Darryl Sutter new head coach

[sak22]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yeah, those GM's are such high character guys.  Firing a coach via a text message as he travels with the team.  Trading a player one day, after talking about what a face of the franchise he is previously.  Oops, forgot to tell the player.  Or a GM making a trade with a guy that has a NTC, only to come to him last minute to ask him.  

 

VAN had to wait for the coach to be released from his obligations.  That was before they could make it official.  Not talking to the old coach shows a lack of class.

Yeah that's the real world, in every walk of life people get fired in terrible ways.  My office has done some itself, but I never enjoy listening to the gossip over it, the world doesn't need to know everything inside an organization, being a fan isn't an all access pass to the lives of all involved.  Yes owners, managers and coaches do shady things, but that doesn't mean these insiders are doing god's work exposing them, its all for their own gain.  None of these guys wanted to touch the Chicago story until the full report was out, I have a hard time believing nobody knew at the time, even if they didn't know they were more concerned with being in the league and teams good graces.  

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Yeah that's the real world, in every walk of life people get fired in terrible ways.  My office has done some itself, but I never enjoy listening to the gossip over it, the world doesn't need to know everything inside an organization, being a fan isn't an all access pass to the lives of all involved.  Yes owners, managers and coaches do shady things, but that doesn't mean these insiders are doing god's work exposing them, its all for their own gain.  None of these guys wanted to touch the Chicago story until the full report was out, I have a hard time believing nobody knew at the time, even if they didn't know they were more concerned with being in the league and teams good graces.  

 

Unfortunately, it's entertainment that competes for you to spend your money on a game or a jersey or a TV package.  So, in that respect, TMZ is TSN.  Maybe a little more class, but mostly looking for clicks and ad dollars.  The average fan wants to know what trades the Flames are interested in.  That's not dirty.  That is the definition of a fan-atic.  We want to know things.  And sometimes it hurts people.  That is the downside, since there is a blurry line between information and voyeurism.  

 

Same as with journalism, there is reporting the latest vs investigative reporting.  So you have one guy from TSN (I believe he is TSN) does the investigation on WJC 2018 players.  Then you have the other end of the spectrum.  I just have a hard time believing that VAN only recently made a decision.  They had tons of time to do the right thing and talk to the coach.  

[sak22]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unfortunately, it's entertainment that competes for you to spend your money on a game or a jersey or a TV package.  So, in that respect, TMZ is TSN.  Maybe a little more class, but mostly looking for clicks and ad dollars.  The average fan wants to know what trades the Flames are interested in.  That's not dirty.  That is the definition of a fan-atic.  We want to know things.  And sometimes it hurts people.  That is the downside, since there is a blurry line between information and voyeurism.  

 

I pay for what happens on the ice, the post game media scrums have no impact on what happened that game or the next.  You hear one you hear them all, "pucks in deep", "full 60", "were/weren't moving our feet".  I guess some need it in their lives, I don't.  I don't mind speculation, its one of the reasons I come here, but I don't need to know Trelivings call history or any transcripts from them.  If Sam Bennett wanted out of here I would rather hear it from him, his representatives or the team vs. Friedman on HNIC, even if he did ask for a trade nobody really needed to know outside the team.  I think Friedman and co. share in the sleaziness' of the organizations is all I'm getting at, and I think he deserves some responsibility for what Boudreau went through last week.  That's the part of sport I don't need.  

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, sak22 said:

I pay for what happens on the ice, the post game media scrums have no impact on what happened that game or the next.  You hear one you hear them all, "pucks in deep", "full 60", "were/weren't moving our feet".  I guess some need it in their lives, I don't.  I don't mind speculation, its one of the reasons I come here, but I don't need to know Trelivings call history or any transcripts from them.  If Sam Bennett wanted out of here I would rather hear it from him, his representatives or the team vs. Friedman on HNIC, even if he did ask for a trade nobody really needed to know outside the team.  I think Friedman and co. share in the sleaziness' of the organizations is all I'm getting at, and I think he deserves some responsibility for what Boudreau went through last week.  That's the part of sport I don't need.  

I can take it a step further. From the U17 tourney, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Chycnrun, Kyrou...having scout friends...I've been around the media guys.

All I can say is Craig Button is a fantastic guy and really down to earth. The rest, well...I'll just say they act like they're the smartest guy in the room types. Particularly the ones that were never in the game.

I can barely hear what they're saying on TV because my level of disdain kicks in.

[cross16]

I also don't think it's fair to say Sutter hates young players. Sutter likes winning games, chasing division titles and winning cups. To win he believes you need to play top end defense and top end defense means limiting mistakes, and unfortunately young players tend to make more mistakes than veterans. So while some coaches would play a longer game with young players, Sutter doesn't because he feels like it isn't in the best interest of winning games right now. So if he has the option he'll go with the veteran player but that doesn't mean he hates young players, it's just he feels it's the best way for him to win. If young players can play the type of game he wants, he'll let them play it or if he has to play them he will but it really comes down to how does that player execute the game. 

 

I don't like or agree with it but with Sutter, and quite frankly most coaches, you have to accept trade offs. That's one of the biggest ones when you employ him IMO. 

[robrob74]

18 hours ago, sak22 said:

I pay for what happens on the ice, the post game media scrums have no impact on what happened that game or the next.  You hear one you hear them all, "pucks in deep", "full 60", "were/weren't moving our feet".  I guess some need it in their lives, I don't.  I don't mind speculation, its one of the reasons I come here, but I don't need to know Trelivings call history or any transcripts from them.  If Sam Bennett wanted out of here I would rather hear it from him, his representatives or the team vs. Friedman on HNIC, even if he did ask for a trade nobody really needed to know outside the team.  I think Friedman and co. share in the sleaziness' of the organizations is all I'm getting at, and I think he deserves some responsibility for what Boudreau went through last week.  That's the part of sport I don't need.  

yup! I used to love it and then I think it was after I tried to show appreciation to Bob MacKenzie where I changed my need to hear them, or it is when it started to change.

 

 

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I can take it a step further. From the U17 tourney, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Chycnrun, Kyrou...having scout friends...I've been around the media guys.

All I can say is Craig Button is a fantastic guy and really down to earth. The rest, well...I'll just say they act like they're the smartest guy in the room types. Particularly the ones that were never in the game.

I can barely hear what they're saying on TV because my level of disdain kicks in.

My dad and I waved at Bob MacKenzie once and he just rolled his eyes at us. You fry show an appreciation for someone you see on TV and all he has to do in that situation is wave and smile. 
 

I think the same thing happened with Dave Randorf in North Vancouver at a Save-On Foods. Saw him shopping and gave him a nod that I recognized him and same thing. I get that they're people, but...they're public figures.

 

Everything nowadays is so repetitive and sounds like a common script. No one is real.

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

yup! I used to love it and then I think it was after I tried to show appreciation to Bob MacKenzie where I changed my need to hear them, or it is when it started to change.

 

 

My dad and I waved at Bob MacKenzie once and he just rolled his eyes at us. You fry show an appreciation for someone you see on TV and all he has to do in that situation is wave and smile. 
 

I think the same thing happened with Dave Randorf in North Vancouver at a Save-On Foods. Saw him shopping and gave him a nod that I recognized him and same thing. I get that they're people, but...they're public figures.

 

Everything nowadays is so repetitive and sounds like a common script. No one is real.

 

There are very few "real" people in the public eye.

I like Tom Cruise as an actor but do not want to hear him talk about life or his values.

Some actually come off as the roles they play, but it's rare.

 

I listen to Friedman or others just for pure entertainment.

If there is something there interesting, I listen closer.

I roll my eyes as the petty stuff.

But the point of it all, is that people are supporting them by ad dollars.

If you don't agree with it, don't buy it.

Write the media and complain aboput it.

Change only occurs by speaking up.

 

Back to Sutter.  LOL

One observation I can agree with is that you have to balance the tough with positive.

If you are beeking off at a younger player, compliment them when they do the right thing.

Hold everyone to the same standard if you hold one.

Don't talk about feeding players more minutes if you aren't doing it.

But the big point is that what worked last year may not work this year.

 

[travel_dude]

Odd news, and I'm not even sure it's important....

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/darryl-sutter-called-into-meeting-with-flames-gm-brad-treliving?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mh&utm_content=tweet

[CheersMan]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Odd news, and I'm not even sure it's important....

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/darryl-sutter-called-into-meeting-with-flames-gm-brad-treliving?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mh&utm_content=tweet

They have meetings every day, which meeting was it, LOL.

The article was signed by "nobody".

Someone stirring up a cow paddy because their feeling are still hurt about #49 and the stat sheet.

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

They have meetings every day, which meeting was it, LOL.

The article was signed by "nobody".

Someone stirring up a cow paddy because their feeling are still hurt about #49 and the stat sheet.

 

It's important to understand that public comments about a player just getting a shot at the NHL have to be better thought out.  You saw a public admission of that in Sutter's comments after the fact.  The GM has a responsibility for PR for the team; it impacts signings and trades.  And the fans pay the bills.  

[sak22]

Its funny the difference a year makes.

 

2021 - Sutter "We don't have enough skill to play a skill game with the top teams in the league" - Fans and medias response "Duh, we just missed the playoffs and are now running it back with the same core".

 

2022 - Sutter "We don't have enough skill to play a skill game with the top teams in the league" - Fans and medias response "Oh there is tension, thats a shot a Treliving who has no extension, Sutter will replace Treliving, we're screwed".

 

Meanwhile Treliving in every year since he's been here "We're always looking for ways to improve our club".

 

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

Its funny the difference a year makes.

 

2021 - Sutter "We don't have enough skill to play a skill game with the top teams in the league" - Fans and medias response "Duh, we just missed the playoffs and are now running it back with the same core".

 

2022 - Sutter "We don't have enough skill to play a skill game with the top teams in the league" - Fans and medias response "Oh there is tension, thats a shot a Treliving who has no extension, Sutter will replace Treliving, we're screwed".

 

Meanwhile Treliving in every year since he's been here "We're always looking for ways to improve our club".

 

Some, probably most, media personalities slant Sutter because he's obstinate with them. It's kinda fun, but people follow media opinions a lot. So it's kinda sad too.

He's polarizing, so again, it's kinda fun. It's entertaining.

[sak22]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Some, probably most, media personalities slant Sutter because he's obstinate with them. It's kinda fun, but people follow media opinions a lot. So it's kinda sad too.

He's polarizing, so again, it's kinda fun. It's entertaining.

You need a Sutter and Tortarella types because for the most part the other 30 all sound the same.  Now if only 98% of the players didn't sound the same.  

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, sak22 said:

You need a Sutter and Tortarella types because for the most part the other 30 all sound the same.  Now if only 98% of the players didn't sound the same.  

 

That was the most frustrating thing about the days of Gio.

Line up three players after the game and they say the same thing.

We need to......

I was tired of it.

 

I would say the culture is better today, but I think there is some underlying things about the room.

You won't ever hear about that kind of thing.  If the players call a player only meeting, then maybe it's real.

Was some rumblings about the "taking a Satoshi Nakamoto" comment, but you take the good with the bad.

I doubt that is much more than a passing thing.

[The_People1]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:23 PM, sak22 said:

Yes it did, I don't think the Canucks are saints in this matter but teams do negotiate with coaches before making a move official quite often, we did it with Sutter and the team made the announcement public so that these dipSatoshi Nakamotos don't make Ward feel like a deadman walking.  All of Friedman, Seravalli, Dreger, etc, are scum, how about letting teams notify players before breaking trades, or coaches being fired, that's human decency or how about not ruining a brand new teams expansion draft reveal party by naming all the picks the day of the event just because you want followers.  I hate myself a little every time I go to their twitter pages.  I like watching the games, but I'm getting more and more tired of the reporting of the games as its just become TMZ.

 

That's a bit of an extreme take in my opinion.  It's not like Friedman was reporting that someone saw Tocchet leaving Boudreau's wife's home late night when the Canucks were on the road.  Friedman was reporting on a rumoured hockey transaction that appeared factual.  Fast forward to today, all that he reported on was proven to have been facts.

 

It's also up to the team, agents, players, and coaches to sign non-disclosure agreements to keep discussions private.  Keep it away from the media.  Someone failed here maybe even intentionally but in any event, that's not on the reporters.  Reporters report.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's a bit of an extreme take in my opinion.  It's not like Friedman was reporting that someone saw Tocchet leaving Boudreau's wife's home late night when the Canucks were on the road.  Friedman was reporting on a rumoured hockey transaction that appeared factual.  Fast forward to today, all that he reported on was proven to have been facts.

 

It's also up to the team, agents, players, and coaches to sign non-disclosure agreements to keep discussions private.  Keep it away from the media.  Someone failed here maybe even intentionally but in any event, that's not on the reporters.  Reporters report.

I disagree. Someone of Friedman's stature knows where the lines are. He chose to cross it to break a story.

I don't think history will treat him kindly. We'll see where he goes from here. I'd tell my team to shun him, personally.

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's a bit of an extreme take in my opinion.  It's not like Friedman was reporting that someone saw Tocchet leaving Boudreau's wife's home late night when the Canucks were on the road.  Friedman was reporting on a rumoured hockey transaction that appeared factual.  Fast forward to today, all that he reported on was proven to have been facts.

 

It's also up to the team, agents, players, and coaches to sign non-disclosure agreements to keep discussions private.  Keep it away from the media.  Someone failed here maybe even intentionally but in any event, that's not on the reporters.  Reporters report.

Yeah they report, but can also wait for it to be official, what in the world is wrong with reporting news when there is an actual transaction.  I think a lot of mid-season coaching decisions can drag out weeks.  Bruce went through an emotional media hell, which could all be avoided if Friedman doesn't have an itch to be #1 on the story, and instead he likely feels no guilt for his reporting because the Canucks take all the blame.  Knowing this information early has no impact on my life and if it has impact on the lives of other fans than all I can say is they need new priorities in life.

[The_People1]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I disagree. Someone of Friedman's stature knows where the lines are. He chose to cross it to break a story.

I don't think history will treat him kindly. We'll see where he goes from here. I'd tell my team to shun him, personally.

 

7 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Yeah they report, but can also wait for it to be official, what in the world is wrong with reporting news when there is an actual transaction.  I think a lot of mid-season coaching decisions can drag out weeks.  Bruce went through an emotional media hell, which could all be avoided if Friedman doesn't have an itch to be #1 on the story, and instead he likely feels no guilt for his reporting because the Canucks take all the blame.  Knowing this information early has no impact on my life and if it has impact on the lives of other fans than all I can say is they need new priorities in life.

 

I don't feel any lines have been crossed as it's the nature of the business and this isn't the last time it's going to happen.  It's just, normally reporters leak this 1 or 2 days in advance, if at all.  This was leaked unusually long before Boudreau was fired.

 

That's on the team though.  First, for allowing the Tocchet dealings to get leaked.  Then, they should've fired Boudreau immediately after the leak and appointed the assistant to be the lame duck so Boudreau could leave graciously.

 

Lastly, I feel it's the reporters duty to aim for breaking news and to be that #1 on the story.  They should do their best to farm max engagement on social media, etc.  All of these is what their job description should entail.  It's what they should do and it's just business, nothing personal.  The fans will reward Friedman here.

[sak22]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I don't feel any lines have been crossed as it's the nature of the business and this isn't the last time it's going to happen.  It's just, normally reporters leak this 1 or 2 days in advance, if at all.  This was leaked unusually long before Boudreau was fired.

 

That's on the team though.  First, for allowing the Tocchet dealings to get leaked.  Then, they should've fired Boudreau immediately after the leak and appointed the assistant to be the lame duck so Boudreau could leave graciously.

 

Lastly, I feel it's the reporters duty to aim for breaking news and to be that #1 on the story.  They should do their best to farm max engagement on social media, etc.  All of these is what their job description should entail.  It's what they should do and it's just business, nothing personal.  The fans will reward Friedman here.

It seems I struck a nerve with insulting Lord Friedman.  Sorry I don't fall in the crowd to worship guys who break hockey news, nothing you or anyone else will say will change my opinion.  I watch for the game, not the soap opera, you enjoy the soap opera so be it.  It's just a game and entertainment for us, if my company decides today they want to lay me off next Friday I'm not going to think more of a person who tells me on Monday.  I do find it funny how you can be anti-MSM when it comes to real news, but sports msm is a different story, both are garbage my friend.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

It seems I struck a nerve with insulting Lord Friedman.  Sorry I don't fall in the crowd to worship guys who break hockey news, nothing you or anyone else will say will change my opinion.  I watch for the game, not the soap opera, you enjoy the soap opera so be it.  It's just a game and entertainment for us, if my company decides today they want to lay me off next Friday I'm not going to think more of a person who tells me on Monday.  I do find it funny how you can be anti-MSM when it comes to real news, but sports msm is a different story, both are garbage my friend.

 

Comparing news media to sports media is quite funny.

 

[sak22]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Comparing news media to sports media is quite funny.

 

I find how some people eat this stuff up funny myself, men can mock women for reading tabloids, watching the View or reality TV and soap operas, but how many sport fans seem to need to know everything going on in a locker room during a losing streak, its just a game, on lots of winning teams players don't get along with everyone or coaches feud with players, coaches feud with management and so on.  There is no need to make a sport a soap opera, it is no different from any other workplace.  

[cross16]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I disagree. Someone of Friedman's stature knows where the lines are. He chose to cross it to break a story.

I don't think history will treat him kindly. We'll see where he goes from here. I'd tell my team to shun him, personally.

 

 

At the same time though why is it other teams can keep this quiet and the Canucks didn't? Flames were almost certainly talking to Sutter while Ward was the coach and it that never got out.  Also have to balance this with the fact that he is almost certainly used by teams when it's convenient for them.  Can't have it both ways.

 

I don't think he crossed a line either. I think it's fair to dislike the type of reporting Friedman and others do but I think that's a by product of fan demand and not the result of the individuals IMO. 

[cross16]

23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Odd news, and I'm not even sure it's important....

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/darryl-sutter-called-into-meeting-with-flames-gm-brad-treliving?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mh&utm_content=tweet

 

 

Not important and a piece trying to stir up controversy that isn't there. I don't think Treliving should have liked the comments, I think in hindsight Sutter shouldn't have even liked the comment and like any good organization you should share feedback and discuss it. Very healthy process that should not be framed in any negative way as that piece tried to.

 

Nothing story IMO. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

I find how some people eat this stuff up funny myself, men can mock women for reading tabloids, watching the View or reality TV and soap operas, but how many sport fans seem to need to know everything going on in a locker room during a losing streak, its just a game, on lots of winning teams players don't get along with everyone or coaches feud with players, coaches feud with management and so on.  There is no need to make a sport a soap opera, it is no different from any other workplace.  

 

Sports is closer to the movie industry than most workplaces.

Do you often get stopped on the way in the door and some random person asks for your autograph?

Is your autograph worth money to people?

Do people call you up to ask your opinion on lifestyle or news or sports?

Canadians are obsessed with hockey.

Kids have heroes in sports, so it's odd that you think there shouldn't be any appetite for hockey stories.

 

Saying all that, it's a shame that the team could be so clueless in dealing with the coach.  If you know you are firing a guy, why pretend that it was just decided.  Show some class and inform the coach early.  Give the reins to the A/coach so that the team knows what's going on.  And the fans.  They might not agree, but at least it shows some class in being upfront.  

[CheersMan]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sports is closer to the movie industry than most workplaces.

Do you often get stopped on the way in the door and some random person asks for your autograph?

Is your autograph worth money to people?

Do people call you up to ask your opinion on lifestyle or news or sports?

Canadians are obsessed with hockey.

Kids have heroes in sports, so it's odd that you think there shouldn't be any appetite for hockey stories.

 

Saying all that, it's a shame that the team could be so clueless in dealing with the coach.  If you know you are firing a guy, why pretend that it was just decided.  Show some class and inform the coach early.  Give the reins to the A/coach so that the team knows what's going on.  And the fans.  They might not agree, but at least it shows some class in being upfront.  

You mean like can the coach on Saturday evening, hand the team over to the A coach for 6 days, then can him too the following Friday? Interesting concept. Tocchet gets booed first game behind the bench, its all going as anticipated, misery and mismanagement on the west coast.

 

Imagine the negotiation leverage Tocchet gained once the story got leaked. Did I say $4M, sorry I meant $5M. Tocchets team probably leaked the news to gain leverage. Pretty sure the switch wasn't suppose to happen until the all star break, but it got moved up and probably cost a few more bucks.