2022 Offseason

[robrob74]

58 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We have the same philosophy.  I believe top 6 forwards should be used for the PP and bottom 6 for the PK.  I know some forwards excel at everything but you risk your forwards getting injured from blocked shots during a PK.  Plus, save the energy for offense.  I want our PK forwards to be Jarnkrok, Lewis, Dube, Coleman, Backlund, etc, etc. (Yes get a 2C so Backlund/Coleman become 3rd line shut down players.)

that is great! 
 

maybe you play a Lindholm in one pK here and there just to keep the skill up in case the other pK specialist gets injured? But for the most part, I can agree with you and Lou! 
 

[LouCifer]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where do you get this from this video?  Nothing new from last week.  

Not the video, the article below it. It was posted 6hours ago, so I was just sharing that Scheifele may not be an option for us. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

Not the video, the article below it. It was posted 6hours ago, so I was just sharing that Scheifele may not be an option for us. 

 

The article is just GM-speak though.  If we present the right offer to the Jets, then they should listen to the offer.

[MP5029]

Off the wall thought but also something that could be a reality we may need to consider…

 

both Tachuck and Gaudreau don’t re-up…

 

so what then? Obviously trading rights before FA hits but what would they be worth?

 

gaudreau…1st ++?

tachuck…1st++?

 

id suggest the haul could be considerable and quite possibly enough to boost a very quick rebuild via obtaining a few franchise type players.  The question then would be if they need to go full rebuild, would these two not signed be forcing that? 
 

it’s not the worst case situation, there are a few franchise type player in 2022 and 2023 draft that could slid right in to the lineup right after the draft, so it’s possible that both not signed could be a bonus in terms

of getting that elusive top Ctr and D we keep falling just short of…maybe even a winger or two too? 
 

again, not ideal, but a reality that we may need to ponder…

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Off the wall thought but also something that could be a reality we may need to consider…

 

both Tachuck and Gaudreau don’t re-up…

 

so what then? Obviously trading rights before FA hits but what would they be worth?

 

gaudreau…1st ++?

tachuck…1st++?

 

id suggest the haul could be considerable and quite possibly enough to boost a very quick rebuild via obtaining a few franchise type players.  The question then would be if they need to go full rebuild, would these two not signed be forcing that? 
 

it’s not the worst case situation, there are a few franchise type player in 2022 and 2023 draft that could slid right in to the lineup right after the draft, so it’s possible that both not signed could be a bonus in terms

of getting that elusive top Ctr and D we keep falling just short of…maybe even a winger or two too? 
 

again, not ideal, but a reality that we may need to ponder…

 

Gaudreau could fetch a 2nd round pick for early negotiation rights.  The team paying the pick better be confident they can get him signed or they lose a pick for nothing.  Not to mention, if he refused to sign with Calgary, then it's almost certainly he signs out East... PHI, NJ, NYR, NYI... so no point in teams like ANA, DAL, MIN, etc to even try.

 

Tkachuk, it depends if he takes the 1-year $9-mil offer.  IF so, then he's worth a 1st + high end prospect + bottom 6 NHL player.  IF he refuses the 1-year $9-mil offer, then he's worth the RFA compensation for a player signing at $10-million.  So two 1st + 2nd + 3rd.

 

If the Flames lose Gaudreau to UFA for nothing then BT should promptly get fired.

[Thebrewcrew]

Some comps for Flames RFA's

 

Mangiapane

260gp 132 pts. Signing age 26. .51pt/g

Based on an AAV of 5.5

Josh Anderson 5.5x7. Signed at 26. Career pt/g of .43. 6.75% of the cap

Oliver Bjorkstrand 5.4x5 Signed at 26. .54pt/g. 6.63% of the cap

Both deals signed within the past two seasons.

 

Kylington

168gp 47pts. Signing age 25. .28pt/g

Based on an AAV of 2.5

Gustav Forsling 2.67x3. Signed at 25. .26pt/g

That deal was signed last July

The high end of a Kylington comp is the Josh Morrisey deal he signed out of entry level. 3.1x2

[The_People1]

This guy thinks Flyers should target Mangiapane because the Flames are in cap trouble,

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-should-acquire-mangiapane-from-flames/

 

Tyson Foerster had a knee injury and his develop is not on track.  They will probably not trade Cam York or their 5th overall pick.  Morgan Frost is borderline bust.  Dube is better.  All in all it's slim pickings here.

[MP5029]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Gaudreau could fetch a 2nd round pick for early negotiation rights.  The team paying the pick better be confident they can get him signed or they lose a pick for nothing.  Not to mention, if he refused to sign with Calgary, then it's almost certainly he signs out East... PHI, NJ, NYR, NYI... so no point in teams like ANA, DAL, MIN, etc to even try.

 

Tkachuk, it depends if he takes the 1-year $9-mil offer.  IF so, then he's worth a 1st + high end prospect + bottom 6 NHL player.  IF he refuses the 1-year $9-mil offer, then he's worth the RFA compensation for a player signing at $10-million.  So two 1st + 2nd + 3rd.

 

If the Flames lose Gaudreau to UFA for nothing then BT should promptly get fired.

I would think Gaudreau rights would fetch a 1st at least…it May not

be a high pick or many teams in the bid but between the 4 I’m sure each of them will make A sizeable offer, if

not to keep him from going to the other teams…or to simply drive the price up for him to cost the wining team more.

 

as for Tachuck I could

def see a seizable return similar to what you suggest.

 

having said all this here hoping none of this happens! 

[Thebrewcrew]

There's some questions about Backstrom's health in WSH. 

 

If he is unable to play again, I wonder if they could be a fit for Monahan.

 

Like Monahan, they have Carl Hagelin coming off significant injury. Perhaps there's a deal between those two. 

 

For Washington, it's essentially a 1yr deal at 3.6, with Hagelin's money out. Washington is deep up front, Monahan doesn't have to be that top scoring threat on the Caps. One year test drive of Monahan, for a bottom 6 winger. Cap hit is greater, but the UFA C market is always thin

 

Hagelin is attempting to comeback from a scary eye injury. He brings some speed to a bottom six. There's probably not a ton left in the tank, but the value in this deal is the 3.6 in cap savings. Fun little tie-in, his brother, Bobbie has been a scout for the Flames. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There's some questions about Backstrom's health in WSH. 

 

If he is unable to play again, I wonder if they could be a fit for Monahan.

 

Like Monahan, they have Carl Hagelin coming off significant injury. Perhaps there's a deal between those two. 

 

For Washington, it's essentially a 1yr deal at 3.6, with Hagelin's money out. Washington is deep up front, Monahan doesn't have to be that top scoring threat on the Caps. One year test drive of Monahan, for a bottom 6 winger. Cap hit is greater, but the UFA C market is always thin

 

Hagelin is attempting to comeback from a scary eye injury. He brings some speed to a bottom six. There's probably not a ton left in the tank, but the value in this deal is the 3.6 in cap savings. Fun little tie-in, his brother, Bobbie has been a scout for the Flames. 

 

Not sure if the market for Monahan exists.  He was a 4th liner for most of the year.  Every team knows he was slow coming back from hip surgery.  And now another one.  The perception is that it's going to be a slow recovery again and Monahan will only be 4th line material again.  At that cap hit for 1-year no team is going to touch that.

 

At $6.375-mil, teams want to be sure he can produce.

 

Hagelin LHS LW.  We should graduate Pelletier and play Ruzicka a full season.  We've got Dube and Lucic on LW... Probably should trade Lucic.  Still though.  No room for Hagelin.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not sure if the market for Monahan exists.  He was a 4th liner for most of the year.  Every team knows he was slow coming back from hip surgery.  And now another one.  The perception is that it's going to be a slow recovery again and Monahan will only be 4th line material again.  At that cap hit for 1-year no team is going to touch that.

 

At $6.375-mil, teams want to be sure he can produce.

 

Hagelin LHS LW.  We should graduate Pelletier and play Ruzicka a full season.  We've got Dube and Lucic on LW... Probably should trade Lucic.  Still though.  No room for Hagelin.

 

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to trade with ARI.  There is no leadership on their team, very little experience or big names.  All of the older guys that came in on cap dumps will be gone.  Kessel is done there.  Seeing as Chychrum is still inexperienced, we should entice them with Hanifin and Monahan.  Send Dube and another player/prospect.  Add a pick if necessary.  

 

Part of this is sending a quality player for a quality player.  Part is giving them a player that could rebound in a good environment.  Dube gives them a player that can move around.  We send 3 for 1, but we can replace some of it internally.  We can also perhaps convince Lucic to retire and move into a Flames office position, after he gets his bonus.  These few moves saves us about $13M.  Slight downgrade in losing Dube.  Allows us to change some of the imbalance of the lines.

 

The other alternative is dump to Detroit.  Wouldn't expect much in return.

 

[sak22]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to trade with ARI.  There is no leadership on their team, very little experience or big names.  All of the older guys that came in on cap dumps will be gone.  Kessel is done there.  Seeing as Chychrum is still inexperienced, we should entice them with Hanifin and Monahan.  Send Dube and another player/prospect.  Add a pick if necessary.  

 

Part of this is sending a quality player for a quality player.  Part is giving them a player that could rebound in a good environment.  Dube gives them a player that can move around.  We send 3 for 1, but we can replace some of it internally.  We can also perhaps convince Lucic to retire and move into a Flames office position, after he gets his bonus.  These few moves saves us about $13M.  Slight downgrade in losing Dube.  Allows us to change some of the imbalance of the lines.

 

The other alternative is dump to Detroit.  Wouldn't expect much in return.

 

I don't see why Arizona goes in that direction.  For one Hanifin is a year older, makes 350K more and has 1 less year remaining, Arizona will not be competitive by the time Hanifin's deal is up.  Dube is the same age and is still a work in progress.  Arizona is also playing in a 5k arena for at least 2 more years so I don't think they want to make a Chychrun move that nets them 9M in salary.  I don't see Arizona wanting to spend much higher than the cap floor, which they can probably get to once they deal with their RFA's and fill out the roster.

 

I don't think Lucic is going to retire, and I don't think teams are lining up for to take on his contract just for his toughness.  If he isn't a Flame next year, he'll either still be on the payroll or we'll be out a few more picks.  

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I don't see why Arizona goes in that direction.  For one Hanifin is a year older, makes 350K more and has 1 less year remaining, Arizona will not be competitive by the time Hanifin's deal is up.  Dube is the same age and is still a work in progress.  Arizona is also playing in a 5k arena for at least 2 more years so I don't think they want to make a Chychrun move that nets them 9M in salary.  I don't see Arizona wanting to spend much higher than the cap floor, which they can probably get to once they deal with their RFA's and fill out the roster.

 

I don't think Lucic is going to retire, and I don't think teams are lining up for to take on his contract just for his toughness.  If he isn't a Flame next year, he'll either still be on the payroll or we'll be out a few more picks.  

 

A lot of "I" in your response, much like mine.  LOL.  ARI seems to want to trade Chychrun for some reason.  A trade for just picks and former first rounders doesn't help unless there is salary to reach the cap floor.  They might overpay for some 2nd rate talent in FA (who wants to play in a 5000 seat arena), but that's no better than trading for a former 30 goal scorer.  

 

I truly have no idea of what ARI wants to do.  BT may still have some backchannels with them.  Perhaps you take Hanifin off the trade and use Kylington instead.  Add Zary and a 2nd rounder.  Or you take Ghost in the trade and include Hanifin.  Who knows. 

 

The reason I say Lucic may retire is that he's a proud guy.  He knows his play is declining.  He has a role and it only works half the time.  Taking the bonus gives him 75% of his final year money.  He turns 34 this month.    

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

ARI seems to want to trade Chychrun for some reason.

 

IMO, they don't want to trade Chychrun.  There was speculation only because ARZ is obviously tanking.  I think ARZ just respectfully listened to offers and didn't move from their asking price (which I believe is four 1st round picks or equivalent).  They were never seriously shopping him or they would've just took the best offer.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

IMO, they don't want to trade Chychrun.  There was speculation only because ARZ is obviously tanking.  I think ARZ just respectfully listened to offers and didn't move from their asking price (which I believe is four 1st round picks or equivalent).  They were never seriously shopping him or they would've just took the best offer.

The timing was all wrong.  TDL almost.  You don't get the offers you want.  Other teams with assets or space don't want to change during a potential lotto season.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

IMO, they don't want to trade Chychrun.  There was speculation only because ARZ is obviously tanking.  I think ARZ just respectfully listened to offers and didn't move from their asking price (which I believe is four 1st round picks or equivalent).  They were never seriously shopping him or they would've just took the best offer.

 

And on that note, I don't know where we can get a #1 LD.  They don't grow on trees and teams won't let them go unless we overpay.

 

Tkachuk for Chabot is crazy for both teams.  Don't think that will happen.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

The timing was all wrong.  TDL almost.  You don't get the offers you want.  Other teams with assets or space don't want to change during a potential lotto season.

 

Not sure about that because Chychrun doesn't have a high cap hit.  Meanwhile ARZ has lots of cap room.  The team acquiring Chychrun should have space...

 

But still fair argument.  More teams should be in the running for Chychrun now.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

And on that note, I don't know where we can get a #1 LD.  They don't grow on trees and teams won't let them go unless we overpay.

 

Tkachuk for Chabot is crazy for both teams.  Don't think that will happen.

 

I would think Dahlin could be had from BUF because they have Power now.   But it might take Tkachuk... Not sure if Mangiapane would do it.  BUF fans want Tkachuk badly... Their next Matthew Barnaby... They want that kind of attitude back on their team.

 

Yet, Dahlin is so bad defensively.  He's a PP specialist who can score 70-points one day but not sure he's an every situation player.  Sutter would not have patience for him.

[The_People1]

I remember Ivan Provorov was in trade rumours at TDL.  He had such a good start to his NHL career and then plateaued for some reason.  PHI seems to be blaming him for their poor results this season.  Maybe with us, he can take another step forward.  He's not a stud #1 but he's an upgrade to Hanifin in all areas.

 

I posted that article/rumour where a PHI beat writer suggested PHI will/should target Mangiapane from the Flames to replace Giroux's scoring.  I wonder if Mangiapane/Provorov is a basis for a trade.  I like Mangiapane but at the end of the day, #1 LD is more important than 2nd line LW.  Getting Provorov here is buying low and selling high on Mangiapane.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I remember Ivan Provorov was in trade rumours at TDL.  He had such a good start to his NHL career and then plateaued for some reason.  PHI seems to be blaming him for their poor results this season.  Maybe with us, he can take another step forward.  He's not a stud #1 but he's an upgrade to Hanifin in all areas.

 

I posted that article/rumour where a PHI beat writer suggested PHI will/should target Mangiapane from the Flames to replace Giroux's scoring.  I wonder if Mangiapane/Provorov is a basis for a trade.  I like Mangiapane but at the end of the day, #1 LD is more important than 2nd line LW.  Getting Provorov here is buying low and selling high on Mangiapane.

 

If they want to move on from IP, then a lesser trade to reduce the cap might make more sense.  I get the need for scoring, but Hanifin makes sense for them.  A career year for him.  Almost $2M cheaper.  More of a mover than IP.  IP also has the big final contract year actual salary.  

 

From a Flyers perspective, I don't know if this helps them.  It doesn't hurt.  Maybe they get a better offer, maybe not.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

If they want to move on from IP, then a lesser trade to reduce the cap might make more sense.  I get the need for scoring, but Hanifin makes sense for them.  A career year for him.  Almost $2M cheaper.  More of a mover than IP.  IP also has the big final contract year actual salary.  

 

From a Flyers perspective, I don't know if this helps them.  It doesn't hurt.  Maybe they get a better offer, maybe not.

 

If we are saying goodbye to Zadorov (we shouldn't), but if we do, then we need to keep Hanifin.  Hanifin-Tanev was great together.  There should be no hesitation going back to that.  Meanwhile, we can try a Provorov-Andersson top pairing... If that doesn't work, then go Hanifin-Andersson and Provorov-Tanev.  Anyways, keep Hanifin as he's a good 2nd pair D... Unless PHI demands a D back in return.  I'm more inclined to move Mangiapane+Kylington for Provorov in that case.

[The_People1]

How about,

 

To WPG,

Mangiapane + Backlund + Coleman

 

To CGY,

Scheifele + Lowry

 

Leaves WPG with,

Connor - PLD - Ehlers

Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

LW - Perfetti - Wheeler

 

Would the Jets do this?  I wonder if Adam Lowry would be available now that they fired his dad as coach.  Maybe Lowry doesn't want to be there anymore.  He would give us a 3rd line Center with size.

 

Gaudreau - Scheifele - Toffoli

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube

Pelletier - Lowry - Jarnkok

Lucic - Ruzicka - Lewis

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

A lot of "I" in your response, much like mine.  LOL.  ARI seems to want to trade Chychrun for some reason. 

 

He is UFA in 3 years, already not that happy with the team and direction, and on a team taking it down to the studs. I don't think Arizona plans on being good in 3 years so why is Chychrun going to stay? On top of that why wait another year or 2 to delay the inevitable when you can get pieces now that help you meet that 3-4 year rebuild window instead of waiting and then getting pieces that are another few years away. 

 

I still don't think they trade him without a haul so it won't shock me if it takes until next summer but I think the idea of trading him makes perfect sense to me. 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He is UFA in 3 years, already not that happy with the team and direction, and on a team taking it down to the studs. I don't think Arizona plans on being good in 3 years so why is Chychrun going to stay? On top of that why wait another year or 2 to delay the inevitable when you can get pieces now that help you meet that 3-4 year rebuild window instead of waiting and then getting pieces that are another few years away. 

 

I still don't think they trade him without a haul so it won't shock me if it takes until next summer but I think the idea of trading him makes perfect sense to me. 

 

I don't believe Chychrun ever said he's not happy with the direction of the team or anything.  He's such a good team guy.  Doesn't seem like something he would say.  

 

Keller is in the same situation.  Good talent wasted on a bad team.  Both deserve to be rescued from that situation.

[LouCifer]

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