2022 Offseason

[MP5029]

23 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's exactly the thing.  We want to get better and keep building but Gaudreau and Tkachuk's new deals dictate we have to make a sacrifice somewhere.  Where would you make this cap sacrifice if it doesn't come from Monahan?

Well I’d suggest Backlund and Dube to start…maybe Lucic too.

 

Monahan the only option is buys out but it really doesn’t help anything with 3 mil on the books for the next 2 years, it’s far better to keep him and maybe make a trade move later if he doesn’t gel with any lines…but I think he will, it may be a simple matter of adding a LW to the 2nd line…

 

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tachuck 

 

???Pelltier/Monahan/Toffoil 

 

Manji/????/Coleman 

 

???/???/????

 

i think the real problem would be the 4 line and the 3rd line Ctr…maybe Pelletier can fill the LW 2nd or the 3rd line Ctr 

 

just can’t see how you fill the 3rd line Ctr if

you buyout Monahan and sign both Gaudrau and chuck…Hence Backlund makes the most sense…and Lucic and maybe even Dube if need be, though I don’t think Dube needs to be moved as much as Backlund and Lucic 

 

 

[sak22]

I don't think we can swing a big trade without using next years first and I don't think we are getting anything without either sending a quality current piece or a lot of futures, I think a major trade will include 2 of either 2023 1st, Wolf, Pelletier or Coronato.  Personally I'd rather look into clearing cap space and making a run at Trochek in free agency, won't be easy but I like the long term options of signing him this year instead of giving up a lot of assets for potentially 1 year of Miller or 2 of Scheifele.  Trochek isn't as good as the others but it would still be a great upgrade.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Hey TD, you all know I love Toff and was ecstatic when we acquired him. There's no love lost on my account. But as you identified we are Wing-Heavy and we need that 2C to balance our lines. As I said in my post, C > Wing and we need to acquire that 2C badly. As much as I'd like Toff to stay a flame, he's on the table for me if it helps us acquire a 2C. In my suggestion above, I feel like Toff would be viewed as very attractive to VAN in a JT Miller trade, and he's $1M less salary plus has an extra year on his contract. However, if VAN is more interested in Dube for the C position, salary, contract, age, and BC-association, imagine Toff playing with JT... wowza

 

I have no idea what VAN is thinking now.  I suspect they want a re-tool again.  So, it's JT for a 1st ++.  Same with Boesser but for less.  That's what I am thinking.  They need a JT but want to pay less for a JT. 

 

I have no doubt that one of our biggest needs is a 2C.  That's no slight to Backlund.  We need that scary 2nd scoring line.  I always though Toffoli could be part of it, but we don't have a Carter.  As such, he's misused. 

 

The 2nd biggest need is a #1D.  Maybe Ras gets there.  Hanifin is what he is.  Kylington has a bit more to give on offense and really needs to clean up other areas, but he's relatively cheap.  And probably less value in a trade.  

[robrob74]

Do we need to get players with better wheels or did not playing our game slow us down? We know they tried and that was good to see, just their efforts were in other aspects of the game. They’ve looked tough to play against  throughout the season. Was it the speed that killed us or our structure?

 

so In that sense, so we need more speed or more playmakers. 
 

i know cross didn’t mind Toffoli but he did also say we needed a playmaker. 
 

i loved Jarnkrok, but somehow, like Toffoli, couldn’t get into good scoring positions. I’d like him for a 3rd/4th line option. 

[travel_dude]

I think if we are targeting a C, we should be thinking young.  Necas has been slotted to wing, but I think he would be a decent buy before he explodes player.  He won't be cheap.  

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Well I’d suggest Backlund and Dube to start…maybe Lucic too.

 

Monahan the only option is buys out but it really doesn’t help anything with 3 mil on the books for the next 2 years, it’s far better to keep him and maybe make a trade move later if he doesn’t gel with any lines…but I think he will, it may be a simple matter of adding a LW to the 2nd line…

 

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tachuck 

 

???Pelltier/Monahan/Toffoil 

 

Manji/????/Coleman 

 

???/???/????

 

i think the real problem would be the 4 line and the 3rd line Ctr…maybe Pelletier can fill the LW 2nd or the 3rd line Ctr 

 

just can’t see how you fill the 3rd line Ctr if

you buyout Monahan and sign both Gaudrau and chuck…Hence Backlund makes the most sense…and Lucic and maybe even Dube if need be, though I don’t think Dube needs to be moved as much as Backlund and Lucic 

 

 

 

i get Backlund is getting older but he was our best player in the playoffs. I think and always have thought this,  if he played the way he did in the playoffs, he’d be a 60 point guy… 

 

but we would have Lindholm to shut down the opposite best players only. Which I actually think this year, tired him out in the playoffs. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Do we need to get players with better wheels or did not playing our game slow us down? We know they tried and that was good to see, just their efforts were in other aspects of the game. They’ve looked tough to play against  throughout the season. Was it the speed that killed us or our structure?

 

so In that sense, so we need more speed or more playmakers. 
 

i know cross didn’t mind Toffoli but he did also say we needed a playmaker. 
 

i loved Jarnkrok, but somehow, like Toffoli, couldn’t get into good scoring positions. I’d like him for a 3rd/4th line option. 

 

We were slow in the playoffs, but I think it was structure that let us down.  We waited a bit long to set up the Backlund line.  That left spare parts for the 3rd line.  And a 4th line that got caved in.  I think with a healthy Monahan we might have have a bit better structure with lines.  So that leads me to believe we either need to target a C or we need Rozie to be ready to play 82.  

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i get Backlund is getting older but he was our best player in the playoffs. I think and always have thought this,  if he played the way he did in the playoffs, he’d be a 60 point guy… 

 

but we would have Lindholm to shut down the opposite best players only. Which I actually think this year, tired him out in the playoffs. 

 

 

I don't know if it tired him out but I do agree the playoffs exposed the Flames lack of depth at center. Power on power favored the Oilers and the McDavid line dominated the Gaudreau line. 

 

Backs and co did a great job. Now this is McDavid and the standard can't be having 3 lines all capable of shutting him down but you need another line to fill the gap somewhere. Either another good shut down line (to free up more opportunities for offence from the top line) or a line capable of winning more matchups would have gone a long way in the series. 

 

The wingers are here I think, the centers are just lacking. 

 

 

[LouCifer]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I think if we are targeting a C, we should be thinking young.  Necas has been slotted to wing, but I think he would be a decent buy before he explodes player.  He won't be cheap.  

 

Interesting TD. If we're thinking young, what about Norris out of Ottawa? Assuming Chucky going the other way. 

 

And on that note, there are more than a few teams that would salivate and compete for Tkachuk. Ottawa makes sense for uniting the brothers and helping ticket and jersey sales for the Tkachuk Bros. tour, but I'm sure you can make a case and a hefty return from 30 teams (he ain't goin' to EDM!) 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

Interesting TD. If we're thinking young, what about Norris out of Ottawa? Assuming Chucky going the other way. 

 

And on that note, there are more than a few teams that would salivate and compete for Tkachuk. Ottawa makes sense for uniting the brothers and helping ticket and jersey sales for the Tkachuk Bros. tour, but I'm sure you can make a case and a hefty return from 30 teams (he ain't goin' to EDM!) 

 

I just think we lose any trade with Tkachuk going the other way.

If some team wants to overpay by a wide margin then so be it.

[LouCifer]

47 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't think we can swing a big trade without using next years first and I don't think we are getting anything without either sending a quality current piece or a lot of futures, I think a major trade will include 2 of either 2023 1st, Wolf, Pelletier or Coronato.  Personally I'd rather look into clearing cap space and making a run at Trochek in free agency, won't be easy but I like the long term options of signing him this year instead of giving up a lot of assets for potentially 1 year of Miller or 2 of Scheifele.  Trochek isn't as good as the others but it would still be a great upgrade.

 

Trochek is an interesting target Sak. Especially because he wouldn't require any assets going out (allowing us to use those assets in potential other transactions). But does Trochek move the needle enough for us as a 2C? I see he's great in the FO circle, but his stats over the last 3 years are fairly comparable to Backlund's. He could fall into the right price category, but is he the right target? I don't watch his play enough to say myself, so please chime in if any of you are familiar with the player and if he'd be a good fit here. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I think the Flames need to be open to everything so I don't think the list of players they can't or shouldn't trade should be very long. Provided they get Gaudreau signed there is a real solid base here and a key move or 2 could put them right there so I don't think you close your doors to that.  The only players I'd be uncomfortable moving are:

 

Gaudreau

Tkachuk (unless the return is huge)

Lindholm (see above)

Backlund (unless another center is on his way here)

Andersson

 

Mang is really close to being in this list for me. I think they need to retain him but I also could see a scenario where you could swap him for an equal talent so it's worth considering. Would need to be a pretty attractive piece though. 

 

Everyone else I don't have fear in moving it just depends on the return. 

 

Right on.  I'm pretty much the same.  I would add Tanev to the untouchable list but given his age and injury/surgery history, I doubt we can get anything good for him anyways.  We should even target one more Tanev-type because we can't afford for him to go down to injury again moving forward.

[LouCifer]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I just think we lose any trade with Tkachuk going the other way.

If some team wants to overpay by a wide margin then so be it.

 

And see, I don't. I think for once the Flames have in Chucky an asset that would create a bidding war and buzz across the league. And, as a player that doesn't drive play himself and is commanding a salary way too high to be of value to this organization, I think it's imperative for BT to trade Chucky this offseason and set this franchise up for perennial contention by doing so. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again - Johnny and Chucky remaining Flames with the increases in their salary will cripple our chances of a cup moving forward. All it takes is taking our exact roster this year, increasing Johnny's and Chucky's salary, and telling me if we're any better next season after whoever gets sacrificed. I'll even let you assume Mony is gone. We are incapable of running back THIS season's roster next year with Johnny and Chucky in the fold. That's not a recipe for success to me. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I think the top line players are untouchable, as well as Mangiapane. 

 

We loved Mange at $2.4-mil but I wonder if we will love him at $5.5-mil.  If we can move him for a playmaking Center while keeping Toffoli, then we should consider it.

[LouCifer]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We loved Mange at $2.4-mil but I wonder if we will love him at $5.5-mil.  If we can move him for a playmaking Center while keeping Toffoli, then we should consider it.

 

Agreed. I would ONLY move Mange if it brings in that 2C we need. Losing Mange takes away one of the few players on the team that drives to the front of the net. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Well I’d suggest Backlund and Dube to start…maybe Lucic too.

 

Monahan the only option is buys out but it really doesn’t help anything with 3 mil on the books for the next 2 years, it’s far better to keep him and maybe make a trade move later if he doesn’t gel with any lines…but I think he will, it may be a simple matter of adding a LW to the 2nd line…

 

Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tachuck 

 

???Pelltier/Monahan/Toffoil 

 

Manji/????/Coleman 

 

???/???/????

 

i think the real problem would be the 4 line and the 3rd line Ctr…maybe Pelletier can fill the LW 2nd or the 3rd line Ctr 

 

just can’t see how you fill the 3rd line Ctr if

you buyout Monahan and sign both Gaudrau and chuck…Hence Backlund makes the most sense…and Lucic and maybe even Dube if need be, though I don’t think Dube needs to be moved as much as Backlund and Lucic 

 

I wouldn't move Backlund and Dube "to start" but I wouldn't be opposed to moving them.  Monahan struggled to get up to speed after a hip surgery last summer and now you think he'll be up to speed after a second one?  I mean, I wish.  Monahan is a warrior and leader and all that jazz.  Would be a nice story.  But no man.  He's a 4th liner next season... again.  Monahan + Lucic is $11.4-mil on the 4th line.  Way too much.  4th liners should be $2-mil max.

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have no idea what VAN is thinking now.  I suspect they want a re-tool again.  So, it's JT for a 1st ++.  Same with Boesser but for less.  That's what I am thinking.  They need a JT but want to pay less for a JT. 

 

I have no doubt that one of our biggest needs is a 2C.  That's no slight to Backlund.  We need that scary 2nd scoring line.  I always though Toffoli could be part of it, but we don't have a Carter.  As such, he's misused. 

 

The 2nd biggest need is a #1D.  Maybe Ras gets there.  Hanifin is what he is.  Kylington has a bit more to give on offense and really needs to clean up other areas, but he's relatively cheap.  And probably less value in a trade.  

i actually think they will go for it. If they sign Boudreaux, then they’re going for it. I think they had a better team than the results showed. Maybe not a playoff team….

 

what I want to know is, how the division could play out. Never know. Will Vegas go back to being the best? Will LA continue to rise. Anaheim showed a glimmer at times. I’ve stopped listening to Canucks radio so I dunno them as well as I used to. San Jose also gave some trouble at times but is getting a year older… a lot to think about.

[The_People1]

Just now, LouCifer said:

 

Agreed. I would ONLY move Mange if it brings in that 2C we need. Losing Mange takes away one of the few players on the team that goes to the front of the net. 

 

If I had to choose between Mangiapane at $5.5 and Toffoli at $4.25, I think i'm leaning towards Mangiapane, however, Mangiapane has trade value and should bring back a good 2nd line Center.  

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i actually think they will go for it. If they sign Boudreaux, then they’re going for it. I think they had a better team than the results showed. Maybe not a playoff team….

 

what I want to know is, how the division could play out. Never know. Will Vegas go back to being the best? Will LA continue to rise. Anaheim showed a glimmer at times. I’ve stopped listening to Canucks radio so I dunno them as well as I used to. San Jose also gave some trouble at times but is getting a year older… a lot to think about.

 

For a team that missed the playoffs, expectations are sky high in Vancouver for next season.  They are a team that believes had they made the playoffs then they could've done some damage.  Based on their record after Boudreau, ya... one of the best teams in the Conference.

 

They expect to not just make the playoffs next season but will push for the Division title.  They are not rebuilding.  All the bridges burned between Miller and Green have been repaired by Boudreau and they want to win together.  I don't believe Miller is even available because of this.

[LouCifer]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

If I had to choose between Mangiapane at $5.5 and Toffoli at $4.25, I think i'm leaning towards Mangiapane, however, Mangiapane has trade value and should bring back a good 2nd line Center.  

 

Just a hunch on my part, but I think BT gets Mange under $5M. Even if it's only $50K below that amount. BT has been dynamite in RFA negotiations and I have no reason not to expect that to continue. Side note - Mange and Andersson are very close and I assume their spouses are as well. They've played together since the Barrie Colts. I could see Mange preferring to remain in Calgary, which does lend to the idea he'll be more open to working with the team to stay. My 2 cents. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Mangiapane negotiation will be tough for the Flames. Mang finally has leverage and he will use it, as he should 

 

The Flames have been very tough on him in their past two negotiations. They made a 17 goal player take a QO for 715k. This past season he outplayed his deal at 2.4. He will want to be paid and deservedly so.

 

I would imagine he’s signing for 5-5.75, depending on term. 
 

It also wouldn’t completely shock me if he’s traded. His value will be very high and unfortunately, you can’t pay everyone 

[LouCifer]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Mangiapane negotiation will be tough for the Flames. Mang finally has leverage and he will use it, as he should 

 

The Flames have been very tough on him in their past two negotiations. They made a 17 goal player take a QO for 715k. This past season he outplayed his deal at 2.4. He will want to be paid and deservedly so.

 

I would imagine he’s signing for 5-5.75, depending on term. 
 

It also wouldn’t completely shock me if he’s traded. His value will be very high and unfortunately, you can’t pay everyone 

If it was a choice between him and Chucky, I trade Chucky all day long. Mange will be cheaper and the money saved can be used elsewhere (2C)

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

 

And see, I don't. I think for once the Flames have in Chucky an asset that would create a bidding war and buzz across the league. And, as a player that doesn't drive play himself and is commanding a salary way too high to be of value to this organization, I think it's imperative for BT to trade Chucky this offseason and set this franchise up for perennial contention by doing so. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again - Johnny and Chucky remaining Flames with the increases in their salary will cripple our chances of a cup moving forward. All it takes is taking our exact roster this year, increasing Johnny's and Chucky's salary, and telling me if we're any better next season after whoever gets sacrificed. I'll even let you assume Mony is gone. We are incapable of running back THIS season's roster next year with Johnny and Chucky in the fold. That's not a recipe for success to me. 

 

What does a bidding war look like.  Like Buffalo for Eichel?

As much as Buffalo got decent assets for years to come, they lost the trade.

They soured the player and that's what happens before or during a "bidding war".

I'm not saying you don't get a decent offer, but what of the player we lose?

Even if I criticize his play about 50% of the time, he was a 40 goal/100 point player.

What do we get that's close to that?

If it's a C, then great.

Except we have a hole at 1RW.

Moving Lindholm there doesn't fix it, just make us the same at best.

 

We have some work to do to sign the players we want, come under cap and still compete as in 21/22.
Vegas will be back.

The areas that killed us was spending 11M on Lucic and Monahan and not having the solid depth for that money.  What killed us in the playoffs was having our best defense injured.  Healthy Kyl-Tanev and we don't see the same problems.  Maybe we don't win, but we don't see as many glaring errors.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What does a bidding war look like.  Like Buffalo for Eichel?

As much as Buffalo got decent assets for years to come, they lost the trade.

They soured the player and that's what happens before or during a "bidding war".

I'm not saying you don't get a decent offer, but what of the player we lose?

Even if I criticize his play about 50% of the time, he was a 40 goal/100 point player.

What do we get that's close to that?

If it's a C, then great.

Except we have a hole at 1RW.

Moving Lindholm there doesn't fix it, just make us the same at best.

 

We have some work to do to sign the players we want, come under cap and still compete as in 21/22.
Vegas will be back.

The areas that killed us was spending 11M on Lucic and Monahan and not having the solid depth for that money.  What killed us in the playoffs was having our best defense injured.  Healthy Kyl-Tanev and we don't see the same problems.  Maybe we don't win, but we don't see as many glaring errors.  

Thats too early to call as of now, up to this point I call it a wash.  JEs game coming back is all well and good but what Buffalo does with the freed up cap space will be a bigger factor.

 

If you sign both Johnny and Chucky there will be cap casualties. You can throw out the names of Mony, Looch and Hanifin all you want but the NMCs may prove troublesome.

 

Chucky brings you your best return and even though you may not get the return you want you probably wont get it with anyone you ship out with everyone else knowing the cap crunch the team would be in.

[LouCifer]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What does a bidding war look like.  Like Buffalo for Eichel?

As much as Buffalo got decent assets for years to come, they lost the trade.

They soured the player and that's what happens before or during a "bidding war".

I'm not saying you don't get a decent offer, but what of the player we lose?

Even if I criticize his play about 50% of the time, he was a 40 goal/100 point player.

What do we get that's close to that?

If it's a C, then great.

Except we have a hole at 1RW.

Moving Lindholm there doesn't fix it, just make us the same at best.

 

We have some work to do to sign the players we want, come under cap and still compete as in 21/22.
Vegas will be back.

The areas that killed us was spending 11M on Lucic and Monahan and not having the solid depth for that money.  What killed us in the playoffs was having our best defense injured.  Healthy Kyl-Tanev and we don't see the same problems.  Maybe we don't win, but we don't see as many glaring errors.  

 

Buffalo messed that up when the season started and he wasn't traded. Chucky must go during the summer when every team has cap space to compete with each other. And anything I post here assumes Mony is not on our roster next season. 

 

Move Toff up to 1RW.

Inquire with Rakell (RW)

Mange partners with the new 2C 

Backs and Coleman stay as a pair on line 3

Bring Jarnkrok back 

Lewis - Ruzicka - Looch for line 4 (yes, I assume Looch is still in the fold and it works with Chucky out)