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2022 Offseason


Thebrewcrew

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13 hours ago, cross16 said:


They had Barzal though, a player who could fill the skill gap left by Tavares and they also hired Trotz. 
I don’t think the bottom would fall out of the Flames lost Gaudreau, they are probably still a playoff team but I’m with Peeps that I don’t see how they get better without him. Huge talent gap that they cannot fill internally. 

And that's exactly it .. we would find a way to full it with the money it frees up..

That being said Im confident he stays. They may have been quiet all year but there's definitely been at least GM/agent conversation. BT has an idea where it's at.if there had been any underlying belief there was a high chance of not getting it done Johnny would have been gone by now already .

 

Things can change tho, I just hope it gets done early because that's the domino that will decide alot of other moves or potentially hold them all up 

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

And that's exactly it .. we would find a way to full it with the money it frees up..

That being said Im confident he stays. They may have been quiet all year but there's definitely been at least GM/agent conversation. BT has an idea where it's at.if there had been any underlying belief there was a high chance of not getting it done Johnny would have been gone by now already .

 

Things can change tho, I just hope it gets done early because that's the domino that will decide alot of other moves or potentially hold them all up 


I think it gets done too and I’m honestly not that concerned. 
 

but if I’m wrong I’m just saying I’m with Peeps. Might as well rebuild because I do think the flames take a step back with Gaudreau gone. Just such a drop off in talent that j don’t see how they fill 

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I actually wonder if they don't pull a Kucherov with Monahan 

He's likely not gonna be 100% for start of season.. he's obviously pushed his returns previously.. rehab him all year on IR keep him off the books , have him ready for playoffs but use his cap elsewhere ..

He's not tradeable unless we pay.. only other option is a buy out but then you have $ on the books and we need likely every penny 

Why not . Every other team is doing it 

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39 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I actually wonder if they don't pull a Kucherov with Monahan 

He's likely not gonna be 100% for start of season.. he's obviously pushed his returns previously.. rehab him all year on IR keep him off the books , have him ready for playoffs but use his cap elsewhere ..

He's not tradeable unless we pay.. only other option is a buy out but then you have $ on the books and we need likely every penny 

Why not . Every other team is doing it 

The biggest issue though would be Monahan becoming healthy. The league really cracks down on it now and when you dip into LTIR you aren't accruing cap space.

 

Frank Seravalli seems to think there were teams interested in Monahan this season, so I guess we will see.

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19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is there another Tanev type available out there in UFA?


not really. It’s not a good free agent crop this year for dmen . Josh Manson is probably the closest you’ll find. 
 

It’s also very unlikely the Flames can afford a dman like that in FA this year unless they don’t resign Gaudreau or Tkachuk. 

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3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I actually wonder if they don't pull a Kucherov with Monahan 

He's likely not gonna be 100% for start of season.. he's obviously pushed his returns previously.. rehab him all year on IR keep him off the books , have him ready for playoffs but use his cap elsewhere ..

He's not tradeable unless we pay.. only other option is a buy out but then you have $ on the books and we need likely every penny 

Why not . Every other team is doing it 


The Kucherov story is getting really miss understood. He didn’t even start skating until a few eeeks before he came back, he had a legitimate injury. I’m sure thr lightning held him back a couple of weeks to align with the playoffs by this idea that they say him for months and months while he was healthy to play is just not accurate. 
unless their is a huge setback in his surgery or recovery I don’t see how the Flames can hold Monahan out for an entire season. He and his agent would sure have something to say about that. 

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Tanev probably misses the first month, maybe more.

 

I think we'll see Stone brought back again. I would try to bring Gudbranson back, but not at 1.9. He's a guy that's played on 6 teams since 2019, I'd try to entice him with term rather than dollars. Bogosian signed in TB for 850k x3. Something like that. 

 

 

I think Tkachuk would be wise to take the long-term deal this summer. Couldn't have picked a better season to post 100pts. When you're coming off a 100pt season, I think it would be absolutely foolish to not take a long term deal. Tkachuk will be productive again next season, but there's going to be regression, simply because the Flames won't avoid the injury bug as successfully next year. Unless he really wants out, take the 80 or so mill this summer. 

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10 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I actually wonder if they don't pull a Kucherov with Monahan 

He's likely not gonna be 100% for start of season.. he's obviously pushed his returns previously.. rehab him all year on IR keep him off the books , have him ready for playoffs but use his cap elsewhere ..

He's not tradeable unless we pay.. only other option is a buy out but then you have $ on the books and we need likely every penny 

Why not . Every other team is doing it 

Treliving has stated that Monahan's rehab is 5 - 6 weeks ahead of the previous surgery on his other hip.

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5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Tanev probably misses the first month, maybe more.

 

I think we'll see Stone brought back again. I would try to bring Gudbranson back, but not at 1.9. He's a guy that's played on 6 teams since 2019, I'd try to entice him with term rather than dollars. Bogosian signed in TB for 850k x3. Something like that. 

 

I don't mind Stone as the 7th D again.  If we can find an upgrade then that would be best but for minimum wage, it would be pretty tough to find a better one.  Stone knows the team and Sutter trusts him.  It's a good working relationship.  Stone was serviceable when we needed him for 11 games down the stretch.

 

Gudbranson had a career year so I wonder if he's looking for a pay raise, if not here then somewhere else.  He's 30-years-old and finally had a good season with good numbers.  This is his last chance to score another big contract before he's too old.  He previously made $4-mil-per and reluctantly signed with us the final week of the summer because there wasn't a better deal to be had.  I wonder if he's looking for a $4-mil-per again.  He could probably get that.  He also won't get a big role here playing behind Andersson and Tanev on the depth chart.  Meanwhile, there's 5 or 6 teams with lots of cap space looking for a 2nd pairing RHS RD with size and grit.

 

I'd like Gudbranson back on a good deal too but not sure if that will happen.  I'd like Zadorov back too.  I think he stepped up during the playoffs and provided some great hits.  He moves very well for a big guy and Sutter wants a big blueline.  Zadorov is as big as they come.  Something we never tried but should consider if using a Zadorov - Tanev second pairing next season.  I think Zadorov can handle a bigger role especially with Tanev.  I know everyone wants Valimaki with Tanev but I have my doubts about Valimaki.

 

ALL that said, when you have a great regular season like the Flames then other teams are going to poach your players.  Zadorov and Gudbranson represent two luxuries we may not be able to afford moving forward.

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51 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't mind Stone as the 7th D again.  If we can find an upgrade then that would be best but for minimum wage, it would be pretty tough to find a better one.  Stone knows the team and Sutter trusts him.  It's a good working relationship.  Stone was serviceable when we needed him for 11 games down the stretch.

 

Gudbranson had a career year so I wonder if he's looking for a pay raise, if not here then somewhere else.  He's 30-years-old and finally had a good season with good numbers.  This is his last chance to score another big contract before he's too old.  He previously made $4-mil-per and reluctantly signed with us the final week of the summer because there wasn't a better deal to be had.  I wonder if he's looking for a $4-mil-per again.  He could probably get that.  He also won't get a big role here playing behind Andersson and Tanev on the depth chart.  Meanwhile, there's 5 or 6 teams with lots of cap space looking for a 2nd pairing RHS RD with size and grit.

 

I'd like Gudbranson back on a good deal too but not sure if that will happen.  I'd like Zadorov back too.  I think he stepped up during the playoffs and provided some great hits.  He moves very well for a big guy and Sutter wants a big blueline.  Zadorov is as big as they come.  Something we never tried but should consider if using a Zadorov - Tanev second pairing next season.  I think Zadorov can handle a bigger role especially with Tanev.  I know everyone wants Valimaki with Tanev but I have my doubts about Valimaki.

 

ALL that said, when you have a great regular season like the Flames then other teams are going to poach your players.  Zadorov and Gudbranson represent two luxuries we may not be able to afford moving forward.

I think Zadorov is gone. He’s still young enough to get a 3 or 4yr deal in that 3.5-3.75 range.

 

 I think the biggest reason for Gudbranson’s season was he was finally slotted properly. He’s best utilized in a 3rd pairing role with time on the PK. He was a high pick back in a time where traditional hockey attributes reigned supreme in the hockey world. He’s been able to make a lot of money due largely to him being a 3rd overall selection. I would be surprised if a significant raise is out there for a one-dimensional player. He is coming off a career year which is nice, but it’s still only 17pts in a season and he’s not yet at 100 career pts in over 600 games. There’s value in him, but if he’s asking for more than 1.9, stay away BT

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5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Tkachuk would be wise to take the long-term deal this summer. Couldn't have picked a better season to post 100pts. When you're coming off a 100pt season, I think it would be absolutely foolish to not take a long term deal. Tkachuk will be productive again next season, but there's going to be regression, simply because the Flames won't avoid the injury bug as successfully next year. Unless he really wants out, take the 80 or so mill this summer. 

 

I assume Tkachuk will ask for max money after a career year.  He's never been point-per-game until this season so the Flames can make a case he doesn't have the track record.  However, Tkachuk can also make the case he's only 24 and his best years are about to come.  The average NHL superstar posts their most productive year around the age of 27.  If the Flames want to buy Tkachuk's best years and buy his UFA years, then it's going to cost upwards in the range of a Panarin/Marner level deal.  Tkachuk should be asking for something between $10.9 and $11.6-mil x 8-years.

 

The Flames case is that Tkachuk's career numbers are closer to Brayden Point's career numbers.  Point's best season was 41G 51A 92PTS and Point signed his new deal last summer for $9.5-mil after a down year.  Point had one really good season out of 6.  Barkov is another comparable and he signed a $10-mil x 8-year extension.  Except, both Barkov and Point are Centers which is a harder position to play.  The Flames should use all of these against Tkachuk and get him signed between $9.5 and $10-mil x 8-years.

 

What complicates matters is the Flames have to offer him a $9-mil qualifying offer and if the Flames are offering $9.5-mil x 8-years then he can just take the 1-year and go UFA next summer.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Zadorov is gone. He’s still young enough to get a 3 or 4yr deal in that 3.5-3.75 range.

 

 I think the biggest reason for Gudbranson’s season was he was finally slotted properly. He’s best utilized in a 3rd pairing role with time on the PK. He was a high pick back in a time where traditional hockey attributes reigned supreme in the hockey world. He’s been able to make a lot of money due largely to him being a 3rd overall selection. I would be surprised if a significant raise is out there for a one-dimensional player. He is coming off a career year which is nice, but it’s still only 17pts in a season and he’s not yet at 100 career pts in over 600 games. There’s value in him, but if he’s asking for more than 1.9, stay away BT

 

Ya it's too bad.  If we had a choice then we should move Toffoli's cap hit and bring back Zadorov for the second pairing LD with Tanev.  We don't have a playmaker for Toffoli anyways so we're wasting his talents on the 3rd line.  In a perfect world, we also trade Hanifin and whatever it takes to get a legit #1 LD.

 

#1LD - Andersson

Zadorov - Tanev

#3LD - Gudbranson

7thD (Stone) 

 

Forget Valimaki and Kylington.  We should sell high on Kylington.  Valimaki is 24-years-old in October.  Not a spring chicken anymore and it's not even clear he's going to make the NHL at camp.  

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I assume Tkachuk will ask for max money after a career year.  He's never been point-per-game until this season so the Flames can make a case he doesn't have the track record.  However, Tkachuk can also make the case he's only 24 and his best years are about to come.  The average NHL superstar posts their most productive year around the age of 27.  If the Flames want to buy Tkachuk's best years and buy his UFA years, then it's going to cost upwards in the range of a Panarin/Marner level deal.  Tkachuk should be asking for something between $10.9 and $11.6-mil x 8-years.

 

The Flames case is that Tkachuk's career numbers are closer to Brayden Point's career numbers.  Point's best season was 41G 51A 92PTS and Point signed his new deal last summer for $9.5-mil after a down year.  Point had one really good season out of 6.  Barkov is another comparable and he signed a $10-mil x 8-year extension.  Except, both Barkov and Point are Centers which is a harder position to play.  The Flames should use all of these against Tkachuk and get him signed between $9.5 and $10-mil x 8-years.

 

What complicates matters is the Flames have to offer him a $9-mil qualifying offer and if the Flames are offering $9.5-mil x 8-years then he can just take the 1-year and go UFA next summer.

If I've learned one thing with BT its that his contracts nearly always come in less than what we figured they'd be .(his resignings anyway) 

Johnny won't be cheap. But I can see a 10.x over 8. Anyplace else he's getting 11 or 12

 

Tkachuk is an interesting case .. we have to qualify at 9.. he can then go Ufa next year .but he's coming off a career year..a year that before that many said he wasn't worth the 9..but hes redeemed that..if he signs the offer he has to do it again . Could get injured , many factors could derail that ..

His brother signed a 7x8.2.. I think you get Matthew long term over 8 with a number between 8 and 9.5..  all told you can get them both for about 20 

 

I love that word is BT is going to work on both of them right away .. these both need to be done before UFA .. ideally before draft.. too many roster decisions hinge on those 2 numbers 

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At this point Gaudreau is going to listen to what other teams have to offer and why wouldn't he? He's made himself a lot of money this season, by betting on himself and not taking an extension a year ago. Why come this far only to sign 6 weeks out from UFA?

 

If Gaudreau is staying, I don't think we're talking about him signing in two or three weeks. This thing is going to come right down to the week of July 13. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

At this point Gaudreau is going to listen to what other teams have to offer and why wouldn't he? He's made himself a lot of money this season, by betting on himself and not taking an extension a year ago. Why come this far only to sign 6 weeks out from UFA?

 

If Gaudreau is staying, I don't think we're talking about him signing in two or three weeks. This thing is going to come right down to the week of July 13. 

 

I don't think it will.. if his preference is Calgary, and it sounds like it is. The $ and term is the only discussion. Everybody knows the comparables on both sides . They aren't starting discussions from scratch here .. and BT will stress and Johnny will agree , the quicker the better this gets done 

If it goes to Ufa ? That's an indication that Calgary is not his first choice 

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Forget Valimaki and Kylington.  We should sell high on Kylington.  Valimaki is 24-years-old in October.  Not a spring chicken anymore and it's not even clear he's going to make the NHL at camp.  

*If* Arizona is looking for D to replace Chychrun’s departure, why not offer them both Valimaki and Kylington for Chyc?
Or, Hanifin and one of those two players?

Or maybe even Mony plus one of those 2 players?

We definitely need to shore up D and I think Chyc could give us a different look on our PP.
 

Regarding your Toffoli comment, I definitely hailed his acquisition and while I fully agree he underwhelmed, I’d sooner ship Chucky out for an incredible return (because tying up $8-$10m in cap space for him alone is just unfathomable and irresponsible to me) and I’d have Toff move up to line 1 in his place at less than half the cost. Let’s be honest here, any player that plays with Johnny and Lindy is going to get an offensive bump - but Toff has finishing skills that are above the average player. This of course shows that Gaudreau is priority 1 to me and following that we should be looking at D and the C position before entertaining a Chucky contract. 
 

If Scheiffle is available, we HAVE TO go for him. The C position is so critical for success. Imagine the impact and difference it would make for this team to have the following down the middle:

Lindholm

Scheiffle

Backlund

Jarnkrok (this assumes we get him back, but we also have Dube, potentially Lewis back, Ruzie)… 

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3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

If I've learned one thing with BT its that his contracts nearly always come in less than what we figured they'd be .(his resignings anyway) 

Johnny won't be cheap. But I can see a 10.x over 8. Anyplace else he's getting 11 or 12

 

Tkachuk is an interesting case .. we have to qualify at 9.. he can then go Ufa next year .but he's coming off a career year..a year that before that many said he wasn't worth the 9..but hes redeemed that..if he signs the offer he has to do it again . Could get injured , many factors could derail that ..

His brother signed a 7x8.2.. I think you get Matthew long term over 8 with a number between 8 and 9.5..  all told you can get them both for about 20 

 

I love that word is BT is going to work on both of them right away .. these both need to be done before UFA .. ideally before draft.. too many roster decisions hinge on those 2 numbers 

 

Ya I felt Giordano took a bit less money... Maybe the Flames can dangle captaincy over Tkachuk's head to sign him to $9.5-mil x 8-years.  I just feel he's not going to take a discount.

 

Also, Johnny felt he took less money last time around.  I doubt he will do so again.  It's going to be tough negotiations for both of our top players.

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1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I don't think it will.. if his preference is Calgary, and it sounds like it is. The $ and term is the only discussion. Everybody knows the comparables on both sides . They aren't starting discussions from scratch here .. and BT will stress and Johnny will agree , the quicker the better this gets done 

If it goes to Ufa ? That's an indication that Calgary is not his first choice 

Doing a deal right now just doesn't make financial sense for Gaudreau. Right now the only GM the Gaudreau camp have ever dealt with is BT. Like it or not, there's tampering in the weeks leading up to UFA. By waiting, it drives up the price for the player as other teams will reach out to him

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16 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Doing a deal right now just doesn't make financial sense for Gaudreau. Right now the only GM the Gaudreau camp have ever dealt with is BT. Like it or not, there's tampering in the weeks leading up to UFA. By waiting, it drives up the price for the player as other teams will reach out to him

I get what you're saying . But that's also making an assumption that he's trying to squeeze max dollar in a bidding war..

The league is littered with players like Stamkos , RNH, and others ..who took good fair money to stay where they wanted to be when higher money was on the table somehwere .. even Tavares turned down less money from San Jose to go to Toronto.

 

 

I'm not saying he takes a hometown discount , he and his agent know exactly what fair value is right now ..if his desire is to be in Calgary they don't need the bidding war.they have All the data and Intel already they need 

 

I think Panarin is a great comparable..he's 11.6 x 7..  that's about 10.2 over 8

 

Assuming he loves Calgary..and he seems to.. is another  even 1+ mill a year worth it to set yourself back likely 2-3 years cup window , minimum , just to be closer to home and make more?  Cuz that's what teams supposedly favourite like Philly and new jersey have to offer 

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49 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

*If* Arizona is looking for D to replace Chychrun’s departure, why not offer them both Valimaki and Kylington for Chyc?
Or, Hanifin and one of those two players?

Or maybe even Mony plus one of those 2 players?

We definitely need to shore up D and I think Chyc could give us a different look on our PP.

 

ARZ was asking for the moon and nobody would pay the price so I assume they weren't serious about trading Chychrun.  They were just trying to hit a homerun.  My guess is he's not truly available unless we blow them out of the waters with an offer.

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2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I get what you're saying . But that's also making an assumption that he's trying to squeeze max dollar in a bidding war..

The league is littered with players like Stamkos , RNH, and others ..who took good fair money to stay where they wanted to be when higher money was on the table somehwere .. even Tavares turned down less money from San Jose to go to Toronto.

 

 

I'm not saying he takes a hometown discount , he and his agent know exactly what fair value is right now ..if his desire is to be in Calgary they don't need the bidding war.they have All the data and Intel already they need 

It's possible he takes less. But I look at it as a player that's been underpaid for the majority of his career. If he wants to be paid like a top 10 player, it's well within his rights.

 

Stamkos did test the free agent market, TOR, BUF, DET were involved. Tampa was able to use their tax situation to keep his cap hit down. If this takes until July 13, it doesn't mean Gaudreau is gone, he may just want to see out there and maybe he determines CGY is the best fit

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19 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Doing a deal right now just doesn't make financial sense for Gaudreau. Right now the only GM the Gaudreau camp have ever dealt with is BT. Like it or not, there's tampering in the weeks leading up to UFA. By waiting, it drives up the price for the player as other teams will reach out to him

 

We just have to not lowball him and he has no reason to look elsewhere.  Johnny can look up capfriendly to see that only teams like BUF and ARZ can offer Gaudreau $12-mil+ but he will never win again in those places.  The teams he wants to go to are capped out.  PHI, NYR, NYI, WSH, BOS, etc just cannot make a $10-mil offer.  NJ possible but they have to let go of one or two of their young depth to do it.

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1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

Regarding your Toffoli comment, I definitely hailed his acquisition and while I fully agree he underwhelmed, I’d sooner ship Chucky out for an incredible return (because tying up $8-$10m in cap space for him alone is just unfathomable and irresponsible to me) and I’d have Toff move up to line 1 in his place at less than half the cost. Let’s be honest here, any player that plays with Johnny and Lindy is going to get an offensive bump - but Toff has finishing skills that are above the average player. This of course shows that Gaudreau is priority 1 to me and following that we should be looking at D and the C position before entertaining a Chucky contract. 

 

Thing for me is even on the top PP, Toffoli looked out of place.  Looked like he didn't belong.  I'm not feeling good about him returning and he has potential to be a buyout candidate by the same time next year due to a nightmare season.  We should trade him while he still has value.

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