Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[sak22]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Can we redo the rest of that draft?lol

Crazy that we've had 7 first rounders at some point.  Funny a lot of people wanted Lazar to fall to our 2nd or 3rd picks and then there was a bit of outrage when they passed on Shinkaruk to take Poirier.  I was really hoping for a chance at Morrissey with the late picks, definitely wasn't ideal to come away with 2 LW's in that year.  Overall 2013 was a good draft, it was unfortunately advertised as a great one.

[CheersMan]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

so Far it seems under BT we've had more success drafting smaller players. Ruzicka is different from that model, but is he an outlier? Ras isn't small but isn't huge. It's hard to say whether Kylington is a success yet as he had one really good half last year and an okay second half. Tkachuk has good size but is a player that kind of fell on the Flames lap when Vancouver didn't draft him.  Monahan was kind of a no brainer too, but could have had Lindholm instead and who would've been in the Hamilton deal otherwise? Not many drafted flames otherwise within the lineup.

Mang, Backs, Dube, Pelletier, Ruzicka, Andersson, Kylington were drafted Flame players.

Hubs, Lindholm, Hanifin, Weegar, Vladar, Zadorov acquired with Flames drafts.

JG was a drafted player, when he gave us the one finger salute it allowed us to sign Kadri.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Crazy that we've had 7 first rounders at some point.  Funny a lot of people wanted Lazar to fall to our 2nd or 3rd picks and then there was a bit of outrage when they passed on Shinkaruk to take Poirier.  I was really hoping for a chance at Morrissey with the late picks, definitely wasn't ideal to come away with 2 LW's in that year.  Overall 2013 was a good draft, it was unfortunately advertised as a great one.

 

Think you missed one.  Kerby Rychel.  So we had or traded for a total of 8.

All we have to show for it is Lindy and Zaddy.

[tmac70]

The big albatros contract in the room right now is Mags. His production and performance is more like a 2.5 - 3 Million player. I see Weegar and Hubie trending righ now as the get more an more comfortable. Our largest issue on this team is Lucic as a top 6 forward, players not playing to their capabilites and piss poor goal tending. 

 

[conundrumed]

42 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Crazy that we've had 7 first rounders at some point.  Funny a lot of people wanted Lazar to fall to our 2nd or 3rd picks and then there was a bit of outrage when they passed on Shinkaruk to take Poirier.  I was really hoping for a chance at Morrissey with the late picks, definitely wasn't ideal to come away with 2 LW's in that year.  Overall 2013 was a good draft, it was unfortunately advertised as a great one.

That's a fun draft to look back on. A bit of everything all over the place. Weegar 7th rd, 2 great goalies Good dmen and some solid fwds after the 1st rd.

If only we could measure the drive and work ethic in 17-18yos on a near equal footing with talent, we'd be set!

[sak22]

39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Think you missed one.  Kerby Rychel.  So we had or traded for a total of 8.

All we have to show for it is Lindy and Zaddy.

I remembered him, I just forgot how to count.

 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The big albatros contract in the room right now is Mags. His production and performance is more like a 2.5 - 3 Million player. I see Weegar and Hubie trending righ now as the get more an more comfortable. Our largest issue on this team is Lucic as a top 6 forward, players not playing to their capabilites and piss poor goal tending. 

 

 

The albatross is a coach that is forcing the GM to get players in trades or FA, instead of promoting from within.

Duehr replaces 90% of what Lucic brings.

Ruzie was good enough to be a p/gp in the top 6.

Valimaki had to be waived because Sutter couldn't stand him.

Had no desire to work with him.

 

Mangiapane sucked playing anywhere but with Backlund.

Did we overpay?  Not really, he got market value.

He's not scoring at the rate of a $5M+ player right now, but then again most aren't.

 

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I remembered him, I just forgot how to count.

 

 

You had me at 7.  I actually forgot about 1st rounder Kerby.

That was almost as short as Milano's time here.

 

[conundrumed]

24 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The big albatros contract in the room right now is Mags. His production and performance is more like a 2.5 - 3 Million player. I see Weegar and Hubie trending righ now as the get more an more comfortable. Our largest issue on this team is Lucic as a top 6 forward, players not playing to their capabilites and piss poor goal tending. 

 

In 17 losses, the team has 1 goal or less in SEVEN of them. Go to 2 goals or less, That's THIRTEEN!! Out of 17 losses.

If Markstrom doesn't pick up his offence, we should get rid of him.

Hard to blame goatending without fixing whatever you want to call that in front of him.

"It's a 2-1, 3-2 league" is a horrible philosophy.

[sak22]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You had me at 7.  I actually forgot about 1st rounder Kerby.

That was almost as short as Milano's time here.

 

The sad part is the 6 not named Lindholm or Monahan have contributed 16 goals for the Flames, Zadorov has 11 of them and 7 this year.

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

In 17 losses, the team has 1 goal or less in SEVEN of them. Go to 2 goals or less, That's THIRTEEN!! Out of 17 losses.

If Markstrom doesn't pick up his offence, we should get rid of him.

Hard to blame goatending without fixing whatever you want to call that in front of him.

"It's a 2-1, 3-2 league" is a horrible philosophy.

 

Easy to look at results of your own games and declare it's league wide.

Perhaps if you set up your best passer (in Sutter's own words) with elite players, we might score more.

The man on man coverage seems to confuse players when a switch is made.

If it was working, then it might be a great strategy.

Assuming everyone can figure out who gets who.

How many times do we see two D covering one guy and a man is left open?

"You got him? I will get him".

 

As far as offense, that is the right word for it, an offence.  

Down by 3, we are hooped.

Dump and lose seems to be the standard play.

Try to win the puck back.

Let's try for just the greasy goals.
Shoot at the goalie from any angle and hope for a rebound

To stop the Flames, all a goalie needs to do is catch that weak shot.

Play over.

 

The GM makes the trades and signs players based on scouting.

We should ask the league for a free week to try out a trade target.

See if they can play for Sutter.

Many can't.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The sad part is the 6 not named Lindholm or Monahan have contributed 16 goals for the Flames, Zadorov has 11 of them and 7 this year.

 

Can you imagine if COL had traded the 1st OA to us?

MacKinnon and Gaudreau forever.

[pikey7883]

There are many scouting gaffes, made by all organizations. But since you brought up JG…….

For me that year (2011), we missed atrociously.
In the 1st round we took Baertschi (which I’m actually ok with), because he was taken roughly where he was supposed to go, he didn’t pan out, but it happens.

In the 2nd round we had two picks, where we took granlund and wotherspoon. 
I have on good authority that someone in the flames organization had identified that the two must have players for them was Gaudreau and Kucherov. But because we took Baertschi and Granlund already, Burke said that a defenseman has to be taken next, and thus Kucherov escaped us.

That one burns me

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

... Burke said that a defenseman has to be taken next, and thus Kucherov escaped us.

...

 

Definitely not Burke, as he didn't join the organization until 2013.

 

Love.

[pikey7883]

41 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Definitely not Burke, as he didn't join the organization until 2013.

 

Love.

You are right, my apologies. Craig Conroy was telling me the story, and he said that they had decided before the draft that there too two targets were Johnny and Kuch. But when the time came, someone said they had to take a d-man, maybe that was feaster? 🤷‍♂️

I apologize for not being more factual. That was my bad.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

You are right, my apologies. Craig Conroy was telling me the story, and he said that they had decided before the draft that there too two targets were Johnny and Kuch. But when the time came, someone said they had to take a d-man, maybe that was feaster? 🤷‍♂️

I apologize for not being more factual. That was my bad.

Feaster or Weisbrod?

[sak22]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Feaster or Weisbrod?

Weisbrod joined after that draft, very shortly after.  I only remember because he did say that he was still working the Bruins draft and they were prepared to take Gaudreau with their next pick before the Flames took him.

 

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

You are right, my apologies. Craig Conroy was telling me the story, and he said that they had decided before the draft that there too two targets were Johnny and Kuch. But when the time came, someone said they had to take a d-man, maybe that was feaster? 🤷‍♂️

I apologize for not being more factual. That was my bad.

[jjgallow]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:31 PM, robrob74 said:

Feaster or Weisbrod?

 

there's the real question.   I actually never minded Feaster's drafting decisions that badly but this would change that.   My money's on Weisbrod though.

 

It just wasn't a good year to draft defensemen.   Generally, defense are the steal of the draft, but not that one.

 

Kucherov:  It was obvious how good he was.

 

          This year, again, there will be obvious Russian talent that gets pushed down a round.   Will be interesting to see which teams learn from the past.

 

Hopefully this post doesn't come back to haunt me on some kind of tactical nuke launch but I think you've got better odds staying out of politics and drafting hockey based on hockey.

[CheersMan]

25 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

there's the real question.   I actually never minded Feaster's drafting decisions that badly but this would change that.   My money's on Weisbrod though.

 

It just wasn't a good year to draft defensemen.   Generally, defense are the steal of the draft, but not that one.

 

Kucherov:  It was obvious how good he was.

 

          This year, again, there will be obvious Russian talent that gets pushed down a round.   Will be interesting to see which teams learn from the past.

 

Hopefully this post doesn't come back to haunt me on some kind of tactical nuke launch but I think you've got better odds staying out of politics and drafting hockey based on hockey.

 

Kucherov is the exception, not the rule. Lightning strikes occasionally but there are far more cloudy days;

-Nikolai Zherdev, 4th overall

-Alexander Svitov, 3rd overall

-Nikolay Goldobin, 27th overall

-Ivan Novoseltsev, 14th overall

-Maxim Afinogenov, 69th overall

-Nail Yakapov, 1st overall

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

 

Kucherov is the exception, not the rule. Lightning strikes occasionally but there are far more cloudy days;

-Nikolai Zherdev, 4th overall

-Alexander Svitov, 3rd overall

-Nikolay Goldobin, 27th overall

-Ivan Novoseltsev, 14th overall

-Maxim Afinogenov, 69th overall

-Nail Yakapov, 1st overall

 

Sure, but if a team could have all those picks back and the opportunity to trade them all for Kucherov, they would 100% do the trade.  

 

So that's that.

[cross16]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:31 PM, robrob74 said:

Feaster or Weisbrod?

 

Craig Button. Feaster had very little to do with decisions made at the draft. Basically told button it's your show. To give Feaster some credit he did take away a lot of the shackles that Sutter had put in place and let him draft whomever he and the team thought were the best players but when it came to selections it was up to Button, the staff and the list. 

 

Kucherov was simply a calculated risk that the Flames got wrong. He was under contract to CSKA Moscow and at the time it was not well known if he planned to play in the NHL or stay in Russia. Flames put he and Gaudreau on a wild card list because they weren't sure where to rank them due to the risks involve (size for Gaudreau, contract status for Kucherov). They thought they could get them much later once their actual list was done but Lightning beat them, and everyone else, to it. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Craig Button. Feaster had very little to do with decisions made at the draft. Basically told button it's your show. To give Feaster some credit he did take away a lot of the shackles that Sutter had put in place and let him draft whomever he and the team thought were the best players but when it came to selections it was up to Button, the staff and the list. 

 

Kucherov was simply a calculated risk that the Flames got wrong. He was under contract to CSKA Moscow and at the time it was not well known if he planned to play in the NHL or stay in Russia. Flames put he and Gaudreau on a wild card list because they weren't sure where to rank them due to the risks involve (size for Gaudreau, contract status for Kucherov). They thought they could get them much later once their actual list was done but Lightning beat them, and everyone else, to it. 

 

I understood that, but the thoughts that they had the other Granlund and Wotherspoon ranked so high is troubling.  No doubt that the scouting of Baertschi had something to do with Wotherspoon.

 

TBH, I'm not sure why we are going down this rabbit hole with BT.  Draft picks since BT has been the overseer of the draft is more appropriate.  I would say that began a year after he joined the Flames.  Post Mason MacDonald/Hunter Smith draft.

[conundrumed]

On the whole it's amazing what an atrocity our drafting was until about 2015. Prior to that was pretty much a black hole of ouch.

[redfire11]

As per rumour in 2013 Feaster offered the Avs our 6 22 28 OA for #1 oa. We would have a different opinion of Feaster if that would have gone through.