Darryl Sutter new head coach

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Personally, I think it is more about the accountability. Sutter holds the players accountable and they ultimately (in the end through their play) decide whether they get playing time or not. In the same breath they also will get the parts of the games that they can actually handle or play up for. For the life of me, I can't understand how someone can't always be up for a game? Why they need further motivation, that's how competitive a winner needs to be. The X's and O's had to be there a bit as for the longest time, we were one of the better possession teams. So what is it? 

 

I too love how candid Sutter is. He's to the point and no humming around anything. And if it's a non-factor subject, he won't answer it. 

 

Sutter touched on something we all just take for granted.  They have 9 games in 15 days.  Easy to think that a pro can be up for a game, with no motivation required.  They ain't robots.  Being a winner has nothing to do with it.  Having a horse whisperer for you to find something in you to be competitive is another story,  Throwing sticks doesn't cut it.  Having a hissy fit doesn't fix it.

 

Sutter has different expectations for different players.  If your role is play hard minutes and move forward, scoring goals is not the goal.  If scoring is the role, you do that or contribute elsewhere.  If shutdown, you do that or score if you are not getting the job done.  You do none, you don't play or lose minutes.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sutter touched on something we all just take for granted.  They have 9 games in 15 days.  Easy to think that a pro can be up for a game, with no motivation required.  They ain't robots.  Being a winner has nothing to do with it.  Having a horse whisperer for you to find something in you to be competitive is another story,  Throwing sticks doesn't cut it.  Having a hissy fit doesn't fix it.

 

Sutter has different expectations for different players.  If your role is play hard minutes and move forward, scoring goals is not the goal.  If scoring is the role, you do that or contribute elsewhere.  If shutdown, you do that or score if you are not getting the job done.  You do none, you don't play or lose minutes.

 

ya! And I still think you gotta get up for games. It’s what separates you from the winners and losers. Who gets up for the games? The winners. You’re either a winner or a loser. Sometimes the loser points skew the difference. It’s, who is setting that example for the team? Don’t let these athletes off the hook when even the lowest paid player makes more in a career than a lot do in their lifetime. 
 

that’s the difference so far this year. I get that they’re not going to have an “A” game every game, but like Sutter said, it’s what you do with the”B” game that matters. Just because you’re not at your best doesn’t mean they can’t try. It’s the no-shows I’m getting at here.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya! And I still think you gotta get up for games. It’s what separates you from the winners and losers. Who gets up for the games? The winners. You’re either a winner or a loser. Sometimes the loser points skew the difference. It’s, who is setting that example for the team? Don’t let these athletes off the hook when even the lowest paid player makes more in a career than a lot do in their lifetime. 
 

that’s the difference so far this year. I get that they’re not going to have an “A” game every game, but like Sutter said, it’s what you do with the”B” game that matters. Just because you’re not at your best doesn’t mean they can’t try. It’s the no-shows I’m getting at here.

 

The money a player makes compared to the average Joe has nothing to do with it.

Brady make what $40m a year?

A star from another sport over $100m?

It's all based on the entertainment value and deals those sports get.

Hockey probably has the hardest work out of the bunch of them.

Don't see too many baseball players taking a punch or fearing hitting a metal post traveling full speed.

 

Other than being hung over, sick or injured, you don't see many of them coasting out there.

 

Trying and being effective in trying are two different things.  I think that's where the Flames have changed under Sutter.  In the past, if you were not being effective, the coach would just move pieces around, sit the player or let them get away with it.  Now, I think Sutter is saying to them, hey you are really off, focus on doing this stuff tonight.  Or, if you can't, give the minutes elsewhere.  You can have a B game and still contribute.

 

I think we are arguing semantics.  A slow start isn't always on the players, it can be situational.  I have seen that a few games.  You get a good start and something derails it.  Or the other team is doing things and you haven't adjusted yet.

 

All opinion on my part.  I don't know.   

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The money a player makes compared to the average Joe has nothing to do with it.

Brady make what $40m a year?

A star from another sport over $100m?

It's all based on the entertainment value and deals those sports get.

Hockey probably has the hardest work out of the bunch of them.

Don't see too many baseball players taking a punch or fearing hitting a metal post traveling full speed.

 

Other than being hung over, sick or injured, you don't see many of them coasting out there.

 

Trying and being effective in trying are two different things.  I think that's where the Flames have changed under Sutter.  In the past, if you were not being effective, the coach would just move pieces around, sit the player or let them get away with it.  Now, I think Sutter is saying to them, hey you are really off, focus on doing this stuff tonight.  Or, if you can't, give the minutes elsewhere.  You can have a B game and still contribute.

 

I think we are arguing semantics.  A slow start isn't always on the players, it can be situational.  I have seen that a few games.  You get a good start and something derails it.  Or the other team is doing things and you haven't adjusted yet.

 

All opinion on my part.  I don't know.   

 

And I think this is really why we are probably agreeing, but in a round about way. Because it's what I think too. They are not being rewarded for not performing like they had in the past. And that's what I am actually getting at. Some nights, you just don't have it, but like you say, it's what you do when don't have it.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

And I think this is really why we are probably agreeing, but in a round about way. Because it's what I think too. They are not being rewarded for not performing like they had in the past. And that's what I am actually getting at. Some nights, you just don't have it, but like you say, it's what you do when don't have it.

🫖

Can't email you a tea.

Cheers.

[sak22]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The money a player makes compared to the average Joe has nothing to do with it.

Brady make what $40m a year?

A star from another sport over $100m?

It's all based on the entertainment value and deals those sports get.

Hockey probably has the hardest work out of the bunch of them.

Don't see too many baseball players taking a punch or fearing hitting a metal post traveling full speed.

 

Other than being hung over, sick or injured, you don't see many of them coasting out there.

 

Trying and being effective in trying are two different things.  I think that's where the Flames have changed under Sutter.  In the past, if you were not being effective, the coach would just move pieces around, sit the player or let them get away with it.  Now, I think Sutter is saying to them, hey you are really off, focus on doing this stuff tonight.  Or, if you can't, give the minutes elsewhere.  You can have a B game and still contribute.

 

I think we are arguing semantics.  A slow start isn't always on the players, it can be situational.  I have seen that a few games.  You get a good start and something derails it.  Or the other team is doing things and you haven't adjusted yet.

 

All opinion on my part.  I don't know.   

Ever see a defenseless pitcher get drilled by a line drive, those are some of the scariest sights you get in sports .  Ever wondered about the life of a catcher, constant foul tips, hit with bats, occasionally run over, sit in a crouch for extended periods, wearing all that gear and sitting in a crouch in 100F heat.  I hate statements like that, I watch all sports and find all can be pretty demanding physically.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Ever see a defenseless pitcher get drilled by a line drive, those are some of the scariest sights you get in sports .  Ever wondered about the life of a catcher, constant foul tips, hit with bats, occasionally run over, sit in a crouch for extended periods, wearing all that gear and sitting in a crouch in 100F heat.  I hate statements like that, I watch all sports and find all can be pretty demanding physically.

 

I'm talking about the physical punishment and chances at injury.

Every sport has risks and some of them can end careers.

In hockey, you get a stick to use as well as your fists.

Baseball has 90% inactivity with flashes of events.

No ice to lower the friction of a player sliding.

No wooden box with glass and open boards to run into.

No imperfect ice surface to worry about catching a blade in and ending up going head first into the boards.

Very little one on one fight club events.

 

The two sports with the highest number of brain injuries (major league ones) are hockey and football.  Highest number of surgeries related to sports?  Hard to say.  Football and hockey rank up there.  Baseball more on pitchers and catchers.

Heatstroke?  Football would be high up there, since baseball is team and individual play alternating.  

 

Risk/reward has hockey as one of the most, if not the most, risky pro sports considering the pay for the superstars.

[robrob74]

Just read an article that said Valamaki did a Finnish interview and was frustrated about not playing and felt he should be playing. 
 

personally, I think he should be playing. If not on the Flames, maybe in Europe. Get more games in. He should’ve been playing in Europe or the AHL last year. This is ridiculous to keep a young D out like this. 
 

I think Kylington was ready last year but didn’t do himself favours by coming to camp late…

 

but maybe I’m wrong and these guys will still develop by practicing with the big club. I dunno!

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Just read an article that said Valamaki did a Finnish interview and was frustrated about not playing and felt he should be playing. 
 

personally, I think he should be playing. If not on the Flames, maybe in Europe. Get more games in. He should’ve been playing in Europe or the AHL last year. This is ridiculous to keep a young D out like this. 
 

I think Kylington was ready last year but didn’t do himself favours by coming to camp late…

 

but maybe I’m wrong and these guys will still develop by practicing with the big club. I dunno!

 

He needs to make mistakes to learn so yes, he needs to play.  At the same time, we can't afford mistakes because we want to win the Cup.

 

Therefore trade him.  Right?  Hanifin + Valimaki + 1st for Chychrun

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

He needs to make mistakes to learn so yes, he needs to play.  At the same time, we can't afford mistakes because we want to win the Cup.

 

Therefore trade him.  Right?  Hanifin + Valimaki + 1st for Chychrun

I would do that! They could always turnaround and trade Hanifin.

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

He needs to make mistakes to learn so yes, he needs to play.  At the same time, we can't afford mistakes because we want to win the Cup.

 

Therefore trade him.  Right?  Hanifin + Valimaki + 1st for Chychrun

That's a deal I would think ARI would at least listen. I think a lot would say that's a big overpay but it's a bonafide 1D on a stellar deal at $4.6per. What they lose in a 1D they improve on depth and potential with Vali plus a first.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's a deal I would think ARI would at least listen. I think a lot would say that's a big overpay but it's a bonafide 1D on a stellar deal at $4.6per. What they lose in a 1D they improve on depth and potential with Vali plus a first.

 

It's a serious offer that solves two problems for a 1st.

We aren't structured to give Valimaki minutes properly and we can't send him down.

Hanifin has never been better than a #2/3.

The 1st is the cost of a value deal and a top player.

 

[conundrumed]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a serious offer that solves two problems for a 1st.

We aren't structured to give Valimaki minutes properly and we can't send him down.

Hanifin has never been better than a #2/3.

The 1st is the cost of a value deal and a top player.

 

Props to Peeps for checking him out, watching games, not looking at stats.

Him and Keller are the untouchable for them, imho.

So it would take a lot of prying for Chychrun. They're in total rebuild. If there was a time to pry him, it's likely now. 

If they decided to move him at tdl, it's a bidding war.

Big fan so I'm bias that he's rotting in ARI. I'd pay a steep price, no problem.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Props to Peeps for checking him out, watching games, not looking at stats.

Him and Keller are the untouchable for them, imho.

So it would take a lot of prying for Chychrun. They're in total rebuild. If there was a time to pry him, it's likely now. 

If they decided to move him at tdl, it's a bidding war.

Big fan so I'm bias that he's rotting in ARI. I'd pay a steep price, no problem.

 

I mean Monahan, Valimaki + 1st might make sense too, but I think that is much worse for us.

We would need to deal Hanifin for a C.

Hanifin to MTL for Dvorak.

 

This is becoming another extended thread.

I'll stick to Dutter talk.

COme on Darryl, get Valimaki going.

Rotting in the stands isn't doing anything for the player or his trade value.

 

[CheersMan]

Third quarter report card and DS is killing it.

But we know DS could care less about report cards.

When DS arrive back in town he said he had "unfinished business to do here" and we cheered, but now he is are making it a reality. Still a tall task ahead but I like the path DS has us on.

 

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

I love the way Darryl Coaches he holds Everyone Accountable and that is the Big key you play the system the right way or you dont play simple as that

[tmac70]

The best part of this season has been Sutter's view on things. The man is extremley smart at how to get the best from a player. He just did a presser where he mentioned that MT is 1 second faster of the wall playing RW than he is left. He made mention of the mentality of play me more so I get better attitude VS  get better than you will play more. He speaks about a maturty level for players, they all have the tools they just need to seize the position. Specifically mentioned Dube and Ruzciain in this comment.  Is he a hard coach no, it's just a hard slap of realty for a generation that has never been challenged to adversity. The old saying of when the going gets tough the tough get going stands true with Sutter. He understands that its not just one guy its 23-27 guys that are required to win.  Plus IMHO he fully understands that they all have the skill set to play in the NHL. He pushes them to find that drive, commitment and passion to be a champion. The personal trophies and status mean nothing with out that cup, thats the end goal. 

[The_People1]

I feel Sutter is a front runner for coach of the year.  The Flames had low expectations coming into the season.

 

Todd Mclellan has also done a nice job with LA Kings also considering low expectations. 

 

But maybe if the Canucks make the playoffs, then Bruce Brodreau should win because, what a turn around for the Canucks since he took over.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

The best part of this season has been Sutter's view on things. The man is extremley smart at how to get the best from a player. He just did a presser where he mentioned that MT is 1 second faster of the wall playing RW than he is left. He made mention of the mentality of play me more so I get better attitude VS  get better than you will play more. He speaks about a maturty level for players, they all have the tools they just need to seize the position. Specifically mentioned Dube and Ruzciain in this comment.  Is he a hard coach no, it's just a hard slap of realty for a generation that has never been challenged to adversity. The old saying of when the going gets tough the tough get going stands true with Sutter. He understands that its not just one guy its 23-27 guys that are required to win.  Plus IMHO he fully understands that they all have the skill set to play in the NHL. He pushes them to find that drive, commitment and passion to be a champion. The personal trophies and status mean nothing with out that cup, thats the end goal. 

 

I watched the presser as well.  Some comments:

1) Ruzicka is not on the team because he is waiver eligible.  He was back in the lineup before we got Carpenter, and had to be moved to make room for Jarnkrok and Carpenter.  Not just money but roster space.  It's kind of impossible for him to steal the C spot from either of the two guys that haven't played here. Sutter was talking more about Dube and really didn't get into it.

2) The Guadreau talk was interesting.  Didn't really compare previous season or playoffs past with today.  Just talked about what he does to win.  Uses his stick and the way he has played since the All Star break has shown he is taking his game to the next level.  The games are getting tougher, and he is getting better.  Probably won't see as much rushes and breakaways from now on and into the playoffs, but he is finding his space.  That is key.

3) Tkachuk is better coming off the boards now, becuase of his skillset and awareness.  He's elite in front of the net, but the RW board work has taken him to anew level.  

 

I do like the things he said about scoring big goals and being on the ice for those as opposed to being scored on.  Specifically at 5v5.  Three of the top guys in the NHL are all on one line.  Two guys not near the top in 5v5 play but at the top in scoring just had -4 nights.  It was a shot across the bow.  I know he thinks the Oilers have two of the best players, but that says something when he basically calls them out.  McD and Drai were on for big goals against.  Did little to prevent them.   

[robrob74]

I think Sutter said some really good things yesterday. Travel pointed out some of the things. It could have been a shot on the Oil, but I think he’s just pointing out that Johnny’s success is due to the work he puts in away from the puck and that 5vs5 stat proves it. He went on to say that it isn’t about any years in the past, that was the past, and more to do with the fact he has high hockey iq and a good stick, and using it in ways away from the play enhances when he can get back into the offensive zone. 
 

One thing I think that has changed is that if he has no play he dumps it in. He wasn’t doing that before. He’d get cornered at the blue line after a button hook. Then having Tkachuk to create room due to him being a big threat. I guess Gaudreau is basically like Marner…

 

the other interesting thing he said was Dube got to the NHL too early. He had the skill to be there, but not the maturity. He said he’d love to give the benefit of the doubt to a young player if the young player had the maturity to play. All the players at this level have the tools, he said. And his maturity hasn’t been up to the level it needs to be. I felt he was up too soon. Could he play at the level? Not consistently but sometimes. 
 

I want to see them at a Monahan (even Monahan I would have sent back to Junior again) level. Or Tkachuk… they beat the door down in a way. Although, with Monahan I would have sent back to Jr to hopefully work on his skating. He had the maturity and the iq, but maybe not the skating. He looks like he has regressed to that level again, and at that time I didn’t think he should’ve been in the NHL… I don’t know if I’d have had him play in the A after another year of Jr, but the team was so bare at the time he didn’t have to compete for a job. He was mature though… 

 

Tkachuk was ready. Playing with Backlund helped, but he was ready… 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Sutter said some really good things yesterday. Travel pointed out some of the things. It could have been a shot on the Oil, but I think he’s just pointing out that Johnny’s success is due to the work he puts in away from the puck and that 5vs5 stat proves it. He went on to say that it isn’t about any years in the past, that was the past, and more to do with the fact he has high hockey iq and a good stick, and using it in ways away from the play enhances when he can get back into the offensive zone. 
 

One thing I think that has changed is that if he has no play he dumps it in. He wasn’t doing that before. He’d get cornered at the blue line after a button hook. Then having Tkachuk to create room due to him being a big threat. I guess Gaudreau is basically like Marner…

 

the other interesting thing he said was Dube got to the NHL too early. He had the skill to be there, but not the maturity. He said he’d love to give the benefit of the doubt to a young player if the young player had the maturity to play. All the players at this level have the tools, he said. And his maturity hasn’t been up to the level it needs to be. I felt he was up too soon. Could he play at the level? Not consistently but sometimes. 
 

I want to see them at a Monahan (even Monahan I would have sent back to Junior again) level. Or Tkachuk… they beat the door down in a way. Although, with Monahan I would have sent back to Jr to hopefully work on his skating. He had the maturity and the iq, but maybe not the skating. He looks like he has regressed to that level again, and at that time I didn’t think he should’ve been in the NHL… I don’t know if I’d have had him play in the A after another year of Jr, but the team was so bare at the time he didn’t have to compete for a job. He was mature though… 

 

Tkachuk was ready. Playing with Backlund helped, but he was ready… 

 

 

I think it was a shot as much as praising the player, but that's my own opinion.  He has a high opinion of those two, but as he says, it's the biog goals and not being on for the ones against.  We get scored on in the first minute, but who comes out the next shift and ties it?  The top line.  Huge goal.  Every goal scored by the line was huge.  Not being on for ones against key.

 

One of the things I have seen is that We own the cycle with Tkachuk out there.  The big goal on Smith was a loss of possession that Johnny got back from McDavid (helped by the D).  Tkachuk went from behind the net to the right slot and bam it's in.  Johnny is thinking the game 2 plays ahead.  The Kylington goal was a perfect example.  Sprung on a partial break, he could have just put it on net.  His immediate passing option was covered.  Instead he goes for the non obvious play because he knows the D are coming in to support him.  It might be considered a blind pass, but he has a sixth sense and sees red in the corner of his eye.  Completely took the goalie and D out of the play.

 

Dube is earning his minutes.  Way it should be.  In fact, every player with 15 minutes is.  

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

I think it was a shot as much as praising the player, but that's my own opinion.  He has a high opinion of those two, but as he says, it's the biog goals and not being on for the ones against.  We get scored on in the first minute, but who comes out the next shift and ties it?  The top line.  Huge goal.  Every goal scored by the line was huge.  Not being on for ones against key.

 

One of the things I have seen is that We own the cycle with Tkachuk out there.  The big goal on Smith was a loss of possession that Johnny got back from McDavid (helped by the D).  Tkachuk went from behind the net to the right slot and bam it's in.  Johnny is thinking the game 2 plays ahead.  The Kylington goal was a perfect example.  Sprung on a partial break, he could have just put it on net.  His immediate passing option was covered.  Instead he goes for the non obvious play because he knows the D are coming in to support him.  It might be considered a blind pass, but he has a sixth sense and sees red in the corner of his eye.  Completely took the goalie and D out of the play.

 

Dube is earning his minutes.  Way it should be.  In fact, every player with 15 minutes is.  

ya, and how often did Gaudreau’s line ever cycled before adding Tkachuk?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

ya, and how often did Gaudreau’s line ever cycled before adding Tkachuk?

 

We were an attack on the rush team under BH and Gully and BP.  Fall asleep at the wheel under Wardo.  Tkachuk hasn't fit the game we play until we changed it.  Backlund was transition but not a ton of speed.  

[conundrumed]

Will Sutter be extended or be a "consultant-to-something"?

Listening to his pre-game tonight on Flames TV, the last 1:45-odd alludes to what he saw needed correction in the org.

I think maybe he signed up, came in, and kinda went...

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Will Sutter be extended or be a "consultant-to-something"?

Listening to his pre-game tonight on Flames TV, the last 1:45-odd alludes to what he saw needed correction in the org.

I think maybe he signed up, came in, and kinda went...

https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/I+_3bc1c9d2d4500a1b9f258249add7ea7f.jpg

 

Spiderman?

 

Sutter may have unfinished business.  What is that?  Avenge the 2004 loss?  WIn a cup?  Turn the Flames into perennial contenders?  Win 2 cups?  He talks like he loves the farm, but when it's hockey season, the farm runs with people he put in place.  Will he stay?  He seems to be interested as long as the team moves the right way.