Darryl Sutter new head coach

[cross16]

A ton of good there but also a red flag for me. When this team exploded offensively under Peters is was because they were lethal off the rush and counter attack. As a heavy forecheck team 3 different coaches have now tried and failed to consistently generate offense with this group. Really going to need several players to change their mindset and style. 
 

not saying it can’t be done and if you improve defensively, especially with Markstrom, you can win a ton of games if it’s just something I’m really going to keep my eye on. 

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There was one breakout I saw that I really liked.  I didn't see it in the videos above (may have missed it), but I think it was Ryan that skated into the neutral zone diagonally and the D hit him in stride.  Middle of the ice.  It split the ice.  Can't remember the outcome but it was a zone entry.

 

I detest the 1-2-2 forecheck.  I'm okay with a modified 1-2-2 to 2-1-2 or whatever, as it forces the other team to rush the pass.  

 

Gaudreau needs to use his speed effectively.  If he's the one constantly holding onto the puck on a zone entry, his options are limited to what the other guys are doing.  He can catch other teams asleep if he is not always the one starting a rush.  Don't abandon the zone if we don't have the puck control, but get open.  Use the ice to your advantage.  And start attacking the net instead of nothing shots from crazy angles.  Once, sure.  Not every bleeping time.  He's got a deadly shot and he should take the puck to the net when he can.  It's going to set up 2nd chances for the 2 foot guys.  Or it draws a penalty.  

 

I would be parking Tkachuk a foot outside the crease on the PP.  Let Monahan cover the other areas like the slot or taking the puck behind the net.  Tkachuk is losing too many battles there because other teams know the butt check is coming.

 

I don’t mind a forecheck, or a dump in as I was finding the neutral zone way too perplexing the last 3-4 years. That will definitely help the goalies’ stats as a lot of goals are generated off of our turnovers. I don’t mind carrying it in if they’re able to clean up those turnovers and not trying to be too pretty. 

[cross16]

A 1-2-2 does not have to be passive nor is it the trap. Sutters 1-2-2 is aggressive unless it’s late in games. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t mind a forecheck, or a dump in as I was finding the neutral zone way too perplexing the last 3-4 years. That will definitely help the goalies’ stats as a lot of goals are generated off of our turnovers. I don’t mind carrying it in if they’re able to clean up those turnovers and not trying to be too pretty. 

 

I'm with you about N zone.

I hated it before.

I blamed a lot of it on Gio and Hamonic.

Maybe it wasn't them?

Funny how a coaching change has changed the way they play without altering the systems used.

[MP5029]

Well so far, Sutter goer is best move BT has made and that includes the awesomeness of the Hanifin and Lindholm trade..solid move BT this saved typurnjob no doubt but I will say I didn’t see it coming but super solid call!!!

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

A 1-2-2 does not have to be passive nor is it the trap. Sutters 1-2-2 is aggressive unless it’s late in games. 

 

honestly! The best game i ever saw live was game 7 when Minnesota knocked out Vancouver. Minny played their game to perfection and it was a beautiful thing to watch. They were down something like 3-1 and came back and won 5-3. But I can get behind a team that plays their system right. It’s boring when your team can’t generate against the team playing that system.

[Addicted]

In an interview a couple years ago about the Oiler hiring Ken Hitchcock, Drew Remenda commented that the team would win the next couple games and attributed it to the “dead cat bounce”. He claimed most teams win the next couple games under a new head coach, but it’s the results after 6 games that matter. 
 

I love Dutter and think this was a great move, but I don’t think he is that much of a genius to have solely turned this team around so drastically in a week. There are some obvious changes that have helped, but the biggest change is the effort from the players. 
 

By all accounts Dutter is a master motivator and will find a way to keep these guy playing hard, but once the shine of a new coach wears off and things get tough (hard practises, reduced ice, benching, etc), the real story will be told as to whether this core will keep working. 
 

I for one think that they will, but I’m not anointing them fixed based on two games. 
 

in the meantime, I love what I’m seeing and it shows just what this team is capable of if the effort is put in!

[Thebrewcrew]

12 minutes ago, Addicted said:

In an interview a couple years ago about the Oiler hiring Ken Hitchcock, Drew Remenda commented that the team would win the next couple games and attributed it to the “dead cat bounce”. He claimed most teams win the next couple games under a new head coach, but it’s the results after 6 games that matter. 
 

I love Dutter and think this was a great move, but I don’t think he is that much of a genius to have solely turned this team around so drastically in a week. There are some obvious changes that have helped, but the biggest change is the effort from the players. 
 

By all accounts Dutter is a master motivator and will find a way to keep these guy playing hard, but once the shine of a new coach wears off and things get tough (hard practises, reduced ice, benching, etc), the real story will be told as to whether this core will keep working. 
 

I for one think that they will, but I’m not anointing them fixed based on two games. 
 

in the meantime, I love what I’m seeing and it shows just what this team is capable of if the effort is put in!

I agree. Good for the Flames, they needed 4pts against MTL and they got it done.

 

However, like you said, most teams get a shot in the arm from a coaching change. Heck, even last years Flames team went on a run when Ward became coach.

 

By the end of the month, we will have a good idea of if the coaching change worked. Right now there's still that "new car smell" with Sutter, it's still fresh and new for the players. But he grinds on guys, will we see the same level of effort 10 games from now? 

[cross16]

I also agree. The biggest difference between Ward and Sutter so far is the work ethic of the team. Little has changed schematically or systems wise and while Sutter is emphasizing pace I also don’t believe for a second Ward was telling the team to play slow. 
 

Im not vouching for Ward I’m just saying the immediate results are more due to worth ethic change than the coach. The test is yet to come. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I agree. Good for the Flames, they needed 4pts against MTL and they got it done.

 

However, like you said, most teams get a shot in the arm from a coaching change. Heck, even last years Flames team went on a run when Ward became coach.

 

By the end of the month, we will have a good idea of if the coaching change worked. Right now there's still that "new car smell" with Sutter, it's still fresh and new for the players. But he grinds on guys, will we see the same level of effort 10 games from now? 

 

With Ward as the new coach, they had a winning record to finish the year.

So, a coaching change in Calgary mostly has really positive results.

 

I'm less concerned with the coach wearing on players.  They had success playing a certain style.  The changes are not dramatic but have resulted in less chances against.  The goalie didn't have to save their bacon all night.  They did the things they had complained about not doing.  They won games where they were the better team.  The next 4 games are critical, but all of them are at this point.  They didn't fold up their tent like they have in previous years when the goaing was tough.  They gained some confidence playing against a top goalie and a team they have struggled with in the past.  

 

Let's face it, every team ahead of them is facing challenges.  EDM made hay against OTT and is less than 500 aganst the rest of the North.  Toronto is on a skid.  MTL is up and down.  WPG is on a bit of a heater, but mostly against teams below them.  I'm more confident with Sutter in charge that he can at least get consistent play out of this group.

[robrob74]

I get that it’s probably a bump in the new coach. I’d have to go back to watch games but I think I was still quite frustrated by the way the team played than what I see the way the last two games were played. 
 

i think my expectations were very low as my only hope was that they showed they cared or put in consistent effort. I wanted turnovers in our end and in the neutral zone to stop but I thought that’s just because these players do that as part of their game. I’ve always said the goalie doesn’t matter because if the team continues to giveaway the puck they can’t stop all of those great chances we give up. So I think to fix it would be effort to push the team to their end.
 

I think the biggest difference Sutter is instilling is possibly the awareness of playing clean and limiting the giveaway.  could be the effort and stopping the bad turnovers. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I also agree. The biggest difference between Ward and Sutter so far is the work ethic of the team. Little has changed schematically or systems wise and while Sutter is emphasizing pace I also don’t believe for a second Ward was telling the team to play slow. 
 

Im not vouching for Ward I’m just saying the immediate results are more due to worth ethic change than the coach. The test is yet to come. 

 

thing is though, Sutter believes the pace of the practice sets the pace in game. That’s something we saw right away, but could just be new coach effort on behalf of the players.

[rickross]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

With Ward as the new coach, they had a winning record to finish the year.

So, a coaching change in Calgary mostly has really positive results.

 

I'm less concerned with the coach wearing on players.  They had success playing a certain style.  The changes are not dramatic but have resulted in less chances against.  The goalie didn't have to save their bacon all night.  They did the things they had complained about not doing.  They won games where they were the better team.  The next 4 games are critical, but all of them are at this point.  They didn't fold up their tent like they have in previous years when the goaing was tough.  They gained some confidence playing against a top goalie and a team they have struggled with in the past.  

 

Let's face it, every team ahead of them is facing challenges.  EDM made hay against OTT and is less than 500 aganst the rest of the North.  Toronto is on a skid.  MTL is up and down.  WPG is on a bit of a heater, but mostly against teams below them.  I'm more confident with Sutter in charge that he can at least get consistent play out of this group.

Sutter has brought more stability and effectiveness to this team in short order. But it’s only 2 games in so it’s not time to crown anyone just yet. It feels a bit different with Sutter though as he’s already familiar with the organization and team so it’s not so much of a “new guy” shock. We have a number of players looking for resets or just an opportunity so  there’s an extra layer added to the motivation Sutter brings. I think this coaching change won’t see that drop off that usually follows new coaches once the excitement and lustre wears off. Sutter will make it too uncomfortable if it does so players are already on notice. Not saying Sutter has everything figured already but this coaching change feels different than the last 5 hires

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

With Ward as the new coach, they had a winning record to finish the year.

So, a coaching change in Calgary mostly has really positive results.

 

I'm less concerned with the coach wearing on players.  They had success playing a certain style.  The changes are not dramatic but have resulted in less chances against.  The goalie didn't have to save their bacon all night.  They did the things they had complained about not doing.  They won games where they were the better team.  The next 4 games are critical, but all of them are at this point.  They didn't fold up their tent like they have in previous years when the goaing was tough.  They gained some confidence playing against a top goalie and a team they have struggled with in the past.  

 

Let's face it, every team ahead of them is facing challenges.  EDM made hay against OTT and is less than 500 aganst the rest of the North.  Toronto is on a skid.  MTL is up and down.  WPG is on a bit of a heater, but mostly against teams below them.  I'm more confident with Sutter in charge that he can at least get consistent play out of this group.

 

Ward had a winning record to start and after the 7 game streak he was a .500 coach, and was since then. Maybe that’s what they are even with Sutter. 
 

I think adding playing time to the 4th will leave enough energy to end games for the top 3 lines. If they can continue to play with pace I think we have something. 
 

need a bit more from all of the lines though as a whole. Lindholm line, and the Backlund line need to pop some goals. 

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, rickross said:

Sutter has brought more stability and effectiveness to this team in short order. But it’s only 2 games in so it’s not time to crown anyone just yet. It feels a bit different with Sutter though as he’s already familiar with the organization and team so it’s not so much of a “new guy” shock. We have a number of players looking for resets or just an opportunity so  there’s an extra layer added to the motivation Sutter brings. I think this coaching change won’t see that drop off that usually follows new coaches once the excitement and lustre wears off. Sutter will make it too uncomfortable if it does so players are already on notice. Not saying Sutter has everything figured already but this coaching change feels different than the last 5 hires

 

I think the two biggest things were cleaning things up on execution and effort. So far so good!

[rickross]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think the two biggest things were cleaning things up on execution and effort. So far so good!

It’s made all the difference already. I’m curious to know what Sutter does with his staff this off-season. I think Huska and Gelinas stick around but wonder who Sutter might decide to replace. I was just saying in another thread, the difference Sutter seems to have brought is teaching the team how to win hockey games. It’s why they are playing with more purpose, structure and overall have been more effective as a team. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I also agree. The biggest difference between Ward and Sutter so far is the work ethic of the team. Little has changed schematically or systems wise and while Sutter is emphasizing pace I also don’t believe for a second Ward was telling the team to play slow. 
 

Im not vouching for Ward I’m just saying the immediate results are more due to worth ethic change than the coach. The test is yet to come. 

I dont think there will be any dead cat bounce. Some of the biggest issues people on this board has with Ward was player utilization, accountability, and  in game adaptability.  All of these will be addressed by Sutters coaching style.  No it wont be the one piece that gets you to the finals but its a big leap.

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont think there will be any dead cat bounce. Some of the biggest issues people on this board has with Ward was player utilization, accountability, and  in game adaptability.  All of these will be addressed by Sutters coaching style.  No it wont be the one piece that gets you to the finals but its a big leap.

 

I think these are very true. Some of the most perplexing things was player usage. Even under Sutter Lucic looks just as he did under Ward, but his continued work will get rewarded instead of it being gifted to him. That goes with all of the other players. Then there was the whole feel for a game thing that Sutter seems to be a master of. For years, I've said earlier, and probably sound like a broken record, has been the way it feels like we beat ourselves over the head with were the horrible turnovers that cost us. If Sutter and the team can limit those, that's half the battle there. 

 

Markstrom isn't the type to give up a bad goal every game. He's prone to it once in awhile like every goalie is, but he is far less prone than even Rittich is. And I like Rittich for the most part. Their attention to detail are what separates one from the other and I think Markstrom's attention to detail and position is phenomenal. 

 

We are going to lose some games. Let's see how we can bounce back from them. I think just cleaning up giveaways in our end and in the neutral zone will clean up a goal or two per game. That's huge!

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Ward had a winning record to start and after the 7 game streak he was a .500 coach, and was since then. Maybe that’s what they are even with Sutter. 
 

I think adding playing time to the 4th will leave enough energy to end games for the top 3 lines. If they can continue to play with pace I think we have something. 
 

need a bit more from all of the lines though as a whole. Lindholm line, and the Backlund line need to pop some goals. 

 

Overall, Ward went 25-15-3, so subtracting the first 7 games streak, he was 18-15-3.

My only point is that a coach that doesn't know how to manage games can get a winning record from this team.

Sutter likes to roll 4 lines, which is fine if you use them right.

Don't just count 1, 2, 3 then 4.

 

The next 4 are a big test.  If we can contain the big 2 players on the Oilers, hammer the D in their zone, we stand a good chance to jump up.

There should be no lack of emotion.  McD tends to draw penalties, but he is also frustrated at times and takes dumb ones.

He gets away with more than some.  I'm less concerned about Valimaki and Kylington being turnstyled by him, but they also need to be sharp.

Gio and Tanev seem to know the way to check him, as long as we don't give him time to build speed through the neutral zone.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Overall, Ward went 25-15-3, so subtracting the first 7 games streak, he was 18-15-3.

My only point is that a coach that doesn't know how to manage games can get a winning record from this team.

Sutter likes to roll 4 lines, which is fine if you use them right.

Don't just count 1, 2, 3 then 4.

 

The next 4 are a big test.  If we can contain the big 2 players on the Oilers, hammer the D in their zone, we stand a good chance to jump up.

There should be no lack of emotion.  McD tends to draw penalties, but he is also frustrated at times and takes dumb ones.

He gets away with more than some.  I'm less concerned about Valimaki and Kylington being turnstyled by him, but they also need to be sharp.

Gio and Tanev seem to know the way to check him, as long as we don't give him time to build speed through the neutral zone.

 

And that's just it, defending him before he gets the puck. If they're quick and hard on the ones with the puck before they get it to him, then they stand a better chance. I'd maybe look at how the Leafs defended him in those games they shut him out. 

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

And that's just it, defending him before he gets the puck. If they're quick and hard on the ones with the puck before they get it to him, then they stand a better chance. I'd maybe look at how the Leafs defended him in those games they shut him out. 

 

We were wnning the game in the 1st by playing fast and hard.

Had a shot lead of around 20-3 at one point IIRC.

The fights allowed them back in the game a lttle bit, especially Neal Vs Tkachuk.

I'm sure they were happy trading 5 minutes of Neal for Tkachuk.

 

Sutter described is the best period of the year, but it's not a great idea to only lead them by 1.

 

Bennett and Kylington sat in that game, so I think that with their recent results they could make a difference.

 

I think that  playing better in the O-zone (more shots) and N-zone (less free range) we match up a lot better.

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We were wnning the game in the 1st by playing fast and hard.

Had a shot lead of around 20-3 at one point IIRC.

The fights allowed them back in the game a lttle bit, especially Neal Vs Tkachuk.

I'm sure they were happy trading 5 minutes of Neal for Tkachuk.

 

Sutter described is the best period of the year, but it's not a great idea to only lead them by 1.

 

Bennett and Kylington sat in that game, so I think that with their recent results they could make a difference.

 

I think that  playing better in the O-zone (more shots) and N-zone (less free range) we match up a lot better.

 

 

So, is it a 6pm start time for me tomorrow? 7pm for you? lol 

 

Ya, I think if we can get in on them quick and get a few up on them, that will go a long way.

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

So, is it a 6pm start time for me tomorrow? 7pm for you? lol 

 

Ya, I think if we can get in on them quick and get a few up on them, that will go a long way.

 

7pm MDT, so it always depends who celebrates Daylight Savings Time.

9PM EDT.

10:30pm in Newfoundland.

 

On SN1 in case you have that channel.  It looks to be a National broadcast, after the obligatory American game.

[tmac70]

12 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I agree. Good for the Flames, they needed 4pts against MTL and they got it done.

 

However, like you said, most teams get a shot in the arm from a coaching change. Heck, even last years Flames team went on a run when Ward became coach.

 

By the end of the month, we will have a good idea of if the coaching change worked. Right now there's still that "new car smell" with Sutter, it's still fresh and new for the players. But he grinds on guys, will we see the same level of effort 10 games from now? 

Has Sutter provided a boost sure, however the feel,and vibe of this change IMHO is different. Despite the carousel of coaches, i believe the players have all been put on notice by Management and its about fricking time. The best thing Tre stated since he was hired is  Sutters  is the coach he is going here for the long term, its now on the players and they better take notice.... Sutter has flat out stated he is here to win a cup for Calgary thats why he came back, it isnt about a coaching job! name me the last coach we had made that statement. For once in a very very very long time I finally have some optimism for this organization. If anything you may see a few players unable to do this and the cream will rise to the top. Based on the 10 game time line you indicated everyone will see where or who the issues lie with in this club or your going to see a club elevate to a level we have not seen in decades

[tmac70]

11 hours ago, cross16 said:

I also agree. The biggest difference between Ward and Sutter so far is the work ethic of the team. Little has changed schematically or systems wise and while Sutter is emphasizing pace I also don’t believe for a second Ward was telling the team to play slow. 
 

Im not vouching for Ward I’m just saying the immediate results are more due to worth ethic change than the coach. The test is yet to come. 

So the change just came about just because. So really if Ward could not get them to put forth the work ethic than a cahnge was required, which even we mere fans could see he was not the person for the job. I just hope Tre stays to,his word, if the players tune out Sutter there gone, if natthing thats a message long over due