2022 Offseason

[cross16]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I remember Ivan Provorov was in trade rumours at TDL.  He had such a good start to his NHL career and then plateaued for some reason.  PHI seems to be blaming him for their poor results this season.  Maybe with us, he can take another step forward.  He's not a stud #1 but he's an upgrade to Hanifin in all areas.

 

I posted that article/rumour where a PHI beat writer suggested PHI will/should target Mangiapane from the Flames to replace Giroux's scoring.  I wonder if Mangiapane/Provorov is a basis for a trade.  I like Mangiapane but at the end of the day, #1 LD is more important than 2nd line LW.  Getting Provorov here is buying low and selling high on Mangiapane.

 

I think if you don't feel like Hanifin is a top pairing dman then you will fall out of favor quickly with Provorov. I get the idea of potentially turning a player around and I like elements of his game but I think it's very debatable to say he is an upgarde to Hanifin. There is little that points that that either based on how his career is playing out, and i'm not even a person that likes Hanifin that much. 

 

I would not do that deal. 

[LouCifer]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:36 PM, sak22 said:

I don't think we can swing a big trade without using next years first and I don't think we are getting anything without either sending a quality current piece or a lot of futures, I think a major trade will include 2 of either 2023 1st, Wolf, Pelletier or Coronato.  Personally I'd rather look into clearing cap space and making a run at Trochek in free agency, won't be easy but I like the long term options of signing him this year instead of giving up a lot of assets for potentially 1 year of Miller or 2 of Scheifele.  Trochek isn't as good as the others but it would still be a great upgrade.

 

I'm going to bump this suggestion by @sak22 The more I think about it, the more I like it. As much as I see JT Miller as the superior player, there's so many hurdles to facilitate a trade with VAN. Division rival, JT is 1 year to UFA, what assets do we have to give up, will he re-sign with us, etc. Some research I've done on Trocheck:

 

- Trocheck is a UFA, so we'd have to outbid other teams I have a note on this at the end.

- Trocheck wouldn't cost assets, so we can use those assets to facilitate other trades to make us better. 

- Carolina has publicly expressed interest in bringing him back, citing him as "a priority"

- CAR has $19M in cap space and have a few RFAs to sign and they also want to bring Neideriter back. 

- He's 5'10, so not the biggest player, but he seems to play like one with the amount of hits that he throws. 

- His last contract was a $4.75M cap hit, but he got paid $6.25M in real dollars in his final year. 

- He's American, grew up in PIT, and there's some rumors out there he may like to play for the Penguins *if* Malkin isn't back

- He's married and has 2 children. 1 is turning 4 this month, and the other is turning 2 later in the year. 

 

It's hard to uproot your family if you have the choice to remain with the team and in the place you know, however, it is because one of his children will just be starting school in September, that I believe we have an opportunity to make him consider us. And I think Trocheck will weigh term more than dollars. How much term is Carolina going to offer him? The key could be offering him more. He turns 29 in July. Will they offer him 6 years? Should we? 

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't believe Chychrun ever said he's not happy with the direction of the team or anything.  He's such a good team guy.  Doesn't seem like something he would say.  

 

Keller is in the same situation.  Good talent wasted on a bad team.  Both deserve to be rescued from that situation.

 

it's not direct or controversial but this sounds to me like a player who doesn't want to be on this path, and I don't blame him. 

 

Quote

"I'm signed for three more years. So we'll see, I mean, the trajectory of, you know, where the team's going. And a lot of that stuff is important to me," Chychrun said. "I want to be in a position where I'm getting ready to play a week from now, you know, not packing up and leaving the boys. So that's really the biggest thing for me, is just having that competitive drive in me and burning desire to win a Stanley Cup."

Quote

"I've been here my whole career, I absolutely love it here. And it seems like every time we get to a point where it looks like we're going to be getting there, it (the team) just gets torn down again, " Chychrun said, referring to the Coyotes' rebuild under Armstrong. "So that was kind of tough on me a bit this year. Just naturally, as a human being and a competitive person, I want to win so bad."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2022/05/01/arizona-coyotes-jakob-chychrun-says-teams-rebuild-tough-him/9599205002/

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

it's not direct or controversial but this sounds to me like a player who doesn't want to be on this path, and I don't blame him. 

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2022/05/01/arizona-coyotes-jakob-chychrun-says-teams-rebuild-tough-him/9599205002/

 

Thanks.  Didn't know about these comments.

 

Would like to add him here obviously.  What would it take?

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Thanks.  Didn't know about these comments.

 

Would like to add him here obviously.  What would it take?

I don’t think the Flames could meet the price to be honest so it’s hard to even put forward an offer. 
if I were the coyotes I’m not moving Chychrun without getting at least one blue chip level prospect and I’d want two. Flames can’t fish in that pond. 

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

I'm going to bump this suggestion by @sak22 The more I think about it, the more I like it. As much as I see JT Miller as the superior player, there's so many hurdles to facilitate a trade with VAN. Division rival, JT is 1 year to UFA, what assets do we have to give up, will he re-sign with us, etc. Some research I've done on Trocheck:

 

- Trocheck is a UFA, so we'd have to outbid other teams I have a note on this at the end.

- Trocheck wouldn't cost assets, so we can use those assets to facilitate other trades to make us better. 

- Carolina has publicly expressed interest in bringing him back, citing him as "a priority"

- CAR has $19M in cap space and have a few RFAs to sign and they also want to bring Neideriter back. 

- He's 5'10, so not the biggest player, but he seems to play like one with the amount of hits that he throws. 

- His last contract was a $4.75M cap hit, but he got paid $6.25M in real dollars in his final year. 

- He's American, grew up in PIT, and there's some rumors out there he may like to play for the Penguins *if* Malkin isn't back

- He's married and has 2 children. 1 is turning 4 this month, and the other is turning 2 later in the year. 

 

It's hard to uproot your family if you have the choice to remain with the team and in the place you know, however, it is because one of his children will just be starting school in September, that I believe we have an opportunity to make him consider us. And I think Trocheck will weigh term more than dollars. How much term is Carolina going to offer him? The key could be offering him more. He turns 29 in July. Will they offer him 6 years? Should we? 

 

$6.25 x 6-years?  No from me.

 

He's not a clear upgrade to Backlund, IMO.

 

But he's such a player BT would target.  Like Blake Coleman (and Brouwer).  That veteran player with high compete level.  Overpaying for that 2nd tier guy who is 29-years-old and his contract will outlast his best before date.

 

Ultimately comes down to the cap hit but I feel we should rather give up whatever it takes to land Miller/Scheifele because Gaudreau's window is 2 or 3 years.  We've got Lindholm needing a new contract.  Tanev would retire.  And Sutter may go back into retirement after next season. We are in a bit of a rush.

[phoenix66]

speaking strictly from a "nothing is done until the pen hits the paper" perspective ....

 

NJ is on record as saying the #2 pick is in play ..  there's some very good prospects in that top3-5 

without some serious juggling we're gonna lose some good players trying to resign these top players , and leaves us virtually strapped to improve where we need 

 

what if , we were to send them Tkachuk for that 2nd overall (++), let THEM sign him for 10+

use that money to throw at Kadri.. I would imagine hes gonna get 7-9 on a long deal.. so the money is a wash but now youve filled that hole that's been empty for years 

 

Immediate upgrade at the #2 center position .. and some can argue , an upgrade on Tkachuk too ( he skates better .. he scores .. and is just as much of a pest )

this makes Toffoli better , alowing you to move Mangiapane into that top winger spot .. he's shown he can play at a high level and he wont have to carry the line .. he can play the same gritty style Tkachuk does in that role 

You get a top level prospect in the system 

 

then you can worry about the rest of the core , and not necessarily have to move players like Dube or Hanifin to full those holes 

 

 

I love Chucky , I really do . and ideally i want him for a long time but if you have the opportunity to upgrade and fix multiple issues at the same time I could be ok with it .. 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

$6.25 x 6-years?  No from me.

 

He's not a clear upgrade to Backlund, IMO.

 

But he's such a player BT would target.  Like Blake Coleman (and Brouwer).  That veteran player with high compete level.  Overpaying for that 2nd tier guy who is 29-years-old and his contract will outlast his best before date.

 

Ultimately comes down to the cap hit but I feel we should rather give up whatever it takes to land Miller/Scheifele because Gaudreau's window is 2 or 3 years.  We've got Lindholm needing a new contract.  Tanev would retire.  And Sutter may go back into retirement after next season. We are in a bit of a rush.

 

I tend to think that Sutter wants the farm to start running itself better.  If we go backwards, then yeah he wants out.  He wants to achieve what we missed out on this year.  A 25% chance at the cup.  

 

I don't think BT goes after JT.  The cost within division is too costly.  They don't have JB as the GM.  

 

Personally, the biggest need is a 1D.  If Monahan recovers, we have a 2C.  If Rozie is good enough, we have a 3C.  If both of those are true, we have 1-4 set.  Pelletier-Rozie-Toffoli could be the next big thing.  Need improvement on line 4.  Can't just be big and tough.  

[sak22]

4 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

I'm going to bump this suggestion by @sak22 The more I think about it, the more I like it. As much as I see JT Miller as the superior player, there's so many hurdles to facilitate a trade with VAN. Division rival, JT is 1 year to UFA, what assets do we have to give up, will he re-sign with us, etc. Some research I've done on Trocheck:

 

- Trocheck is a UFA, so we'd have to outbid other teams. I have a note on this at the end.

- Carolina has publicly expressed interest in bringing him back, citing him as "a priority"

- CAR has $19M in cap space and have a few RFAs to sign and they also want to bring Neideriter back. 

- He's 5'10, so not the biggest player, but he seems to play like one with the amount of hits that he throws. 

- His last contract was a $4.75M cap hit, but he got paid $6.25M in real dollars in his final year. 

- He's American, grew up in PIT, and there's some rumors out there he may like to play for the Penguins *if* Malkin isn't back

- He's married and has 2 children. 1 is turning 4 this month, and the other is turning 2 later in the year. 

 

It's hard to uproot your family if you have the choice to remain with the team and in the place you know, however, it is because one of his children will just be starting school in September, that I believe we have an opportunity to make him consider us. And I think Trocheck will weigh term more than dollars. How much term is Carolina going to offer him? The key could be offering him more. He turns 29 in July. Will they offer him 6 years? Should we? 

Most figured Coleman was heading to Dallas once he hit.  Its always hard to say, I think he played world juniors with Johnny and played with Markstrom briefly and Gudbranson who might not be back.  I'm not too hopeful about the idea, I just think there are 3 potential #2C on the free market, Kadri will be too expensive and is 32, Strome and Trochek and I like Vinny more, (I don't view Giroux, Malkin or Bergeron as possibilities either).  I don't like the trade options and don't want to empty the cupboards to shrink a window, why sell Gaudreau on 8 years and being a Flame for life if he will just become Iginla V2 and waste his latter years on a team that sacrifice everything for the now.  You can win now and later and this team is still playing today if a couple guys played like they have shown to be capable of.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

speaking strictly from a "nothing is done until the pen hits the paper" perspective ....

 

NJ is on record as saying the #2 pick is in play ..  there's some very good prospects in that top3-5 

without some serious juggling we're gonna lose some good players trying to resign these top players , and leaves us virtually strapped to improve where we need 

 

what if , we were to send them Tkachuk for that 2nd overall (++), let THEM sign him for 10+

use that money to throw at Kadri.. I would imagine hes gonna get 7-9 on a long deal.. so the money is a wash but now youve filled that hole that's been empty for years 

 

Immediate upgrade at the #2 center position .. and some can argue , an upgrade on Tkachuk too ( he skates better .. he scores .. and is just as much of a pest )

this makes Toffoli better , alowing you to move Mangiapane into that top winger spot .. he's shown he can play at a high level and he wont have to carry the line .. he can play the same gritty style Tkachuk does in that role 

You get a top level prospect in the system 

 

then you can worry about the rest of the core , and not necessarily have to move players like Dube or Hanifin to full those holes 

 

 

I love Chucky , I really do . and ideally i want him for a long time but if you have the opportunity to upgrade and fix multiple issues at the same time I could be ok with it .. 

 

Tkachuk for just a pick?  Steal for NJ.

We use the equivalent money to sign a soon to be 32 year old.

I like Bread, but the reason why the top line was able to do everything was a big body on the wing.

Mange probably gets 40 goals there, but the rest of the line suffers.

 

If I am trading Tkachuk there, I want Hischier or Bratt and Ty Smith.

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Tkachuk for just a pick?  Steal for NJ.

We use the equivalent money to sign a soon to be 32 year old.

I like Bread, but the reason why the top line was able to do everything was a big body on the wing.

Mange probably gets 40 goals there, but the rest of the line suffers.

 

If I am trading Tkachuk there, I want Hischier or Bratt and Ty Smith.

oh totally .. thats what the ++  was referencing 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

oh totally .. thats what the ++  was referencing 

 

Missed that part.  As much as I like high end draft picks, I would need to be 100% sure about who is #2 in the list and how soon he is a NHL player.  

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Tkachuk for just a pick?  Steal for NJ.

 

It's not "just" a pick.  The 2nd overall carries a ton of trade value.  Slafkovksy looks really good.  6'-4" with sick moves and good finish.  Jiricek is a highlight hitting Dman.  Nemec plays a smart and controlled game.  These guys are all franchise players.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to the trade straight up because there are some good players at the #2 spot.  Of course, #1 spot is the best.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Missed that part.  As much as I like high end draft picks, I would need to be 100% sure about who is #2 in the list and how soon he is a NHL player.  

 

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's not "just" a pick.  The 2nd overall carries a ton of trade value.  Slafkovksy looks really good.  6'-4" with sick moves and good finish.  Jiricek is a highlight hitting Dman.  Nemec plays a smart and controlled game.  These guys are all franchise players.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to the trade straight up because there are some good players at the #2 spot.  Of course, #1 spot is the best.

Ya this guy..  has Draisaitl comparable written all over him.. but TD is right , I'd want plus.. a prospect is just a prospect, they'd be getting the sure thing right away 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2022-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Juraj-Slafkovsky

 

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

If NJ wants Tkachuk, I'm asking for Luke Hughes, he interests me more than 2nd overall.

 

 

On another note.

If the Flames can do what it take to move Lucic and then buy Monahan out.

They can sign Johnny for up to 11

Tkachuk for 10.5

Mangiapane for 5.4

Kylington for 2.6

 

Biggest holes on the roster would be 3rd line C and 3rd pair RD. Ruzicka may be able to centre a 3rd line. Have to go bargain shopping for a 3rd pair RHD

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If NJ wants Tkachuk, I'm asking for Luke Hughes, he interests me more than 2nd overall.

 

 

On another note.

If the Flames can do what it take to move Lucic and then buy Monahan out.

They can sign Johnny for up to 11

Tkachuk for 10.5

Mangiapane for 5.4

Kylington for 2.6

 

Biggest holes on the roster would be 3rd line C and 3rd pair RD. Ruzicka may be able to centre a 3rd line. Have to go bargain shopping for a 3rd pair RHD

 

But his brother is Jack Hughes.  They will never trade Luke.

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

But his brother is Jack Hughes.  They will never trade Luke.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

But his brother is Jack Hughes.  They will never trade Luke.

They wouldn't be getting Tkachuk then. The Devils GM is related tp Tkachuk so he may be willing to do whatever it takes to land Matthew.

 

This 2nd overall pick just has so much risk. You'd be selling the idea of hope to the fans in exchange for a fan favourite player. If the Flames ended up with a Kakko or Nolan Patrick out of that deal, it wouldn't be viewed as a success.

 

Hughes isn't a sure thing, but I feel a heck of a lot better about what he projects to be than anyone in this class. 

[LouCifer]

11 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

They wouldn't be getting Tkachuk then. The Devils GM is related tp Tkachuk so he may be willing to do whatever it takes to land Matthew.

 

This 2nd overall pick just has so much risk. You'd be selling the idea of hope to the fans in exchange for a fan favourite player. If the Flames ended up with a Kakko or Nolan Patrick out of that deal, it wouldn't be viewed as a success.

 

Hughes isn't a sure thing, but I feel a heck of a lot better about what he projects to be than anyone in this class. 

Sounds to me like there could be a potential bidding war for Chucky between OTT, NJ, and St Louis? May the best offer win! 

[phoenix66]

25 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

They wouldn't be getting Tkachuk then. The Devils GM is related tp Tkachuk so he may be willing to do whatever it takes to land Matthew.

 

This 2nd overall pick just has so much risk. You'd be selling the idea of hope to the fans in exchange for a fan favourite player. If the Flames ended up with a Kakko or Nolan Patrick out of that deal, it wouldn't be viewed as a success.

 

Hughes isn't a sure thing, but I feel a heck of a lot better about what he projects to be than anyone in this class. 

that's why it would be First ++  , it just wouldn't be Hughes 

also if you're bringing back a bunch of salary it kind of defeats why you'd even consider it in the first place 

[The_People1]

26 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

They wouldn't be getting Tkachuk then. The Devils GM is related tp Tkachuk so he may be willing to do whatever it takes to land Matthew.

 

This 2nd overall pick just has so much risk. You'd be selling the idea of hope to the fans in exchange for a fan favourite player. If the Flames ended up with a Kakko or Nolan Patrick out of that deal, it wouldn't be viewed as a success.

 

Hughes isn't a sure thing, but I feel a heck of a lot better about what he projects to be than anyone in this class. 

 

How are they related?

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hughes isn't a sure thing, but I feel a heck of a lot better about what he projects to be than anyone in this class. 

 

Also, this draft class isn't particularly deep but by all accounts, it's stronger than last year's draft class.  There was no clear #1 last year and we saw many prospects fall.  Shane Wright would've gone #1 if he was in last year's draft.  And Slafkovksy also may have gone #1 if he was in the class of 2021.  Luke Hughes was picked #4 by the Devils who went off the board by 3 or 4 picks.  Hughes was ranked more like 6 to 8.

[sak22]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

How are they related?

[The_People1]

17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

thats why it would be First ++  , it just wouldnt be Hughes 

 

While we are at it, can we get Shane Wright for Tkachuk?  If so, then we should do it.  Wright projects to be a franchise Center.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Would there be a conflict of interest then?