Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The arguement would be valid maybe in the 1980's or 1970's.

 

It relies on the notion that the player should tell his team when he needs a hip replacement.  A player, with known degenerative bone issues.

 

Think about that for a second.  In 2022.

 

An MRI, one of several regular MRIs that should have been offered, should have told the player and the team that prevention was needed Long before the player realized it and long before a replacement was needed.

 

i get what you're saying, but Monahan definitely held off on his injury Way too long. I think it was on both the team and him.

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

i get what you're saying, but Monahan definitely held off on his injury Way too long. I think it was on both the team and him.

 

Yeah there very well could have been an issue where Monahan didn't want to forgo this year's salary.   What I'm saying though is if they used any modern science developed in the last 30 years, he and the team would have known about it mutually Last off-season, and likely had the option of a far less invasive surgery/treatment.

 

The fact that the Flames are like "we had daily talks" is, well, comical.

[rickross]

3 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well I'm as surprised as you then, surely daily conversations would be way more effective than regular MRIs.

 

The part about the hot-pack and not being aware, really, is pretty funny.  MRIs aside.

Such a shame. I remember when he got his 1st wrist surgery done, the Flames stated they weren’t aware and it all makes a ton of sense now. Monny is a bit of an idiot to be honest lol

[conundrumed]

All of this is irrelevant. He's a Canadiens. Why go on and on about this? Is it really that hard to understand that he played through Satoshi Nakamoto that he shouldn't have? That he didn't communicate it to team doctors and trainers has been well documented. Even JG saying he could barely walk but still played, nobody has ever accused athletes of being highly intelligent.

Retrospect is painful. There's been a lot to reinvigorate us this year. Key core pieces out with likely better core pieces in.

Why keep dredging up the rivers of negativity? What's the point?

We might actually be okay. Can we get behind it, or....

 

 

[conundrumed]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:54 PM, Heartbreaker said:

I don't normally say things like this, but I think maybe we should all go to Boston Pizza.

 

 

Love.

Okay. But I'm just going for the $10 pints of beers that I don't love. You don't need us to eat there do you? lol

[jjgallow]

17 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

All of this is irrelevant. He's a Canadiens. Why go on and on about this? Is it really that hard to understand that he played through Satoshi Nakamoto that he shouldn't have? That he didn't communicate it to team doctors and trainers has been well documented. Even JG saying he could barely walk but still played, nobody has ever accused athletes of being highly intelligent.

Retrospect is painful. There's been a lot to reinvigorate us this year. Key core pieces out with likely better core pieces in.

Why keep dredging up the rivers of negativity? What's the point?

We might actually be okay. Can we get behind it, or....

 

 

 

exactly, this is what I keep telling people

[sak22]

54 minutes ago, rickross said:

“Even as the Flames brain trust was having daily conversations about pulling him, he kept it to himself.

Teammates were in the dark, too.

“It was an eye-opening experience to see someone play that well with that many injuries, and not ever say that much about it,” Travis Hamonic said. “I mean, you’d see a hot-pack every once in a while, but never really understanding the extent of it. Quite frankly you’re not even aware … because he keeps his mouth shut and goes about his business.”

 

Heres another quote from a 2018 article from The Athletic. It’s pretty damning , Monny even admits to not taking proper care of himself. He honestly doesn’t come across as the smartest guy around, I’ll post the link to the full article. As great as Monny was he was a straight up liability. Apparently Monahan just didn’t understand how important wrists and hips are to a hockey player? Great player but he’s not the brightest athlete around. 
 

Here’s the link if it works for u

 

https://theathletic.com/515160/2018/09/13/after-four-separate-offseason-operations-sean-monahan-embraces-new-approach/

Well, find me the list of players who take themselves out when they are 99% or even 50%, how about the guys who jump back in when they are clearly concussed.  I mean if Monahan played as good with his hip injuries as Draisatyl did with his ankle in the playoff many people here wouldn't give a Blockchain about his long term health.  We should probably not celebrate getting Kadri, he rushed himself back from his surgery and was playing weeks before he should've.

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Okay. But I'm just going for the $10 pints of beers that I don't love. You don't need us to eat there do you? lol

 

Their oven baked wings are not bad.

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Their oven baked wings are not bad.

Maybe just a salad.lol Those can't come pre-prepared in a freezer truck can they?

[rickross]

39 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Well, find me the list of players who take themselves out when they are 99% or even 50%, how about the guys who jump back in when they are clearly concussed.  I mean if Monahan played as good with his hip injuries as Draisatyl did with his ankle in the playoff many people here wouldn't give a Blockchain about his long term health.  We should probably not celebrate getting Kadri, he rushed himself back from his surgery and was playing weeks before he should've.

Not the greatest example tbh…they have concussion spotters to prevent something like that from happening. Is a player who forces themselves to return prematurely or who is still concussed tough or just incredibly stupid? It’s a bit of both but more of the latter. To me Monny played through some tough injuries but the way he handled them was completely idiotic and it’s derailed his career. He sabotaged himself. Tough body , weak mind I guess. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Not the greatest example tbh…they have concussion spotters to prevent something like that from happening. Is a player who forces themselves to return prematurely or who is still concussed tough or just incredibly stupid? It’s a bit of both but more of the latter. To me Monny played through some tough injuries but the way he handled them was completely idiotic and it’s derailed his career. He sabotaged himself. Tough body , weak mind I guess. 

The quality of "concussion spotters"  is laughable IMO, I remember a game against Nashville early in the year where Forsberg got hit in the head, played another shift and then went to protocol and then returned only to miss the next game, shouldn't have been too hard to say he needed to go into protocol right after the hit but he didn't.  But he's a dumbass I guess.  Mario Lemieux needed someone else to tie his skates for most of his career, Blockchaining idiot.  Paul Kariya, Steven Stamkos, Steve Yzerman, Peter Forsberg, Shea Weber, Carey Price, Bobby Orr, Mike Richards, just all dumb people compared to you who would clearly act differently if you were an elite hockey player.

[rickross]

54 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The quality of "concussion spotters"  is laughable IMO, I remember a game against Nashville early in the year where Forsberg got hit in the head, played another shift and then went to protocol and then returned only to miss the next game, shouldn't have been too hard to say he needed to go into protocol right after the hit but he didn't.  But he's a dumbass I guess.  Mario Lemieux needed someone else to tie his skates for most of his career, Blockchaining idiot.  Paul Kariya, Steven Stamkos, Steve Yzerman, Peter Forsberg, Shea Weber, Carey Price, Bobby Orr, Mike Richards, just all dumb people compared to you who would clearly act differently if you were an elite hockey player.

What’s your point exactly ? Just list any player who’s had a concussion??…Like 95% of the ppl u list started playing before any serious concussion protocols were introduced in sport. Your examples are weak, clearly your missing the point entirely. With the advent of CTE in todays day and age, not to mention the elimination of any contact to the head in todays game, your point is moot. In hindsight, knowing what we know today do you think Bobby Orr would keep just shrugging it off as headaches. Let alone be allowed to re-enter the game? Damn Man U missed the point so bad you’d think you’ve been concussed yourself 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

What’s your point exactly ? Just list any player who’s had a concussion??…Like 95% of the ppl u list started playing before any serious concussion protocols were introduced in sport. Your examples are weak, clearly your missing the point entirely. With the advent of CTE in todays day and age, not to mention the elimination of any contact to the head in todays game, your point is moot. In hindsight, knowing what we know today do you think Bobby Orr would keep just shrugging it off as headaches. Let alone be allowed to re-enter the game? Damn Man U missed the point so bad you’d think you’ve been concussed yourself 

I don't even know what your point is, your rant has nothing to do with my last point.  Monahan is dumb for playing through injuries is what I can gather, I list players who've played through bad knees, hips, backs, etc. don't know why you thought I meant just concussions Mario Lemieux couldn't tie his skates because his back not concussions I'm sorry for assuming you knew that because anybody who knows hockey for the past 30 years should know that.  Don't know of Bobby Orr had to do with concussions, but I still believe he would've continued to play on his bad knees if he played today, again sorry for assuming you knew Bobby Orr retired because of knees and not concussions, he was before my time but I still knew that.  Just saying you must think they are idiots as well, because they played until their body couldn't handle it.

 

[jjgallow]

Gsus

[LouCifer]

 

Treliving strikes again! Weegar in it to win it! 

[rickross]

Huberdeau 13 pts

Weegar 6pts

 

Tkachuk 32 pts

 

We’ll it looks like Treliving may have got fleeced afterall! Tkachuk has been a major win for Florida, has more points than both Hubbie and Weegs combined. It’s still a young season but so far the returns haven’t yielded great results for the Flames. Not to mention Tkachuk is almost 6 years younger than Hubbie just to add to the sting. 
 

Ultimately the players need to show up so can’t peg this all on Treliving, but so far we look no better than mediocre as a team. Markstroms struggles are only making things worse, at what point do you consider moving Markstrom …while he still has high value?

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, rickross said:

Huberdeau 13 pts

Weegar 6pts

 

Tkachuk 32 pts

 

We’ll it looks like Treliving may have got fleeced afterall! Tkachuk has been a major win for Florida, has more points than both Hubbie and Weegs combined. It’s still a young season but so far the returns haven’t yielded great results for the Flames. Not to mention Tkachuk is almost 6 years younger than Hubbie just to add to the sting. 
 

Ultimately the players need to show up so can’t peg this all on Treliving, but so far we look no better than mediocre as a team. Markstroms struggles are only making things worse, at what point do you consider moving Markstrom …while he still has high value?

 

Well, the immediate trade was one thing.  Both players will get better as they get used tolinemates.

And we don't play river hockey here, so there's something.

The lesser part of the trade is a 1st and a top prospect.

Either of those could outplay Tkachuk.

 

But anyway, not the time to panic.

[sak22]

Tough to use this trade as a judgement, only a few teams the player wanted to go to and of those teams only a couple could make a move due to cap space, add in a ticking clock and your hands are really tied.  Time will tell how this works for both teams, but I don't think this trade should reflect on Tre as sometimes you have to make the most with what you have.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Tough to use this trade as a judgement, only a few teams the player wanted to go to and of those teams only a couple could make a move due to cap space, add in a ticking clock and your hands are really tied.  Time will tell how this works for both teams, but I don't think this trade should reflect on Tre as sometimes you have to make the most with what you have.

 

I think a trade with CAR might have worked out too, depending on the players involved.

I think it was more than Necas, but they would have a harder time trading for him.

At worst, he would be a one year rental that they could sell off if he wouldn't do longer than that.

Even then, would Necas be the same player here?

[rickross]

It’ll be years before we can fully judge the trade. Right now as it stands, we don’t appear to be a better team than last seasons iteration. I think Huberdeau and Weegar will eventually find they footing. Trelivings hands were tied this off-season and he still did remarkably well considering the challenges. I’d love to have known the full details of the other offers so we can compare “what if” scenarios. I’m thinking if Markstrom continues to struggle he could be one of the bigger chips to be considered for the trade block…don’t think it’ll happen this year but he’s has been labouring off late, u could argue he has cost us a number of games already this season. 

[robrob74]

17 minutes ago, rickross said:

It’ll be years before we can fully judge the trade. Right now as it stands, we don’t appear to be a better team than last seasons iteration. I think Huberdeau and Weegar will eventually find they footing. Trelivings hands were tied this off-season and he still did remarkably well considering the challenges. I’d love to have known the full details of the other offers so we can compare “what if” scenarios. I’m thinking if Markstrom continues to struggle he could be one of the bigger chips to be considered for the trade block…don’t think it’ll happen this year but he’s has been labouring off late, u could argue he has cost us a number of games already this season. 

 

i want to see Huberdeau with players who have wheels. Pick up the pace. The team is playing slow. Toffoli has looked better this year, but I want someone to play fast. Kadri looks like a guy who wants to play fast but for some reason his line seems to just be getting in the way with each other these days. 
 

I would do

 

 Huberdeau, Kadri, Phillips

Ruzicka, Lindholm, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Lucic, Dube, Ritchie

 

i want to see more speed and pace. 
 

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, rickross said:

It’ll be years before we can fully judge the trade. Right now as it stands, we don’t appear to be a better team than last seasons iteration. I think Huberdeau and Weegar will eventually find they footing. Trelivings hands were tied this off-season and he still did remarkably well considering the challenges. I’d love to have known the full details of the other offers so we can compare “what if” scenarios. I’m thinking if Markstrom continues to struggle he could be one of the bigger chips to be considered for the trade block…don’t think it’ll happen this year but he’s has been labouring off late, u could argue he has cost us a number of games already this season. 

 

There is no question that when you take away 2x40 goal guys you are not going to be better.  Or to put it another way, 2/3 of a top line.  That never happens in the NHL except to us.  We lost zone entry skill and net front skill.  We also are missing our 6th D who was one of the better zone entry and puck carriers.  And we lost the big dude that was very good on the PK.  

 

What we gained was an elite passer and a gritty C that is used to playing with power forwards.  And a puck moving D that has just started to get used to his role.  When we get Kyl back and players get more used to each other, I think we have a much better team for the playoffs.  The 4th line looks like crap now, but that's a Sutter decision.  BT isn't about to waive guys if the replacement isn't viewed as a solution by the coach.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i want to see Huberdeau with players who have wheels. Pick up the pace. The team is playing slow. Toffoli has looked better this year, but I want someone to play fast. Kadri looks like a guy who wants to play fast but for some reason his line seems to just be getting in the way with each other these days. 
 

I would do

 

 Huberdeau, Kadri, Phillips

Ruzicka, Lindholm, Toffoli

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Lucic, Dube, Ritchie

 

i want to see more speed and pace. 
 

 

Hey, if you are doing that, might as well bring up Pelletier for the 4th line and sit Looch.

Dube with Lucic is not like when Bennett was here; Looch is toast.

[cross16]

30 minutes ago, rickross said:

It’ll be years before we can fully judge the trade. Right now as it stands, we don’t appear to be a better team than last seasons iteration. I think Huberdeau and Weegar will eventually find they footing. Trelivings hands were tied this off-season and he still did remarkably well considering the challenges. I’d love to have known the full details of the other offers so we can compare “what if” scenarios. I’m thinking if Markstrom continues to struggle he could be one of the bigger chips to be considered for the trade block…don’t think it’ll happen this year but he’s has been labouring off late, u could argue he has cost us a number of games already this season. 

 

Neither do the Panthers. They've fallen back more than the Flames.

 

Food for thought.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

34 minutes ago, rickross said:

It’ll be years before we can fully judge the trade. Right now as it stands, we don’t appear to be a better team than last seasons iteration. I think Huberdeau and Weegar will eventually find they footing. Trelivings hands were tied this off-season and he still did remarkably well considering the challenges. I’d love to have known the full details of the other offers so we can compare “what if” scenarios. I’m thinking if Markstrom continues to struggle he could be one of the bigger chips to be considered for the trade block…don’t think it’ll happen this year but he’s has been labouring off late, u could argue he has cost us a number of games already this season. 

As it stands neither does Florida, but thats not Chuckys fault. Thats where the big picture of what was given up comes in. At the end of the day (or season) what will matter is where each team finishes and what impact did the loss or gain of the involved players have. And as the seasons pass the effects will be clearer.