Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yup. Here ends what always looked like a power struggle. There were instances where BT would say something publicly only to watch Sutter pour gasoline on it.

I'm actually happy for BT. Things calmed from appearing toxic with JG and MT leaving to even more toxic now.

 

maybe him going somewhere else and having success (which I think is likely) is what will force the ownership group to re evaluate their operations. 

 

I have zero problem with him leaving and would agree this is good for him. I think most in his position would do the same thing. 

 

now i'm really curious to see how deep this goes. Do Conroy/Pascall stay? how does this impact players?

 

Hard not to be dramatic here but this really feels like a pending disaster coming for this franchise. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I think BT made the decision to move on even before this season started. Maybe it was the Sutter extension?

 

but I believe it is due to not having professional autonomy to do what he wanted.

 

I think the wheels have been in motion for this for a while. I'm not sure if there is one thing you can point to but just too much smoke to show this is not a positive working environment. 

- Deals falling apart because owners won't approve

- Going above your head to hire a coach you didn't really want 

- Extending said coach

- having your coach blatantly contradict you in the media and pretty consistently blast the team you put together

- think on more than a few occasions the org threw him under the bus too. Not 1 person in this organization spoke about the Bill Peters situation, it was all Tree. COVID etc all Tree. last summer, all Tree. In all of those cases I think you'd expect an owners/president to at least have some say but outside of the odd mass email signed by John Bean you hear peep from anyone above Treliving. 

 

You can add autonomy to that too,I don't know if this as simple as autonym either. I think this is just an environment that Treliving just doesn't want to be a part of anymore and given how much respect he has in the league likely either has confidence (or already knows) there's a better spot for him out there 

[cross16]

So to recap in the last 10 months:

 

- Gaudreau turns down more money to leave

- Tkachuk leaves

- GM leaves

- More tenured Flame hints strongly he wants out

- most important UFA is pretty non committal about coming back. 

- Rumors of a growing list of players want out

- Flames are back to being a big of a laughing stock around the league approx. 10 years after they were trying to fix that.

 

And that's just the hockey side. Never mind the fact that they can't get an arena built.

 

I just don't see how any ownership group can possible sit there and think that things are going well, or that how they are operating is good. 

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think the wheels have been in motion for this for a while. I'm not sure if there is one thing you can point to but just too much smoke to show this is not a positive working environment. 

- Deals falling apart because owners won't approve

- Going above your head to hire a coach you didn't really want 

- Extending said coach

- having your coach blatantly contradict you in the media and pretty consistently blast the team you put together

- think on more than a few occasions the org threw him under the bus too. Not 1 person in this organization spoke about the Bill Peters situation, it was all Tree. COVID etc all Tree. last summer, all Tree. In all of those cases I think you'd expect an owners/president to at least have some say but outside of the odd mass email signed by John Bean you hear peep from anyone above Treliving. 

 

You can add autonomy to that too,I don't know if this as simple as autonym either. I think this is just an environment that Treliving just doesn't want to be a part of anymore and given how much respect he has in the league likely either has confidence (or already knows) there's a better spot for him out there 

 

When do you ever hear from Bean? Say what you want about the late Ken King, that guy was always willing to do media and face hard questions. 

 

I am not at all surprised to see Treliving leave and I am not at all surprised to see Maloney promoted. Do I think that they are the best moves no, probably not. I do think that it was probably time for both Treliving and the team to move on, whether the new GM can do better is questionable.

 

At the end of the day the organization as a whole lacks leadership and direction at the very top and until something changes I think we will see more of the same in the future.

[The_Tribal Chief]

there do a presser in a few bean is there

[jjgallow]

42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Hard not to be dramatic here but this really feels like a pending disaster coming for this franchise. 

 

Pre-existing and unfolding disaster.   Even by your own list of events.

 

this has to go rock bottom.   It always did.

 

Once we've all accepted that, then this is just another calculated step in the process.    Fixing owners is not easy.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Pre-existing and unfolding disaster.   Even by your own list of events.

 

this has to go rock bottom.   It always did.

 

Once we've all accepted that, then this is just another calculated step in the process.    Fixing owners is not easy.

 

That was supposed to be 2012/2013 and here were are barely 10 years later (and worse off IMO).

 

Part of the process or is this just THEE process for his org? I'm not so sure. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

well the only thing they changed was bt not coming back

 

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That was supposed to be 2012/2013 and here were are barely 10 years later (and worse off IMO).

 

Part of the process or is this just THEE process for his org? I'm not so sure. 

 

I've been pretty hard on Ken King in the past here.  A conflict for me because I knew him personally and knew him to be a very good person.   But didn't like the short term direction.   In hindsight, maybe he was dealing with something similar to BT, but had the ability to push back a little.   It's true, since has has passed the organization has felt even more rudderless.

 

No matter what happens today, this is not the end of the organization imho.   City's too big for that.  Even if it was, it would get resolved by another franchise in short order.

 

The hockey fans are here.   And they're not going anywhere.   Now we just need to wait for the owners to get their act together, or for new owners.

 

Tall order.  Requires a rock button.   But it's going to be fun on the way back up.   Admittedly, today is not quite rock bottom and yes, this new GM could make things even worse.   But we're close now.

[The_Tribal Chief]

No arena news according to John bean

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

So to recap in the last 10 months:

 

- Gaudreau turns down more money to leave

- Tkachuk leaves

- GM leaves

- More tenured Flame hints strongly he wants out

- most important UFA is pretty non committal about coming back. 

- Rumors of a growing list of players want out

- Flames are back to being a big of a laughing stock around the league approx. 10 years after they were trying to fix that.

 

And that's just the hockey side. Never mind the fact that they can't get an arena built.

 

I just don't see how any ownership group can possible sit there and think that things are going well, or that how they are operating is good. 

it was the first time I noticed a player say it, but one of them in the exit interviews when asked what could help players play and be comfortable as a flames player, in the dressing room, said that having a new arena would help. 

[Heartbreaker]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

So to recap in the last 10 months:

 

- Gaudreau turns down more money to leave

- Tkachuk leaves

- GM leaves

- More tenured Flame hints strongly he wants out

- most important UFA is pretty non committal about coming back. 

- Rumors of a growing list of players want out

- Flames are back to being a big of a laughing stock around the league approx. 10 years after they were trying to fix that.

 

And that's just the hockey side. Never mind the fact that they can't get an arena built.

 

I just don't see how any ownership group can possible sit there and think that things are going well, or that how they are operating is good. 

 

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I've been pretty hard on Ken King in the past here.  A conflict for me because I knew him personally and knew him to be a very good person.   But didn't like the short term direction.   In hindsight, maybe he was dealing with something similar to BT, but had the ability to push back a little.   It's true, since has has passed the organization has felt even more rudderless.

 

No matter what happens today, this is not the end of the organization imho.   City's too big for that.  Even if it was, it would get resolved by another franchise in short order.

 

The hockey fans are here.   And they're not going anywhere.   Now we just need to wait for the owners to get their act together, or for new owners.

 

Tall order.  Requires a rock button.   But it's going to be fun on the way back up.   Admittedly, today is not quite rock bottom and yes, this new GM could make things even worse.   But we're close now.

 

How does the Kansas City Flames or Houston Shuttles sound to you?

The we can get the Calgary Coyotes to make up for it.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I've been pretty hard on Ken King in the past here.  A conflict for me because I knew him personally and knew him to be a very good person.   But didn't like the short term direction.   In hindsight, maybe he was dealing with something similar to BT, but had the ability to push back a little.   It's true, since has has passed the organization has felt even more rudderless.

 

No matter what happens today, this is not the end of the organization imho.   City's too big for that.  Even if it was, it would get resolved by another franchise in short order.

 

The hockey fans are here.   And they're not going anywhere.   Now we just need to wait for the owners to get their act together, or for new owners.

 

Tall order.  Requires a rock button.   But it's going to be fun on the way back up.   Admittedly, today is not quite rock bottom and yes, this new GM could make things even worse.   But we're close now.

 

agree not a fear of mine in the slightest. 

 

All that today does for me is confirm what I've long feared, that I don't think this club is set up well for success due to the owners (well one of them). That is my main takeaway, for a long time I felt like I was making excuses for Treliving, change for me a while ago, and today I think is confirmation that those challenges that were rumored are true. 

 

so that's the negative part of me. I'll still welcome change and look forward to seeing who they hire and what excitement that will bring. 

[travel_dude]

So, Bean was on answering a question about lack of success and fans clamoring for a rebuild.

His answers are somewhat disturbing.

• take a breath and not overreact or underreact
• talk to players and look at analytics before making player decisions
• We had a Venza goalie last year and look forward to seeing again next season
• Lacklustre start but finished incredible
• Weegar put it together after struggling out of the gate
• great lineup that under performed

What do I take from that?  A whole lotta the same.

 

[jjgallow]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

How does the Kansas City Flames or Houston Shuttles sound to you?

The we can get the Calgary Coyotes to make up for it.

lol

[jjgallow]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

So, Bean was on answering a question about lack of success and fans clamoring for a rebuild.

His answers are somewhat disturbing.

• take a breath and not overreact or underreact
• talk to players and look at analytics before making player decisions
• We had a Venza goalie last year and look forward to seeing again next season
• Lacklustre start but finished incredible
• Weegar put it together after struggling out of the gate
• great lineup that under performed

What do I take from that?  A whole lotta the same.

 

 

I agree, it's the same.

 

What's different, this time, is that the majority of us find it disturbing, and not the minority.

 

In a forum like this that is die-hard loyal, that is telling.

 

In my mind, sometimes the best love is tough love.  And if the organization gets a little tough love from the fans for a while, that could actually be what is needed to get this train back on the tracks.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

lol

 

I was trying to be funny, but you know that Bettman would likely approve both of those moves.

Expanding the NHL to Texas or one of the KC cities was of interest.

The Flames could pull up stakes and move there, and get an arena for pennies.

Bettman would also be okay to moving the Yotes to Calgary.

Would be based on a arena deal being part of the move.

 

The you would at least get to see Bedard. 

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was trying to be funny, but you know that Bettman would likely approve both of those moves.

Expanding the NHL to Texas or one of the KC cities was of interest.

The Flames could pull up stakes and move there, and get an arena for pennies.

Bettman would also be okay to moving the Yotes to Calgary.

Would be based on a arena deal being part of the move.

 

The you would at least get to see Bedard. 

 

lol.   I am not worried, nor would this scenario bother me.  Hockey is here to stay.   It's bigger than owners.

 

It'll all work out, I just need to see that hard bounce off a bottom to know we're headed in the right direction.   We're close to it lol.

[LouCifer]

Thank you Brad. I appreciate all you’ve done and all you tried to do for this franchise. Unfortunately, you can’t get blood from a stone, right? I’m certain you would’ve liked to try on more than a few occasions from the relics we call ownership. 
 

You were able to attract talent to come and play in Calgary, Canada. Not an easy feat given the alternative destinations in the league. I’m grateful that you had plan A all the way through Z when it came to acquiring talent to help this team compete. 
 

I do hope to see you thrive with a franchise that lets you do what you believe can win a cup. And I do hope to see you have a cup in the future. 
 

Thank you Brad. We all know why you left. We won’t be far behind if this pattern continues. 

[tmac70]

From what I got out of this it was not a Sutter over Trevling decision, it was BT is mentally and Physically done. Unless you have been in a GM role you have no Fing idea how taxing it is on the body and health.  There isn't one factor where he would have made this decision its a collection of emotions good and bad for 9 years of an emotional roller coaster it's just a combination of millions of things, trust me it takes its toll physically and mentally.   His time here has expired, from what I got out of this, the club and owners offered and he turned it down, I get it. There is nothing and I mean nothing that is more liberating and freeing than what Trevling did by walking away. I would bet when he did it was like the world was lifted off his shoulders. He will be back at some time but I don't think he bailed here to go elsewhere.  Appreciate his time and wish him the best moving forward. 

 

With the rest of we are not done. Sutter isn't clear yet. Maloney having been involved with the exit meetings its all going to depend on how the notes align. IMHO, Bean is well-spoken and gets it. Take the information and process it. analysis and then base your decision on what the vision was, and who was ultimately responsible for their part. I can see a process where Sutter is returning with lots of caveats moving forward, he will be on a short leash in that they will have a list of here is what needs to change and they will hold him to it. Nobody is and I mean nobody is immune to what happened this year.  Who knows Sutter may do what Trevling did and go yeah this isn't what I signed up for or I am not on board with, I am out. Buckle up we are only just getting started. 

[taz89]

Replace Sutter with Iggy!!

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

IMHO, Bean is well-spoken and gets it.

 

What exactly does he "get".  He gets that it doesn't matter what the thought process is, that there is no possibility the Flames rebuild.  He gets that you need to take a hard look at player, then says he will be glad to see Vezna level goalie back next season.  Look at analytics, but "we have a great team".

 

Classy guy, shows up in a golf shirt with a sweater over it.  

Can't afford a suit?

[DirtyDeeds]

I have mixed feelings about BT's leaving.

 

Isn't the Captain supposed to go down with his ship?

He had some successes and some failures. He was competent yet will be difficult to replace.

 

Last year was a crossroads. We/He could have changed direction. 2 of your core leaving was a big opportunity to change direction. BT chose to take the same road when he made the Chucky trade.

 

Were his hands tied? Maybe.

 

We will find out this off season. We are back to the same crossroads this year only with management changes. If nothing changes again then we can assume A lot of the problem is Ownership.

 

On a side note... Maloney and Tree both came from Arizona. They didn't have much success there  either. I've see nothing so far to be able to say that things will improve..... next year or the year after.

[rickross]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

From what I got out of this it was not a Sutter over Trevling decision, it was BT is mentally and Physically done. Unless you have been in a GM role you have no Fing idea how taxing it is on the body and health.  There isn't one factor where he would have made this decision its a collection of emotions good and bad for 9 years of an emotional roller coaster it's just a combination of millions of things, trust me it takes its toll physically and mentally.   His time here has expired, from what I got out of this, the club and owners offered and he turned it down, I get it. There is nothing and I mean nothing that is more liberating and freeing than what Trevling did by walking away. I would bet when he did it was like the world was lifted off his shoulders. He will be back at some time but I don't think he bailed here to go elsewhere.  Appreciate his time and wish him the best moving forward. 

 

With the rest of we are not done. Sutter isn't clear yet. Maloney having been involved with the exit meetings its all going to depend on how the notes align. IMHO, Bean is well-spoken and gets it. Take the information and process it. analysis and then base your decision on what the vision was, and who was ultimately responsible for their part. I can see a process where Sutter is returning with lots of caveats moving forward, he will be on a short leash in that they will have a list of here is what needs to change and they will hold him to it. Nobody is and I mean nobody is immune to what happened this year.  Who knows Sutter may do what Trevling did and go yeah this isn't what I signed up for or I am not on board with, I am out. Buckle up we are only just getting started. 

If BT has essentially dialed out from being mentally, emotionally drained that’s a tell tale sign of the toxic environment he had to operate under. GM role is taxing , exhausting and stressful but it can also be very thrilling , rewarding and fun. If BT was finding it was no longer fun or he was losing his passion of being the GM of the Calgary Flames that’s indicative of the ppl he’s ultimately working for..the owners. Im

sure BT still loves hockey and the GM position , just not with the Calgary Flames. Same way Gaudreau and Tkachuk didn’t want to continue their careers as Calgary Flames. These are elite players and high quality management all opting to leave this organization within less than a year. There’s toxicity within this organization and it sure ain’t creosote!