Darryl Sutter new head coach

[tmac70]

The issue is we had a poorly constructed team with a bad coach, fast forward and you have a qualified coach and poorly constructed roster the results are not going to change. If you listen to Sutter do his presser this is an overall assesment of the team. the work ethic is not there, they cant play 60 minutes cause they are not in condition, mentally soft, wrong players and ok was a satisfactory standard with this organization, they cant execute at high speed. So the GM and former coach belived this club could and was ready to contend. So based off the comments by Sutter this club is no where ready or capable, so eho is responsible? 

[cross16]

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

[rickross]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

Sutter did say 1 of the reason he came back was because he thought we already had the right pieces in place, he just wanted to change their “style of play”. I think Sutter has learned quickly what he actually has in this roster and it’s clearly not enough. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

 

while I do believe we have or had some blinders on how this roster is constructed, I believe it is poorly constructed. In the end, it doesn’t really matter how it is constructed if the players are a bunch of “no-shows.” Since they are a bunch of “no-shows” makes it a poorly constructed roster. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

 

He didn't manage to run us down into the #1 pick overall.   He's back to finish the job.

 

Kek

[rickross]

So what’s the verdict at this point? Was hiring Sutter the right move?

[Heartbreaker]

4 minutes ago, rickross said:

So what’s the verdict at this point? Was hiring Sutter the right move?

 

In my opinion, it was never the right move. It also doesn't feel like a Treliving decision. I'm afraid that we're probably in for a very frustrating few years.

I really hope that I'm wrong about that.

Love.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

In my opinion, it was never the right move. It also doesn't feel like a Treliving decision. I'm afraid that we're probably in for a very frustrating few years.

I really hope that I'm wrong about that.

Love.

 

I feel the exact same way. 

 

Hopefully we are wrong but i've never felt more pessimistic about the Flames. This is more frustrating for me than the tail end of the Iginla era. 

[tmac70]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:50 AM, cross16 said:

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

Just seen this. Sutter is the right guy for the position, just the wrong guy for this group. In all actuallity,  there is no right coach for this group  Sutter was brought in for 2 reasons to turn the culture around and do an assesment of the club.  We all speculated that this club was soft mentally and had a culture problem, which I would say has been confirmed. What also has been confirmed is the there is a lot of LOFT on this club, lots. To play up tempo fast hockey is great if you have the players to do so, we can't if the opposition plays a pressure game, known fact. Pressure clubs kill us, However, get killed by teams that have the skill to play around and faster than the pressure. The Flames have neither. We are not a highly skilled team and we are not a good skating team, those are facts. This is why we constantly see JG, Bennett or Chucky try to dance through 3 players. 

 

Now is this whole roster crap no, but for the most part if you want to play, high tempo, fast skilled hockey or dump and chase we need an over haul. This club has attributtes and accessories we don't have the crowning jewels to push this to the next level. Long winded IMHO this club can not be retooled it needs to be rebuilt with a new indivdual running the rebuild. If I am not mistaken I beleive Rutherford is seeking a position, has the pedigree moixe and intelligenace to rebuild us a formatable club. I still stand by the removal of Trevling, he has not been capable of creating the club required to get to the next level. To me this club is no different than the Coyetes, average to below average at best. 

 

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I feel the exact same way. 

 

Hopefully we are wrong but i've never felt more pessimistic about the Flames. This is more frustrating for me than the tail end of the Iginla era. 

My frustration is equal, but I'm okay with Sutter.

Peter's left the Canes and they became likely the most disciplined team in the league.

Sutter has credibility, our coaches since his last departure don't. In Bennett's Instagram interview he said he liked Sutter and thinks he's similar to Quenneville.

The blaming coach game ends here.

Sutter's job, for me, is just teach these guys to compete at the NHL level. 

But he's hardly going to accomplish it overnight, lots to fix.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

My frustration is equal, but I'm okay with Sutter.

Peter's left the Canes and they became likely the most disciplined team in the league.

Sutter has credibility, our coaches since his last departure don't. In Bennett's Instagram interview he said he liked Sutter and thinks he's similar to Quenneville.

The blaming coach game ends here.

Sutter's job, for me, is just teach these guys to compete at the NHL level. 

But he's hardly going to accomplish it overnight, lots to fix.

 

 

And just to be clear I am not blaming Sutter. I don't like some of what he is doing but you will never 100% agree with a coach.

 

I think Sutter is a very good coach and a master motivator but I didn't like the hire for 2 reasons. 1 - his style of game is a poor fit for how this roster is currently constructed so if the idea is to win  now I don't think they can get the roster to his liking in the short term. 2 - Big picture the Flames lack the high end talent compete with other teams, they need that franchise player and really  need that franchise center. It's very challenging to get that unless you draft it and the strength of the next 2 drafts aligns very well with that. So for me they should be doing a rebuild to get those franchise pieces, and I don't think Sutter will go for that nor will he let his teams play poorly enough to accomplish it. 

 

So not really frustrated with Sutter more the circumstances around  brining him in. 

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

And just to be clear I am not blaming Sutter. I don't like some of what he is doing but you will never 100% agree with a coach.

 

I think Sutter is a very good coach and a master motivator but I didn't like the hire for 2 reasons. 1 - his style of game is a poor fit for how this roster is currently constructed so if the idea is to win  now I don't think they can get the roster to his liking in the short term. 2 - Big picture the Flames lack the high end talent compete with other teams, they need that franchise player and really  need that franchise center. It's very challenging to get that unless you draft it and the strength of the next 2 drafts aligns very well with that. So for me they should be doing a rebuild to get those franchise pieces, and I don't think Sutter will go for that nor will he let his teams play poorly enough to accomplish it. 

 

So not really frustrated with Sutter more the circumstances around  brining him in. 

We're not arguing at all.

I'm just happy to put the last nail in the coffin of blaming everything but the players.

Gaudreau's 2011 draft class, swap Granlund for Kucherov and Wotherspoon for Trochek. The 2011 line.

Why not dream when it's in the Satoshi Nakamototer..😂

[robrob74]

45 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We're not arguing at all.

I'm just happy to put the last nail in the coffin of blaming everything but the players.

Gaudreau's 2011 draft class, swap Granlund for Kucherov and Wotherspoon for Trochek. The 2011 line.

Why not dream when it's in the Satoshi Nakamototer..😂

 

 

It's why I am like, "If Kucherov was high on your list like you say he was, WTF did you not draft him?" 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

It's why I am like, "If Kucherov was high on your list like you say he was, WTF did you not draft him?" 

 

Nobody will ever understand that one TBH.

Not so much that they didn't have him on their list, just that they picked two lesser talents first (Granlund and Wotherspoon).

One might think they looked at Granny's brother and though he must be as good (wasn't even close when drafted).

In Granny's draft +1 he posted similar number, on the same team his brother played.

But that was after he was drafted.

No excuse for Wotherspoon, though they had scouted Baertschi a lot that season.

 

They had two picks in the 2nd round and still picked marginal players.

[cross16]

18 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

It's why I am like, "If Kucherov was high on your list like you say he was, WTF did you not draft him?" 

 

Doesn't excuse it but at the time of the draft Kucherov was under contract to his Russian club team and it was not known if he every planned on coming over. Given the lack of the transfer agreement the risk was if you took him you would never see him, which is why the Flames didn't rank him they put him on a wild card list. 

 

Can argue how much risk you want to take in the 2nd round, but i'm not sure it's a flawed decision process if you weren't confident of ever getting him over. 

[cross16]

21 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Just seen this. Sutter is the right guy for the position, just the wrong guy for this group. In all actuallity,  there is no right coach for this group  Sutter was brought in for 2 reasons to turn the culture around and do an assesment of the club.  We all speculated that this club was soft mentally and had a culture problem, which I would say has been confirmed. What also has been confirmed is the there is a lot of LOFT on this club, lots. To play up tempo fast hockey is great if you have the players to do so, we can't if the opposition plays a pressure game, known fact. Pressure clubs kill us, However, get killed by teams that have the skill to play around and faster than the pressure. The Flames have neither. We are not a highly skilled team and we are not a good skating team, those are facts. This is why we constantly see JG, Bennett or Chucky try to dance through 3 players. 

 

Now is this whole roster crap no, but for the most part if you want to play, high tempo, fast skilled hockey or dump and chase we need an over haul. This club has attributtes and accessories we don't have the crowning jewels to push this to the next level. Long winded IMHO this club can not be retooled it needs to be rebuilt with a new indivdual running the rebuild. If I am not mistaken I beleive Rutherford is seeking a position, has the pedigree moixe and intelligenace to rebuild us a formatable club. I still stand by the removal of Trevling, he has not been capable of creating the club required to get to the next level. To me this club is no different than the Coyetes, average to below average at best. 

 

 

 

I think this should be considered, if you want to replace Trelving are they really going to get a better option? 

 

Rutherford? I know most will response "he's got 3 cups" and assume he's a great GM but I would take a look at his history in Carolina and Pittsburg. What he did, is hardly impressive. There really aren't many good options out there right now if you want someone with experience. 

[pikey7883]

On 4/20/2021 at 3:32 PM, tmac70 said:

Just seen this. Sutter is the right guy for the position, just the wrong guy for this group. In all actuallity,  there is no right coach for this group  Sutter was brought in for 2 reasons to turn the culture around and do an assesment of the club.  We all speculated that this club was soft mentally and had a culture problem, which I would say has been confirmed. What also has been confirmed is the there is a lot of LOFT on this club, lots. To play up tempo fast hockey is great if you have the players to do so, we can't if the opposition plays a pressure game, known fact. Pressure clubs kill us, However, get killed by teams that have the skill to play around and faster than the pressure. The Flames have neither. We are not a highly skilled team and we are not a good skating team, those are facts. This is why we constantly see JG, Bennett or Chucky try to dance through 3 players. 

 

Now is this whole roster crap no, but for the most part if you want to play, high tempo, fast skilled hockey or dump and chase we need an over haul. This club has attributtes and accessories we don't have the crowning jewels to push this to the next level. Long winded IMHO this club can not be retooled it needs to be rebuilt with a new indivdual running the rebuild. If I am not mistaken I beleive Rutherford is seeking a position, has the pedigree moixe and intelligenace to rebuild us a formatable club. I still stand by the removal of Trevling, he has not been capable of creating the club required to get to the next level. To me this club is no different than the Coyetes, average to below average at best. 

 

 

I never even thought of Rutherford, I’ve heard lots of interviews and responses from Mike Futa recently, and have wondered if they would bring him in maybe as President of hockey ops. I’m not totally done with BT (although I’m happy with what he got for Benny, I am not happy with the decision, which is causing me to unfriend BT currently, lol). But I think that Futa was part of LA when Sutter was there, and I like the way he thinks the game and breaks down the game. 
 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think this should be considered, if you want to replace Trelving are they really going to get a better option? 

 

Rutherford? I know most will response "he's got 3 cups" and assume he's a great GM but I would take a look at his history in Carolina and Pittsburg. What he did, is hardly impressive. There really aren't many good options out there right now if you want someone with experience. 

 

35 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I never even thought of Rutherford, I’ve heard lots of interviews and responses from Mike Futa recently, and have wondered if they would bring him in maybe as President of hockey ops. I’m not totally done with BT (although I’m happy with what he got for Benny, I am not happy with the decision, which is causing me to unfriend BT currently, lol). But I think that Futa was part of LA when Sutter was there, and I like the way he thinks the game and breaks down the game. 
 

 

I would be as worried of what JR would do the same way I worried about Burkie being the POHO here.

Does it help or hurt to have a hockey guys telling the GM what he should do.

JR scares me.

For the good things he's done, he has others that are WTF.

 

[travel_dude]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:32 PM, tmac70 said:

Just seen this. Sutter is the right guy for the position, just the wrong guy for this group. In all actuallity,  there is no right coach for this group  Sutter was brought in for 2 reasons to turn the culture around and do an assesment of the club.  We all speculated that this club was soft mentally and had a culture problem, which I would say has been confirmed. What also has been confirmed is the there is a lot of LOFT on this club, lots. To play up tempo fast hockey is great if you have the players to do so, we can't if the opposition plays a pressure game, known fact. Pressure clubs kill us, However, get killed by teams that have the skill to play around and faster than the pressure. The Flames have neither. We are not a highly skilled team and we are not a good skating team, those are facts. This is why we constantly see JG, Bennett or Chucky try to dance through 3 players. 

 

Now is this whole roster crap no, but for the most part if you want to play, high tempo, fast skilled hockey or dump and chase we need an over haul. This club has attributtes and accessories we don't have the crowning jewels to push this to the next level. Long winded IMHO this club can not be retooled it needs to be rebuilt with a new indivdual running the rebuild. If I am not mistaken I beleive Rutherford is seeking a position, has the pedigree moixe and intelligenace to rebuild us a formatable club. I still stand by the removal of Trevling, he has not been capable of creating the club required to get to the next level. To me this club is no different than the Coyetes, average to below average at best. 

 

 

 

I think the real reason he was brought was to turn the team into a winner.

What is the point of doing an ssessment if the end result is a tear down that will never happen?

It won't.

We have players that are getting in the way of winning.

But we can't get past that in the middle of a season.

It persisted last year and was exposed in the playoffs with poor coaching.

I have no doubt we would have had a better showing against Dallas with Sutter.

Not a contender, but a better showing.

 

That leads me to believe some tough decisions need to be made.

Pointing to Gaudreau (not you specifically) and saying he needs to go is too easy.

We lack a true #1C, but trading Monahan away because he wasn't the best in the playoffs may not be the answer.

Gio struggled without Brodie, but is it the end of an era or the need to manage the end better by dropping him to 14 minutes a night.

Backlund was good in a shutdown role with certain players, but we aren't using that.

Is this year's Backlund the real thing or from usage.

We talked about running two goalies yet we overplayed like every year before this.

End result, injured and less than great.

Ruin Rittich in the process.

No real 4th line, no real shutdown line, 1st and 2nd lines have spare parts.

Tkachuk struggling.

Defense looking worse this year more than others.

Sutter may do an assessment, but I'm not sure he has those answers.

[tmac70]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think this should be considered, if you want to replace Trelving are they really going to get a better option? 

 

Rutherford? I know most will response "he's got 3 cups" and assume he's a great GM but I would take a look at his history in Carolina and Pittsburg. What he did, is hardly impressive. There really aren't many good options out there right now if you want someone with experience. 

Fair enough. Tre has been at this for awhile and really one has to be brtually honest the team he has assembled is average or below average at best. He came in at the start of a rebuild, Made the playoffs with a coach he wanted to get rid of. Then over estimated and got excited on false optimisim of being a contender when it was to premature. Has a very poor record of developing, ruined the highest draft choice we had only to trade off for scraps. Tossed 1st off for poor fits or traded top plyers off as not a fit in the room when it appears the room is the problem. Signed terrible UFA's on and on. Under performing or not this club is in very poor condition, the prospect pool is depleted especially defense and right wing. We have not one franchise player and a ton of 3rd line forwards. If chucky is your franchise player this club is in a world of trouble

[conundrumed]

What I like about Sutter is his soundbites.

On their own they can be taken however.

Put them all together:

Don't play an NHL pace.

Too many boneheads not getting skating off the hop.

We won't always have a lead.

You're not passing the puck into the net...

 

He's saying what most here have said, I believe. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/darryl-sutter-recent-play-flames-playoff-race/

 

Perspective.  Fairly open in his comments, but nothing groundbreaking.

One thing he mentioned was conditioning.  Was talking about conditioning happening during practice, but he basically said that players need to train for 100 games a year, and if they aren't at the 100 game level, it's too late.  Mentions Backlund, Gio and Tanev at leading the work at practices, but I believe it was about getting players to buy into the pace at practice. 

 

Mentions that you just need to look at players 82 game pace for scoring and you see which are struggling the most.  

 

Mentions that Monahan is busting his tail.  Gaudreau has played well since the line switch except for the Ottawa game.  

 

His post game comments are more to the point.  Shows what he saw before he thinks twice about it.  As A coach, I think he just recognizes that we don't have enough scoring to take over games.  We have to score more than 1 or 2, so those low scoring games rely too much on being perfect.

[Thebrewcrew]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/darryl-sutter-recent-play-flames-playoff-race/

 

 

Mentions that you just need to look at players 82 game pace for scoring and you see which are struggling the most.  

 

 

Just looking at some stats based on an 82 game season, here's what some key Flames are on pace for over the course of a full season.

 

Lindholm 71pts

Gaudreau 60pts

Tkachuk 55pts

Backlund 50pts

Monahan 47pts

Giordano 42pts

Mangiapane 40pts

Dube 31 pts.

 

Out of the players I listed, the only individuals having career years are Mang and Dube. Makes sense since they are young players. 

 

Lindholm having a solid season as a full time C.

Gaudreau would have the lowest point total of his career.

Monahan his lowest since his rookie season.

Tkachuk, in his 5th year would have his 3rd highest or lowest point total. Glass half full or half empty?

Gio with a bit of a bounceback season on the scoresheet

Backlund on pace for his 2nd best offensive year

 

 

 

 

 

[Heartbreaker]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Just looking at some stats based on an 82 game season, here's what some key Flames are on pace for over the course of a full season.

 

Lindholm 71pts

Gaudreau 60pts

Tkachuk 55pts

Backlund 50pts

Monahan 47pts

Giordano 42pts

Mangiapane 40pts

Dube 31 pts.

 

Out of the players I listed, the only individuals having career years are Mang and Dube. Makes sense since they are young players. 

 

Lindholm having a solid season as a full time C.

Gaudreau would have the lowest point total of his career.

Monahan his lowest since his rookie season.

Tkachuk, in his 5th year would have his 3rd highest or lowest point total. Glass half full or half empty?

Gio with a bit of a bounceback season on the scoresheet

Backlund on pace for his 2nd best offensive year

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am glad you posted this. I have been thinking about this for a little while, and I have noticed that there is a lot of talk on the board about the '18/'19 season being an aberration. Maybe that's true, but it's also possible that this season is an aberration. The reality is that they should fall somewhere in between this year, and that year. You can't expect players to have career years every year, but some of our best and most important players are having a well below average season. There could be a number of factors that contribute to this. I don't think that the Flames should, but they could come back next year with the same team, and I would anticipate a better result.

Love.

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I am glad you posted this. I have been thinking about this for a little while, and I have noticed that there is a lot of talk on the board about the '18/'19 season being an aberration. Maybe that's true, but it's also possible that this season is an aberration. The reality is that they should fall somewhere in between this year, and that year. You can't expect players to have career years every year, but some of our best and most important players are having a well below average season. There could be a number of factors that contribute to this. I don't think that the Flames should, but they could come back next year with the same team, and I would anticipate a better result.

Love.

Both are probably true.  The issue with this group I think is the lack of high end talent, in a normal year where you only play most teams 2 or 3 times in a season, this year it has been 2-4 times in a row and 9 and 10 times overall the other teams have adjusted to our group.  I don't believe Johnny will get another 99 point season as a Flame or Mony will get another 82 point season as a Flame, but I still believe he can get back to being a 30 goal scorer, and that Tkachuk can be more than a 55 point guy.  The biggest player to watch is Tkachuk, another down year and he has a lot of power in negotiating either a very bad long term deal or taking the QO and walking after, which will give a hit to his trade value.