Darryl Sutter new head coach

[rickross]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a fair question.  I suspect it may be a staged recovery.  We make some strides now and if that continues into the playoffs, we don't make major changes.  We get some benefit but fail in the playoffs, we know that we have to make changes.  Probably better to approach it for now as if it's going to work.  Changes can be made over the course of the off-season.

 

 

I’m even concerned about the Flames losing this game to MTL. The expectations are high now that Sutter is here. Really goes to show how low the bar has been with our prior coaches. If Sutter loses his 1st game I worry that some of lustre and hope he brought gets deflated. Our group is fragile as is so any immediate setbacks won’t do us any favours. 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, rickross said:

I’m even concerned about the Flames losing this game to MTL. The expectations are high now that Sutter is here. Really goes to show how low the bar has been with our prior coaches. If Sutter loses his 1st game I worry that some of lustre and hope he brought gets deflated. Our group is fragile as is so any immediate setbacks won’t do us any favours. 

 

Many reasons for a loss, aren't there.  But if they play the way they are capable of playing, then a loss is much less in question.

There is going to be an adjustment for sure.

One game isn't going to sink us in the grand scheme.

Looking like we did against Ottawa would.

 

There is a big picture to look at.  Can this team change to being a team that shows up consistently.

If the answer is yes, but it takes a few games to turn that into wins, then we don't lose the players.

I think the excitement is there because the players have a chance to show that with the right coach they can be that team.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Tre has said this is on the players not Darryl if they dont turn this around it isnt on the coach like in the past

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

I highly doubt that we'd go full rebuild. There is too much talent to blow it up. It is a very different situation than in 2013 when our top prospects were Sven Baertschi, and Mark Jankowski. We had to trade our aging franchise right winger, our Vezina winning goaltender was retiring, and the only real asset that we had of much value was Jay Bouwmeester.

 

That said, there could very well be some player movement, but I don't think that you blow it up when you still have a few good seasons of a pretty good goaltender, and players like Lindholm, Tkachuk, Monohan, Gaudreau, Hanifin, and Anders Rasmussen. I think that if you flip one, or two of those guys, then you'll have retooled your team adequately.

Basically, it's no guarantee of success, but we're still a few steps away from going scorched Earth.

 

Love.

 

 

I would add Glencross to the list. He might not have been worth so much, but I think they could have gotten some value from him. I get that we needed Giordano for the rebuild, I wonder how different the team would have been if we cut ties with him sometime along those years and got something for him too. 

 

I don't see a full rebuild. I think a retool might be what's in store. It depends on whether Johnny would be willing to re-sign and possibly what you could get for him or Monahan. 

 

I am with Cross. I wish they tried someone with Johnny for the last few years. There was just no way that anyone was going to do that though. 

 

I just see it as a change in core pieces, not a full rebuild. 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Tre has said this is on the players not Darryl if they dont turn this around it isnt on the coach like in the past

 

If you can provide a list of the players that would be traded, that would help.  🙂 

 

We can speculate which players are the problem, but I think it's a little hard to say at this point.

Sutter should separate the wheat from the chaff, I suppose.

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I would add Glencross to the list. He might not have been worth so much, but I think they could have gotten some value from him. I get that we needed Giordano for the rebuild, I wonder how different the team would have been if we cut ties with him sometime along those years and got something for him too. 

 

I don't see a full rebuild. I think a retool might be what's in store. It depends on whether Johnny would be willing to re-sign and possibly what you could get for him or Monahan. 

 

I am with Cross. I wish they tried someone with Johnny for the last few years. There was just no way that anyone was going to do that though. 

 

I just see it as a change in core pieces, not a full rebuild. 

 

They did. Flipped him to Washington for a 2nd and a 3rd. 2nd was used to net Hamilton and the 3rd was used to move up and get Kylington. That quite the return for what was a 3rd line player. 

[The_People1]

30 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I would add Glencross to the list. He might not have been worth so much, but I think they could have gotten some value from him. I get that we needed Giordano for the rebuild, I wonder how different the team would have been if we cut ties with him sometime along those years and got something for him too. 

 

I don't see a full rebuild. I think a retool might be what's in store. It depends on whether Johnny would be willing to re-sign and possibly what you could get for him or Monahan. 

 

I am with Cross. I wish they tried someone with Johnny for the last few years. There was just no way that anyone was going to do that though. 

 

I just see it as a change in core pieces, not a full rebuild. 

 

100%

 

Our team is young enough that we only need to move Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, and Giordano today to compete again in two years.  Won't need scorched Earth rebuild.

[The_Tribal Chief]

im telling you what tre said i dont know the players im relaying what treliving said that this is solely on the players to fix and that Darryl isnt being blamed this time if they dont follow

[rickross]

Pretty crazy to think we’ve been stuck in a perennial rebuild since 2013. Really this franchise hasn’t gone anywhere , pretty much just swapping coaches and players but all while still running in place and getting knocked out every 1st rd they qualify for. You’d think you’d be able to chart more growth and progression but they’re not much further than they were in 2013. Markstrom helps , hopefully Sutter will too but we’ve been staring at the same results for 8 years. Atleast we’re getting a new arena...

[robrob74]

56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They did. Flipped him to Washington for a 2nd and a 3rd. 2nd was used to net Hamilton and the 3rd was used to move up and get Kylington. That quite the return for what was a 3rd line player. 

 

 

Yup! And it was a good return! I just meant right away... I don't remember how many more years he played with the team afterwards, and maybe that return was better for that time. If we got a 1st the year we started to trade, we didn't fair too well (considering) in that draft and not a lot of other teams did late either.

[tmac70]

Well I had to come poke my head back in after the news. Love the coach signing and would say its 3 years late. I have watched  caught glimpeses of games on myself induced time out. I did watch the 1st period of the Oilers game had to see what the ripple effect would be. Simply put best period of hockey from this club I have seen in 10 years,  That effort shows the capability of what we all knew these players are capable of. However it was 1 period, I heard they crapped the bed afterwards no surprise. Than caught 5 minutes of the Ottawa game and couldn't stomach anymore of that.  

 

I did listen to the interview with Tre and Darryl. I will give Tre some props for admitting we needed a coach. The postives for me is what all of us knew, the players had it easy, that falls on the GM. When you have a country club atmosphere you get a country club effort. The players pretty much admited as much. This confimed by your GM that this Satoshi Nakamotoe is about to end will send a shock wave through the players. Darryl will demand the effort the players will now have to deliver, period, problem is can they. I for one hacve said for years it you want to be a stanley cup contending team you have to play playoff hockey throughout the year, many say you can't but I call BS.  Teams that have won cups in the past have played palyoff intensity hockey from day one, its engtrained in them as a culture, expectation and the results speak volumes. 

 

Can Darryl turn this club around sure, wiill they make the playoffs, I hold tempered expectaitons on the players for that. I beilive the effort will change accountabiltiy will rise and the intesity will increase, I am not certain if its to little or to late. One thing is for certain the brand of hcokey your going to see will be worth the effort to watch...Buckle up. 

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Yup! And it was a good return! I just meant right away... I don't remember how many more years he played with the team afterwards, and maybe that return was better for that time. If we got a 1st the year we started to trade, we didn't fair too well (considering) in that draft and not a lot of other teams did late either.

 

He had a no move clause. 

 

As I recall he only gave a list of teams to the Flames at the trade deadline after being told they had no interest in re signing him. 

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Many reasons for a loss, aren't there.  But if they play the way they are capable of playing, then a loss is much less in question.

There is going to be an adjustment for sure.

One game isn't going to sink us in the grand scheme.

Looking like we did against Ottawa would.

 

There is a big picture to look at.  Can this team change to being a team that shows up consistently.

If the answer is yes, but it takes a few games to turn that into wins, then we don't lose the players.

I think the excitement is there because the players have a chance to show that with the right coach they can be that team.

Agreed 😊👍

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Well I had to come poke my head back in after the news. Love the coach signing and would say its 3 years late. I have watched  caught glimpeses of games on myself induced time out. I did watch the 1st period of the Oilers game had to see what the ripple effect would be. Simply put best period of hockey from this club I have seen in 10 years,  That effort shows the capability of what we all knew these players are capable of. However it was 1 period, I heard they crapped the bed afterwards no surprise. Than caught 5 minutes of the Ottawa game and couldn't stomach anymore of that.  

 

I did listen to the interview with Tre and Darryl. I will give Tre some props for admitting we needed a coach. The postives for me is what all of us knew, the players had it easy, that falls on the GM. When you have a country club atmosphere you get a country club effort. The players pretty much admited as much. This confimed by your GM that this Satoshi Nakamotoe is about to end will send a shock wave through the players. Darryl will demand the effort the players will now have to deliver, period, problem is can they. I for one hacve said for years it you want to be a stanley cup contending team you have to play playoff hockey throughout the year, many say you can't but I call BS.  Teams that have won cups in the past have played palyoff intensity hockey from day one, its engtrained in them as a culture, expectation and the results speak volumes. 

 

Can Darryl turn this club around sure, wiill they make the playoffs, I hold tempered expectaitons on the players for that. I beilive the effort will change accountabiltiy will rise and the intesity will increase, I am not certain if its to little or to late. One thing is for certain the brand of hcokey your going to see will be worth the effort to watch...Buckle up. 

 

 

I have thought this too. I believe the habits you form become the habits you take with you into the playoffs. I believe they way you practice is the way you play in games. I don't get to see their practices, so I am not sure how what we see on the ice is a translation of what they practice. I can only guess that the practices are like the games. 

 

I felt the responses from Tanev and Tkachuk were really telling yesterday. It made me feel bad for Ward, but at the same time, if it's the best practice they had all year then that tells you something. Plus, there were already some habits showing from last year that were player AND COACH realated. So the coach related decisions being suspect, they needed to nip it in the bud even before the season started. Was Darryl consulted in the summer? Maybe. But it was clear prior to the season that Ward should not have been hired as a coach for the team. Maybe kept on as an assistant, but not the head coach. There were many here who already saw that. 

 

I am with you though, it is tough to say whether they're willing to do what it takes to win. Right now I havent seen it. Even when they try, they're not willing. They just don't get the puck to the hard parts of the ice to get better looks for goals. Smith was obviously horrible on the side-to-side movements and was WAY behind on that first goal. Did they try to emulate that again? NOPE. Not one play in the tough area again until maybe the 3rd period... 

[robrob74]

I hope that he can switch up the PP set up a bit. 

 

I think they have had somewhere between 3-5 powerplays where Lindholm and Johnny were in their shooting positions on the wings and they scored around 3 goals when they set up like that. It looks deadly. Then they tend to go right back to their normal set up where they recieve passes in those spots and they have to wait for it to reach their forehand and by then the D and the Goalie have set up their defences. When they set up for a shooter on the one-timer the goalie doesnt have as much time. 

 

Then he needs to change the perimeter play. They set it up too often around the perimiter, and even if they get a lot of shots, they are ones the goalie can save easily. We make it easy on the team and the goalie by not getting pucks to move through the slot, or even shot from in close. Then there's no one there for rebounds either. On one of those Ottawa goals, there was a mad scramble for the puck and there were about 3 Sens there swatting at it. Even though it's an ugly goal, they're getting more than one chance off of the first attempt. 

 

When Tkachuk was with Backlund and Mangiapane, I think there was more danger in the slot area as they all seemed to use each other evenly. Every one of them are threats when attacking. It's not the same with other line set ups. 

 

Something Sutter will bring is the cleanliness in the play. He will have clear expectations and will play the players who fulfull them to the best of their abilities. If they can't they wont play. Let's hope that they can get the movement we need. 

[JTech780]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/darryl-sutters-coaching-style-flames-special-teams/

 

Another great radio hit by Kris Versteeg. The interesting part for me was the talk about the PP. In particular he talked about how Gaudreau prefers to play on his strong side, Cassie also mentioned in one of the games the Lindholm prefers playing on his strong side. What Versteeg said about needing to move their feet more if they are going to stay on their strong sides, was great.

[CheersMan]

47 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/darryl-sutters-coaching-style-flames-special-teams/

 

Another great radio hit by Kris Versteeg. The interesting part for me was the talk about the PP. In particular he talked about how Gaudreau prefers to play on his strong side, Cassie also mentioned in one of the games the Lindholm prefers playing on his strong side. What Versteeg said about needing to move their feet more if they are going to stay on their strong sides, was great.

Versteeg is a great analyst, I think he understands the game very well. He may even make a great coach one day if he so chooses.
 

Versteeg has mentioned some of the things we have been complaining about, like the drop back pass, which is the only play in our book, the puck carrier has an opening into the ozone but instead chooses to drop the puck back to JH who now has to beat all the defenders a second time, huh? Sure the play has a high rate of success but mix it up would ya! Let’s increase our success.

 

Or our PK that sits back in a box and continually shrinks it down until our goal light comes on. No legs.

 

Or our PP, playing on the outside along the boards because that’s all we can muster most times. No legs.
 

The first one is just poor coaching. The second two comes down to just being out worked on specialty teams. 
 

We changed the coach and he doesn’t tolerate being out worked so we should see an improvement in those three areas.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/darryl-sutters-coaching-style-flames-special-teams/

 

Another great radio hit by Kris Versteeg. The interesting part for me was the talk about the PP. In particular he talked about how Gaudreau prefers to play on his strong side, Cassie also mentioned in one of the games the Lindholm prefers playing on his strong side. What Versteeg said about needing to move their feet more if they are going to stay on their strong sides, was great.

 

I think he gravitates to the strong side when he gets a zone entry, as he tends to go for that side.  If it's a O-zone face off, he has options to go weak side.  But it's set for that shift or possession.  I think we've seen all kinds of versions of the two strategies.  Some night deadly, some night not.  But it seems to come with moving it quickly.  Whatever Dutter does, I hop he makes suggestions about the things they need to fix.  There are some games where we have zero PP time, but for the most part we have chances.  Going O for in a night can be the difference between a W and L.  Seen it too many times.  We heard the same thing.  Yet we see little difference.  

 

What KV said about Dutter was good to hear.  In game adjustments.  Switch things up when something isn't right.  Biggest problem with Ward was not having that understanding.  Waiting till a period was over, and in some cases the score out of hand.

 

Maybe it's best to leave Gaudreau on the strong side.  On the 2nd unit, use Mangiapane or Dube on the weak side.  Both of those guys (Dube espceially) can hit the net on a one-timer.  Seriously think they need to reserve Gio for the PK and evens.  Valimaki would be my choice.  Rangey guy with an accurate shot.  Doesn't lose many foot races.  I thought Gio played okay again OTT, but he easily could have cost us a SH goal.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think he gravitates to the strong side when he gets a zone entry, as he tends to go for that side.  If it's a O-zone face off, he has options to go weak side.  But it's set for that shift or possession.  I think we've seen all kinds of versions of the two strategies.  Some night deadly, some night not.  But it seems to come with moving it quickly.  Whatever Dutter does, I hop he makes suggestions about the things they need to fix.  There are some games where we have zero PP time, but for the most part we have chances.  Going O for in a night can be the difference between a W and L.  Seen it too many times.  We heard the same thing.  Yet we see little difference.  

 

What KV said about Dutter was good to hear.  In game adjustments.  Switch things up when something isn't right.  Biggest problem with Ward was not having that understanding.  Waiting till a period was over, and in some cases the score out of hand.

 

Maybe it's best to leave Gaudreau on the strong side.  On the 2nd unit, use Mangiapane or Dube on the weak side.  Both of those guys (Dube espceially) can hit the net on a one-timer.  Seriously think they need to reserve Gio for the PK and evens.  Valimaki would be my choice.  Rangey guy with an accurate shot.  Doesn't lose many foot races.  I thought Gio played okay again OTT, but he easily could have cost us a SH goal.

or trade up Lindholm there. Heck, even use Tkachuk there. 
 

I also the the weak side pass to weak side pass might open more lanes though. Maybe keep Lindholm back on D and pop Tkachuk or Monahan in the shooters spot. Or keep Tkachuk in front for tips and Monny for shots.

[JTech780]

https://www.nhl.com/video/sutter-120321/t-277350912/c-7774065
 
 Sent with @NHL

 

Really like way Sutter thinks the game. Having Backlund and Lucic kill the last few seconds of the PK knowing Mangiapane was coming out soon. Getting Bennett more PK time. 

 

Stressing shot volume is huge.

[JTech780]

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I think the biggest thing I felt was not happening much before was the forechecking seemed weak. Bennett could do it in the playoffs because I think he simplified his game then. Mangiapane is really good and Dube being relatively new does it. I’d say when Backlund was on they seemed to do it ok too. Maybe the biggest problem was the Gaudreau line. It’ll be nice to have more sustainable pressure and a few more chances. 
 

I think the biggest changes will be simplifying the game to limit mistakes. Can Johnny be as creative in that system? I can’t see why not, but may take some games to adapt.

 

on the breakouts, that’s how I like to play. Once the puck is clean to the winger, the other winger shoots across the center ice dot to get speed. 
 

the flames have been kind of playing slow this year. Need to speed up and tire other teams out. I don’t mind the game last game as they have to beat tired teams and they made sure of it. Skate again tonight!

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think the biggest thing I felt was not happening much before was the forechecking seemed weak. Bennett could do it in the playoffs because I think he simplified his game then. Mangiapane is really good and Dube being relatively new does it. I’d say when Backlund was on they seemed to do it ok too. Maybe the biggest problem was the Gaudreau line. It’ll be nice to have more sustainable pressure and a few more chances. 
 

I think the biggest changes will be simplifying the game to limit mistakes. Can Johnny be as creative in that system? I can’t see why not, but may take some games to adapt.

 

on the breakouts, that’s how I like to play. Once the puck is clean to the winger, the other winger shoots across the center ice dot to get speed. 
 

the flames have been kind of playing slow this year. Need to speed up and tire other teams out. I don’t mind the game last game as they have to beat tired teams and they made sure of it. Skate again tonight!

 

There was one breakout I saw that I really liked.  I didn't see it in the videos above (may have missed it), but I think it was Ryan that skated into the neutral zone diagonally and the D hit him in stride.  Middle of the ice.  It split the ice.  Can't remember the outcome but it was a zone entry.

 

I detest the 1-2-2 forecheck.  I'm okay with a modified 1-2-2 to 2-1-2 or whatever, as it forces the other team to rush the pass.  

 

Gaudreau needs to use his speed effectively.  If he's the one constantly holding onto the puck on a zone entry, his options are limited to what the other guys are doing.  He can catch other teams asleep if he is not always the one starting a rush.  Don't abandon the zone if we don't have the puck control, but get open.  Use the ice to your advantage.  And start attacking the net instead of nothing shots from crazy angles.  Once, sure.  Not every bleeping time.  He's got a deadly shot and he should take the puck to the net when he can.  It's going to set up 2nd chances for the 2 foot guys.  Or it draws a penalty.  

 

I would be parking Tkachuk a foot outside the crease on the PP.  Let Monahan cover the other areas like the slot or taking the puck behind the net.  Tkachuk is losing too many battles there because other teams know the butt check is coming.

[JTech780]

The thing that stands out to me is that the Flames had only 2 failed entries at 5v5. Such an important stat.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The thing that stands out to me is that the Flames had only 2 failed entries at 5v5. Such an important stat.

 

The exit disruptions speaks to the quality of the forecheck.

Dump ins with scoring chances at 2 is a lot to do with 2nd line not getting many chances.

Recovered dump ins speaks to the forecheck as well.