2022 Offseason

[Thebrewcrew]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes I think there's one team that gets you to the playoffs and then there's the other team to go all the way... Players like Johnny get us into the playoffs.  After that, we need a good bottom 6 to get us the rest of the way.  Top line was shut down against EDM and the bottom 6 didn't step up... Well Ritchie scored 2 and then we benched him the rest of the way...

 

I don't mind Ritchie back.  He's a minimum wager with a specialty.  I know many are not a fan of his.

I would be fine with Ritchie back, but he's not an every day player for me. As a 13th forward, he's a good fit, play when the team needs a jolt. 

 

If Sutter has his say, Lewis and Ritchie will be back. 

 

I think regression is inevitable next season from the Flames top players. You can help offset that by having more productive bottom 6 players. It would be hard to convince me that Pelletier and Phillips wouldn't massively outproduce Lewis and Ritchie. I'd love a Pelletier-Ruzicka-Phillips line in the bottom six.

[The_People1]

35 minutes ago, flames for life said:

Totally agree.  Backlund’s best value is third line defensive forward, who can mentor younger players into the nhl game.

 

Pelletier - Backlund - Coleman third line sounds pretty good to me.  Great spot for Pelletier to learn and grow.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I would be fine with Ritchie back, but he's not an every day player for me. As a 13th forward, he's a good fit, play when the team needs a jolt. 

 

If Sutter has his say, Lewis and Ritchie will be back. 

 

I think regression is inevitable next season from the Flames top players. You can help offset that by having more productive bottom 6 players. It would be hard to convince me that Pelletier and Phillips wouldn't massively outproduce Lewis and Ritchie. I'd love a Pelletier-Ruzicka-Phillips line in the bottom six.

 

Doubt Phillips makes it to the NHL.  He so small and he's already 24-years-old.  Ruzicka should be good next season.

 

I'm torn on Lewis.  He's such a dependable player but for 10-minutes a night only because of age.  I dont mind him back but prefer to give that roster spot to a kid and grow with them.

[Thebrewcrew]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Doubt Phillips makes it to the NHL.  He so small and he's already 24-years-old.  Ruzicka should be good next season.

 

I'm torn on Lewis.  He's such a dependable player but for 10-minutes a night only because of age.  I dont mind him back but prefer to give that roster spot to a kid and grow with them.

Hard to say with Phillips. He would have seen NHL action this year if the team wasn't so healthy this past season. He's done everything you could ask out of a drafted player, so would be nice to see him get a chance. If the Flames don't believe he can play, I hope they don't qualify him, so he can go get a chance elsewhere. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

you wouldn't move Mangiapane in a trade for , lets say Barzal?  not saying we shop him just that if we need that significant add he could be part of the Bait ..same with Dube 

 

I'd love to stay the same .. but the money isnt there to stay the same 

 

Barzal is also #13.  Can't happen LOL

In the crazy example of Barzal for Mange, why of course you look at it.

But, let's remember that Mange also score a crap load more than Barzal.

But who's counting.

You want to maximize any asset you have.

If Barzal is a #1C and can distribute the puck, then yes it makes sense.

If he costs you $9m, then not so much.

That's 2 Mangiapane's.

Or 1.75 of him.

 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, flames for life said:

I actually think we haven’t seen all that Dube has to offer; and Mangie has stayed true to his history.  Since his time in the Ahl, Mangie has shown consistent improvement every season.  I would not be surprised to see 40 goals and 70-80 points next year.  That second line was impactful in both series.  Backlund had to step up to allow his wingers to do what they do.

 

I'm not saying Dube is a bust or has reached his end.

But on a team with 2 smaller wingers already, it becomes difficult to do more than he did.

Him and Mange played similar minutes, but Mange got it done.

Maybe Dube is just a C and we didn't use him right.

On the wings pn entries he got crushed.

Mangiapane got crushed on the boards more than on entries.

Who knows if it's playing or not playing with Backlund.

I rarely saw Bread taken out of a play for longer than a second.

 

I suspect Rozie has first crack at C over Dube.

Fair or unfair, he is what Sutter wants.

Sutter just wasn't 100% happy with him.

He had to steal a job in the top 9 to stick.

If we had earlier injuries, he would have.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Doubt Phillips makes it to the NHL.  He so small and he's already 24-years-old.  Ruzicka should be good next season.

 

I'm torn on Lewis.  He's such a dependable player but for 10-minutes a night only because of age.  I dont mind him back but prefer to give that roster spot to a kid and grow with them.

 

Same on Phillips.  As much as I think he could be as good as Yamamoto, we don't need Yam.

You can play a guy like him if you have no other small players.

Johnny and Bread.  Dube isn't super small but seems that way in battles.

 

Lewis - gotta love the compete level.  Sutter wanted him because of his NHL and playoff experience.  But we are moving to younger players and can't just keep doing it forever.  In fact, the young guys are starting to get the experience.  Ritchie was a fringe player that we kept in, regardless if the fit.  Big body and not useless.  4th liner on an average team. 14F on a better one.  We can probably do another year with Lewis.  He doesn't need to be in every game.  Unless he's that good.

 

Ruzie and Pelletier are my first two choices, since I have no idea what we do with the D.  I would use those two with Toffoli.  3 decent shots, two guys that can pass.  Skill 3rd line.  That puts the Bread line together.  And we either have to maintain the top line or bing in a RW sniper.

 

Think for a minute a top PP with Gaudreau, Lindholm and Laine.  Or a scoring line of the same three.

We lose some grit and maybe some passing, but have a bigger weapon.

Maybe the fit isn't with Sutter though.

Would be tough trade.

 

 

[420since1974]

Trade Clause Issues

These 4 players all have NTCs which list only 10 teams that they can be traded to.

 

Backlund (2 x $5.35M) - I strongly feel that his skill set and experience cannot be replaced at a lower cost.

Coleman (5 x $4.9M) - Trading him after only one year would certainly dissuade UFAs from signing with Calgary in the future.

Lucic (1 x $5.25M) - A team may take him off the Flames hands AFTER he's been paid his $3M signing bonus. They would only have to pay him $1M. Whether that particular team is on Lucic's list is another question.

Monahan (1 x $6.375M) - Even if he has a full recovery, that can’t really be proven until he hits the ice against NHL competition, so I highly doubt that a trade could be made prior to the season’s start.

 

 

[robrob74]

I don’t think we lacked scoring wingers. 
 

we lacked in playmakers. 
 

Mangiapane, Tkachuk (can score), Dube (lacks playmaker/hockey smart line mates)

[420since1974]

The Flames will need more Cap Space to sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

 

1. Mangiapane is a RFA with Arbitration Rights. He will likely double his previous $2.425M salary. I'd suggest signing and immediately trading him. Move Dube up into his spot and replace Dube on the 3rd line with Pelletier. That would save $1.56M.

2. I think that Zadorov will not be re-signed, $3.75M is just too rich for 3rd pairing muscle. Valimaki or Mackey will just have to step up their games. That would save at least $2.2M.

3. Try to replace Lucic by trading (picks or prospects) for Ryan Reaves  ($1.75M) or signing UFA Nicolas Deslauriers (1M). At least $3.5M in savings.

 

Total saved = $7.26M

That would be a total of 34.19M to sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk, plus fill out the other 8 roster spots.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hard to say with Phillips. He would have seen NHL action this year if the team wasn't so healthy this past season. He's done everything you could ask out of a drafted player, so would be nice to see him get a chance. If the Flames don't believe he can play, I hope they don't qualify him, so he can go get a chance elsewhere. 

 

I think Phillips is someone to watch at training camp but we need to see NHL strength.  He is 5'-7" and unlike Johnny, he gets pushed down easily.

 

Moreover, we know Sutter likes a big tough bottom 6.  Phillips just doesn't fit this description.

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

The Flames will need more Cap Space to sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

 

1. Mangiapane is a RFA with Arbitration Rights. He will likely double his previous $2.425M salary. I'd suggest signing and immediately trading him. Move Dube up into his spot and replace Dube on the 3rd line with Pelletier. That would save $1.56M.

2. I think that Zadorov will not be re-signed, $3.75M is just too rich for 3rd pairing muscle. Valimaki or Mackey will just have to step up their games. That would save at least $2.2M.

3. Try to replace Lucic by trading (picks or prospects) for Ryan Reaves who made $1.75M with the NYR last season. $3.5M in savings.

 

Total saved = $7.26M

That would be a total of 34.19M to sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk, plus fill out the other 8 roster spots.

 

I think Zadorov can play 2nd pair minutes with Tanev.  He has some mobility for a big guy and good compete level.  I believe many teams will try to sign him and he's getting a raise from that $3.75-mil.  For me, $4.5-mil is fair for a second pair guy like Zadorov... Check Jamie Oleksiak.  $4.6-mil long term with the Kraken.  I think Zadorov offers more dynamics and flash than Oleksiak.

 

Moreover, Sutter likes his big D.  I bet if Sutter had a choice between Zadorov and Kylington, he's screaming at BT to bring back Zadorov.  I would too.

[420since1974]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Phillips is someone to watch at training camp but we need to see NHL strength.  He is 5'-7" and unlike Johnny, he gets pushed down easily.

 

Moreover, we know Sutter likes a big tough bottom 6.  Phillips just doesn't fit this description.

I feel that Phillips will play in the NHL in the not too distant future.

I just don't think that it will be in Calgary.

The Flames organisation already have Gaudreau and Pelletier as under-sized forwards.

Phillips is a RFA with Arbitration Rights who is coming off a good AHL season (68 points in 65 games).

He should be re-signed and could be a decent piece in a future trade as an add-on .

[The_People1]

The Flames should be interested in Kirby Dach.

 

https://www.nhltraderumor.com/boston-bruins-interested-in-a-kirby-dach-trade/

 

If Scheifele is not available then could the Flames take a chance on a young kid who hasn't broken out yet?  Dach was a former 3rd overall pick and despite not looking like top line material anymore, could still develop into a 2nd line Center.

 

The rumor/suggestion is Carlo + Debrusk for Dach.  Should the Flames offer Hanifin + Dube for Dach?  Or could we do something around Kylington + Dube?  

[420since1974]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Zadorov can play 2nd pair minutes with Tanev.  He has some mobility for a big guy and good compete level.  I believe many teams will try to sign him and he's getting a raise from that $3.75-mil.  For me, $4.5-mil is fair for a second pair guy like Zadorov... Check Jamie Oleksiak.  $4.6-mil long term with the Kraken.  I think Zadorov offers more dynamics and flash than Oleksiak.

 

Moreover, Sutter likes his big D.  I bet if Sutter had a choice between Zadorov and Kylington, he's screaming at BT to bring back Zadorov.  I would too.

I have been impressed by Zadorov's mobility and speed for a big guy. He competes well and is a definite nuclear option to keep other teams honest.

His miscues/adventures don't happen all that much more often than Kylington's and they would probably happen a little less playing with Tanev.

Kylington was paid the league minimum last season, and even if he goes to arbitration, I don't feel he will receive much more than double or triple his last contract ($1.5M to $2.25M).

I would like to re-sign Zadorov; but just don't see a way to afford him, even if he doesn't get much of a raise in his next contract.

The only way that I see it as a possibility is if one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk aren't part of the Flames next season.

[420since1974]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

The Flames should be interested in Kirby Dach.

 

https://www.nhltraderumor.com/boston-bruins-interested-in-a-kirby-dach-trade/

 

If Scheifele is not available then could the Flames take a chance on a young kid who hasn't broken out yet?  Dach was a former 3rd overall pick and despite not looking like top line material anymore, could still develop into a 2nd line Center.

 

The rumor/suggestion is Carlo + Debrusk for Dach.  Should the Flames offer Hanifin for Dach?  Or could we do something around Kylington + Dube?  

As I read that article, the rumour/suggestion is Carlo OR DeBrusk, not both.

I think that I'd offer Dube and Phillips.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Hanifin for Dach.

Hanifin is a proven solid 2nd pairing D, Kirby Dach is mostly just potential.

I agree that Dach still has a chance to develop into a 2nd line centre, but he could just as easily top out as a Jankowski.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

I have been impressed by Zadorov's mobility and speed for a big guy. He competes well and is a definite nuclear option to keep other teams honest.

His miscues/adventures don't happen all that much more often than Kylington's and they would probably happen a little less playing with Tanev.

Kylington was paid the league minimum last season, and even if he goes to arbitration, I don't feel he will receive much more than double or triple his last contract ($1.5M to $2.25M).

I would like to re-sign Zadorov; but just don't see a way to afford him, even if he doesn't get much of a raise in his next contract.

The only way that I see it as a possibility is if one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk aren't part of the Flames next season.

 

Well BT has some work to do to free up cap space. 

 

Monahan $6.375-mil 4th line Center is luxury we cannot afford.

 

Lucic, same thing.  $5.25-mil to play an enforcer role we cannot afford anymore.  It was nice and all but that's not how to spend money in a cap world.

 

I would argue Toffoli as a 3rd line RW and PP specialist is too rich for our blood too.  Not to mention he has no playmaking Center to play with.

 

I believe Lucic would welcome a trade together with Toffoli.  They are best friends off the ice.  Lucic would waive to be traded together.  We can leverage Toffoli's trade value to move Lucic's cap hit off our books.  Don't expect much in return.

 

Spend the cap hit to lock up Zadorov who can play with Tanev in the top 4.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

As I read that article, the rumour/suggestion is Carlo OR DeBrusk, not both.

I think that I'd offer Dube and Phillips.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Hanifin for Dach.

Hanifin is a proven solid 2nd pairing D, Kirby Dach is mostly just potential.

I agree that Dach still has a chance to develop into a 2nd line centre, but he could just as easily top out as a Jankowski.

 

Here's another article that tries to re-create the same rumour/suggestion using Debrusk + Carlo.  And it makes sense it should cost that much.  Dach was a former 3rd overall pick.

 

https://nhlrumors.com/nhl-rumors-could-the-boston-bruins-montreal-canadiens-look-at-kirby-dach/2022/05/27/

 

This would be the Blackhawks trying to trade Dach before he turns into a Sam Bennett and the Flames didn't get back any impact players for Bennett.

 

Kylington put up good numbers this season so it's an opportunity to sell high.  Blackhawks need pretty much everything as they rebuild their roster so hard to know what they would want from the Flames.  Maybe picks and prospects.

[420since1974]

I totally agree that Treliving has some work to do to free up Cap Space.

He'll have to get very creative.

I have strong doubts that any team will trade for Monahan before next season begins; if the Flames want him off the roster, a buy out may be the only option.

I feel that Lucic could be fairly easily traded AFTER the Flames pay his signing bonus, if it's to one of his 10 chosen destinations.

Toffoli appears to be a favourite of Sutter, I think that he'll be staying.

If Monahan is on the opening day roster, what would you think of a 3rd line of Pelletier - Monahan - Toffoli?

I think that Pelletier appears to have some pretty good play-making skills and playing with those two vets could accelerate his development.

[The_People1]

37 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

I totally agree that Treliving has some work to do to free up Cap Space.

He'll have to get very creative.

I have strong doubts that any team will trade for Monahan before next season begins; if the Flames want him off the roster, a buy out may be the only option.

I feel that Lucic could be fairly easily traded AFTER the Flames pay his signing bonus, if it's to one of his 10 chosen destinations.

Toffoli appears to be a favourite of Sutter, I think that he'll be staying.

If Monahan is on the opening day roster, what would you think of a 3rd line of Pelletier - Monahan - Toffoli?

I think that Pelletier appears to have some pretty good play-making skills and playing with those two vets could accelerate his development.

 

I feel we need to move two of Monahan, Lucic, and Toffoli to make cap space so I just don't see a Monahan - Toffoli line.

 

Hope Pelletier comes ready to play next camp.  He should start off with sheltered minutes.  So whether that's with Monahan or Toffoli, that's a good start.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Would you be open to bringing back Zadorov and moving out Toffoli to get it done?

 

 

No. I'd be interested in moving Toffoli to get better at center but not for Z.  Z is a solid bottom 3 dman who I think has a high potential of getting overpaid this offseason. 

 

id be intersted in Z coming back but not at his current contract or a raise. Don't think that is worth it. 

[LouCifer]

I think this year has really proven how important it is to have depth and strength at the Center position. It's a non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned if we want a cup run. As such, that would be my focus this off-season. BT must find a solution for WHO we can acquire to slot in at the C position to push Backlund to our 3C. THAT would make the biggest impact IMO. We have wingers to spare, and C > W all day every day. 

 

We've discussed Scheifele and Barzal, but I think JT Miller should be targeted as well - and I believe acquiring him would be more in the realm of possibility than the other 2. I've seen articles suggesting VAN wants to trade him this off-season. Yes, VAN is a divisional rival, but they would also be getting a quality return from us - not just spare parts. So what would it take? JT plays a tough game (read: Darryl Sutter) and is a UFA at the end of next season. (Lucic's contract ends at the end of next season as well, just saying) There would be questions whether he would want to re-sign in Calgary, but, what would we be willing to give up to VAN knowing this possibility? VAN only has $11.5m in cap space which includes JT in the fold for next season. Boeser needs a new contract this summer, Horvat next summer, and they'll have to fill-out their D for the upcoming season too. I would bet VAN is looking for less salary coming back, and futures. 

 

Some hypothetical trade suggestions:

• Dillon Dube: As much as I like him, he's a player we should be willing to move to upgrade. He can play C and he'll save VAN $3m in salary cap instantly. While JT is a UFA after next season, Dube is an RFA after 2 seasons giving VAN total control for at least 3 years. Plus, Dube is a BC product and that might be viewed as a win to bring home a BC boy. Now, would more have to be added on our end? Does Dube's term, youth and salary offset that JT is the better and more impactful player? I think other teams may offer VAN more. Does adding Kyllington help? Or is it too much of an overpay on our end? How about adding a pick instead - a 2nd rounder if JT re-signs, or making it a 4th if he doesn't? 
   
• Valimaki: Look. I see the optics of trading an up and coming D-man to a rival for a UFA. However, IMO he rubs me the wrong way and I feel he's a Canucks style player. I liken him to Baertschi 2.0. I'd entertain this trade if we can talk to JT about an extension in advance. Of course, I'd use Valimaki in many trades (including to upgrade our D as well)
   
• Kyllington: It would take more than just Kyllington to land JT, of course, but perhaps Phillips or some of the other prospect you guys have mentioned could be included here. 
   
• Toffoli: He was a God in VAN and many feel he slipped through their fingers and became "the one that got away". Acquiring Toffoli would right a wrong in many people's eyes in Vancouver. I like Toff, but C > RW. Make no mistake he'll bury goals on us for the next 2 seasons, but he may be the key to getting a deal done for JT Miller. Toff has an extra year on his contract, compared to Miller. Would we have to add still? Maybe Phillips here as well, or Kyller instead? If both teams come out of the trade stronger, is that a bad thing? I think not. 

 

Have at 'er. 

[cross16]

I think the Flames need to be open to everything so I don't think the list of players they can't or shouldn't trade should be very long. Provided they get Gaudreau signed there is a real solid base here and a key move or 2 could put them right there so I don't think you close your doors to that.  The only players I'd be uncomfortable moving are:

 

Gaudreau

Tkachuk (unless the return is huge)

Lindholm (see above)

Backlund (unless another center is on his way here)

Andersson

 

Mang is really close to being in this list for me. I think they need to retain him but I also could see a scenario where you could swap him for an equal talent so it's worth considering. Would need to be a pretty attractive piece though. 

 

Everyone else I don't have fear in moving it just depends on the return. 

[travel_dude]

Toffoli seems to be not getting a lot of love from fans on here.  I get the arguments.  As good as the Flames did this season, we have problems with depth scoring.  Toffoli scored at a decent rate up till the point Monahan went off.  His assist rate dropped from last regular season, but then again we weren't scoring a lot of goal on the 3rd line.  Some of his points came on the PP, so it points to a weaker 3rd line as well.

 

The eye test seemed to put off a lot of fans about his play in the playoffs.  In the 2nd round, who exactly performed well?  

 

I think it's important that do a deep dive on players and their usage.  We lack a #2C.  We used Backlund as both a shutdown C and the 2nd scoring C.  We used the 4th line to intimidate and create turnovers.  Bottom line is that we have some scoring wingers and not enough places to use them.  Hard to construct scoring lines when you have but one offensive C.  

 

I think the top line players are untouchable, as well as Mangiapane.  Backlund is a player we still need.  When they went to Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman, it seemed like we had solved the top 6.  3rd line is messed up.  4th line played the way we asked them to, but can't play them 10 minutes very often.  The lack of depth really killed us.  Not having a Monahan replacement. 

 

  

 

[LouCifer]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Toffoli seems to be not getting a lot of love from fans on here.  I get the arguments.  As good as the Flames did this season, we have problems with depth scoring.  Toffoli scored at a decent rate up till the point Monahan went off.  His assist rate dropped from last regular season, but then again we weren't scoring a lot of goal on the 3rd line.  Some of his points came on the PP, so it points to a weaker 3rd line as well.

 

The eye test seemed to put off a lot of fans about his play in the playoffs.  In the 2nd round, who exactly performed well?  

 

I think it's important that do a deep dive on players and their usage.  We lack a #2C.  We used Backlund as both a shutdown C and the 2nd scoring C.  We used the 4th line to intimidate and create turnovers.  Bottom line is that we have some scoring wingers and not enough places to use them.  Hard to construct scoring lines when you have but one offensive C.  

 

I think the top line players are untouchable, as well as Mangiapane.  Backlund is a player we still need.  When they went to Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman, it seemed like we had solved the top 6.  3rd line is messed up.  4th line played the way we asked them to, but can't play them 10 minutes very often.  The lack of depth really killed us.  Not having a Monahan replacement. 

 

  

 

 

Hey TD, you all know I love Toff and was ecstatic when we acquired him. There's no love lost on my account. But as you identified we are Wing-Heavy and we need that 2C to balance our lines. As I said in my post, C > Wing and we need to acquire that 2C badly. As much as I'd like Toff to stay a flame, he's on the table for me if it helps us acquire a 2C. In my suggestion above, I feel like Toff would be viewed as very attractive to VAN in a JT Miller trade, and he's $1M less salary plus has an extra year on his contract. However, if VAN is more interested in Dube for the C position, salary, contract, age, and BC-association, imagine Toff playing with JT... wowza