Darryl Sutter new head coach

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Sutter has to go.  Muller as well.

Cannot have the coach dictate to the GM.   BT's silence over the last few months for a guy that usually takes center of anything to do with the team is enough evidence for me.

 

Promote Huska/Love get in a better PP specialist.

 

 

I'm still reluctant to blame Sutter for all things BUT I do really like the idea of Huska/Love promotions.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Sutter has to go.  Muller as well.

Cannot have the coach dictate to the GM.   BT's silence over the last few months for a guy that usually takes center of anything to do with the team is enough evidence for me.

 

Promote Huska/Love get in a better PP specialist.

 

 

So, are you suggesting we first promote Huska to head coach and promote Love to A/Coach?

I had suggested promoting Love to NHL A/coach but Cross suggested this may be more of a downgrade, to go from AHL head coach to NHL A/coach (having little say).  Love is the resume that gets you an offer from a NHL team looking to make a big change. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm still reluctant to blame Sutter for all things BUT I do really like the idea of Huska/Love promotions.

 

Look, we are looking for a new GM.  What GM wants to just be stuck with a coaching staff, regardless of whether they played a big part in failure or not.  The GM needs the freedom to hire and fire coaches.  They normally have "their guy(s)" they want, so that they ensure success.  Anything else is a complete failure by the team.

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, are you suggesting we first promote Huska to head coach and promote Love to A/Coach?

I had suggested promoting Love to NHL A/coach but Cross suggested this may be more of a downgrade, to go from AHL head coach to NHL A/coach (having little say).  Love is the resume that gets you an offer from a NHL team looking to make a big change. 

 

Yeah this is the point I was trying to make. I think the coaches who go from AHL Head coach to NHL assistant are the ones who are looking to gain experience and round out their resume. I think running a bench is an important skill so if you have the AHL resume as the head coach I'm not sure it's furthering your career to be an NHL assistant. I think Love has the resume, or at least is fully on the path, to get himself an NHL job so I'm not sure why he'd give up running a bench/program to do so. 

 

It's too bad this is decision seems to gets framed so much as we need to hold Sutter accountable for last year. I personally don't think that's the decision at all the decision for me is 2 fold:

1- does Sutter have the right philosophy to move this team forward next year and beyond? For me that's a no

2- Is the environment, which the head coach has the most control over, positive and reading for success? for me that's a no. 

and the last wrinkle, you need to consider Love and what is his stock around the league. Is it worth losing Love to another NHL team only to fire Sutter in a few months/years?

 

For me the decision is obvious not because of what happened last year but for how the org is set up for the foreseeable future. Sutter isn't the guy and IMO the Flames have to keep Love and give him a shot. Maybe he's a flop but the resume is just too damn impressive to let him go. 

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Look, we are looking for a new GM.  What GM wants to just be stuck with a coaching staff, regardless of whether they played a big part in failure or not.  The GM needs the freedom to hire and fire coaches.  They normally have "their guy(s)" they want, so that they ensure success.  Anything else is a complete failure by the team.

 

I'm sorry.  I'm very new to saying positive things about Flames staff.

 

I guess I did it wrong.    

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yeah this is the point I was trying to make. I think the coaches who go from AHL Head coach to NHL assistant are the ones who are looking to gain experience and round out their resume. I think running a bench is an important skill so if you have the AHL resume as the head coach I'm not sure it's furthering your career to be an NHL assistant. I think Love has the resume, or at least is fully on the path, to get himself an NHL job so I'm not sure why he'd give up running a bench/program to do so. 

 

It's too bad this is decision seems to gets framed so much as we need to hold Sutter accountable for last year. I personally don't think that's the decision at all the decision for me is 2 fold:

1- does Sutter have the right philosophy to move this team forward next year and beyond? For me that's a no

2- Is the environment, which the head coach has the most control over, positive and reading for success? for me that's a no. 

and the last wrinkle, you need to consider Love and what is his stock around the league. Is it worth losing Love to another NHL team only to fire Sutter in a few months/years?

 

For me the decision is obvious not because of what happened last year but for how the org is set up for the foreseeable future. Sutter isn't the guy and IMO the Flames have to keep Love and give him a shot. Maybe he's a flop but the resume is just too damn impressive to let him go. 

 

My only real argument is that Huska went this route.

Had a good run on the Heat as head coach, then went to the Flames.

Unfortunately, we saw that the reversal was to not promote from within and to hire Sutter.

 

What I might think would work is for a new bench boss be hired (after firing Sutter) and he decides to bring in Love.  But in this climate, does that even happen now?

 

I think Sutter hired Muller, but the rest were seemingly the GM.  The owners need to give a coach the freedom to pick their staff.  None of that is likely going to happen now.

 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm sorry.  I'm very new to saying positive things about Flames staff.

 

I guess I did it wrong.    

 

Don't worry, you managed to backhanded slap Sutter in the face.

All good.

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Don't worry, you managed to backhanded slap Sutter in the face.

All good.

 

lol.  glad I could help, see you in the Oilers thread

[JTech780]

Love is the back to back winner of the AHL coach of the year. He will get plenty of interest as far as NHL head coach jobs are concerned. Huska for sure deserves a shot to be an NHL head coach as well, but at this point in time, Mitch Love would be my number one target to replace Sutter this year.

 

Saying that I am doubtful that Sutter is gone this year. Everything points to the idea that if moving on from Sutter was a possibility then Treliving probably would still be the GM.

 

If they keep Sutter around this organization is most likely in for another lost year. The room was fractured between Sutter supporters and guys who don't want to play for Sutter. If Sutter sticks around I think it will be more of the same next year.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Love is the back to back winner of the AHL coach of the year. He will get plenty of interest as far as NHL head coach jobs are concerned. Huska for sure deserves a shot to be an NHL head coach as well, but at this point in time, Mitch Love would be my number one target to replace Sutter this year.

 

Saying that I am doubtful that Sutter is gone this year. Everything points to the idea that if moving on from Sutter was a possibility then Treliving probably would still be the GM.

 

If they keep Sutter around this organization is most likely in for another lost year. The room was fractured between Sutter supporters and guys who don't want to play for Sutter. If Sutter sticks around I think it will be more of the same next year.

 

I won't disagree but I will point out I have heard rumors that ownership actually told Treliving if he came back he had the full authority to fire Sutter if he chose to do so. 

 

Rumor only though.But in reading between the lines on all of this I don't think this came down to a decision of Sutter vs Treliving. I think Treliving just wanted to move on. 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I won't disagree but I will point out I have heard rumors that ownership actually told Treliving if he came back he had the full authority to fire Sutter if he chose to do so. 

 

Rumor only though.But in reading between the lines on all of this I don't think this came down to a decision of Sutter vs Treliving. I think Treliving just wanted to move on. 

 

I would tend to agree.  More about dealing with Bean.  The toxic Sutter situation was just an added thing that made it tough to want to work there.

[robrob74]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

Bean and Maloney didn't mention Sutter in their presser but it sounds like a top down evaluation will be made so Sutter will be looked at closely as well.  Maloney mentioned exit meeting with players were a bit longer than usual this season.  If there were problems with the coach, then I think we have players who won't be afraid to speak their mind, like Kadri for example.

 

If Sutter indeed went radio silent with BT, then it's not his first time.  There were rumors Darryl and Brent did not speak to each other the entire final season together.

 

There's no way Sutter's name didn't come up multiple times in BT's final discussions with upper management.  BT leaving may have been a sign that ownership is not going to fire Sutter.  We shall see in the coming days.

I don't think that this season is the reason Brad decided to walk. He was given an offer sheet at the same time as Sutter. He turned it down. Maybe it was less than what Sutter makes and like Maloney said, BT was the type to be on the phones into midnight. 
 

hiring Sutter might have been the nail, but I think it went into the actual hiring of him and not this season. 

[JTech780]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I won't disagree but I will point out I have heard rumors that ownership actually told Treliving if he came back he had the full authority to fire Sutter if he chose to do so. 

 

Rumor only though.But in reading between the lines on all of this I don't think this came down to a decision of Sutter vs Treliving. I think Treliving just wanted to move on. 

 

That's fair, I do think he will get plenty of interviews this offseason, if he wants.

 

[tmac70]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I won't disagree but I will point out I have heard rumors that ownership actually told Treliving if he came back he had the full authority to fire Sutter if he chose to do so. 

 

Rumor only though.But in reading between the lines on all of this I don't think this came down to a decision of Sutter vs Treliving. I think Treliving just wanted to move on. 

That's what I took out of this as well. This was a Trevling decision not me VS him thing as everyone wants it to be. That said if the rumor you stated has any validity to it then it should give some relief to the Fire Sutter and all is a great crowd. IMHO Sutter isn't safe in this either, it's still early let it play out. I for one am OK with Sutter being removed if he is not willing to adapt and change or there is to much to repair.  Frankly, 100% agree Love is the best next option, Caveat though he is a hard Arse to. 

[tmac70]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

That's fair, I do think he will get plenty of interviews this offseason, if he wants.

 

What makes everyone think the reason he left was to go somewhere else? I for one think he will take some time off re set and relax this season. People tend to think he NEEDS a job.I agree he will land somewhere I just don't think there is an immediate rush to find something in the near future or does he even want to do it anymore. Everyone tends to think its all glory rainbows and puppy dogs, but that job is so demanding and taxing it would make 95% of people fold due to stress and anxiety. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

That's what I took out of this as well. This was a Trevling decision not me VS him thing as everyone wants it to be. That said if the rumor you stated has any validity to it then it should give some relief to the Fire Sutter and all is a great crowd. IMHO Sutter isn't safe in this either, it's still early let it play out. I for one am OK with Sutter being removed if he is not willing to adapt and change or there is to much to repair.  Frankly, 100% agree Love is the best next option, Caveat though he is a hard Arse to. 

 

 

I understand he is tough but i've also read that his players love playing for him. 

 

Think there is a lot of room to be as a coach in between hard arse and soft/hands off coach. The good ones in today's game find the balance between when to be tough but also be compassionate. 

[tmac70]

32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

I understand he is tough but i've also read that his players love playing for him. 

 

Think there is a lot of room to be as a coach in between hard arse and soft/hands off coach. The good ones in today's game find the balance between when to be tough but also be compassionate. 

I don't disagree, Case in point was Cassidy in Boston. On his exit meetings and interviews found that his approach was too much changed and adapted to be successful in Vegas. It's not that people can't change it's that they think there is no problem and want to change. I am by no means advocating either way for Sutter other than weighing the evidence and sifting through it all. I am pretty sure everyone could live with Sutter with how few interviews. Daryl's not stupid he is going I think he has recognized that he needs to change. The only factor left is will he and what he judged on moving forward if he stays.  

 

[jjgallow]

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