Darryl Sutter new head coach

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

The bolded in your quote was what I felt was the last four years. It was a Gaudreau team and not much else in the way of pace. Metrics and stuff like that might say otherwise. But I always felt you stop Johnny Hockey and you stop the Flames. 
 

Johnny wasn't the wrong player, they just failed to develop around him. Bennett was too good for JR and already good enough to play NHL and the whole, "and he's only 18" when we played the Canucks in the playoffs. 
 

I guess there was a bit more pace to other Flames teams, but I think it was Gaudreau and Backlund pushing the pace.
 

It was why I wanted to trade Johnny years ago and try build through the draft. It's not 100%, I get it. We even failed on Benny pick, and the Valamaki pick and so on... but I think we need to continue to draft well. Although we've cornered the market on late round undersized skill, and know how to draft that...

 

I was a bit worried about the Mangiapane deal. He shows better than this year, but I was worried this was actually him. Maybe he is actually better. 
 

Dube might be the only one going this year and yet Sutter puts him on the 4th?

 

I actually think fans would love to see some speed and skill inserted. Most of the time that comes with drafting and unusual to get through trade and UFA. 

 

We used to fly.  Brodie, Hudler, Frolik, etc.  Gio was the methodical one.

He was better when he pushed the pace.

Whatever, it's changed so much in the last few years.

Fast attack.  Fast transition.

I don't think trading Johnny 4 years ago makes us better today.

 

I do think that some things that happened with Tkachuk and Gaudreau really set them off.

JG getting slashed and no response from the captain.

Tkachuk involved with the Kings and zero support.

Lucic was supposed to be the man, and he was a jerk.

Tkachuk brough the game every game, and while I don't like some aspects, he was the guy.

Lucic and Gio basically telling him to pipe down.

 

The coach has turned the team into a low skill, low event, low speed, just shoot it team.

The defense is "I got him, he's your's".

The goaltending has been ruined, where the guy struggling the most gets the call.

The guy playing well sits until he goes cold.

Dump and chase, but send one guy in.

Bennett style zone entries.

I don't think Stone was a great player, but man we miss slapshots.

Saw a player take a slapper from 6 feet out on a rebound.

I don't even know he was close to hitting the net, but what a dumb play.

The PP is useless.  Poor use of personnel.

Kadri on the boards.

Ritchie (Little Lucic) net front.

Top unit gets most of the minutes and is the worst.

 

I know some suggest that the players are the issue and we have gone through many coaches.

But I watch a coach playing as if he's coaching kids, you all get to play.

But then he turns around and trashes the kids (players).

I will be glad when we are officially eliminated.

There will be no good reason to play useless vets.

But, you know, cup rings.

 

I watched Kadri and Huberdeau at times last year.

There aren't at all the same.

Dube's spark has been snuffed out.

Manbgiapane is supposed to win battles in the crease area, cuz you know, you only score in the 2 feet in front.

According to someone, 90% of the NHL goals are scored there.

Leave that to Coleman and Kadri, if they want to go there.

Need a beefy, skilled 2 feet from the net guy.

Coach chased away the last one.

Did the same to Bennett in his final chance to make something here.

 

How many others are gone due to the current coach?

Jarnkrok, Valimaki, Mackey, Rooney, Milano (PTO).

How many more walk.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Same. It will be telling if he walks away. Because if I were him, another contract would have a lot of, "stay the Blockchain out of my way" clauses. They can't, so all of that hockey knowledge will walk. It's sad. He knows the NHL upside downside, but that isn't enough for this franchise apparently.

Burke passed it off and left pdq.

It's a sinking franchise that refuses to get out of the way of itself.

The worst part is fans are married to players like Backlund, Lindholm and Tanev like there aren't other players in the NHL. Just to add to the annoyance.

 

This franchise doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic who can stand up to the owners and talk sense to them.  Darryl Sutter is the closest we have and the owners are listening to whatever he says.

 

We need a Jarome Iginla to tell the owners, "I know hockey.  Move over. Let me run the show".  Except Iginla has never won the Cup before.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

This franchise doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic who can stand up to the owners and talk sense to them.  Darryl Sutter is the closest we have and the owners are listening to whatever he says.

 

We need a Jarome Iginla to tell the owners, "I know hockey.  Move over. Let me run the show".  Except Iginla has never won the Cup before.

 

Starting with a POHO would be a good first step.

Burkie was the wrong choice.

Too old school from a time that truculence was (one of) the reason you won a cup.

Some of the trade and UFA targets seem to be wrong.

But is it the wrong target or the wrong usage.

And some of the targets are just Sutter types, lower skill, beefy.

 

Don't need a Stevie Y, just a smart exec that knows the modern game.

One that can help a GM like BT get the points across.

That happens and you fire the coach and allow the GM to do the job.

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We used to fly.  Brodie, Hudler, Frolik, etc.  Gio was the methodical one.

He was better when he pushed the pace.

Whatever, it's changed so much in the last few years.

Fast attack.  Fast transition.

I don't think trading Johnny 4 years ago makes us better today.

 

I do think that some things that happened with Tkachuk and Gaudreau really set them off.

JG getting slashed and no response from the captain.

Tkachuk involved with the Kings and zero support.

Lucic was supposed to be the man, and he was a jerk.

Tkachuk brough the game every game, and while I don't like some aspects, he was the guy.

Lucic and Gio basically telling him to pipe down.

 

The coach has turned the team into a low skill, low event, low speed, just shoot it team.

The defense is "I got him, he's your's".

The goaltending has been ruined, where the guy struggling the most gets the call.

The guy playing well sits until he goes cold.

Dump and chase, but send one guy in.

Bennett style zone entries.

I don't think Stone was a great player, but man we miss slapshots.

Saw a player take a slapper from 6 feet out on a rebound.

I don't even know he was close to hitting the net, but what a dumb play.

The PP is useless.  Poor use of personnel.

Kadri on the boards.

Ritchie (Little Lucic) net front.

Top unit gets most of the minutes and is the worst.

 

I know some suggest that the players are the issue and we have gone through many coaches.

But I watch a coach playing as if he's coaching kids, you all get to play.

But then he turns around and trashes the kids (players).

I will be glad when we are officially eliminated.

There will be no good reason to play useless vets.

But, you know, cup rings.

 

I watched Kadri and Huberdeau at times last year.

There aren't at all the same.

Dube's spark has been snuffed out.

Manbgiapane is supposed to win battles in the crease area, cuz you know, you only score in the 2 feet in front.

According to someone, 90% of the NHL goals are scored there.

Leave that to Coleman and Kadri, if they want to go there.

Need a beefy, skilled 2 feet from the net guy.

Coach chased away the last one.

Did the same to Bennett in his final chance to make something here.

 

How many others are gone due to the current coach?

Jarnkrok, Valimaki, Mackey, Rooney, Milano (PTO).

How many more walk.

May the end of the year after the playoffs my brother was like, Sutter's an idiot. Those guys are gonna walk with how he blames and talks them down. Players don't like that.

[redfire11]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

But I watch a coach playing as if he's coaching kids, you all get to play.

But then he turns around and trashes the kids (players).

In Calgary everyone gets a participation medal. 

While Cooper sits Kucherov, Point, Stamkos in a 3rd period for dogging it.

[travel_dude]

46 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

May the end of the year after the playoffs my brother was like, Sutter's an idiot. Those guys are gonna walk with how he blames and talks them down. Players don't like that.

 

I will be careful to say that public comments is what I was talking about.

Somehow, though, I don't think that the players are spared in private.

Maybe it's BS for the fans or maybe he says to them we need more.

The players speak to their own defiiciencies in public, so I lean to the latter.

 

Small event, but it took Hubey awhile to get over the "taking a crap" comment.

Same with the "sewed up a cow in 5 minutes" with Guddy.

The Pelletier comment probably irked a bunch of people.

 

Little things in the big picture.

 

[cross16]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:05 AM, The_People1 said:

 

This franchise doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic who can stand up to the owners and talk sense to them.  Darryl Sutter is the closest we have and the owners are listening to whatever he says.

 

We need a Jarome Iginla to tell the owners, "I know hockey.  Move over. Let me run the show".  Except Iginla has never won the Cup before.

 

Didn't listen to him when he was the GM. At least not to the level you are describing. 

 

Burke spent years trying to wrestle power away from the owners and that's Brian Burke. Dont' think this is a "BT can't set the owners straight issue".

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Didn't listen to him when he was the GM. At least not to the level you are describing. 

 

Burke spent years trying to wrestle power away from the owners and that's Brian Burke. Dont' think this is a "BT can't set the owners straight issue".

 

Yes for a year, it felt like Brian Burke had full control of the team.  It's too bad he left because he's a voice that's respected.  But that's generally what I'm getting at.  We need someone like that to interface the owners so they don't ruin things.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes for a year, it felt like Brian Burke had full control of the team.  It's too bad he left because he's a voice that's respected.  But that's generally what I'm getting at.  We need someone like that to interface the owners so they don't ruin things.

 

He didn't behind closed doors, at least not what I understand. I agree that ideally they would have someone who can push back and that's why I advocate for the return of the President of Hockey ops role. 

 

Just don't think your going to get there with Murray Edwards. Not really how he operates. 

[conundrumed]

For the many line combos we've seen, all I ever asked from the outset was Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube.

So now I'm just bitter. So let's do this.

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

For the many line combos we've seen, all I ever asked from the outset was Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube.

So now I'm just bitter. So let's do this.

 

 

Whether or not you want to blame him is an entirely different conversation.

 

All head coaches make bad decision but this year Sutter has make far more than his fair share and done so in the face of very obvious and overwhelming evidence to show what he is doing is dumb, yet it's continued. 

 

Very, very head scratching job from the coaching staff this season. Far too many situations where you just can't find the why or logic behind what they are doing. 

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Whether or not you want to blame him is an entirely different conversation.

 

All head coaches make bad decision but this year Sutter has make far more than his fair share and done so in the face of very obvious and overwhelming evidence to show what he is doing is dumb, yet it's continued. 

 

Very, very head scratching job from the coaching staff this season. Far too many situations where you just can't find the why or logic behind what they are doing. 

 

It's a head scratcher.  Either Sutter got too arrogant after winning Coach of the Year or he's actually conspiring to get BT fired.  It doesn't make sense otherwise how an experienced hockey mind like his cannot see what we fans see at home.

[jjgallow]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:05 AM, The_People1 said:

 

This franchise doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Joe Sakic who can stand up to the owners and talk sense to them.  Darryl Sutter is the closest we have and the owners are listening to whatever he says.

 

We need a Jarome Iginla to tell the owners, "I know hockey.  Move over. Let me run the show".  Except Iginla has never won the Cup before.

 

that right there is probably true and gives me hope.

 

If the owners really will listen to someone, that's encouraging.    The problem though, is they may only be listening to him because he's telling them what they want to hear:  "Win now".

 

Still, it's something.

 

If this franchise gets a GM with the ability to build a real team and with the ability to tell the owners "invest in our future now", then things could end up working.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Whether or not you want to blame him is an entirely different conversation.

 

All head coaches make bad decision but this year Sutter has make far more than his fair share and done so in the face of very obvious and overwhelming evidence to show what he is doing is dumb, yet it's continued. 

 

Very, very head scratching job from the coaching staff this season. Far too many situations where you just can't find the why or logic behind what they are doing. 

 

The data has some faults to it.  Some of the W/O Lewis and Lucic is first line duty.

It would only make sense that it would be a better result.  

But the W/O Lucic is pretty obvious.  All of what, 3 games?

 

The decisions on lines is one thing.  The in-game decisions are both predictable and frankly odd.

I don't have to look at who is on the ice for an upcoming faceoff.  I count the other lines that have played.

1,4,3,2 or 4,3,2,1 or whatever the sequence is remains pretty constant.  

 

The other obvious thing is when we have a stong shift and then momentum shifts

and we defend for a minute or so, most times it's the 4th line.  Duehr has improved that a bit.

But when you see the other team ice it and you leave out a 4th line against their 4th, you wonder.

 

Sutter, so confident that he knows more than anyone, laughs about the idea of Huberdeau playing LW.

He scored coming in on the right side, didn't he?  More like the middle, but he actually managed a backhanded tip.

Deft hands, but not exactly a power move.  You are right, there's no logic that he can't play RW.

Just hasn't played it in the NHL before here.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

that right there is probably true and gives me hope.

 

If the owners really will listen to someone, that's encouraging.    The problem though, is they may only be listening to him because he's telling them what they want to hear:  "Win now".

 

Still, it's something.

 

If this franchise gets a GM with the ability to build a real team and with the ability to tell the owners "invest in our future now", then things could end up working.

 

So, BT puts together a team just slightly not able to win 2 rounds.

The coach gets the props, even though he was outcoached by a rookie NHL coach.

And stayed with the struggling goalie when it was obvious he had lost his mojo.

 

It's not obvious who's fault it is we lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Maybe all on the players.

Maybe the GM played hardball the wrong year (previous ones).

Maybe they were fed up with the coach.

 

If your hope is that the new GM builds a better team, then prepare to be sad.

That means that a lotto team has picked the losing coach over the GM.

That translates to Sutter players.

Don't worry about prospects, he won't use them.

Get some cup winner rejects.

 

Think about it.  Last year the team was built to please the coach.

Sutter arrives and Bennett traded because Sutter couldn't change him into anything.

Sutter new year, so we sign Guddy and get a big hulking D.

Valimaki doesn't factor into the season.

Sutter likes Toffoli, so we get him at a high cost of picks/prospects.

Sutter wanted depth at C, so we go after Jarnkrok and Carpenter.

 

Second year, missing a top 6 winger.

Sutter doesn't like any of the prospects or Milano or even Ruzie.

We sign Lewis and Ritchie.

Sutter doesn't like Valimaki, so we waive him.

Doesn't like Ruzie, so he sits.

Ritchie having an off year, so we trade for another Ritchie in the Sutter mold.

We go from a playoff team that underperforms to a non playoff team that can't get ot together.

Don't look at the coaching, it must be the GM.

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, BT puts together a team just slightly not able to win 2 rounds.

The coach gets the props, even though he was outcoached by a rookie NHL coach.

And stayed with the struggling goalie when it was obvious he had lost his mojo.

 

It's not obvious who's fault it is we lost Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

Maybe all on the players.

Maybe the GM played hardball the wrong year (previous ones).

Maybe they were fed up with the coach.

 

If your hope is that the new GM builds a better team, then prepare to be sad.

That means that a lotto team has picked the losing coach over the GM.

That translates to Sutter players.

Don't worry about prospects, he won't use them.

Get some cup winner rejects.

 

Think about it.  Last year the team was built to please the coach.

Sutter arrives and Bennett traded because Sutter couldn't change him into anything.

Sutter new year, so we sign Guddy and get a big hulking D.

Valimaki doesn't factor into the season.

Sutter likes Toffoli, so we get him at a high cost of picks/prospects.

Sutter wanted depth at C, so we go after Jarnkrok and Carpenter.

 

Second year, missing a top 6 winger.

Sutter doesn't like any of the prospects or Milano or even Ruzie.

We sign Lewis and Ritchie.

Sutter doesn't like Valimaki, so we waive him.

Doesn't like Ruzie, so he sits.

Ritchie having an off year, so we trade for another Ritchie in the Sutter mold.

We go from a playoff team that underperforms to a non playoff team that can't get ot together.

Don't look at the coaching, it must be the GM.

 

 

Gaudreau was blatantly obvious, absolutely blatantly obvious, we were talking about it here as far back as when he was a rookie, he never had any intentions of finishing his career here and made it very clear that he would go closer to home.

 

He was interviewed about it after the trade, responding to accusations that he led Calgary on.  He said, "I never led anyone on".   He's absolutely correct, we all knew this and talked about it and pretended to deny it years before it happened.   Also, we were never going to win a cup with Gaudreau and neither will any other team that has him in their lineup.

 

Tkachuk is a goofball and I'm glad we got rid of him no matter how many points he's racking up right now.   No team is going to win a cup with him on their roster.  No chance.  Couldn't care less who or what drove him out.

 

I am not concerned at all about Gaudreau or Tkachuk leaving, neither of them are building blocks imho.   Never were, never will be.    The only problem is getting ziltch for them.   For that, I blame BT entirely.

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Gaudreau was blatantly obvious, absolutely blatantly obvious, we were talking about it here as far back as when he was a rookie, he never had any intentions of finishing his career here and made it very clear that he would go closer to home.

 

He was interviewed about it after the trade, responding to accusations that he led Calgary on.  He said, "I never led anyone on".   He's absolutely correct, we all knew this and talked about it and pretended to deny it years before it happened.   Also, we were never going to win a cup with Gaudreau and neither will any other team that has him in their lineup.

 

Tkachuk is a goofball and I'm glad we got rid of him no matter how many points he's racking up right now.   No team is going to win a cup with him on their roster.  No chance.  Couldn't care less who or what drove him out.

 

I am not concerned at all about Gaudreau or Tkachuk leaving, neither of them are building blocks imho.   Never were, never will be.    The only problem is getting ziltch for them.   For that, I blame BT entirely.

 

 

Not leading anyone one is far different than letting it be known that he wants to leave.  Let's not bother debating the reasons why, though.  He is not going to be honest about it.  He respected Sutter, regardless of how he felt abput playing for him.

 

As far as Tkachuk, I was worried we were getting his father.  I think he played the team to a T.  His trade request was basically Team A.  Only interested in signing there.  The deal he signed was to make the trade happen, to get the extra year.  The return he got wasn't nothing even if you don't like it.  We got the 1st from them that was available.  

 

Maybe you don't win with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.  We didn't win with Iggy.  EDM hasn't won with CMD.  MTL didn't win with Price.  TOR hasn't won with AM, MM and JT.  The biggest thing setting us back was the Neal signing and the subsequent Lucic trade.  A GM mistake followed by ownership demands to make a trade for less money.  We have a 2M Lucic like player (Reaves level ability) and we can make better trades than Jarnkrok.  We miss out on Stone because we won't give up Valimaki.  A player deemed useles by Sutter.  We miss out on Eichel because we won't give up something of better value.  Ownership needs to sign off on some types of trades, because it involves high salaries. 

 

The GM is not without fault.  The tendency to keep long standing players is a fault.  The owners look at fan faves as revenue.  Gaudreau sells seats and jerseys.  Backlund is forever a Flame.  Etc.  

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not leading anyone one is far different than letting it be known that he wants to leave.  Let's not bother debating the reasons why, though.  He is not going to be honest about it.  He respected Sutter, regardless of how he felt abput playing for him.

 

As far as Tkachuk, I was worried we were getting his father.  I think he played the team to a T.  His trade request was basically Team A.  Only interested in signing there.  The deal he signed was to make the trade happen, to get the extra year.  The return he got wasn't nothing even if you don't like it.  We got the 1st from them that was available.  

 

Maybe you don't win with Gaudreau and Tkachuk.  We didn't win with Iggy.  EDM hasn't won with CMD.  MTL didn't win with Price.  TOR hasn't won with AM, MM and JT.  The biggest thing setting us back was the Neal signing and the subsequent Lucic trade.  A GM mistake followed by ownership demands to make a trade for less money.  We have a 2M Lucic like player (Reaves level ability) and we can make better trades than Jarnkrok.  We miss out on Stone because we won't give up Valimaki.  A player deemed useles by Sutter.  We miss out on Eichel because we won't give up something of better value.  Ownership needs to sign off on some types of trades, because it involves high salaries. 

 

The GM is not without fault.  The tendency to keep long standing players is a fault.  The owners look at fan faves as revenue.  Gaudreau sells seats and jerseys.  Backlund is forever a Flame.  Etc.  

 

Agreed with pretty much all of this.  honestly Gaudreau and Tkachuk are almost too painful to talk about, and a big reason why I lost my mind in here a few times, a few years ago, because it was so obvious what was happening.

 

Again I never wanted either of them here permanently, but I did want a return for them.

 

Moving from Gaudreau because yes that's not a fun convo, we have Tkachuk.

 

Tkachuk was also interviewed after.  He didn't blame the coach, he straight up blamed the GM.  And although I think he's a nut and a cancer, I think he was being legit honest.

 

He said he originally wanted to sign long term here.   But the team didn't want to sign him long term because they were more interested in "winning now", and making risky moves with cap space than signing him long term.

 

As a younger player with a long future ahead of him, he found this off-setting.

 

And as much as he is a cancer, I agree with him here.  I think most young talents his age (I think 20, 21 at the time?) would have had the same concern.  It was weird.  And it was the GM or higher.

 

Anyway that's both players pointing directly at the GM in their post-trade interviews.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed with pretty much all of this.  honestly Gaudreau and Tkachuk are almost too painful to talk about, and a big reason why I lost my mind in here a few times, a few years ago, because it was so obvious what was happening.

 

Again I never wanted either of them here permanently, but I did want a return for them.

 

Moving from Gaudreau because yes that's not a fun convo, we have Tkachuk.

 

Tkachuk was also interviewed after.  He didn't blame the coach, he straight up blamed the GM.  And although I think he's a nut and a cancer, I think he was being legit honest.

 

He said he originally wanted to sign long term here.   But the team didn't want to sign him long term because they were more interested in "winning now", and making risky moves with cap space than signing him long term.

 

As a younger player with a long future ahead of him, he found this off-setting.

 

And as much as he is a cancer, I agree with him here.  I think most young talents his age (I think 20, 21 at the time?) would have had the same concern.  It was weird.  And it was the GM or higher.

 

Anyway that's both players pointing directly at the GM in their post-trade interviews.

 

What Tkachuk says should only be taken with a grain of salt.

One day he says he longed to play in FLA due to the lifestyle.

Then he says he wanted to be long term here.

He negotiated a contract where he would be in full control to define his future.

All he had to do was sign the QO.

He didn't so that he could be traded to his one team.

 

Tkachuk family tactics are well known.

I neither believe what he says nor blame him for being a jerk.

[jjgallow]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

What Tkachuk says should only be taken with a grain of salt.

One day he says he longed to play in FLA due to the lifestyle.

Then he says he wanted to be long term here.

He negotiated a contract where he would be in full control to define his future.

All he had to do was sign the QO.

He didn't so that he could be traded to his one team.

 

Tkachuk family tactics are well known.

I neither believe what he says nor blame him for being a jerk.

 

that's fair lol.

 

and to that point, I can see why Treliving didn't sign him long term.   But i mean... all it does is just further beg the question of why he wasn't traded earlier for a return.

[travel_dude]

20/20 hindsight.

What impact did Sutter have on these two?

No idea.

When faced with a choice of trading a devalued Gaudreau after a ho-hum season, locking him up over value, and waiting for the right time to sign him, BT chose the latter.  Did he even have the ability to trade the fan fave Gaudreau.  Owners saw seat sales go through the roof, compared to a re-building team.  Tkachuk was likely just biding his time to see how much he could get elsewhere.  We don't know how much Tkachuk liked or hated playing under Sutter. Paul M. may be no better to play for, but hey he sees bikinis all day long.  Drives to work in a golf cart. 

 

I will more fault BT for the other things he did that weren't related to the owners or the coach.  After Burkie left.  Trading Fox way before he was included in the Dougie trade.  Getting a haul from NY for him.  I doubt they pay that much since they could just wait it out.  Neal signing.  Brouwer signing.  Both are predicated on the belief we are a playoff team needing certain things.  Again, where did that decision come from.  I never like trading a 1st.  We struggle to win those trades.  The Elliott trade was bad too, and the Smith trade.          

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

20/20 hindsight.

What impact did Sutter have on these two?

No idea.

When faced with a choice of trading a devalued Gaudreau after a ho-hum season, locking him up over value, and waiting for the right time to sign him, BT chose the latter.  Did he even have the ability to trade the fan fave Gaudreau.  Owners saw seat sales go through the roof, compared to a re-building team.  Tkachuk was likely just biding his time to see how much he could get elsewhere.  We don't know how much Tkachuk liked or hated playing under Sutter. Paul M. may be no better to play for, but hey he sees bikinis all day long.  Drives to work in a golf cart. 

 

I will more fault BT for the other things he did that weren't related to the owners or the coach.  After Burkie left.  Trading Fox way before he was included in the Dougie trade.  Getting a haul from NY for him.  I doubt they pay that much since they could just wait it out.  Neal signing.  Brouwer signing.  Both are predicated on the belief we are a playoff team needing certain things.  Again, where did that decision come from.  I never like trading a 1st.  We struggle to win those trades.  The Elliott trade was bad too, and the Smith trade.          

 

Well I'm not going to argue with any of your criticisms lol, you are bang on there imho.

 

but with 20/20 hindsight, we're talking about a guy who was literally bragging in public about screwing over NHL teams (and their fans) at contract time.

 

I think it's very hard at that point to call that clown dishonest.  Could have called him many things but he was being more than honest.   He should have been traded the same week and me losing my mind in here after those comments is well documented lol.    I find it very hard to believe that this was the first time BT was exposed to who this kid was.

[travel_dude]

Back to the topic.

How many coaches with this disappointing a season survive the coaching purges in the NHL.

It's not like VGK had last year where injuries completely derailed their season.

Every team faces roster changes.

While we lost two 40+ goal scorers, we got back a solid D and a 100+ points player.

And we gained a top 6 C coming off a career year.

 

Not much you can do about two goalies that somehow completely lost their minds.

Except maybe adjust.

Nothing has changed this season in the way the Flames play.

Roll line but don't worry about matchups so much.

Play a man on man D-zone that only seems to work if the goalie is performing.

Shot volume from anywhere.

Gotta be greasy goals instead of fast attack on the rush.

 

Obviously, the players are a big part in what has happened.

Some games it looks like they don't show up.

Others it just looks like we are content with just outshooting, not taking quality shot.

 

The counter argument is that the coach knew what he had.

Play the same structure that was used when he had a top line scoring 120+ goals.

Gotta play a perfect game, but have never played a perfect game.

Continue to play a line that is getting dominated.

Go to the starter when the starter is not performing.

Obvious coaching decisions not paying off.

Push players away that don't fit his narrow view of players.

Make decisions on prospects based on a limited training camp.

Vets don't need to prove anything.

 

Regardless of what player moves we make this summer, coaching has a direct impact to next season.

Is this the best we can expect, considering we have to make cuts in personnel?

 

 

[cross16]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:51 AM, travel_dude said:

20/20 hindsight.

What impact did Sutter have on these two?

No idea.

 

 

Gaudreau loved Sutter but I don't think Tkachuk and Sutter got along well. He's made comments since he left that allude to the two of them not seeing eye to eye. Commetns around his ice time, playing in OT etc and I Sutter's never taken a shot at Gaudreau like he did with Tkachuk.  He also went out of his way to praise Maurice when he got to Florida. 

 

He's also gone out of his way to praise Treliving and call him a friend. 

 

Kind of like how Gaudreau's own parents have said even they thought he was signing in Calgary. Funny how obvious it was to everyone else though. https://dailyhive.com/calgary/johnny-gaudreau-parents-stay-flames

 

Hindsight indeed.

 

[robrob74]

26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Gaudreau loved Sutter but I don't think Tkachuk and Sutter got along well. He's made comments since he left that allude to the two of them not seeing eye to eye. Commetns around his ice time, playing in OT etc and I Sutter's never taken a shot at Gaudreau like he did with Tkachuk.  He also went out of his way to praise Maurice when he got to Florida. 

 

He's also gone out of his way to praise Treliving and call him a friend. 

 

Kind of like how Gaudreau's own parents have said even they thought he was signing in Calgary. Funny how obvious it was to everyone else though. https://dailyhive.com/calgary/johnny-gaudreau-parents-stay-flames

 

Hindsight indeed.

 

I don't think hindsight at all. When there are seeds of doubt then there is always a possibility either way. And that is the gamble. It just depends on what side of the coin fans sit. The fact that there was doubt, I wasn't willing to take that chance, BT was. And sure they were close, but close is like a 2-1 game and he took it to OT and we ultimately lost. He was close to signing. Almost scoring in OT but still failing to & then getting scored on is still a loss. 
 

Just because it didn't go down that he left outright like Tkachuk doesn't change the fact that him leaving was always a higher than likely possibility. BT not trading him at the TDL or prior to the season without a contract was BT's fault. It didn't happen, he didn't get get it done.