2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, MP5029 said:

that’s the point…1. We were a better team with him than without him, regardless of what line he played, he was on 3rd line mostly, but was pushed to the 4th line sometimes, probably to grove the 4th line a boat by what I seen.

 

buy out makes no sense. 
 

he’s a high risk player yes because of injuries so trades make no sense as the return would be low

 

He is signed for 2 more years

 

we lack Ctrs, especially for PP and FO’s

 

i just don’t see Monahan going anywhere, the only thing that makes sense is to keep him, he may re-bound and I believe he will he was far too good to have fallen this badly without a reason for it, turns out it’s his other hip…I think he will be much better this year.

 

at the end of the day, the team was better with him than without him, if he gets healed up, he’s gonna be much better and we are gonna be happy to have the issues of to sign both Monahan and Lindholm…

 

That's exactly the thing.  We want to get better and keep building but Gaudreau and Tkachuk's new deals dictate we have to make a sacrifice somewhere.  Where would you make this cap sacrifice if it doesn't come from Monahan?

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't disagree that it could be the only option for the Flames, I just don't see a situation where nobody else wants him and he comes crawling back, real world if you are let go and offered the same role a few months later at a significant paycut, only the real desperate.  I think with Stone it was purely location, I don't think we should anticipate being able to do it all the time.

 

Well if we buy him out doesn't he get all his money upfront?  Then they do a *wink wink nudge nudge* and he's back at $1-mil cap hit next season.  Benefits both parties.  He won't be playing at a paycut because he already got paid.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I'm not really sure why WPG trades a C for a winger.

Maybe it makes sense for targeting a player like Tkachuk?

But who do they have left for C?

PLD is all they have left.

Statsny is getting up there.

Wheeler is aging out.

Copp is gone.

Perfetti is a ways away.

 

If they trade Sheifele, then they need to do the same with Wheeler.

Not even for the same reason.

 

WPG has lost so many players over the last few years.

A lot of it because they PO players in some way.

Trouba, Laine, Big Buff, etc.

No idea which direction they are going.

 

 

Operating under the assumption Scheifele wants out and the Jets want to go in a new direction.  Sure they may want a Center back but they won't get a bigger name back for Scheifele than Tkachuk.  

 

Perfetti is only 20 so he's probably too young to make a huge impact right away but they can lock up PLD and Tkachuk both 24-years-old for 8-years.  Add in Perfetti and that's a decent trio to build around for the next 8 years.

 

Lots of assumptions here of course and for all we know, Scheifele is very happy in WPG again and they don't shop him.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

No one is going to take Wheelers contract without heavy compensation.

 

Trouba eventually drank from the same well as Adam Fox.  Not much the Jets could do about that.

Laine thought he should be gifted prime ice time and still has a more than questionable work ethic.

Roslovic was a mix of Trouba issues and Laine issues.

I think Buff was just done with it all, realized he was happier fishing than playing hockey. 

 

Personally I was shocked they extended Chevy instead of just firing him. He's known to not be trigger happy when it comes to trades and signings so there will be moves made but I think they want to fill the coaches chair first.

 

Thanks for the view from the other side.

I get all the issues and the common thread is Chevy, and a little bit of Paul.

One is gone.

Chevy is too smart a dealer that he would take us to the woodshed.

 

He's an odd thought, and it doesn't relate to WPG.

Tkachuk for Laine.

We have to know Laine's intent before considering.

We get a player that could probably score 40+ with Gaudreau on any season.

He might actually be a factor in a playoff series.

They get a player with a a mix of grit, scoring and defense.

 

The new deal is as troublesome as dealing with Tkachuk.

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

No one is going to take Wheelers contract without heavy compensation.

 

Trouba eventually drank from the same well as Adam Fox.  Not much the Jets could do about that.

Laine thought he should be gifted prime ice time and still has a more than questionable work ethic.

Roslovic was a mix of Trouba issues and Laine issues.

I think Buff was just done with it all, realized he was happier fishing than playing hockey. 

 

Personally I was shocked they extended Chevy instead of just firing him. He's known to not be trigger happy when it comes to trades and signings so there will be moves made but I think they want to fill the coaches chair first.

 

Do you see the Jets trading Scheifele for Tkachuk?   Is this possible or the Jets would want something else?

[The_People1]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

  Lucic suffered this season and finished with a AC sprain.    

 

Is there a list of all the injuries we had from the playoffs?

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well if we buy him out doesn't he get all his money upfront?  Then they do a *wink wink nudge nudge* and he's back at $1-mil cap hit next season.  Benefits both parties.  He won't be playing at a paycut because he already got paid.

 

 

That is 100% cap circumvention. 

[sak22]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well if we buy him out doesn't he get all his money upfront?  Then they do a *wink wink nudge nudge* and he's back at $1-mil cap hit next season.  Benefits both parties.  He won't be playing at a paycut because he already got paid.

No because he's still out a million.  Don't know if I'd go for a wink wink nudge nudge, I think it would be more of a FU from the Monahan camp.  Again the guy isn't married to Gaudreau or the Flames or the city, he will look for other opportunities and as a guy who is still only 28 years old with 200 goals scored who can win over 50% of faceoffs, he will get another opportunity.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is there a list of all the injuries we had from the playoffs?

Matthew Tkachuk: “Banged up” hand
Andrew Mangiapane: Wrist
Milan Lucic: AC sprain
Chris Tanev: Torn labrum, separated shoulder, sprained neck
Oliver Kylington: Shoulder
Nikita Zadorov: Two or three fractured ribs depending on who you ask

 

Can't really remember the incident that Bread banged up his wrist.  He was targeted in the 2nd round a lot.  Zaddy crashed the net after being tripped on a breakaway against Dallas, yet he lead the team in hits against EDM.  Kylington may have been against Dallas or EDM.  Lucic had a couple of nasty hits in both series that could have caused the problem.  

[The_People1]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

 

That is 100% cap circumvention. 

 

I am suggesting exactly that we circumvent the cap... But "legally" though.  We did it with Stone for example.

 

Depends if Monahan gets any offers after his buyout.  He can say he didn't get any so he took the Flames $1-mil offer.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I am suggesting exactly that we circumvent the cap... But "legally" though.  We did it with Stone for example.

 

Depends if Monahan gets any offers after his buyout.  He can say he didn't get any so he took the Flames $1-mil offer.

 

That's a lot of things having to fall into place to make that happen. Feels highly unlikely the NHL would approve that. NHLPA would probably have something to say too. 

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

The new deal is as troublesome as dealing with Tkachuk.

 

The more I think about it, Tkachuk should take the 1-year qualifying offer and then continue to negotiate with the Flames on an 8-year extension. Taking a 1-year extension makes him untradeable.  It's a smart move.  If he reverts back to an average season, then going UFA should still have bidders offer close to $10-mil x 7-years.  However, if he has another 40-goal season, then he could be looking at next summer's UFA prices and contracts (which usually gets increasing more expensive every year).  Maybe he can get $12-mil x 7-years because it's so rare a 40-goal scorer in his prime hits UFA.

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do you see the Jets trading Scheifele for Tkachuk?   Is this possible or the Jets would want something else?

 

I don't. Jets have Wheeler, Connor and Ehlers all down the wings and Perfetti coming. I'm not sure i'm seeing the benefit for Winnipeg to move Schiefele for Tkachuk and take on more money on the cap. 

 

I think if they move him it's for younger players or a Dman. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The more I think about it, Tkachuk should take the 1-year qualifying offer and then continue to negotiate with the Flames on an 8-year extension. Taking a 1-year extension makes him untradeable.  It's a smart move.  If he reverts back to an average season, then going UFA should still have bidders offer close to $10-mil x 7-years.  However, if he has another 40-goal season, then he could be looking at next summer's UFA prices and contracts (which usually gets increasing more expensive every year).  Maybe he can get $12-mil x 7-years because it's so rare a 40-goal scorer in his prime hits UFA.

 

No matter if he signs a one year deal or is a RFA, he gets paid.

Signing a one year deal doesn't make him less tradable than a RFA.

If he goes to a new team, they sign him pretty quick.

CBJ might make him the captain.

STL would love him.

WPG, he probably gets dealt again.

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I'm not really sure why WPG trades a C for a winger.

Maybe it makes sense for targeting a player like Tkachuk?

But who do they have left for C?

PLD is all they have left.

Statsny is getting up there.

Wheeler is aging out.

Copp is gone.

Perfetti is a ways away.

 

If they trade Sheifele, then they need to do the same with Wheeler.

Not even for the same reason.

 

WPG has lost so many players over the last few years.

A lot of it because they PO players in some way.

Trouba, Laine, Big Buff, etc.

No idea which direction they are going.

 

 

Would they want a quick re-tool or a possible quick rebuild?

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Would they want a quick re-tool or a possible quick rebuild?

 

Hard to say what their plan is.

Two players don't seem to know and they are the top players.

They are both older though.

Signing PLD makes sense, but they were successful before he came along.

The direction probably depends on the coaching decision.

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Matthew Tkachuk: “Banged up” hand
Andrew Mangiapane: Wrist
Milan Lucic: AC sprain
Chris Tanev: Torn labrum, separated shoulder, sprained neck
Oliver Kylington: Shoulder
Nikita Zadorov: Two or three fractured ribs depending on who you ask

 

Can't really remember the incident that Bread banged up his wrist.  He was targeted in the 2nd round a lot.  Zaddy crashed the net after being tripped on a breakaway against Dallas, yet he lead the team in hits against EDM.  Kylington may have been against Dallas or EDM.  Lucic had a couple of nasty hits in both series that could have caused the problem.  

 

Ya, I wonder if it was in Game 2. I was so pissed in that game because Edmonton was slashing and cross-checking every player in the wrist who could score. I was getting so angry that game. It was one of those games where I just can't like the NHL for, when all of that nasty stuff goes one way and doesn't get called and then the other team has a different set of rules, getting called for protecting themselves because the refs aren't doing that. I say, call a penalty a penalty and the players know they can't do it anymore and the penalties might be high, but then the penalties will start to go down.

[cross16]

57 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's exactly the thing.  We want to get better and keep building but Gaudreau and Tkachuk's new deals dictate we have to make a sacrifice somewhere.  Where would you make this cap sacrifice if it doesn't come from Monahan?

 

This is a balancing act for sure but one thing I wish we could embrace more is the potential to get better internally. why does improvement always have to come externally and cost money?

 

Small sample size but why can't Ruzicka replace what Monahan gave them last year? Why can't he give them an affordable but good top 9 center. 

Pelletier is one of the best players in the AHL this year. That doesn't add secondary scoring that was a problem in the playoffs?

Valimaki/Kylington as options on defence. Mackey

Dube doesn't have potential to get better? Andersson?

Coleman has his first UFA season under his belt and now understand his role/team. He doesn't have room to grow next year?

 

Don't get me wrong I acknowledge the cap is going to make things tough and there are still a few key area the Flames need to improve upon to move forward. But for a team that put up over 100pts and was a few breaks/better play away from the conference finals I'm not sure going backwards should be assumed just because those 2 need new deals

 

 

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is a balancing act for sure but one thing I wish we could embrace more is the potential to get better internally. why does improvement always have to come externally and cost money?

 

Small sample size but why can't Ruzicka replace what Monahan gave them last year? Why can't he give them an affordable but good top 9 center. 

Pelletier is one of the best players in the AHL this year. That doesn't add secondary scoring that was a problem in the playoffs?

Valimaki/Kylington as options on defence. Mackey

Dube doesn't have potential to get better? Andersson?

Coleman has his first UFA season under his belt and now understand his role/team. He doesn't have room to grow next year?

 

Don't get me wrong I acknowledge the cap is going to make things tough and there are still a few key area the Flames need to improve upon to move forward. But for a team that put up over 100pts and was a few breaks/better play away from the conference finals I'm not sure going backwards should be assumed just because those 2 need new deals

 

For sures.  It's a balancing act and so to do it properly, we should cut cap where there is a replacement ready.  Ruzicka replaces Monahan at 1/6th the cap.  Done.  Goodbye Monahan.  You cannot cut Andersson for example.  There is no RHS RD to replace what he does.

 

I think on D is where we can assume we may be worse off.  Zadorov and Gudbranson were great for us, especially during the regular season.  Mackey and Valimaki are unproven (or proven to not be that good yet depending on how you want to look at it).  We are letting one or both walk away without a replacement ready.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do you see the Jets trading Scheifele for Tkachuk?   Is this possible or the Jets would want something else?

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't. Jets have Wheeler, Connor and Ehlers all down the wings and Perfetti coming. I'm not sure i'm seeing the benefit for Winnipeg to move Schiefele for Tkachuk and take on more money on the cap. 

 

I think if they move him it's for younger players or a Dman. 

The Jets would need to bring in a C if Scheifle is dealt. Stastny wont be back and no one on the farm looks ready for a top 2 position.  I can see either Scheifle or Morrisey getting moved but in all reality Wheelers contract is going to be the anchor that needs to gone.

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I think on D is where we can assume we may be worse off.  Zadorov and Gudbranson were great for us, especially during the regular season.  Mackey and Valimaki are unproven (or proven to not be that good yet depending on how you want to look at it).  We are letting one or both walk away without a replacement ready.

If you rewind to September the D was the area of concern for most.  Nobody pegged that the top pairing would record 98 points, not many figured Kylington would play the role he did for most of the season, and we were dreading having Gudbranson in the first place.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sures.  It's a balancing act and so to do it properly, we should cut cap where there is a replacement ready.  Ruzicka replaces Monahan at 1/6th the cap.  Done.  Goodbye Monahan.  You cannot cut Andersson for example.  There is no RHS RD to replace what he does.

 

I think on D is where we can assume we may be worse off.  Zadorov and Gudbranson were great for us, especially during the regular season.  Mackey and Valimaki are unproven (or proven to not be that good yet depending on how you want to look at it).  We are letting one or both walk away without a replacement ready.

 

If we were bringing back the exact same team minus Monahan and Zaddy, we are at least as sound on offense as we were last year.  We only had a partial year of Toffoli and less of Jarnkrok.  Assume that we find space for Rozie and Pelletier.  Even if you subtract Lucic, we are as potent as last year.  On defense, we lose some of the toughness in Zaddy.  The rest is a wash.  Valimaki is in no different situation Kylington was last year; he has to prove himself.  He needs to put in the effort like Kyl did to improve.  It's not all on Tanev for that change.

 

If Lucic retires, we don't really have to make any other changes.

We might want to take advantage of Kylington's season to work a trade.

We might want to move on from Monahan, since he may never get back to pre-injury levels.

We may want to move Dube for a bigger forward, since he's getting creamed on the wings.

 

Personally, I would like to keep the bottom pair at 2 or less each.

Both are still not old.

Bring up Rozie and Pelts.

Valimaki as 7th D.

Jarny as a jackknife.  

Maybe bring in a tough guy at minimum pay to play in battles.

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, sak22 said:

If you rewind to September the D was the area of concern for most.  Nobody pegged that the top pairing would record 98 points, not many figured Kylington would play the role he did for most of the season, and we were dreading having Gudbranson in the first place.

 

Ya I mean, that's the hope right?  Like, it didn't look good on paper and didn't look good in training camp.  Once the season began for real, the group of 6 came together and never looked back.

 

On paper, losing Zadorov and Gudbranson doesn't look good.  Our 3rd pairing next season is Valimaki-Stone?  Doesn't look good.  But I understand kids can make huge leaps from one year to the next.  Maybe Valimaki comes in a completely new player.

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we were bringing back the exact same team minus Monahan and Zaddy, we are at least as sound on offense as we were last year.  We only had a partial year of Toffoli and less of Jarnkrok.  Assume that we find space for Rozie and Pelletier.  Even if you subtract Lucic, we are as potent as last year.  On defense, we lose some of the toughness in Zaddy.  The rest is a wash.  Valimaki is in no different situation Kylington was last year; he has to prove himself.  He needs to put in the effort like Kyl did to improve.  It's not all on Tanev for that change.

 

If Lucic retires, we don't really have to make any other changes.

We might want to take advantage of Kylington's season to work a trade.

We might want to move on from Monahan, since he may never get back to pre-injury levels.

We may want to move Dube for a bigger forward, since he's getting creamed on the wings.

 

Personally, I would like to keep the bottom pair at 2 or less each.

Both are still not old.

Bring up Rozie and Pelts.

Valimaki as 7th D.

Jarny as a jackknife.  

Maybe bring in a tough guy at minimum pay to play in battles.

 

If Lucic retires then bringing back Ritchie seems like a logical thing to do.  He knows us and we know him.  Sutter plays him.  He scored 2-goals in the playoffs against the Oilers.  He should be had for $800k.

[The_People1]

So is Ruzicka, Pelletier, and Valimaki for sure NHLers next season?  Anyone else? 

 

Does Mackey have a chance?

Is Zary still far from ready?

Wolf could surprise at camp?

Coronato committed to one more season in College.

Pospisil?

Duehr?

Kuznetsov?

Klapka?