Daryl Sutter and Flames

[LouCifer]

Is Bowness on contract still with WPG? Whether Sutter is here or not next season, I think he’d be a good add. 

[cross16]

9 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Is not the same thing occurring with Sutter now? Strange how the media fans people on this forum have ZERO issue trashing him and that's acceptable. IMHO that is a bunch of BS. So it's fine if someone is a department head but not an employee. So one year was top of the world to the bottom of the manure pile the next, it's all on the coach? It's most likely been uncomfortable for Sutter and his family but that's okay now.  Did Bowness belittle his players after the Vegas series, by saying it was an embarrassment and disgrace on how the top players played?  Was Kadri great this year, hell no, the guy was useless for the last half of the year, the CHI game was the epitome of his attitude. If Kadri is your leader in that room, that's some low-level leadership.   So based on your summary Toffoli, Lewis, Lucic, and Coleman have no value in their leadership based on their accomplishments, or is it that because their coaches don't hold a candle to Bednar and Kadri's accomplishments? As I have said multiple times, I am not defending Sutter, but if what he did was so utterly inappropriate and disgusting was is it acceptable for it to happen to him

This is all ridiculous. 
 

- No one took personal shots at Sutter and let’s Stop accusing people of attacking Sutter. You can not like his style as a coach and still respect the person. 
-I didn’t like the job he did last year and from the sounds of it there is a pretty toxic atmosphere around the flames. BS to me that players just have to suck that up or there are considered soft. 

- I never even said that was all Sutters fault. 
- I did not say you can’t listen to other leaders or players. I simply said rather jump all over Kadri maybe remember he played for a great coach so perhaps he has feedback/suggestions to make. You should be open to all feedback as a leader

 

the lengths people are going to around here right now to create controversy or just be mad is honestly ridiculous. 

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Is not the same thing occurring with Sutter now? Strange how the media fans people on this forum have ZERO issue trashing him and that's acceptable. IMHO that is a bunch of BS. So it's fine if someone is a department head but not an employee. So one year was top of the world to the bottom of the manure pile the next, it's all on the coach? It's most likely been uncomfortable for Sutter and his family but that's okay now.  Did Bowness belittle his players after the Vegas series, by saying it was an embarrassment and disgrace on how the top players played?  Was Kadri great this year, hell no, the guy was useless for the last half of the year, the CHI game was the epitome of his attitude. If Kadri is your leader in that room, that's some low-level leadership.   So based on your summary Toffoli, Lewis, Lucic, and Coleman have no value in their leadership based on their accomplishments, or is it that because their coaches don't hold a candle to Bednar and Kadri's accomplishments? As I have said multiple times, I am not defending Sutter, but if what he did was so utterly inappropriate and disgusting was is it acceptable for it to happen to him

 

I am with you on this one.

 

Unfortunately that's not going to help you lol

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

This is all ridiculous. 
 

- No one took personal shots at Sutter and let’s Stop accusing people of attacking Sutter. You can not like his style as a coach and still respect the person. 
-I didn’t like the job he did last year and from the sounds of it there is a pretty toxic atmosphere around the flames. BS to me that players just have to suck that up or there are considered soft. 

- I never even said that was all Sutters fault. 
- I did not say you can’t listen to other leaders or players. I simply said rather jump all over Kadri maybe remember he played for a great coach so perhaps he has feedback/suggestions to make. You should be open to all feedback as a leader

 

the lengths people are going to around here right now to create controversy or just be mad is honestly ridiculous. 

This is disingenuous. Nobody here is making it up. Dreger did. We're just discussing it. Whether or not we like Dreger is fairly irrelevant vs he's considered at least halfway decent. We're not driving that take, just discussing it.

The toxic atmosphere is likely several factors. But what Dreger is pinpointing is players vs Coach.

Really, it comes down to, is anyone taking responsibility to grab this Satoshi Nakamotoshow by the horns? Or do we just keep running with this swell of complaining not being addressed?

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

"A trade or I'm not coming to camp, although we have a contract" doesn't sound like a trade request.

Kadri playing for Bednar means Kadri knows something is weak. I would put all of my money on MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar and their great dmen being the difference between us and them, not Sutter vs Bednar.

Not saying this emanated from Kadri(although I'm alluding to it), but it sure didn't take a lot of viewings for me to feel pain for that signing. If only Monahan had have stayed healthy, we'd have had no use for the league's most overrated 2C telling us what's up.

ya, and I think when Benny was flailing I was saying play him with talent. He'd progress with talent. I thought Gaudreau first and then Tkachuk second. We'd have both still if the team did something different.

 

I get that Benny didn't do himself any favours, but I saw the potential and that the line mates he had he had to do it all himself. Can't put a guy with barely NHL players and expect to get diamonds. 

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

"A trade or I'm not coming to camp, although we have a contract" doesn't sound like a trade request.

Kadri playing for Bednar means Kadri knows something is weak. I would put all of my money on MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar and their great dmen being the difference between us and them, not Sutter vs Bednar.

Not saying this emanated from Kadri(although I'm alluding to it), but it sure didn't take a lot of viewings for me to feel pain for that signing. If only Monahan had have stayed healthy, we'd have had no use for the league's most overrated 2C telling us what's up.

 

If Monahan was healthy the last playoff run, then we would had a 80-point 2nd line Center.  Would've won the Cup.  (Well Markstrom still crapped the bed in the playoffs but still).

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Is Bowness on contract still with WPG? Whether Sutter is here or not next season, I think he’d be a good add. 

 

Nah, I think Bowness under achieves everywhere he goes.  His teams are always average... but this is the first time in his 20-years coaching that he actually called out the team after a playoff loss.  He's never been more frustrated.  Doesn't mean it will translate well here.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

ya, and I think when Benny was flailing I was saying play him with talent. He'd progress with talent. I thought Gaudreau first and then Tkachuk second. We'd have both still if the team did something different.

 

I get that Benny didn't do himself any favours, but I saw the potential and that the line mates he had he had to do it all himself. Can't put a guy with barely NHL players and expect to get diamonds. 

 

Ya I thought both Bennett and Jankowski flashed potential with Gaudreau at various points but the team always moved Monahan back with Gaudreau.  Had the Flames kept developing one of Bennett or Jankowski with Gaudreau then I think they could've become key pieces for us right now.

 

And also, Monahan's body broke.  No one could've foreseen that.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Kadri playing for Bednar means Kadri knows something is weak. I would put all of my money on MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar and their great dmen being the difference between us and them, not Sutter vs Bednar.

 

Maybe Makar wants to play in his hometown Calgary after his current deal with the Avs is done.  Let's hope.

 

In the meantime, let's trade for Nichuskin.  He's on sale right now.  Maybe can be had for Coleman.  Even if we have to suspend Nichuskin for one year, no problem.  Think long term.  Kadri-Nichuskin will be fire.

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

"A trade or I'm not coming to camp, although we have a contract" doesn't sound like a trade request.

Kadri playing for Bednar means Kadri knows something is weak. I would put all of my money on MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar and their great dmen being the difference between us and them, not Sutter vs Bednar.

Not saying this emanated from Kadri(although I'm alluding to it), but it sure didn't take a lot of viewings for me to feel pain for that signing. If only Monahan had have stayed healthy, we'd have had no use for the league's most overrated 2C telling us what's up.

 

Yup.

 

This isn't Kadri's first time having a temper tantrum and there was a reason he was expendable to Colorado.

 

Not saying Sutter gets away scott free, but not really seeing why anyone should listen to the loudest, most obnoxious complainer.     

 

Wanna formulate a justification for firing Sutter:  Don't start with Kadri.  He should have been shipped off the moment he started barking.     Instead, listen to guys like Backlund.  Who have given their whole career to this city, have far better character, and, according to rumours, are also unhappy right now.   Talk to that guy.

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

If Monahan was healthy the last playoff run, then we would had a 80-point 2nd line Center.  Would've won the Cup.  (Well Markstrom still crapped the bed in the playoffs but still).

that is assuming he'd have 80 points. But a 60+ point 2nd line center is still nice to have and ideal.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

This is disingenuous. Nobody here is making it up. Dreger did. We're just discussing it. Whether or not we like Dreger is fairly irrelevant vs he's considered at least halfway decent. We're not driving that take, just discussing it.

The toxic atmosphere is likely several factors. But what Dreger is pinpointing is players vs Coach.

Really, it comes down to, is anyone taking responsibility to grab this Satoshi Nakamotoshow by the horns? Or do we just keep running with this swell of complaining not being addressed?

the fact anyone would actually think players wouldn’t come to camp because the coach is here is ridiculous. That’s inventing controversy that doesn’t exist. 

anyway I’m out. Discuss away

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nah, I think Bowness under achieves everywhere he goes.  His teams are always average... but this is the first time in his 20-years coaching that he actually called out the team after a playoff loss.  He's never been more frustrated.  Doesn't mean it will translate well here.

He's also said that his comments were mostly reactionary of the moment. He has somewhat backpedeled and said he didnt choose his words properly but didnt change his view of the performance.

 

He's signed for 2 more seasons and a team wouldnt let a coach go mid-contract, would they?  

[The_People1]

55 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

He's also said that his comments were mostly reactionary of the moment. He has somewhat backpedeled and said he didnt choose his words properly but didnt change his view of the performance.

 

He's signed for 2 more seasons and a team wouldnt let a coach go mid-contract, would they?  

 

Bowness put the blame on his best players saying they had no push back.  Yet, Wheeler, PLD, Connor, Pionk, and Lowry produced point-per-game basically.  Scheifele was a lone disappointment.  Or was it the defensive side of the game?  No compete defensively?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Bowness put the blame on his best players saying they had no push back.  Yet, Wheeler, PLD, Connor, Pionk, and Lowry produced point-per-game basically.  Scheifele was a lone disappointment.  Or was it the defensive side of the game?  No compete defensively?

Watching the games it did seem that for the majority there diid seem to be some disengagement on the Jets side. It was very noticable in the last game where you would thing the intensity would be at 100.

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Watching the games it did seem that for the majority there diid seem to be some disengagement on the Jets side. It was very noticable in the last game where you would thing the intensity would be at 100.

it is probably one where some players aren't back or don't want to be there. I think it's been like that for months. 
 

is it the coach or other circumstances or both?

[DirtyDeeds]

I did not see or read the Dreger take.

 

I did read this article however.

Multiple Flames Players Will Leave if Sutter Returns [Report] (thehockeywriters.com)

 

Hockey Writers used to be a great source but this season most of the articles I read from them just use some other reporters quotes to piece together some controversial theory to incite a response.

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

the fact anyone would actually think players wouldn’t come to camp because the coach is here is ridiculous. That’s inventing controversy that doesn’t exist. 

anyway I’m out. Discuss away

 

Oh I agree. Somebody ran their mouth off about it to the annoying media that loves to pile on the negativity.

That's what I meant in my initial comment of empty threat. It's a stupid thing to say, be a professional.

Unfortunately I'm stuck on whether to believe it due to one player specifically. Unfortunately, I can see that being said.

I agree with you. The story didn't imply a trade request but a refusal to play under contract.

Again, it's idiotic and I'm hardly defending it or thinking that it's a remote possibility.

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oh I agree. Somebody ran their mouth off about it to the annoying media that loves to pile on the negativity.

That's what I meant in my initial comment of empty threat. It's a stupid thing to say, be a professional.

Unfortunately I'm stuck on whether to believe it due to one player specifically. Unfortunately, I can see that being said.

I agree with you. The story didn't imply a trade request but a refusal to play under contract.

Again, it's idiotic and I'm hardly defending it or thinking that it's a remote possibility.

 

Even if Huberdeau or Kadri requests a trade this summer, it's unlikely anyone wants their contract.  If it was one of them who said they would refuse to play, then they are going to be sitting out for 2 years, or until Sutter is fired.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I did not see or read the Dreger take.

 

I did read this article however.

Multiple Flames Players Will Leave if Sutter Returns [Report] (thehockeywriters.com)

 

Hockey Writers used to be a great source but this season most of the articles I read from them just use some other reporters quotes to piece together some controversial theory to incite a response.

At 56:45 in this clip. Vancouver blog show akin to Boomer & Warrener.

https://www.sekeresandprice.com/april-26-2023-darren-dreger-jim-mullin/

 

I am in complete agreement re THW, total hacks. I was more hoping to shoot down the source.

I had tracked this before tmac brought it up. Instantly thought of Kadri whether or not that is fair.

But yeah. And it's equally important to hold the wonderful hockey reporters accountable for the Satoshi Nakamoto they spout off.

I do love the, "thought there was going to be change" line.lol

Yeah, last offseason was astronomical change.

I'm all for turning all of this negative crap around.

The owner sucks, Sutter sucks, the new guys suck, everybody sucks. I get it.

But nothing sucks like being mired in negativity. Nothing is ever as bad as it appears, we just pretend it is.

[conundrumed]

45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Even if Huberdeau or Kadri requests a trade this summer, it's unlikely anyone wants their contract.  If it was one of them who said they would refuse to play, then they are going to be sitting out for 2 years, or until Sutter is fired.

I just don't see it. My own opinion is Kadri was blowing off steam and talking angry faster than thinking in reflection. It happens. Reporters love a rant.

Have a good summer, let it go, come back ready.

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

At 56:45 in this clip. Vancouver blog show akin to Boomer & Warrener.

https://www.sekeresandprice.com/april-26-2023-darren-dreger-jim-mullin/

 

I am in complete agreement re THW, total hacks. I was more hoping to shoot down the source.

I had tracked this before tmac brought it up. Instantly thought of Kadri whether or not that is fair.

But yeah. And it's equally important to hold the wonderful hockey reporters accountable for the Satoshi Nakamoto they spout off.

I do love the, "thought there was going to be change" line.lol

Yeah, last offseason was astronomical change.

I'm all for turning all of this negative crap around.

The owner sucks, Sutter sucks, the new guys suck, everybody sucks. I get it.

But nothing sucks like being mired in negativity. Nothing is ever as bad as it appears, we just pretend it is.

I dunno how reputable the source is but apparently Edwards wants to sell:

 

https://insidetherink.com/report-the-flames-owner-is-done-and-wants-out/

 

haven't seen anything else on possibility to sell so it is probably fake news?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I dunno how reputable the source is but apparently Edwards wants to sell:

 

https://insidetherink.com/report-the-flames-owner-is-done-and-wants-out/

 

haven't seen anything else on possibility to sell so it is probably fake news?

I dunno if it means anything but do any of the locals know the credibility of this Jake Hughes that apparently has an inside track over the more mainstream sources?

 

Also the website itself was broken and set off a bunch of my browsers anti trackers.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dunno if it means anything but do any of the locals know the credibility of this Jake Hughes that apparently has an inside track over the more mainstream sources?

 

Also the website itself was broken and set off a bunch of my browsers anti trackers.

ohhhhh!!! Sorry for posting that then. It was on my Google news feed.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

37 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

ohhhhh!!! Sorry for posting that then. It was on my Google news feed.

No worries. It just woke up the anti trackers, nothing malicious. I see alot worse when I gotta stream games from some of those dodgy sites.