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2022 Offseason


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Probably the biggest offseason in Flames history. The team could go a lot of different directions. 

 

Gaudreau. Does he stay or go? I think the Flames have to be prepared that him leaving could be a reality.

 

Tkachuk. I think his future is linked to Gaudreau. What kind of money would you pay him?

 

Big raises for Mangiapane and Kylington.

 

What does it cost to offload some bigger salaries?

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39 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

I hate to start on an aside, but I'm stoked that this thread isn't called BURN IT DOWN!

 

Things are looking up!

Love.

 

When we lost to DAL two years ago, I wanted to burn that team down.  This time around, there's so much worth salvaging here.  We should give this core one more go at it... assuming Gaudreau wants to come back.  The ball is in his court.  It's hard to say which direction we go because he's the most important player and all other dominoes fall depending on him.  If he leaves, then forget about another run like we had this season.  Tkachuk and Lindholm will go back to being 60-point players and we won't be a playoff team.

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7 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Trade Chucky regardless of Gaudreau.
Try to sign UFA Forsberg (he is Swedish). 😊

Re-sign Lewis

 

If Tkachuk is looking for $9-mil-per, then ya it's tough to justify.  

 

If Gaudreau comes back, then I would look at the Jets to see if Tkachuk for Scheifele can work.  I know Scheifele is 29 and only has two more years left before UFA but we are in win-now mode.  He's a $6.125-mil cap hit so that helps us bring back Gudbranson or Zadorov.  Moreover, Gaudreau is 28 so he's not going to be a 100-point player forever.  Scheifele is still producing elite numbers.

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It's an unpopular opinion but we should trade Kylington while his stock is high.  He was impressive with Tanev and teams think Kylington is the real deal because of that.  In fact, Kylington was exposed as completely unreliable after Tanev went down with an injury.  You can't trust him.  Can't play him.  He's a complete nobody unless he has Tanev on his side.  And before anyone says he's young and stuff, well he's not that young.  He's born same year as Hanifin and one year younger than Andersson.  Yet, he's so far behind in his game.  There's little reason to believe he would ever emerge as anything more than a depth Dman.

 

If anything, these playoffs exposed Hanifin who would fit better with Tanev on the second pair.  Hanifin is a solid 2nd pairing Dman who was asked to play above his skillset to stop McDavid and he failed.  Not completely his fault.  McDavid was unstoppable.  Hanifin-Tanev was solid last season so going back to that would work really well.

 

What this means is the Flames need a #1 LD.  I think LD is actually the biggest need for the Flames going into the summer.  There's none available via UFA so this has to come via trade.  The biggest trade bait we have could be Tkachuk... maybe for Chychrun but that ship might have sailed.  Don't know who else could be available.  Tkachuk for Heiskanen or someone like that would be a homerun.

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A few short seasons ago, the core of this team came off a stunted rebuild to have a surprisingly great regular season.

 

They followed this up by getting absolutely, and totally, obliterated in the playoffs.

 

 

Management looked at the playoff carnage and said 'right, let's build with this core".

 

 

So here we are.   After giving up many draft picks we've gotten to the point where we won a playoff round, and, then got absolutely obliterated in the 2nd round.

 

 

So, I've been pretty harsh on them, particularly after the Flames started building off of the playoff disaster from a few seasons ago.   In hindsight, was I too harsh?  In terms of caring too much, yes.   In terms of the criticism itself....

 

 

IMHO it is too soon to say.  But I don't think so.

 

 

If the Oilers go on to win the cup in these playoffs, then I can fairly say I went too far.  But if they crash and burn, which is my guess, then, some time after that (probably on draft day) I'll crack open a whiskey and have an epic meltdown on here around the same time we miss our first round call-up.   IMHO, the Flames did not lose to the playoff champs.   They lost to a team that has many of the same faults they do.  No defense, poor goaltending, size issues, lack of killer instinct in the playoffs.   We will soon see if the Oilers confirm or deny this.

 

Until then ;)

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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

A few short seasons ago, the core of this team came off a stunted rebuild to have a surprisingly great regular season.

 

They followed this up by getting absolutely, and totally, obliterated in the playoffs.

 

 

Management looked at the playoff carnage and said 'right, let's build with this core".

 

 

So here we are.   After giving up many draft picks we've gotten to the point where we won a playoff round, and, then got absolutely obliterated in the 2nd round.

 

 

So, I've been pretty harsh on them, particularly after the Flames started building off of the playoff disaster from a few seasons ago.   In hindsight, was I too harsh?  In terms of caring too much, yes.   In terms of the criticism itself....

 

 

IMHO it is too soon to say.  But I don't think so.

 

 

If the Oilers go on to win the cup in these playoffs, then I can fairly say I went too far.  But if they crash and burn, which is my guess, then, some time after that (probably on draft day) I'll crack open a whiskey and have an epic meltdown on here around the same time we miss our first round call-up.   IMHO, the Flames did not lose to the playoff champs.   They lost to a team that has many of the same faults they do.  No defense, poor goaltending, size issues, lack of killer instinct in the playoffs.   We will soon see if the Oilers confirm or deny this.

 

Until then ;)


my only thing is, we talk about how good the team is, at the end of the day they didn’t stick with their game. They got away from it. 
 

they’ve looked great at times. They had a great regular season! 
 

it’s awesome to win and they performed great in an odd season. 
 

i still expected more in terms of how they played, but at least they tried and were not no-shows. They shot themselves in the foot and bad times. 
 

its just hard to see them play great then stop doing what makes them successful. Is it the opponents stopping them?

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2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

A few short seasons ago, the core of this team came off a stunted rebuild to have a surprisingly great regular season.

 

They followed this up by getting absolutely, and totally, obliterated in the playoffs.

 

 

Management looked at the playoff carnage and said 'right, let's build with this core".

 

 

So here we are.   After giving up many draft picks we've gotten to the point where we won a playoff round, and, then got absolutely obliterated in the 2nd round.

 

 

So, I've been pretty harsh on them, particularly after the Flames started building off of the playoff disaster from a few seasons ago.   In hindsight, was I too harsh?  In terms of caring too much, yes.   In terms of the criticism itself....

 

 

IMHO it is too soon to say.  But I don't think so.

 

 

If the Oilers go on to win the cup in these playoffs, then I can fairly say I went too far.  But if they crash and burn, which is my guess, then, some time after that (probably on draft day) I'll crack open a whiskey and have an epic meltdown on here around the same time we miss our first round call-up.   IMHO, the Flames did not lose to the playoff champs.   They lost to a team that has many of the same faults they do.  No defense, poor goaltending, size issues, lack of killer instinct in the playoffs.   We will soon see if the Oilers confirm or deny this.

 

Until then ;)

 

 

Oh what a frelling shock.

 

Look who comes out of the woodwork when we are out?

 

Where were you in the cheering threads for the Flames?  

 

You just live off misery JJ.   One of those people who is always right in hindsight.  Crawl back under your stone you tosspot.

 

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1 hour ago, rocketdoctor said:

 

 

Oh what a frelling shock.

 

Look who comes out of the woodwork when we are out?

 

Where were you in the cheering threads for the Flames?  

 

You just live off misery JJ.   One of those people who is always right in hindsight.  Crawl back under your stone you tosspot.

 

Actually JJ is more of a realist…maybe comes off a bit negative but I think that’s been a bit of frustration over the past few years of doing the same thing and expecting different results…

 

anyway, they did get to the 2 ns round so that’s definitely an improvement so there are a lot of positives to take

out of this season, something to build

around but a few questions:

 

1. no 1st rounder..that’s gonna hurt

 

2. cap crunch 

 

3. the other point is like to make, is I can’t help but feel if Monahan had not been hurt, the team would have been much better not Only vs Edm, but Dal and well ever since Monahan’s season ended, they were not quite the same.  He may not have been scoring like we are accustom to, but he is one of the best FO and PP specialist in the game and it was very much noticed since his season ended. The problem here is he’s been hurt a lot and his scoring has dipped so his trade value is gonna be low, his cap hit is high and it’s hard to replace that FO and PP experience even if he were to be traded for a high return…so this makes things even harder.

 

add in it was a good season, a second round playoff appearance and a lot of RFA and UFA’s to re-sign and/or trade well, I really don’t want to have BT’s job…

 

Usually I have suggestions and I may later but it’s gonna take some serious thinking this time…I may just watch and wait this season it’s pretty complicated so for now good luck BT hope you have some sort of plan moving forward🤞

 

Anyway disappointing to

loose, especially to

Edm… but still a good season good work by all congrats 2022 flames! 

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I wanna hear the injury reports before I judge Tkachuk.. there's too many questions why he'd be so in effective in a series that shouid be his stage ..other than refs obviously wanted a wide open game ..but even then he was off ..

 

Initial feelings is wr expected this to be a step year . We took a few major steps ..but first impression observations ..

 

Resign Chucky and Gaudreau and Mangiapane 

Try and keep Zadorov and Gubrandson..but I doubt you can keep both 

 

Talk Lucic into retirement . Make him a coach or something 

 

Get Valimaki with Tanev next year . If you can't find a good spot for Kyllington trade him high .(even tho he's an rfa).. if he can make kyllington look that good this year, imagine what he can do with Valimaki  

 

Throw some money at Kadri .hed improve Toffoli and be our Hyman 

 

We need more net clearing dmen in the top 4 .. even at 10% we saw the difference Tanev makes .. id be open to trading Hanifin if it gets us another Tanev type to pair with Anderson.. but I'm not on the "trade Hanifin" bandwagon..just that he might be the asset required to get it done 

 

Upgrade Dube ..he's the one I'm most disappointed in . 

 

I'm perfectly fine with our goaltending..tho I wonder how long can we keep Wolf down ..one more year tops 

 

Cap will likely dictate that players like Phillips , Mackey and Valimaki play next year 

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

It's an unpopular opinion but we should trade Kylington while his stock is high.  He was impressive with Tanev and teams think Kylington is the real deal because of that.  In fact, Kylington was exposed as completely unreliable after Tanev went down with an injury.  You can't trust him.  Can't play him.  He's a complete nobody unless he has Tanev on his side.  And before anyone says he's young and stuff, well he's not that young.  He's born same year as Hanifin and one year younger than Andersson.  Yet, he's so far behind in his game.  There's little reason to believe he would ever emerge as anything more than a depth Dman.

 

If anything, these playoffs exposed Hanifin who would fit better with Tanev on the second pair.  Hanifin is a solid 2nd pairing Dman who was asked to play above his skillset to stop McDavid and he failed.  Not completely his fault.  McDavid was unstoppable.  Hanifin-Tanev was solid last season so going back to that would work really well.

 

What this means is the Flames need a #1 LD.  I think LD is actually the biggest need for the Flames going into the summer.  There's none available via UFA so this has to come via trade.  The biggest trade bait we have could be Tkachuk... maybe for Chychrun but that ship might have sailed.  Don't know who else could be available.  Tkachuk for Heiskanen or someone like that would be a homerun.

I would totally go after Chycrun.. hed be a guy id consider Hanifin in a trade..  

I wanna see Valimaki with Tanev next year, I love what Kyllington did this year but Valimaki skill and ceiling is way higher ..and Tanev is a dman whisperer .

I'm not sold on trading Tkachuk but Arizona isn't looking for stars they're looking to coast .. Hanifin Dube and kyllington might get you Chycrun+ and clear space for a couple farm kids like Pelletier 

 

Chycrun and Kadri .that's who I want this year for a shopping list (until Ufa forces other needs possibly)

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I would move Kylington before giving him too big of a raise. IMO he still makes too many mistakes to be a regular top 4 defenseman and is better suited as a bottom pairing guy. I still think anything more than $1.5m is too much.

 

I would gladly bring back Jarnkrok, I really liked the way he played, even though he didn't score till last night. He played hard every night, has tons of versatility and probably won't be too expensive to bring back.

 

I think we need to find a way to add more speed and size into our top 6.

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Bunch of thoughts a day after.

 

I would offer Gaudreau 10.5x8. Likely bonus laden in structure. If it’s money he’s after, someone has to give him 12x7 on the open market. Unless someone is desperate, I don’t see anyone giving him the 2nd highest cap hit in the league.

 

I’ve seen a lot of NJ fans badly wanting Tkachuk. It would make sense if that 2nd overall pick is in play. I would rather have Luke Hughes than 2nd overall though. If Tkachuk is asking for Marner money, I think you have to look at all of your options 

 

The Flames lost Gio last off-season and due to the emergence of Kylington, it went largely unnoticed. That said, I think he really faded the second half of the season. Depends on what his ask is, but if there’s a move to get a top 4 LD, I would be fine with including him.

 

I would call Anaheim and gauge their interest on Lucic. They traded away Deslauriers and then the ARI incident happened. The Ducks have tons of cap space and Lucic is only due 1 mill in actual money. I believe he still has his So Cal home as well.

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11 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Bunch of thoughts a day after.

 

I would offer Gaudreau 10.5x8. Likely bonus laden in structure. If it’s money he’s after, someone has to give him 12x7 on the open market. Unless someone is desperate, I don’t see anyone giving him the 2nd highest cap hit in the league.

 

I’ve seen a lot of NJ fans badly wanting Tkachuk. It would make sense if that 2nd overall pick is in play. I would rather have Luke Hughes than 2nd overall though. If Tkachuk is asking for Marner money, I think you have to look at all of your options 

 

The Flames lost Gio last off-season and due to the emergence of Kylington, it went largely unnoticed. That said, I think he really faded the second half of the season. Depends on what his ask is, but if there’s a move to get a top 4 LD, I would be fine with including him.

 

I would call Anaheim and gauge their interest on Lucic. They traded away Deslauriers and then the ARI incident happened. The Ducks have tons of cap space and Lucic is only due 1 mill in actual money. I believe he still has his So Cal home as well.

On Johnny . Without some major overhauling Philly can't pay him so there's that.. i think we resign Johnny .one way or the other well be surprised at the amount 

Again .I wanna see what injuries Tkachuk has before I make full judgement but I just don't think you trade him.. if he signs the offer and you don't get traction on an extension then maybe .. but if you do it needs to be a haul, bot just a 2nd overall.. this is a 100pt 30 goal player on the verge of being another brad Marchand 

 

We lost Gio before we knew kyllington could step up.. that was a pleasant surprise .. but to me he'll be low on the priority list and maybe a raise we can't afford ..just if we trade him, it's his rights so likely a late round pick from somebody .. signed he'd be worth more ..

I just feel a player like Valimaki wouid be a bigger asset next to Tanev and if that's the case who do you play kyllington with?  Maybe we lose both Zadorov and Gubrandson and we get kyllington/Mackey..but now we've lost size on the D 

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

It's an unpopular opinion but we should trade Kylington while his stock is high.  He was impressive with Tanev and teams think Kylington is the real deal because of that.  In fact, Kylington was exposed as completely unreliable after Tanev went down with an injury.  You can't trust him.  Can't play him.  He's a complete nobody unless he has Tanev on his side.  And before anyone says he's young and stuff, well he's not that young.  He's born same year as Hanifin and one year younger than Andersson.  Yet, he's so far behind in his game.  There's little reason to believe he would ever emerge as anything more than a depth Dman.

 

If anything, these playoffs exposed Hanifin who would fit better with Tanev on the second pair.  Hanifin is a solid 2nd pairing Dman who was asked to play above his skillset to stop McDavid and he failed.  Not completely his fault.  McDavid was unstoppable.  Hanifin-Tanev was solid last season so going back to that would work really well.

 

What this means is the Flames need a #1 LD.  I think LD is actually the biggest need for the Flames going into the summer.  There's none available via UFA so this has to come via trade.  The biggest trade bait we have could be Tkachuk... maybe for Chychrun but that ship might have sailed.  Don't know who else could be available.  Tkachuk for Heiskanen or someone like that would be a homerun.

 

Here's the problem with your login.  Hanifin has 7 full years in the NHL.  No injuries of more a 12 games in a season.  Kylington had zero playoff time and got stuck trying to adapt to playing with guys he was not used to.  And he has just one complete season after sitting out all but 8 games.  Hanifin is what you see and will never be any better.  Kylington is an unfinished product.  I'm not saying don't use him in a trade with his value high, but what are you getting for him?

 

Hanifin + Kylington ++ for Chychrun.  We fill the bottom pair with young cheap LD and Guddy.  We give Valimaki the Tanev treatment.

 

If you trade Tkachuk, then we have lost a regular season impact player.  And we best not have to play him much.  I'm on the fence about trading him.  His salary may kill us, but we would need a Forsberg to replace his minutes and scoring.  Not sure what happened in the playoffs with him, he sure didn't help his line much. 

 

I said this in another thread.

Convince Lucic to retire, after you pay his bonus.  There's not much left for him to accomplish if anything.

Move Hanifin.

Re-sign Guddy.

Get Reaves instead of needing to rely on Zaddy.

Tough team maintained.

Sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk and Bread.

Depending on the target, move Kylington.

Move Dube.

 

We need a balance of playmakers and finishers.

Tkachuk was a bit of both, but playing with a playmaker.

We don't really have a fit for Dube and he didn't take off this year.

Monahan will likely need to go, but not because of his salary, if we make other moves.

He might get the magic back, but I'm not holding my breath.

If he could C a line with Pelletier, that might just get him back to scoring.

Bring back Jarnkrok and play him on RW.  

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Chycrun and Kadri .that's who I want this year for a shopping list (until Ufa forces other needs possibly)

 

I like Kadri too but Kadri previously blocked a trade to Calgary.  He will once again have more options than Calgary so no way he comes here.  I wouldn't bother targetting a guy who doesn't want to be here.

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47 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I would move Kylington before giving him too big of a raise. IMO he still makes too many mistakes to be a regular top 4 defenseman and is better suited as a bottom pairing guy. I still think anything more than $1.5m is too much.

 

I would gladly bring back Jarnkrok, I really liked the way he played, even though he didn't score till last night. He played hard every night, has tons of versatility and probably won't be too expensive to bring back.

 

I think we need to find a way to add more speed and size into our top 6.

 

Yeah, I am kind of leaning that way with Kyler.  But, I think his perceived value in the market is higher than it is here.  He would be fine on a young team with sound defensive structure.  Mostly because they would take time to break his game down and build it up.  We are not in that mode.  

 

I also think we make a play to bring back Jarnkrok.  His battle level is high.  He gives you options at C or RW.  I would be guessing $1.5M with some term.  I think the Swedish Mafia will help him decide. 

 

We have to move on from Lucic.  Great guy to have, but his game is gone.  Offer him a coaching or front office gig and he can take his bonus in July and stop having to fight. 

 

Toffoli lost value this year, but I am inclined to find a fit with him.  Maybe if Monahan can get back, Pelletier as a playmaker helps both finish.  Maybe a line of Pelletier-Rozie-Toffoli becomes a new scoring line.  I'm starting to think we suffer the most from not having a playmaker past the top line.

 

4th line of grit and meanness was fine, but I think we need a bit more skill.  Maybe keep Lewis for RW and use Rozie there, if he's not taking the 3C role.  Or we get a big tough younger player there.    

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

It's an unpopular opinion but we should trade Kylington while his stock is high. 

 

I agree. I said that before the playoffs and I think playoffs did expose that while a decent depth dman he isn't a top 4 guy. I think in the back half of the regular season and into the playoffs he struggled and I just don't personally think the hockey sense is high enough there to warrant signing him. I would for sure be looking to move him and see if you can recoup some assets or upgrade elsewhere. I'm very confident that if you put Valimaki in that role you'd be fine (probably better) because Tanev is just that good. 

 

I don't see the Flames as having a lot of options this offseason so I fully expect they run it back with as many as they can. Maybe they can get creative but it's going to be tricky but my quick thoughts:

 

- I think the Oilers exposed the Flames d core as not been as deep and as good as it looked. I think the Flames were able to be strategic and cover up for the likes of Kylington, Gudbranson and Hanifin in the regular season but I thought all 3 got exposed in the playoffs. Now I don't suspect Hanifin is going anywhere and he has some strengths but I personally don't think he is a great defender. The Flames could really use a top end dman who can be good at both ends of the ice. VERY tough to find that though...

- Flames have to upgrade at center ice and they need someone who can dish the puck. I thought the way the Oilers defended the Flames exposed the lack of skill in the Flames forward group. They've got some shooters, they got some high end guys away from the puck and they are fast enough, but what they lack is players who can get the puck into high danger areas especially through tight windows. 

- I'd have some interest in brining back Janrkok but not at center. I think he is a solid winger but I don't think he is good enough playing center to keep. 

- Need to move on from Monahan IMO and it may take a buyout

- I'd actually explore the possibility of moving Toffoli as a way to upgrade. I don't want him gone necessarily but I thikn he is a piece you could maybe use to get better and i'm just not sure he is the best fit for them moving forward. 

 

Going to be real tough to upgrade though. The nice thing is I think there are 2-3 young players in the AHL/farm system who can make a difference to the team next year but it's going to take some real creativity to not just bring back this team but to get better. 

 

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9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I like Kadri too but Kadri previously blocked a trade to Calgary.  He will once again have more options than Calgary so no way he comes here.  I wouldn't bother targetting a guy who doesn't want to be here.

 

According to Kadri, he blocked a trade to stay in Toronto.  He only had a few cards he could play.  He was strategic in where he blocked.

Maybe he was okay in going to COL, but you have to think he picked teams he thought would be most likely to trade for him.

Or it was him and Gio.

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It would take some massive cap gymnastics for the Flames to get Kadri. He is about to get PAID. 

 

That's a deal I would want to stay well away from. I really like the player but that's a scary looking contract situation. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Going to be real tough to upgrade though. The nice thing is I think there are 2-3 young players in the AHL/farm system who can make a difference to the team next year but it's going to take some real creativity to not just bring back this team but to get better. 

 

If it's possible to get Lucic to retire after paying his bonus, then they should talk to him.  I'm not sure if that negates his full cap hit or not, but if it does, then explore the option.  I can't imagine this was a fun playoffs for him.  Not being a difference make, not fighting, not playing much.  More of an emotional leader than a player.  

 

The only way we have enough cap to upgrade is moving Monahan, Kylington, Lucic retiring, and using Dube in a trade.

Guddy can stay and Zaddy should go.  Jarnkrok back as a RW.

If Hanifin + Dube gets you a 1/2D, then you have to consider it.

But, I have no idea of a target, just suggesting what we can possibly offer.

 

I tend to think Rozie is ready.  Perhaps Pelletier is too.  That doesn't help size, but helps up the middle.

Will take a genious coach to put lines and pairs should we change dramatically. 

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3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It would take some massive cap gymnastics for the Flames to get Kadri. He is about to get PAID. 

 

That's a deal I would want to stay well away from. I really like the player but that's a scary looking contract situation. 

 

 

 

Same is true of Forsberg, but not to the same extent.  Another winger.

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2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

@The_People1

Im on board with your suggestions of looking into Schieffle and trading Kylington (I assume in a package for something of significance) 

 

Scheifele would be a great target.  I assume it's true he wants a fresh start and the Jets want to try something new next season.  Based on Tkachuk's 100-point season and the fact he's RFA controlled while Scheifele only has 2-years to UFA, I believe Tkachuk's trade value is higher.

 

That said, I think the Flames biggest need is a #1 LD and maybe it's best to use Tkachuk to get one.  If Chychrun is not available, then how about try Chabot from OTT using Tkachuk?  Let OTT unite the Tkachuk brothers.  That would be fun.  OTT has Jake Sanderson so maybe they would spare Chabot.  If we trade him home to St.Louis, then we want more than Krug back.

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