turn around with this club