Darryl Sutter new head coach

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Gaudreau loved Sutter but I don't think Tkachuk and Sutter got along well. He's made comments since he left that allude to the two of them not seeing eye to eye. Commetns around his ice time, playing in OT etc and I Sutter's never taken a shot at Gaudreau like he did with Tkachuk.  He also went out of his way to praise Maurice when he got to Florida. 

 

He's also gone out of his way to praise Treliving and call him a friend. 

 

Kind of like how Gaudreau's own parents have said even they thought he was signing in Calgary. Funny how obvious it was to everyone else though. https://dailyhive.com/calgary/johnny-gaudreau-parents-stay-flames

 

Hindsight indeed.

 

 

It's difficult to know what was going on in his mind when he made that decision.

Story makes it sound like his wife.

But, this leaves out why she would have made the argument.

She would be around every day after practice or games.

Did it make him a sour or PO'd person? 

You may love your job and your boss, but if it affects your home life then maybe it's not good.

 

I agree about Tkachuk 100%.

 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think hindsight at all. When there are seeds of doubt then there is always a possibility either way. And that is the gamble. It just depends on what side of the coin fans sit. The fact that there was doubt, I wasn't willing to take that chance, BT was. And sure they were close, but close is like a 2-1 game and he took it to OT and we ultimately lost. He was close to signing. Almost scoring in OT but still failing to & then getting scored on is still a loss. 
 

Just because it didn't go down that he left outright like Tkachuk doesn't change the fact that him leaving was always a higher than likely possibility. BT not trading him at the TDL or prior to the season without a contract was BT's fault. It didn't happen, he didn't get get it done. 

 

And what was the solution with Gaudreau.

The owners wanted him here to the point that trading him would be a firing offense.

No way he was being traded at TDL.

No way did they want to trade him that summer (2021).

That signals rebuild.  

The owners felt they could win the season with the way they finished under Sutter in 20/21.

 

The owners and GM wanted him to re-sign.

He wanted to re-sign until he didn't.

The mistake made was not pitching the best possible offer when he was looking first.

The cap issues would be in the future, not the current year.

They were looking for a home.

Nesting.

The pressures of winning were not as obvious.

Missed the playoffs that year.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think hindsight at all. When there are seeds of doubt then there is always a possibility either way. And that is the gamble. It just depends on what side of the coin fans sit. The fact that there was doubt, I wasn't willing to take that chance, BT was. And sure they were close, but close is like a 2-1 game and he took it to OT and we ultimately lost. He was close to signing. Almost scoring in OT but still failing to & then getting scored on is still a loss. 
 

Just because it didn't go down that he left outright like Tkachuk doesn't change the fact that him leaving was always a higher than likely possibility. BT not trading him at the TDL or prior to the season without a contract was BT's fault. It didn't happen, he didn't get get it done. 

 

The point is this is an opinion not fact. His agent reached a deal with the Flames, his own parents thought he would stay and I've heard he was telling teammates days before he was staying in Calgary. 

 

It is 100% hindsight to make statements like "we knew he was leaving" or "always a higher than likely possibility". His actions, and the actions of his family tell us differently. 

 

Was it an unnecessary risk, that is for sure up to debate but there are a lot of factors in play there. What were the offers for Gaudreau? Was BT allowed to accepts futures? Was there even an appetite to move him knowing (remember he was coming off back to back underwhelming season) they would come no where close to replacing him. Would that have been tolerated?

 

Unfair to put this on BT. This is an organization failure that should cause questions around why does this team value winning every year over asset management or why does this team seem to not want to acknowledge it is a small market club. Not really up to a GM to answer those questions. 

 

 

[tmac70]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

The point is this is an opinion not fact. His agent reached a deal with the Flames, his own parents thought he would stay and I've heard he was telling teammates days before he was staying in Calgary. 

 

It is 100% hindsight to make statements like "we knew he was leaving" or "always a higher than likely possibility". His actions, and the actions of his family tell us differently. 

 

Was it an unnecessary risk, that is for sure up to debate but there are a lot of factors in play there. What were the offers for Gaudreau? Was BT allowed to accepts futures? Was there even an appetite to move him knowing (remember he was coming off back to back underwhelming season) they would come no where close to replacing him. Would that have been tolerated?

 

Unfair to put this on BT. This is an organization failure that should cause questions around why does this team value winning every year over asset management or why does this team seem to not want to acknowledge it is a small market club. Not really up to a GM to answer those questions. 

 

 

The JG and MT saga I do not put on Tre. I do believe JG intent was to stay, I have mentioned the fact that his wife had and was a major factor in them not signing. What I would put some form of responsibility on Tre with is contracts with these two beforehand, it should have never gotten to this point.

 

The two things as this season unfolds that I have come to realize is this:

 

1) Trevling should ahve more power and say as to what goes on with the roster release of players ect. If he doesn't and thats left with the owners your issues run far deeper. 

 

2) Sutter needs to change his mindset about younger guys. What we have seen and history has shown this with younger guys he has had before. The younger guys despite their warts create energy. How many goals has Duehr had vs Kadri/ Hubbie/ Mags/ Coleman? IMHO what I see now is an unwillingness to engage in battle with the veterans as opposed to the younger players. Take for example all the bottom dwellers we lost to had mostly a rookie roster. We seem to play better against older more seasoned teams. We need a hybrid of this going forward. 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

The JG and MT saga I do not put on Tre. 

 

Clearly there was bad blood between BT and JG/MT during their previous contract negotiations that got carried over.  JG especially felt disrespected by BT/organization.  Forgave but didn't forget.  BT took JG to the 11th hour and forced JG's hand when he's supposedly our best player.  And so JG paid him back.

 

Captaincy was dangled over MT's head and players don't like that.  If he's the leader, then make him the captain.  Don't make him buy the captaincy through contract negotiations.  Who is more privileged to have who?  So now MT is gone.   But I mean, MT's lifestyle is more suited for Florida and we all know that.  But BT helped make it easier.

 

So what I'm saying is, I know there are many many factors that led to JG and MT leaving.  For sure it wasn't just one thing.  But also for sure BT's negotiation tactics helped make it worse.  He needs to take "some" blame.

[conundrumed]

On the plus side, I always complained that I kinda had to cheer for Tkachuk. Now I don't have to.

JG married a girl named Meredith. Has anyone ever had success with Meredith's? The name itself comes with certain connotations and implications. If it were a Jane, Sally, Louise, Charlotte or names like that, this would have never been a problem.

I'm kidding in case anyone is taking that seriously.

5-0 Sting halfway through, that's all that matters.lol

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Clearly there was bad blood between BT and JG/MT during their previous contract negotiations that got carried over.  JG especially felt disrespected by BT/organization.  Forgave but didn't forget.  BT took JG to the 11th hour and forced JG's hand when he's supposedly our best player.  And so JG paid him back.

 

Captaincy was dangled over MT's head and players don't like that.  If he's the leader, then make him the captain.  Don't make him buy the captaincy through contract negotiations.  Who is more privileged to have who?  So now MT is gone.   But I mean, MT's lifestyle is more suited for Florida and we all know that.  But BT helped make it easier.

 

So what I'm saying is, I know there are many many factors that led to JG and MT leaving.  For sure it wasn't just one thing.  But also for sure BT's negotiation tactics helped make it worse.  He needs to take "some" blame.

I agree to some extent. The longer you allow someone to think on anything they eventually talk themselves out. I do strongly belive that JG leaving was based on his wife wanting to leave. MT well the history with the old man not liking Sutter, locker room issues ect you could see MT leaving. With MT at least he did the honorable thing. JG made a decision on the 11th hour based on influence from the wife is what I always thought anyway. Old adage don't leave Satoshi Nakamoto till the last minute. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

On the plus side, I always complained that I kinda had to cheer for Tkachuk. Now I don't have to.

JG married a girl named Meredith. Has anyone ever had success with Meredith's? The name itself comes with certain connotations and implications. If it were a Jane, Sally, Louise, Charlotte or names like that, this would have never been a problem.

I'm kidding in case anyone is taking that seriously.

5-0 Sting halfway through, that's all that matters.lol

 

Bwahahaha.

I do agree with the Tkachuk sentiments.

This had me thinking about what FlyerFan52 used to say about Tkachuks.

All for themselves.

And he wouldn't have been surprised that he wanted a trade.

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Gaudreau loved Sutter but I don't think Tkachuk and Sutter got along well. He's made comments since he left that allude to the two of them not seeing eye to eye. Commetns around his ice time, playing in OT etc and I Sutter's never taken a shot at Gaudreau like he did with Tkachuk.  He also went out of his way to praise Maurice when he got to Florida. 

 

He's also gone out of his way to praise Treliving and call him a friend. 

 

Kind of like how Gaudreau's own parents have said even they thought he was signing in Calgary. Funny how obvious it was to everyone else though. https://dailyhive.com/calgary/johnny-gaudreau-parents-stay-flames

 

Hindsight indeed.

 

 

hey man

 

Do you happen to have a quote where his wife said she thought he was signing here?

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

hey man

 

Do you happen to have a quote where his wife said she thought he was signing here?

All I know is the radio crew at the fan have said he was out looking for places to buy throughout Calgary with his wife. 
 

I just read something the other day that said he took a drive the night he decided and that he just said to himself, "I can't do it!" So, I don't know how long the torment of signing in Calgary or signing elsewhere would have gone on for him.
 

But if it's the case, I can understand negotiating in good faith but also having my heart elsewhere, thus wanting to be in two different places. 

[conundrumed]

Wow. I was actually joking about her name. Flames fans, be better. Blaming his wife is trashy.

Frank Seravelli is trashy. He represents everything that fans should hate about talking heads. Stop following anything he does. He's a clickbait piece of trash. There is a reason he can't break a trade anymore, no one wants to talk to him because his ethics are toilet-level. So now he's the National Enquirer of hockey journalism. He's an attention whore.

[cross16]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

hey man

 

Do you happen to have a quote where his wife said she thought he was signing here?

 

Do you happen to have a quote where she says she didn't want to stay or didn't like Calgary? 

 

I think bringing his wife into this is silly and unnecessary as this who trying to complicate the process. It can be really as simple as Gaudreau wanting both things (play in Calgary and also be closer to home), wrestling hard with the decision, likely putting off making it as long as he could and then ultimately not getting over paying closer to home, so he picked that. Really doesn't need to be complicated. 

 

And all of this because the Flames might have missed out on a late round first round pick or some roster player we'd probably already dislike by now. 

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Do you happen to have a quote where she says she didn't want to stay or didn't like Calgary? 

 

I think bringing his wife into this is silly and unnecessary as this who trying to complicate the process. It can be really as simple as Gaudreau wanting both things (play in Calgary and also be closer to home), wrestling hard with the decision, likely putting off making it as long as he could and then ultimately not getting over paying closer to home, so he picked that. Really doesn't need to be complicated. 

 

And all of this because the Flames might have missed out on a late round first round pick or some roster player we'd probably already dislike by now. 

 

I agree, and you probably shouldn't have brought his familly into it.  But you did, in the Darryl Sutter thread.

 

But I'll be a good sport and apologize anyway.

 

p.s..  by "might have missed out", we mean "did", imho.   And yes they probably wouldn't have turned out, we agree on that too but for reasons I try to keep in the BT thread.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I agree, and you probably shouldn't have brought his familly into it.  But you did, in the Darryl Sutter thread.

 

But I'll apologize anyway cause I know ya lol

 

Right because linking an article where his mom and dad are directly quoted is the same as baseless speculation. 

[jjgallow]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

Right because linking an article where his mom and dad are directly quoted is the same as baseless speculation. 

 

you do realize there's an article with his wife in it too?  I would link, but, it doesn't have Darryl Sutter in the article lol

[travel_dude]

At this point, does it even matter what Servalli says?  

We are talking about the coach here and not a missed trade of Gaudreau.

We seem to be worse off with a0 the coach, and b) Gaudreau and Tkachuk gone.

Possible that the coach resulted in them not wanting to be here.

FS never mentioned that, so it can't be true.

Both left for their reasons and we only here the spin.

Fair to say that one person knew when they decided to move on.

And their reasons, which will never really come out.

 

I would like the GM and owners to do a post-mortem on the team and coach.

Having players and a coach and having a team are two different things.

I feel like half the team has given up.

Some games, the play comes together, but how much is just hitting the right team at the right time?

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

At this point, does it even matter what Servalli says?  

We are talking about the coach here and not a missed trade of Gaudreau.

We seem to be worse off with a0 the coach, and b) Gaudreau and Tkachuk gone.

Possible that the coach resulted in them not wanting to be here.

FS never mentioned that, so it can't be true.

Both left for their reasons and we only here the spin.

Fair to say that one person knew when they decided to move on.

And their reasons, which will never really come out.

 

I would like the GM and owners to do a post-mortem on the team and coach.

Having players and a coach and having a team are two different things.

I feel like half the team has given up.

Some games, the play comes together, but how much is just hitting the right team at the right time?

 

Yeah I suppose I did divert this a bit to BT, which brought in the big name players.

 

Wasn't necessarily trying to make excuses for Sutter.   This is not a banner year for him and he's made mistakes.

 

But like seriously...how many coaches has BT been through?   Would almost be cool to have a merged coaching thread.  Is the number laughable?  yes it is.  I see this as bigger than Sutter.

We learned with Peters that BT seems to make no serious effort to interview or consult with former players before hiring a coach.   So is it suprising if other BT hires also have player issues?  As an example.

 

Coaches and goalies are the 2 easiest to blame, and the 2 least likely to solve root issues.

 

So, has Sutter screwed up this year?   Maybe.   I'm not going to argue that.    

     But like, Hartley:   created a Miracle season.  Which actually really, really messed up the completion of the rebuild lol.

           And because he couldn't pull off 2 miracles in a row ,he was canned.  I thought that was weak of BT then and now.

              

IMHO, last year, Sutter also created a miracle season.  that's just me, I don't see the players the same on paper as you.

 

But, whether it's the players skill level, or their drive, or the coach, or a combination......

 

I just don't think we get anywhere serious without looking at BT or up.   And honestly I don't think that's me being negative, my view on this blames less people actually.   Would new GMs/owners fire Sutter?

 

Maybe.    I'd like to think they'd have some closed door meetings with him first.   Sure it's a possibility.   But there are entire processes missing here which got us to where we are, with the coach we have, in his current state.

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yeah I suppose I did divert this a bit to BT, which brought in the big name players.

 

Wasn't necessarily trying to make excuses for Sutter.   This is not a banner year for him and he's made mistakes.

 

But like seriously...how many coaches has BT been through?   Would almost be cool to have a merged coaching thread.  Is the number laughable?  yes it is.  I see this as bigger than Sutter.

We learned with Peters that BT seems to make no serious effort to interview or consult with former players before hiring a coach.   So is it suprising if other BT hires also have player issues?  As an example.

 

Coaches and goalies are the 2 easiest to blame, and the 2 least likely to solve root issues.

 

So, has Sutter screwed up this year?   Maybe.   I'm not going to argue that.    

     But like, Hartley:   created a Miracle season.  Which actually really, really messed up the completion of the rebuild lol.

           And because he couldn't pull off 2 miracles in a row ,he was canned.  I thought that was weak of BT then and now.

              

IMHO, last year, Sutter also created a miracle season.  that's just me, I don't see the players the same on paper as you.

 

But, whether it's the players skill level, or their drive, or the coach, or a combination......

 

I just don't think we get anywhere serious without looking at BT or up.   And honestly I don't think that's me being negative, my view on this blames less people actually.   Would new GMs/owners fire Sutter?

 

Maybe.    I'd like to think they'd have some closed door meetings with him first.   Sure it's a possibility.   But there are entire processes missing here which got us to where we are, with the coach we have, in his current state.

 

Name me one ex-Flames coach that has been kept as a NHL head coach.

I blame BT for lack of a real search or perhaps lack of suitable candidates.

Sutter last coached for LA in 2017.

That was a losing season for them and not one without stars.

 

Hartley, Gully, BP, Wardo all seem to be coaches that haven't been successful.

BP didn't get CAR much success.

Gully and Wardo were A/coaches elsewhere.

Sutter had success almost a decade ago.

 

I don't think a coaching change solves all the problems.

There is a mix of players that don't work right.

Some of them were obvious coach faves.

Or those pushed by the owners?

Lucic had a cheaper overall cost compared to Neal.

Can't blame Neal on the coach then, but we were unable to get anything out of him.

Poor choice and couldn't use him to any strengths he had.

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Name me one ex-Flames coach that has been kept as a NHL head coach.

I blame BT for lack of a real search or perhaps lack of suitable candidates.

Sutter last coached for LA in 2017.

That was a losing season for them and not one without stars.

 

Hartley, Gully, BP, Wardo all seem to be coaches that haven't been successful.

BP didn't get CAR much success.

Gully and Wardo were A/coaches elsewhere.

Sutter had success almost a decade ago.

 

I don't think a coaching change solves all the problems.

There is a mix of players that don't work right.

Some of them were obvious coach faves.

Or those pushed by the owners?

Lucic had a cheaper overall cost compared to Neal.

Can't blame Neal on the coach then, but we were unable to get anything out of him.

Poor choice and couldn't use him to any strengths he had.

 

 

this guy lol.   And agree with what you said above.

 

Yeah we been through a lotta coaches.   Is part of that not knowing how to pick them?

 

Prolly yes.

 

You can only go through so many coaches before you have to start asking who's picking them.   And I think we are at a point where a new coach likely wouldn't solve much, because, well, they would also be picked by BT.

 

Just my own opinion:   Put Sutter with any contender, and they will get even closer to the cup.
                            Put him with a non-contender and they'll likely get further away.  

                            Unless....  unless he is managed properly.  But that's just me.

             From that perspective, I can see why BT may have wanted Sutter, given his mandate.  I see Sutter as the first crack to show in a larger, poorly executed and  failed short-term  plan (and there was no long term plan).

[tmac70]

Sutter has warts as does every coach.  Rumors are Sutter has ruffled a lot of feathers in the front office. What makes things complicated is when your employee has more power than the supposed person in charge Trevling. This is why I have said there is a dynamic shift right now, the tail can't wag the dog. If there is a power struggle or attitude struggle between upper management owners and coaches, in all terms of hierarchy Sutter should be removed based on non-compliance. If the owners are making the call and are on Sutters' side then Trevling is irrelevant.  The worst-case scenario is that the owners bring in a GM that is a puppet to Sutter then this organization, development, and draft choices will regress 5-7 years just to bring in players for the win-now attitude. Lombardi would probably be in line for the job, terrible idea. Although he brought a cups to LA it put that organization back years, which Sutter alluded to as a normal trend up then down to do so. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

this guy lol.   And agree with what you said above.

 

Yeah we been through a lotta coaches.   Is part of that not knowing how to pick them?

 

Prolly yes.

 

You can only go through so many coaches before you have to start asking who's picking them.   And I think we are at a point where a new coach likely wouldn't solve much, because, well, they would also be picked by BT.

 

Just my own opinion:   Put Sutter with any contender, and they will get even closer to the cup.
                            Put him with a non-contender and they'll likely get further away.  

                            Unless....  unless he is managed properly.  But that's just me.

             From that perspective, I can see why BT may have wanted Sutter, given his mandate.  I see Sutter as the first crack to show in a larger, poorly executed and  failed short-term  plan (and there was no long term plan).

 

I doubt BT had much choice in Sutter.  I believe the narrative was that he was given Sutter as the answer to being allowed to fire Wardo.  If that's not true, then it falls on BT as to why he made the choice.

 

I would question his ability to turn a contender into a near cup team.

Could he take Tampa to another cup?

Well, it's more like could Tampa win another cup in spite of him.

Vegas?  Not sure how he improves that team.  

BOS?  Again, how do you improve them?  

I'm trying to think of a team that matches his style or would benefit from playing that style.

 

Coaching choices come down to what type of team you want and the game you want.

Sutter team in CGY was feared in the 2000's.

Is that what they wanted to see?  A place that was feared by the other teams?

Well, we have that.  A place where a team leaves with a major or minor injury to one player.

Honestly, I'm not sure what type of game he preaches.

Shot volume, low skill?

Possession over high danger chances?

Offense lead by the D?

Greasy goals?

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter has warts as does every coach.  Rumors are Sutter has ruffled a lot of feathers in the front office. What makes things complicated is when your employee has more power than the supposed person in charge Trevling. This is why I have said there is a dynamic shift right now, the tail can't wag the dog. If there is a power struggle or attitude struggle between upper management owners and coaches, in all terms of hierarchy Sutter should be removed based on non-compliance. If the owners are making the call and are on Sutters' side then Trevling is irrelevant.  The worst-case scenario is that the owners bring in a GM that is a puppet to Sutter then this organization, development, and draft choices will regress 5-7 years just to bring in players for the win-now attitude. Lombardi would probably be in line for the job, terrible idea. Although he brought a cups to LA it put that organization back years, which Sutter alluded to as a normal trend up then down to do so. 

 

 

 

I hear ya.  And it may extend all the way to the players.

Pretty hard to get buy in when things are not working.

I do wonder how much the new guys and younger guys respect Lucic and Lewis.

Tough players and cup winners, but that time has passed and they lead to more chances against.

Do you listen to a guy getting turnstiled about how to play the game?

Yes, you appreciate when they step up and take on a tough guy.

But, you don't give the room to George Laroque.

 

We can fix the team personnel this summer, but we have to also have the right coach.

No point in Huberdeau passing to low skill players or playing with a C that doesn't win faceoffs.

No point in developing players just to sit them when we are losing.

 

If there is a coaching change, it has to be a builder.

One that can take a Vrana and get him back to being a scorer.

One that knows when the game has passed certain players.

One that builds chemistry not elevate individuals based on performance.

I'm still waiting for that this year.

Lindholm-Toffoli maybe our most consistent duo.

The 3rd line plays really well together, but is just the shutdown line now.

Huberdeau-Kadri has not worked at all.  

Some luck in some games depending on who they play with.

 

And I will also suggest that coaching is the entire staff.

Goaltending, PP, PK, defense, head coach.

One of those at least should be good.

[jjgallow]

47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I doubt BT had much choice in Sutter.  I believe the narrative was that he was given Sutter as the answer to being allowed to fire Wardo.  If that's not true, then it falls on BT as to why he made the choice.

 

I would question his ability to turn a contender into a near cup team.

Could he take Tampa to another cup?

Well, it's more like could Tampa win another cup in spite of him.

Vegas?  Not sure how he improves that team.  

BOS?  Again, how do you improve them?  

I'm trying to think of a team that matches his style or would benefit from playing that style.

 

Coaching choices come down to what type of team you want and the game you want.

Sutter team in CGY was feared in the 2000's.

Is that what they wanted to see?  A place that was feared by the other teams?

Well, we have that.  A place where a team leaves with a major or minor injury to one player.

Honestly, I'm not sure what type of game he preaches.

Shot volume, low skill?

Possession over high danger chances?

Offense lead by the D?

Greasy goals?

 

It's very possible that BT had no choice in Sutter.

 

However if that's true, it's because he went through a string of horrible coaching situations, to a point where, if the owners lost faith in his staffing decisions for coaches, I wouldn't blame them.

 

Ultimately when I criticise the GM it's not a personal attack on BT, who I am sure is great guy.

 

It's simply an observation that we are not seeing sustainable or sensible decisions coming from that position.

Could that involve standing up to the owners?  Quite possibly.   Is it possible one of the issues is a lack of faith from the owners?  quite possibly and if so, again I don't blame them.

 

At the end of the day, all of that is irrelevant if we're not seeing what we need to out of the GM.  

 

That's something Sutter cannot fix, and should not fix.  

[tmac70]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I hear ya.  And it may extend all the way to the players.

Pretty hard to get buy in when things are not working.

I do wonder how much the new guys and younger guys respect Lucic and Lewis.

Tough players and cup winners, but that time has passed and they lead to more chances against.

Do you listen to a guy getting turnstiled about how to play the game?

Yes, you appreciate when they step up and take on a tough guy.

But, you don't give the room to George Laroque.

 

We can fix the team personnel this summer, but we have to also have the right coach.

No point in Huberdeau passing to low skill players or playing with a C that doesn't win faceoffs.

No point in developing players just to sit them when we are losing.

 

If there is a coaching change, it has to be a builder.

One that can take a Vrana and get him back to being a scorer.

One that knows when the game has passed certain players.

One that builds chemistry not elevate individuals based on performance.

I'm still waiting for that this year.

Lindholm-Toffoli maybe our most consistent duo.

The 3rd line plays really well together, but is just the shutdown line now.

Huberdeau-Kadri has not worked at all.  

Some luck in some games depending on who they play with.

 

And I will also suggest that coaching is the entire staff.

Goaltending, PP, PK, defense, head coach.

One of those at least should be good.

What needs to change is some players' attitudes as well as the thought process of the coaching staff. Can old dogs learn new tricks sure if they feel or see the need to change? Like I said before multiple times, Sutter has warts as do we all, but we can all change if there is a need desire, and factors to change. Today's players are not pushable the way they use to be, which means Sutter needs to change his teaching methods but also the players need to be better it works both ways.  I still believe there is nothing wrong with the systems it's an execution problem on both sides.  IMHO you have the wrong players to create the results and the wrong method to voice it. 

 

Score some goals and make some saves, this is a different topic.  I still think that Mags getting his contract was money unwisely invested. We could have gotten the same production for half the amount and invested it in a better D man. This year has been a calamity of errors from the top down.  The fact we have expended assets to now be poor in top-line players, to the inability to maintain and acquire the right players, and to identify the needs seems to be a huge whiff by Trevling as well. Long winded but the results we have are a collective of poor judgment, execution and communication. 

[tmac70]

14 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

What needs to change is some players' attitudes as well as the thought process of the coaching staff. Can old dogs learn new tricks sure if they feel or see the need to change? Like I said before multiple times, Sutter has warts as do we all, but we can all change if there is a need desire, and factors to change. Today's players are not pushable the way they use to be, which means Sutter needs to change his teaching methods but also the players need to be better it works both ways.  I still believe there is nothing wrong with the systems it's an execution problem on both sides.  IMHO you have the wrong players to create the results and the wrong method to voice it. 

 

Score some goals and make some saves, this is a different topic.  I still think that Mags getting his contract was money unwisely invested. We could have gotten the same production for half the amount and invested it in a better D man. This year has been a calamity of errors from the top down.  The fact we have expended assets to now be poor in top-line players, to the inability to maintain and acquire the right players, and to identify the needs seems to be a huge whiff by Trevling as well. Long winded but the results we have are a collective of poor judgment, execution and communication. 

The other factors that we seem to forget to be successful is 

 

1) You need 1-3 game changers, we have NONE on the roster and NONE in the system

2) Average to slightly above average goaltending, has not happened when we needed it

3) Depth Scoring, have had NONE for over 10 years

4) You need a 1 stud dman and a good supporting cast, We have no stud DMan and None in the system. 

 

So until those boxes are checked your just going to tread water constantly.