Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[cross16]

1 minute ago, redfire11 said:

As per rumour in 2013 Feaster offered the Avs our 6 22 28 OA for #1 oa. We would have a different opinion of Feaster if that would have gone through. 

 

Not sure why. It didn't go through because it wasn't a strong enough offer. Believe it was reported the Avs never even gave it much thought and said no immediately, which was the correct call. 

 

He also was rumored to have offered Gaudreau and the 6OA for Tyler Seguin, and came close to loving the 6 OA for Ryan O'Reilly. For pretty much every good Feaster story you can find 2-3 bad ones so not sure the opinion on him would ever, or will ever, change. 

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not sure why. It didn't go through because it wasn't a strong enough offer. Believe it was reported the Avs never even gave it much thought and said no immediately, which was the correct call. 

 

He also was rumored to have offered Gaudreau and the 6OA for Tyler Seguin, and came close to loving the 6 OA for Ryan O'Reilly. For pretty much every good Feaster story you can find 2-3 bad ones so not sure the opinion on him would ever, or will ever, change. 

I am definitely not a Feaster fan now or THEN.  But then I havn't been close to being a Calgary GM fan until Trevling and he has proven better than what we have had.

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, redfire11 said:

As per rumour in 2013 Feaster offered the Avs our 6 22 28 OA for #1 oa. We would have a different opinion of Feaster if that would have gone through. 

Maybe, IF he would

have drafted McKinnon…god knows with feaster he may have traded those picks and drafted Brutuzzi 1st OA 

[jjgallow]

 

"win now"

[The_People1]

Do you guys think Craig Conroy could take over as GM next season?  And would he be a good GM?

[conundrumed]

NYR Asst GM

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2021/08/13/ryan-martin-leaving-red-wings-rangers-front-office-job/8124066002/

[cross16]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Do you guys think Craig Conroy could take over as GM next season?  And would he be a good GM?

Don’t have much to base an opinion of whether or it be would be good but what I would say is I don’t see how the flames get better if they go to him. They already have a good GM so going from one good GM to another doesn’t do much for me. 
 

if the flames want to go in a different direction, and there’s merit to that opinion, then they need to be prepared to do things differently. They need to either be ok with a deep rebuild or you need to hire someone who will do things different and maximize value for a small market team.  Someone like Eric Tulsky from the Canes. 

hiring Conroy, or someone like him, is just going with the same plan and your hoping he’s a better talent evaluator, is just change for the sake of change. I don’t get it. 

 

[The_People1]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Don’t have much to base an opinion of whether or it be would be good but what I would say is I don’t see how the flames get better if they go to him. They already have a good GM so going from one good GM to another doesn’t do much for me. 
 

if the flames want to go in a different direction, and there’s merit to that opinion, then they need to be prepared to do things differently. They need to either be ok with a deep rebuild or you need to hire someone who will do things different and maximize value for a small market team.  Someone like Eric Tulsky from the Canes. 

hiring Conroy, or someone like him, is just going with the same plan and your hoping he’s a better talent evaluator, is just change for the sake of change. I don’t get it. 

 

 

True enough.  If the ownership group insists on building a team that only goes a round or two every year and doesn't invest in a deep and long rebuild, then it doesn't matter who is GM.  We should get very similar results. 

 

The Canes way is the way to go.  Keep cycling in young players and letting go of older/UFA players.  Never overspend on older veterans.

[tmac70]

40 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Don’t have much to base an opinion of whether or it be would be good but what I would say is I don’t see how the flames get better if they go to him. They already have a good GM so going from one good GM to another doesn’t do much for me. 
 

if the flames want to go in a different direction, and there’s merit to that opinion, then they need to be prepared to do things differently. They need to either be ok with a deep rebuild or you need to hire someone who will do things different and maximize value for a small market team.  Someone like Eric Tulsky from the Canes. 

hiring Conroy, or someone like him, is just going with the same plan and your hoping he’s a better talent evaluator, is just change for the sake of change. I don’t get it. 

 

I agree if Conroy has mentored under Tre and it would be more of a temporary thing. If you're going to change then it needs to be a very different approach. What needs to be recreated here is what Boston has, a culture of players that are willing to stay and play for an organization with a pay structure that is suited to benefit the whole, not just the individual. Players there understand the cap system the commitment to excel and want to win championships not just get a nice fluffy contract and coast to retirement. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

I agree if Conroy has mentored under Tre and it would be more of a temporary thing. If you're going to change then it needs to be a very different approach. What needs to be recreated here is what Boston has, a culture of players that are willing to stay and play for an organization with a pay structure that is suited to benefit the whole, not just the individual. Players there understand the cap system the commitment to excel and want to win championships not just get a nice fluffy contract and coast to retirement. 

 

Easy to look at another team and suggest that everyone is singing Cumbaya.

BOS is and has been a contender for a long time.

They love beating TOR every year.

Besides McAvoy signed for 9.5M and Pasta is set to get paid at least Tkachuk money if not Hubey money.

Are they worth it?  Of course.

Bergeron signed a short deal at age 37.

Not exactly the all for the team view.

 

I just think that we don't have the team that can preach all for the team.

You don't have the winning pedigree that makes players agree to discounts.

It's in the North and the tax structure is prohibitive.

If you want to build a team like you suggest, then there won't be any UFA's coming.

We would need to draft the team and make trades for nobodies.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Pasta is set to get paid at least Tkachuk money if not Hubey money.

Likely more than Huberdeau money.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Likely more than Huberdeau money.

 

Well, I was being generous.  He's certainly not about to give a hometown discount.

Nor do I blame him.

 

[cross16]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:20 AM, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

The Canes way is the way to go.  Keep cycling in young players and letting go of older/UFA players.  Never overspend on older veterans.

 

They are creative too. Took on Burns for nothing and he's been a tremendous fit. Use cap space as a weapon. Just a really, really well run org IMO. 

 

Tulsky is probably the only GM out there I would want over Treliving. If the Flames want to make a change after this season, and again merit to that decision, the list isn't that exciting outside of Tulsky IMO which is part of the reason that despite how this season has gone i'm not in a rush to move on from Treliving. 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They are creative too. Took on Burns for nothing and he's been a tremendous fit. Use cap space as a weapon. Just a really, really well run org IMO. 

 

Tulsky is probably the only GM out there I would want over Treliving. If the Flames want to make a change after this season, and again merit to that decision, the list isn't that exciting outside of Tulsky IMO which is part of the reason that despite how this season has gone i'm not in a rush to move on from Treliving. 

 

If the decision is to place the blame for the season on the GM, then it's a bad one.

Sure you can point to the contracts given out or the UFA signings, but those are small parts of the team.

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

They are creative too. Took on Burns for nothing and he's been a tremendous fit. Use cap space as a weapon. Just a really, really well run org IMO. 

 

Tulsky is probably the only GM out there I would want over Treliving. If the Flames want to make a change after this season, and again merit to that decision, the list isn't that exciting outside of Tulsky IMO which is part of the reason that despite how this season has gone i'm not in a rush to move on from Treliving. 

 

I'm thinking many GMs have the ability to do this but it's always the owners who rush results and push for the playoffs for monetary reasons.  Things need to change at the ownership level.  Patience is really needed.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

They are creative too. Took on Burns for nothing and he's been a tremendous fit. Use cap space as a weapon. Just a really, really well run org IMO. 

 

Tulsky is probably the only GM out there I would want over Treliving. If the Flames want to make a change after this season, and again merit to that decision, the list isn't that exciting outside of Tulsky IMO which is part of the reason that despite how this season has gone i'm not in a rush to move on from Treliving. 

All I can say to that is how much of that is coaching? I get the getting great value out of middling players. Burns will be 40 when his contract expires. The Canes strength has ALWAYS been solid D play. If they didn't have Burns, would it be much different?

Not saying Tulsky wouldn't be of interest, I just think the credit is overstated. Doesn't hurt having one of the best coaches in the league and solid drafts.

[tmac70]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm thinking many GMs have the ability to do this but it's always the owners who rush results and push for the playoffs for monetary reasons.  Things need to change at the ownership level.  Patience is really needed.

It's a business that needs to make money, patience is not in the cards. So if I told you to look, Peeps, we need to be patient, your comments would be how much,  how long, and what my  ROI is in the end.  It's a gamble, that you get a franchise guy, the right players to become competitive and injuries don't happen and they play well enough to make noise, odds are 70/30 that this happens. Or you spend to the cap hoping you get the right players, and pay to make said players stay all in hopes that you get to the playoffs and have a miracle postseason like 2004. Odds are 50/50 on that. 

 

We have never tanked to the point we obtained a generational player for this club and never will the cost factor is too much and has never worked. Really we have had 1-4th and 2- 6th place draft choices in the past 8 years, none of which play here. JG and MT  put Hash Rate in the seats at the Dome, they were Edwards's ticket to sales, can understand why he lost his Satoshi Nakamoto when they left.

 

Whoever gets Bedard is acquiring a cash cow, he puts Hash Rate in the seats. Prime example Beadrd played in the Dome and sold out a junior game. So the dome had 18,000 plus to see a kid in Junior play, not the teams. He didn't disappoint either. Who do we have that is a huge drawing card to put Hash Rate in the Dome or on the road, Kadri, Huberdeau, Pelts lol. When CGY comes to town outside of family and friends no one is knocking down doors to get tickets. 

[cross16]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

All I can say to that is how much of that is coaching? I get the getting great value out of middling players. Burns will be 40 when his contract expires. The Canes strength has ALWAYS been solid D play. If they didn't have Burns, would it be much different?

Not saying Tulsky wouldn't be of interest, I just think the credit is overstated. Doesn't hurt having one of the best coaches in the league and solid drafts.

but who is helping with those drafts? Who keeps stocking the team with solid talent to allow Rod to be a good coach?

 

I think the Canes do the best job in the league of synthesizing their operation  from the top down. Yes I agree Rod is a good coach but I think the success of that franchise has a lot to do with the front office brining in solid players that really fit the system. This allows him to be a good coach and for them to be consistent year after year because the fit always seems to be there. It’s a really good operation that goes beyond just having a good coach. 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

but who is helping with those drafts? Who keeps stocking the team with solid talent so allow Rod to be a good coach?

 

I think the Canes do the best job in the league of synthesizing their operation  from the top down. Yes I agree Rod he a good coach but I think the success is Lott due to the fact that the front office does a fanatic job or continuing to bring in good players and players they fit what Rod wants to do. It’s a really good operation that goes beyond just having a good coach. 

Fair enough. I believe Tulsky was always their analytics guy until the Asst GM gig a year ago. So I'm uncertain on his background with scouting. I get the analytics aspect to drafting, it plays a role, but it's not driving the bus. Then there's contract negotiations and cap mgmt and I'm altogether unknowing if all of the legalese aspects of managing are in his toolbox. No argument from me that Tulsky definitely makes their staff better.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm thinking many GMs have the ability to do this but it's always the owners who rush results and push for the playoffs for monetary reasons.  Things need to change at the ownership level.  Patience is really needed.

i agree!

 

id hate to trade too 3 drafts all the time and have no great prospects to go forward with, as often as we do. I wonder if we even just decided to now keep draft picks and concentrate on development and graduate players accordingly. I mentioned wanting to be like Carolina awhile ago so agree that is the way to go. 
 

we seemed to draft better once we started having direction or listened to what the scouts had to say instead of whatever we seemed to be doing before Feaster. That seemed to be the turning point, even though he was horrible in most ways. 
 

if we believe in our scouting, and up European scouting, then keep picks, build as we go from here. We aren't going to ever rebuild until it is absolutely needed.

 

I want what we have now to continue to mentor the youth. Possible Sutter isn't the guy for that. Albeit, he likes guys who play with good consistent effort and skill.
 

So how do we find that in the draft? 

I think concentrating on the draft is the way to go. We've traded too many picks away over the years, in a rebuild. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i agree!

 

id hate to trade too 3 drafts all the time and have no great prospects to go forward with, as often as we do. I wonder if we even just decided to now keep draft picks and concentrate on development and graduate players accordingly. I mentioned wanting to be like Carolina awhile ago so agree that is the way to go. 
 

we seemed to draft better once we started having direction or listened to what the scouts had to say instead of whatever we seemed to be doing before Feaster. That seemed to be the turning point, even though he was horrible in most ways. 
 

if we believe in our scouting, and up European scouting, then keep picks, build as we go from here. We aren't going to ever rebuild until it is absolutely needed.

 

I want what we have now to continue to mentor the youth. Possible Sutter isn't the guy for that. Albeit, he likes guys who play with good consistent effort and skill.
 

So how do we find that in the draft? 

I think concentrating on the draft is the way to go. We've traded too many picks away over the years, in a rebuild. 

 

I'm not that impressed with our Euro scouts.  Have they hit on anything yet?

Stromgren is the closest we have to a high level one, maybe Ronni.

Neither is impressing.

Conundrumed can comment on the quality of scouting in NA.

I think we seem to do better with late picks.

The top 3 rounds are meh at times.

 

No, I don't think we have the right coach.

I don't really care what he says about 10 over or 10 below.

And his comments continue to sound dumb.

Pelletier, after a GWG and assist, Sutter said that's what he needs to do.

That's why he's getting the minutes, to score.

Really?  He hadn't scored in 7 games before his first point.

 

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not that impressed with our Euro scouts.  Have they hit on anything yet?

Stromgren is the closest we have to a high level one, maybe Ronni.

Neither is impressing.

Conundrumed can comment on the quality of scouting in NA.

I think we seem to do better with late picks.

The top 3 rounds are meh at times.

 

No, I don't think we have the right coach.

I don't really care what he says about 10 over or 10 below.

And his comments continue to sound dumb.

Pelletier, after a GWG and assist, Sutter said that's what he needs to do.

That's why he's getting the minutes, to score.

Really?  He hadn't scored in 7 games before his first point.

 

 

we got Andersson. I think he was in NA though, but is a Swede. 
 

I think the same, our hits, minus Tkachuk and Monahan, have been mostly 2nd round and beyond. 

[travel_dude]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

we got Andersson. I think he was in NA though, but is a Swede. 
 

I think the same, our hits, minus Tkachuk and Monahan, have been mostly 2nd round and beyond. 

Most of our good picks have been guys already in NA.

Andersson and Mange were on Barrie.

[cross16]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not that impressed with our Euro scouts.  Have they hit on anything yet?

 

 

 

This is what makes draft analysis tough because I would counter by saying have they missed on anyone?

 

From 2015 to 2020 they took 8 players outside of NA, only one of them was in the top 60 and that was Kylington. Think we'd agree they didn't miss on that one. Rasmus only played 1 year in Barrie so pretty fair to assume he was scouted heavily in Sweden too. 

 

Have to factor in opportunity there too, it's not just a scouting thing IMO. 

[robrob74]

43 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is what makes draft analysis tough because I would counter by saying have they missed on anyone?

 

From 2015 to 2020 they took 8 players outside of NA, only one of them was in the top 60 and that was Kylington. Think we'd agree they didn't miss on that one. Rasmus only played 1 year in Barrie so pretty fair to assume he was scouted heavily in Sweden too. 

 

Have to factor in opportunity there too, it's not just a scouting thing IMO. 

 

I actually don't know if I'd call Kylington a success yet. He has had one good year so far