Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[jjgallow]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:30 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Do you remember when we got a new guy in and he had to sit next to a stall on a folding chair?

As far as the arena, do you enjoy walking up to the PL seats?

The old arena in Arizona was 10x better.

 

The Dome is an icon, but few teams build icons anymore.

The ice has been bad for years it seems.

EDM got away with it because they had carte blanche and city money to spend.

 

I think a lot of what Cross was talking about though was not having modern training facilities.

 

None of the above is even remotely compelling and I also don't see the correlation with training facilities. 

 

Now if Bettman gave us that first overall pick that would be compelling but outside of that lol...

[robrob74]

https://dobberhockey.com/2022/08/04/capped-recent-signees-in-puljujarvi-bratt-and-mangiapane/

 

i have heard a lot of arguments that the contract being on the high side is an overpayment.

 

when looking at numbers, I can see why. But he has improved almost every year.  Is he worth the deal? Conundrum keeps talking about the Covid propped numbers. Is Mangiapane at risk of being a 40 pointer? Not a 55+ point player?

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

https://dobberhockey.com/2022/08/04/capped-recent-signees-in-puljujarvi-bratt-and-mangiapane/

 

i have heard a lot of arguments that the contract being on the high side is an overpayment.

 

when looking at numbers, I can see why. But he has improved almost every year.  Is he worth the deal? Conundrum keeps talking about the Covid propped numbers. Is Mangiapane at risk of being a 40 pointer? Not a 55+ point player?

 

Think it may have been Jtech, but anyways....

Previous season he was on a 26 goal pace.

He exceeded that this year, playing on a defensive line for a lot of it.

QWe are buying 2 UFA years.

 

I think there was some belief that we should have locked him up longer at near that price.

 

Puljujarvi isn't exactly in EDM's plans, but he will still be an RFA.

They bought exactly zero UFA years.

He probably would have gotten that amount in arbitration, but this way their is better control.

They can trade him or re-sign him in January (small sample size) or later. 

Or go through this again.

 

Bratt is also going to be a RFA and they bought zero UFA years.

Who knows what they really feel about him, but he's more pf a playmaker than goal scorer.

 

Personally, I don't think this is overpayment at all.

On the road, he isn't line matched against top lines.

At home he is.

If the assists were higher, we are talking about a 60-70 point season.

But his typical linemates weren't score 20+ goals.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Think it may have been Jtech, but anyways....

Previous season he was on a 26 goal pace.

He exceeded that this year, playing on a defensive line for a lot of it.

QWe are buying 2 UFA years.

 

I think there was some belief that we should have locked him up longer at near that price.

 

Puljujarvi isn't exactly in EDM's plans, but he will still be an RFA.

They bought exactly zero UFA years.

He probably would have gotten that amount in arbitration, but this way their is better control.

They can trade him or re-sign him in January (small sample size) or later. 

Or go through this again.

 

Bratt is also going to be a RFA and they bought zero UFA years.

Who knows what they really feel about him, but he's more pf a playmaker than goal scorer.

 

Personally, I don't think this is overpayment at all.

On the road, he isn't line matched against top lines.

At home he is.

If the assists were higher, we are talking about a 60-70 point season.

But his typical linemates weren't score 20+ goals.

 

i hope it is fine. He has been doing ok, but 2.5 of the seasons have been Covid boosts?

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

i hope it is fine. He has been doing ok, but 2.5 of the seasons have been Covid boosts?

 

I'm not sure what a covid boost is.

You mean a booster?  LOL

 

I would suggest that Mange was one of the most efficient scorers in the NHL.

The North division season was hardly a boost.

Some meaningless games against VAN, but they hadn't thrown in the towel.

We were trying to get in the playoffs afterall.

 

The covid season (bubble year) was cut off in the latter stages.

No meaningless games for teams, really.

You know, the ones where you play a last placed team that doesn't care.

He had 7g and 4a when we broke for the lockdown.

Just really ramping it up.

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i hope it is fine. He has been doing ok, but 2.5 of the seasons have been Covid boosts?

 

Monkeypox boost wen?

[robrob74]

55 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Monkeypox boost wen?

 

travel thinks it was JTech that said players points had a huge boost the past few years due to Covid. Probably because some teams would get affected by it and lose key players, but scoring was up. So I'm saying, was Mangiapane's scoring up for those reasons? 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

travel thinks it was JTech that said players points had a huge boost the past few years due to Covid. Probably because some teams would get affected by it and lose key players, but scoring was up. So I'm saying, was Mangiapane's scoring up for those reasons? 

 

Sorry, my bad.  I was talking that Jtech suggested he would revert to 25g and 25a.

I think he was more concerned that we pay him long term, nased on one 35+ goal season.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

travel thinks it was JTech that said players points had a huge boost the past few years due to Covid. Probably because some teams would get affected by it and lose key players, but scoring was up. So I'm saying, was Mangiapane's scoring up for those reasons? 

 

Further to the discussion, I had felt that Mange was probably going to be a 30 goal guy since he was trending up.  He was efficient in scoring 5v5.  He's played more of a defensive role than they typical goal scorer.  If he plays with Hubie, I almost expect his scoring to increase.  Better passes coming to him.  More chances of his passes turning into goals.  But, that's just me.

[cross16]

I don’t get the debate on Mang at all. Even if he was putting up 25G and 50ish points he’s worth every penny of that deal for how much he impacts the game. 
 

Mang is imo the last player we should worry about being worth his contract. It’s great value and has the chance to be a bargain. 

[phoenix66]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don’t get the debate on Mang at all. Even if he was putting up 25G and 50ish points he’s worth every penny of that deal for how much he impacts the game. 
 

Mang is imo the last player we should worry about being worth his contract. It’s great value and has the chance to be a bargain. 

Being totally honest he was the one I was most scared of being a casualty if Johnny and tkachuk had both signed ..  35 goals in your middle 6 with no pp time .. you just don't replace that 

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don’t get the debate on Mang at all. Even if he was putting up 25G and 50ish points he’s worth every penny of that deal for how much he impacts the game. 
 

Mang is imo the last player we should worry about being worth his contract. It’s great value and has the chance to be a bargain. 

I have zero problem with the deal. It's good for both sides. Not like we can't extend him, and it's in his benefit to wait for a better Cap environment. It helps us now to manage the cap. I think this is a great deal for both sides. Will he get a big raise later? More than likely, he's kinda doing us a solid in the current flat cap situation.

It takes 2 sides to negotiate. The only downside is the term, but this deal is what both sides agreed was best.

In the right now, it's a great deal for us. It kinda helps us get Huberdeau and Weegar inked and see where the cap is going in the next couple of years.

[travel_dude]

BT has gone from zero to hero in the space of a week.

Signing both RFA's to deals at or below what they get in arbitration for one year.

We own their rights and manage risk over the course of the next 3 years.

We get a better financial picture of what next year is looking like.

Eliminate the distraction of a pending UFA.

All of this accomplished while remaining under the cap for 13F, 7D and 2G.

That is huge.

 

He has some decisions about the team to make.

He's improved most of the team while losing two top players.

Some excess D that can be used to improve the F.

Decisions on whether it's time to move Monahan.

Whether we need Lucic this season.

Honestly, even though I get miffed with some of Lucic's play, I still am glad we have him.

Toughest SOB in the league and only Reaves comes close.

Would prefer if he decided to retire as opposed to trading him.

But, if he wanted to finish his career in BOS, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Monahan is another difficult decision.

If he came back to life this year, you almost need to re-sign him.

But, that may be too much wishful thinking.

[phoenix66]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

BT has gone from zero to hero in the space of a week.

Signing both RFA's to deals at or below what they get in arbitration for one year.

We own their rights and manage risk over the course of the next 3 years.

We get a better financial picture of what next year is looking like.

Eliminate the distraction of a pending UFA.

All of this accomplished while remaining under the cap for 13F, 7D and 2G.

That is huge.

 

He has some decisions about the team to make.

He's improved most of the team while losing two top players.

Some excess D that can be used to improve the F.

Decisions on whether it's time to move Monahan.

Whether we need Lucic this season.

Honestly, even though I get miffed with some of Lucic's play, I still am glad we have him.

Toughest SOB in the league and only Reaves comes close.

Would prefer if he decided to retire as opposed to trading him.

But, if he wanted to finish his career in BOS, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Monahan is another difficult decision.

If he came back to life this year, you almost need to re-sign him.

But, that may be too much wishful thinking.

Ya it's quite amazing when you look at it ..

Teams like Edmonton already talking about playing with a smaller roster .. 

And here we are.. no casualties.. no ransoms to pay to clear space..

We hold leverage in any deal now ..

 

I'm the same on Lucic , if he's not blocking a move we need to make let him finish .

Monahan too.. in my opinion he bleeds for this team.. we owe it to him to let him come back..  again , unless we need to make an improvement move , then it's a hockey move .

Tbh if he can't come back healthy and able to contribute I wonder if he's just totally done after this year .. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

Ya it's quite amazing when you look at it ..

Teams like Edmonton already talking about playing with a smaller roster .. 

And here we are.. no casualties.. no ransoms to pay to clear space..

We hold leverage in any deal now ..

 

I'm the same on Lucic , if he's not blocking a move we need to make let him finish .

Monahan too.. in my opinion he bleeds for this team.. we owe it to him to let him come back..  again , unless we need to make an improvement move , then it's a hockey move .

Tbh if he can't come back healthy and able to contribute I wonder if he's just totally done after this year .. 

 

I am a little worried that Monahan will not be at all effective.  He struggled under Sutter.

Blame it on conditioning or style or role, but he wasn't great.

We kinda owe it to him to give him a new chance.

If he can do it, then he gets a new deal.

If he can't, then we know he was broken beyond repair.

 

Again, we don't have to do anything.  We should to improve, but not just to get cap space.

If we had $2.5M on day 1 and built that up to close to $6M by TDL, then fine.

Don't need to move Monahan or Lucic to do that.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I am a little worried that Monahan will not be at all effective.  He struggled under Sutter.

Blame it on conditioning or style or role, but he wasn't great.

We kinda owe it to him to give him a new chance.

If he can do it, then he gets a new deal.

If he can't, then we know he was broken beyond repair.

 

Again, we don't have to do anything.  We should to improve, but not just to get cap space.

If we had $2.5M on day 1 and built that up to close to $6M by TDL, then fine.

Don't need to move Monahan or Lucic to do that.

 

If that's what he wants, then we do yes.   However, he may also be perfectly happy here and everyone is on the same page with his injuries.   I do agree that if he wants out he should be given that chance.  But if he wants to stay, he should also be given that chance.   We're not talking about much of a return at this point anyway.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

If that's what he wants, then we do yes.   However, he may also be perfectly happy here and everyone is on the same page with his injuries.   I do agree that if he wants out he should be given that chance.  But if he wants to stay, he should also be given that chance.   We're not talking about much of a return at this point anyway.

 

I don't know much about him personally.  He was friends with JG.  He got married.  He used to enjoy playing here.  He's not going to go out of his way to say he wants out.  He's not that guy.  Since he has a M-NTC, you have to talk to him anyway.  See if that interests him or if he wants to try to finish out a career here.  That includes re-signing next summer.  Or if wants to try some place closer to his family and get a chance to kickstart his career.  Sure there is a chance he could do that here.  Or maybe he feels like the team has gone in a direction that leaves him in the cold.

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't know much about him personally.  He was friends with JG.  He got married.  He used to enjoy playing here.  He's not going to go out of his way to say he wants out.  He's not that guy.  Since he has a M-NTC, you have to talk to him anyway.  See if that interests him or if he wants to try to finish out a career here.  That includes re-signing next summer.  Or if wants to try some place closer to his family and get a chance to kickstart his career.  Sure there is a chance he could do that here.  Or maybe he feels like the team has gone in a direction that leaves him in the cold.

 

There is an outside chance he recovers to his former self this season.   It's a very small chance.   But, then, getting a decent return for him is also small.  

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

There is an outside chance he recovers to his former self this season.   It's a very small chance.   But, then, getting a decent return for him is also small.  

 

ya, I don't know how long his other hip was injured for before they shut his season down this time. And up to the point he was possibly injured, it didn't seem like his skating was improving much. Maybe there was some improvement. I feel he needs a full season off to rebuild him. I get that it's against rules but I feel if he wants to recover his career he might need that. 
 

The first hip injury sounded terrible 

[phoenix66]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

There is an outside chance he recovers to his former self this season.   It's a very small chance.   But, then, getting a decent return for him is also small.  

That's why I figure it's a low risk high reward situation to just keep him.

He doesn't bounce back it's cuz he's too broken to , in which case sadly his career may be over and his money is off the books next year or he ends up on IR again..

He does bounce back healthy, maybe not 30 goals but productive . We have options ..  if he resigns it's not for $6m.. or he's a TDL return ..

Then if course there's the human factor .. I get its a business but he's bled so much for this team that if he does go out he deserves to go out on his shield .

We just convinced huberdeau to sign for 8 years cuz we're a classy organization, let's show him how we treat our vets 

[phoenix66]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, I don't know how long his other hip was injured for before they shut his season down this time. And up to the point he was possibly injured, it didn't seem like his skating was improving much. Maybe there was some improvement. I feel he needs a full season off to rebuild him. I get that it's against rules but I feel if he wants to recover his career he might need that. 
 

The first hip injury sounded terrible 

And don't forget the wrists ..those were definitely not 100% last season..he was missing easy spots he used to bury in his sleep 

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

That's why I figure it's a low risk high reward situation to just keep him.

He doesn't bounce back it's cuz he's too broken to , in which case sadly his career may be over and his money is off the books next year or he ends up on IR again..

He does bounce back healthy, maybe not 30 goals but productive . We have options ..  if he resigns it's not for $6m.. or he's a TDL return ..

Then if course there's the human factor .. I get its a business but he's bled so much for this team that if he does go out he deserves to go out on his shield .

We just convinced huberdeau to sign for 8 years cuz we're a classy organization, let's show him how we treat our vets 

 

Completely agree, and that's coming from "sell it all" guy

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

And don't forget the wrists ..those were definitely not 100% last season..he was missing easy spots he used to bury in his sleep 

 

Okay, so what you are saying is that his wrists from two years ago were a problem.  Yikes.  

I tend to think it may have been losing the leverage that the hips allow.

Just guessing.

His faceoffs were good and that was one of the areas that he said caused the most pain.

Something like, going numb after a draw, for about 30 seconds.

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Okay, so what you are saying is that his wrists from two years ago were a problem.  Yikes.  

I tend to think it may have been losing the leverage that the hips allow.

Just guessing.

His faceoffs were good and that was one of the areas that he said caused the most pain.

Something like, going numb after a draw, for about 30 seconds.

I think it was both last year.. he did the wrists in the offseason . Takes a while to get full mobility back.. then the hips are an added curveball .for the reason you mentioned , you have to lean in on some of those shots .. combine those 2 and you have a pretty ineffective Mony 

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I think it was both last year.. he did the wrists in the offseason . Takes a while to get full mobility back.. then the hips are an added curveball .for the reason you mentioned , you have to lean in on some of those shots .. combine those 2 and you have a pretty ineffective Mony 

 

You may be right.  Read this one but it doesn't make sense.  That seemed to be 20/21 that he was Satoshi Nakamoto down.  

After game 74 of the season, Monahan was shutdown to undergo four surgeries: two herniated discs, a groin operation, and a left wrist surgery, the same issue he struggled with the season before. At the time Monahan noted the wrist as the key one for him, “I felt like I was playing with one hand for a while.