Treliving-Flames mutually part ways. Maloney POHO/interim GM and search on for new GM

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The commonality of the final 8 teams is looking at their D rosters. Remove Ekholm, and T.O. and Edmonton had the worst D corps. By a lot.

There isn't much for superstars in the final 4. Lots of solid dmen though.

I don't want Dubas at all. The approach sucks. This is what building a team from forwards down looks like. A lot like Edmonton. At least Edmonton has the excuse that it's hard to entice players to play there.

 

I was trying to figure out how EDM ended up with the sad D-corp they played in the playoffs.  Did a bunch of them catch something from drinking water and get pushed out of the lineup?  Deharnais and Broburg?  That's after Kulak and Ceci are considered top 4?  Want a lousy goalie, just wait for TOR to not extend one.  Or trade a bad one for a worse one.  

 

Anyway, a new GM and new coach will do wonders if we don't go dumpster diving.  I like Brunette, but I think we wold need to remake the roster.  Maybe not a bad idea, it was hard to get by having the 4th line we suffered through this year.  It would be nice if a PTO was less born after we won the cup.  

[TheBurn]

I had Brad on my list of GM's during our last search and for better or worse he has now exited the Flames. 

 

With names floating around, there is only one so far that i would be excited to have as our GM. I dont know if he would consider it but Mark Hunter would be great. 

 

I think that his resume makes him more than qualified and can carry himself in a room with other gm's.  Paired with an experienced coach would allow us to compete for years to come. 

 

We invested a lot in the current team and our puck possession, shooting numbers have been a great precursor to future success. Some player acquisition to bring in some accurate shooting and injection of youth could do wonders alongside a GM like Hunter and an experienced coach (hoping gallant).

 

 

[tmac70]

Young, creative, and inventive for a coach isn't that what Maloney stated? That takes out Gallant and any other coach that have multiple years in the league. Plus Gallant and many others we have been linked to are too much Sutter-like for this group. 

 

As I have mentioned I would like to see Love be given a shot but think that you new fresh blood and lean towards a Brunette. My thoughts also have me casting the GM job outside the organization. Everyone BTCes and moans this organization is dysfunctional than clean house for the love of god. Why bring in the same individuals, the rot runs deep in this organization take it to the bone. This being said I like the individuals we have right now but if you're wanting to change directions then do the right thing and change the personal as well. 

 

As this club is in Cap hell from the last over lord, maybe Pridham, if you need someone for scouting or analytics Tulisky, the one that has my vote would be Hunter's an extreme long shot but again I think is to hard nose for this group as well but has great history 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Young, creative, and inventive for a coach isn't that what Maloney stated? That takes out Gallant and any other coach that have multiple years in the league. Plus Gallant and many others we have been linked to are too much Sutter-like for this group. 

 

As I have mentioned I would like to see Love be given a shot but think that you new fresh blood and lean towards a Brunette. My thoughts also have me casting the GM job outside the organization. Everyone BTCes and moans this organization is dysfunctional than clean house for the love of god. Why bring in the same individuals, the rot runs deep in this organization take it to the bone. This being said I like the individuals we have right now but if you're wanting to change directions then do the right thing and change the personal as well. 

 

As this club is in Cap hell from the last over lord, maybe Pridham, if you need someone for scouting or analytics Tulisky, the one that has my vote would be Hunter's an extreme long shot but again I think is to hard nose for this group as well but has great history 

 

I don't know he said young.  Definitely looking for offense.  Done with the 2-1 games and one goal leads/losses.  

 

Personally, I would prefer that we bring in a good GM who has good sense of the type of coach (and knows about them) and bring in Love as an A/coach.  I know that may not be something Love would accept, but it would be the best way to integrate farm players.

 

You can love or hate the last GM, but he was told to build a contender.  That means you pay top dollar for UFA's and make trades that don't dip into your current roster.  The Neal signing was probably the worst mistake signing that I can think of, but it was based on recommendations of who to target.  Trading him for Lucic was saving the owners a bunch of cash and we didn't pay him to stay home.  

 

The unfortunate thing is that it's going to be difficult for any new GM to be able to evaluate the players without having seen them play.  He would have to lean on the people that wanted specific players in the first place.  Or wait until part of the season is played.  Or review game tapes and talk to players about other players.  That would be based on how they played under Sutter or with players no longer here.

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, TheBurn said:

I had Brad on my list of GM's during our last search and for better or worse he has now exited the Flames. 

 

With names floating around, there is only one so far that i would be excited to have as our GM. I dont know if he would consider it but Mark Hunter would be great. 

 

I think that his resume makes him more than qualified and can carry himself in a room with other gm's.  Paired with an experienced coach would allow us to compete for years to come. 

 

We invested a lot in the current team and our puck possession, shooting numbers have been a great precursor to future success. Some player acquisition to bring in some accurate shooting and injection of youth could do wonders alongside a GM like Hunter and an experienced coach (hoping gallant).

 

Mark Hunter would certainly be bringing in someone from the outside who would have their own ideas.  Problem is, ownership believes we already have a winner right now and I doubt that opinion is shared among those from the outside.  Conroy would therefore make the best candidate as he was a part of BT's inner circle and would continue course.

 

I'm really hoping in these interviews, the Flames wake up to realize the opinion from the outside is that this team is mediocre and the only way to move forward to contend is to rebuild.  I hope all the candidates they target tell them this honest truth to their faces.

[cross16]

5 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Young, creative, and inventive for a coach isn't that what Maloney stated?

 

Nope that was the criteria for a GM. 

 

Only comment on the coach is the GM will make that hire. Maloney hasn't commented on what he wants because he says it's not his hire to make. 

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Mark Hunter would certainly be bringing in someone from the outside who would have their own ideas.  Problem is, ownership believes we already have a winner right now and I doubt that opinion is shared among those from the outside.  Conroy would therefore make the best candidate as he was a part of BT's inner circle and would continue course.

 

I'm really hoping in these interviews, the Flames wake up to realize the opinion from the outside is that this team is mediocre and the only way to move forward to contend is to rebuild.  I hope all the candidates they target tell them this honest truth to their faces.

 

I think you'd be surprised. 

 

Listen i'm not really interested in another big lengthy debate about a rebuild. it's a personal choice and I totally understand the rebuild side but as much as we can recognize that choice I think it's should be recognized rebuilds are not without risks too. They are not the slam sunk sure fire paths to contention that they get sold as. 

 

There are pros and cons to both and approaches and I think anyone who follows hockey/the Flames would recognize this. 

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think you'd be surprised. 

 

Listen i'm not really interested in another big lengthy debate about a rebuild. it's a personal choice and I totally understand the rebuild side but as much as we can recognize that choice I think it's should be recognized rebuilds are not without risks too. They are not the slam sunk sure fire paths to contention that they get sold as. 

 

There are pros and cons to both and approaches and I think anyone who follows hockey/the Flames would recognize this. 

 

Yes I would be very surprised if there are good GMs out there who think this group is close and that they can come in and finish the job without major roster turnover. 

 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that many GM candidates would think rebuilding is unnecessary.  Just on this message board alone, 90% think a rebuild is not required.

 

90% of teams that won Cups recently have undergone a lengthy rebuild but not 100%.  Also, not 100% of the teams who undergone a lengthy rebuild have won Cups.  Yes it's possible to never rebuild and win a Cup.

 

With this group we have though, it's not possible to win without a rebuild.  We're too old and missing too many core pieces.

[robrob74]

My biggest worry is our best center is leaving after next year. It's the same as the Gaudreau situation. Does money keep him in Calgary? Can they compete without him the year after? 
 

they best get players like Zary or Ruzicka up to speed because the succession plan isn't there yet.

 

 To far in advance so there could be some signed centers at UFA or traded for in the meantime. Rosters are ever transformative. 

[Thebrewcrew]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

My biggest worry is our best center is leaving after next year. It's the same as the Gaudreau situation. Does money keep him in Calgary? Can they compete without him the year after? 
 

they best get players like Zary or Ruzicka up to speed because the succession plan isn't there yet.

 

 To far in advance so there could be some signed centers at UFA or traded for in the meantime. Rosters are ever transformative. 

Technically, they can't sign Lindholm until July 1, but they have to know whether or not he wants to stay by the draft.

 

Don't mess around give him the best possible offer. It may cost 72m over 8yrs. If there's no interest then the Flames have to move him at the draft.

 

Absolutely can't afford another top end player leaving for nothing.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Technically, they can't sign Lindholm until July 1, but they have to know whether or not he wants to stay by the draft.

 

Don't mess around give him the best possible offer. It may cost 72m over 8yrs. If there's no interest then the Flames have to move him at the draft.

 

Absolutely can't afford another top end player leaving for nothing.

 

I believe technically, you're not allowed to negotiate until July 1.  The earliest the Flames can make Lindholm an offer is July 1st, after the draft of course.

 

Casual conversations between now and then might be okay though.

[Thebrewcrew]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I believe technically, you're not allowed to negotiate until July 1.  The earliest the Flames can make Lindholm an offer is July 1st, after the draft of course.

 

Casual conversations between now and then might be okay though.

You see it all the time. Mark Stone having an 8yr extension minutes after being acquired by Vegas. Jack Campbell having his deal in Edmonton like three minutes after UFA opens up.

 

Legally, yes there can be no extension until the new league year on July 1. But they need to have the conversation prior. If there’s no interest from Lindholm. Make a trade. If the new GM is an external candidate, it’s likely easier for them to make that deal than a Conroy or Pascal

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

You see it all the time. Mark Stone having an 8yr extension minutes after being acquired by Vegas. Jack Campbell having his deal in Edmonton like three minutes after UFA opens up.

 

Legally, yes there can be no extension until the new league year on July 1. But they need to have the conversation prior. If there’s no interest from Lindholm. Make a trade. If the new GM is an external candidate, it’s likely easier for them to make that deal than a Conroy or Pascal

 

If we bring in a new GM from outside, then I wouldn't even stop at Lindholm.  Huberdeau, Kadri, and Weegar should be shopped.  "No UFA would ever sign here again blah blah"  but they weren't signed by this new GM.  He never promised them anything and it's his team now.  Anyways.

 

I agree 100%... We need to have that conversation with Lindholm early.  The new GM cannot settle for "I want to see what changes the team makes this summer before I commit long term."  That would mean "no" so trade the player.

[phoenix66]

17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Mark Hunter would certainly be bringing in someone from the outside who would have their own ideas.  Problem is, ownership believes we already have a winner right now and I doubt that opinion is shared among those from the outside.  Conroy would therefore make the best candidate as he was a part of BT's inner circle and would continue course.

 

I'm really hoping in these interviews, the Flames wake up to realize the opinion from the outside is that this team is mediocre and the only way to move forward to contend is to rebuild.  I hope all the candidates they target tell them this honest truth to their faces.

 

 

Hunter would be in my top 3 for sure.. I also like Burke

Hunter is responsible for Marner being in Toronto..he battled at the table against the rest who were going to go with Hanifin.

 

I am so torn on Conroy.. I think he's ready, I think he's capable.. but if the goal is to change the culture, is he a change? You can argue yes but he's learned his craft and formed his style under those who created the existing culture .. how often when decisions were made was he leaning another way.. remember , he was tasked with interviewing Gulutzen..so he was obviously high on him .

Just think we have a unique opportunity to shake up the upstairs culture we haven't had since we hired Button (and to this day I still think he did a good job but he was also handcuffed by a cheap budget)

 

And like myself and many have mentioned.. there's no point even talking coach until we hear the new GM speak about direction..

 

Also, rebuild at this point is pointless and darn near impossible. We are not as bad as we showed this year..the new core is strong but weren't managed right and didn't assimilate as quick as we hoped. but even assuming they decided to.. who is taking the contracts of Marskstrom, Huberdeau, Kadri off us Fter the year they had ? We'd have to sweeten the deals with picks and eat salary which kind of defeats the purpose of stockpiling picks ..

Even let's go back in time and have BT Take the rebuild option on the tab!e in the Tkachuk saga.. it seems pretty c!ear that option was from Carolina ... Who right now have pick 28 at best.. how'd those Iggy and Jbo picks pan out?

 I do believe we need to inject youth..but I also believe In the core ..  we saw Hubie build some chemistry with Pelletier... Hubie or Lindholm feeding Coronato with that shot of his excites me ..

Do you recall who Huberdeau and barkov were forced to play with as kids that helped shape them into the players they are today?  Jagr

We need to augment the lineup with the right talent to support the core.. have a gm that knows the talent we need and the right coach that knows how to use it 

 

 

 

 

 

[JTech780]

Mark Hunter makes some sense, but Dave Nonis? 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

Hunter would be in my top 3 for sure.. I also like Burke

Hunter is responsible for Marner being in Toronto..he battled at the table against the rest who were going to go with Hanifin.

 

I am so torn on Conroy.. I think he's ready, I think he's capable.. but if the goal is to change the culture, is he a change? You can argue yes but he's learned his craft and formed his style under those who created the existing culture .. how often when decisions were made was he leaning another way.. remember , he was tasked with interviewing Gulutzen..so he was obviously high on him .

Just think we have a unique opportunity to shake up the upstairs culture we haven't had since we hired Button (and to this day I still think he did a good job but he was also handcuffed by a cheap budget)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is the goal to change the culture and what about it needs to be changed the GM can control?

 

11 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Mark Hunter makes some sense, but Dave Nonis? 

 

 

I think Maloney is casting a really wide net but I'm getting the sense it's less because he actually wants to hire these individuals and more because he is gathering as much feedback as he can about how the Flames are viewed in league circles. 

 

A common tactic , plus there is also the potential he's going to be needed some new Asst GMs too. I think that is why you ae seeing the mix of up and comers paired with some veteran/more experienced candidates. 

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Why is the goal to change the culture and what about it needs to be changed the GM can control?

 

 

 

I think Maloney is casting a really wide net but I'm getting the sense it's less because he actually wants to hire these individuals and more because he is gathering as much feedback as he can about how the Flames are viewed in league circles. 

 

A common tactic , plus there is also the potential he's going to be needed some new Asst GMs too. 

That's the wildcard in this...do they want to

I'm the first to go to bat for BT's record and the argument can be made for picking up where he left off..

But if I'm playing Devil's advocate,  he did have misses...

He could have extended chucky long term the first time but didn't so he could save Frolik, who was done soon after...

He did sacrifice a lot of picks for deals that ultimately didn't pan out..

If you believe the Sutter hire was above him he whiffed on every coaching hire he made..and in many cases wasn't on the same page as his coaches 

Though there are many contradictions the perception around the league is young players get held back

 

I do believe Brad built a good culture ..I'm just saying if u want to recreate a culture it starts at gm and this is the first time since we hired Button that a gm has a clean slate to work with.. no coach in place ..no obligation to any current coaches , scouts or personell 

Will Conroy give the new coach carte blanche to hire his staff?  Or will he make them keep people like Gelinas, etc...  Again not saying they should go..

If they want status quo with as little commotin as possible then yes , stay Internal.. just saying they have a unique window to generate  change they may not get again for awhile . An outside face has no loyalties , no biases ...  But again you can argue he's familiar with qualities a stranger might not see yet ( eg Craig button waived st Louis I think before he saw him play a game ) 

 

Im personally good with either .. just saying if you want to hit a reset button..you can't really do it on the ice .. so it has to be In Management and pretty much everybody under the gm should be vetted...  If want continuity, and there is an argument to be made for it , then stay Internal 

 

 

Maloney said 2 things I really liked... We need to score more..and kids need to play.. so we already know the gm will share that view

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

That's the wildcard in this...do they want to

I'm the first to go to bat for BT's record and the argument can be made for picking up where he left off..

But if I'm playing Devil's advocate,  he did have misses...

He could have extended chucky long term the first time but didn't so he could save Frolik, who was done soon after...

He did sacrifice a lot of picks for deals that ultimately didn't pan out..

If you believe the Sutter hire was above him he whiffed on every coaching hire he made..and in many cases wasn't on the same page as his coaches 

Though there are many contradictions the perception around the league is young players get held back

 

I do believe Brad built a good culture ..I'm just saying if u want to recreate a culture it starts at gm and this is the first time since we hired Button that a gm has a clean slate to work with.. no coach in place ..no obligation to any current coaches , scouts or personell 

Will Conroy give the new coach carte blanche to hire his staff?  Or will he make them keep people like Gelinas, etc...  Again not saying they should go..

If they want status quo with as little commotin as possible then yes , stay Internal.. just saying they have a unique window to generate  change they may not get again for awhile . An outside face has no loyalties , no biases ...  But again you can argue he's familiar with qualities a stranger might not see yet ( eg Craig button waived st Louis I think before he saw him play a game ) 

 

Im personally good with either .. just saying if you want to hit a reset button..you can't really do it on the ice .. so it has to be In Management and pretty much everybody under the gm should be vetted...  If want continuity, and there is an argument to be made for it , then stay Internal 

 

 

Maloney said 2 things I really liked... We need to score more..and kids need to play.. so we already know the gm will share that view

 

Got it. 

 

I would not hold my breath on those changes though because I think most of what you are suggesting "could" change is not the responsibility of, or created by, the GM. 

 

But I do get the desire for an outside voice, perfectly reasonable desire. It is possible that Conroy has a different vision than Treliving did (although that doesn't tend to be the case but it is possible)

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 

Hunter would be in my top 3 for sure.. I also like Burke

Hunter is responsible for Marner being in Toronto..he battled at the table against the rest who were going to go with Hanifin.

 

I am so torn on Conroy.. I think he's ready, I think he's capable.. but if the goal is to change the culture, is he a change? You can argue yes but he's learned his craft and formed his style under those who created the existing culture .. how often when decisions were made was he leaning another way.. remember , he was tasked with interviewing Gulutzen..so he was obviously high on him .

Just think we have a unique opportunity to shake up the upstairs culture we haven't had since we hired Button (and to this day I still think he did a good job but he was also handcuffed by a cheap budget)

 

And like myself and many have mentioned.. there's no point even talking coach until we hear the new GM speak about direction..

 

Also, rebuild at this point is pointless and darn near impossible. We are not as bad as we showed this year..the new core is strong but weren't managed right and didn't assimilate as quick as we hoped. but even assuming they decided to.. who is taking the contracts of Marskstrom, Huberdeau, Kadri off us Fter the year they had ? We'd have to sweeten the deals with picks and eat salary which kind of defeats the purpose of stockpiling picks ..

Even let's go back in time and have BT Take the rebuild option on the tab!e in the Tkachuk saga.. it seems pretty c!ear that option was from Carolina ... Who right now have pick 28 at best.. how'd those Iggy and Jbo picks pan out?

 I do believe we need to inject youth..but I also believe In the core ..  we saw Hubie build some chemistry with Pelletier... Hubie or Lindholm feeding Coronato with that shot of his excites me ..

Do you recall who Huberdeau and barkov were forced to play with as kids that helped shape them into the players they are today?  Jagr

We need to augment the lineup with the right talent to support the core.. have a gm that knows the talent we need and the right coach that knows how to use it 

 

Why does a rebuild have to mean trading Markstrom, Huberdeau, and Kadri?  We can tank it very well with those three.  We also need to hit the cap floor so they are perfect to keep.  Like you say, veteran mentors for the next wave.

 

A full rebuild will take 5 to 7 years.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why does a rebuild have to mean trading Markstrom, Huberdeau, and Kadri?  We can tank it very well with those three.  We also need to hit the cap floor so they are perfect to keep.  Like you say, veteran mentors for the next wave.

 

A full rebuild will take 5 to 7 years.

mid we can utilize their ages, I'd hope for a 3 year re-tool. I'm being optimistic. 
 

can Zary be a consistent middle six C? 
can Poirier be a pp specialist 4/5 guy? 
 

keep Andersson, although he'd net a fortune. 
 

trade Hanifin and Tanev at the TDL. 
 

Weegar, Andersson

Kylington, 

 

isn't a bad three moving forward with on D. 
 

tank one or two years and you have top4 picks playing full time in 3 & 4 years, plus the player we draft this year. If we can have Dube still, he helps fill a roster... 

 

maybe a trade down scenario could work if we still get "our guy" and add to the ammo this draft?

[cross16]

Seravalli suggesting Flames could have a new GM by next week.

 

Has Conroy as the favorite in his mind (sounds like it's his opinion and not what he is necessarily hearing)

 

 

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Seravalli suggesting Flames could have a new GM by next week.

 

Has Conroy as the favorite in his mind (sounds like it's his opinion and not what he is necessarily hearing)

 

 

 

Craig Conroy is the best fit for this team, for this roster, and for what ownership wants to do.  Making Conroy GM should cement the idea that ownership wants this group to keep going down their current path and no major changes are to be expected.  It's all aligns with everything they have been saying.

[cross16]

45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Craig Conroy is the best fit for this team, for this roster, and for what ownership wants to do.  Making Conroy GM should cement the idea that ownership wants this group to keep going down their current path and no major changes are to be expected.  It's all aligns with everything they have been saying.

 

yes and there was never really a belief that this team was going to rebuild (ie strip it down and spend time in the basement). 

 

but to be fair I think Conroy is qualified regardless of the direction this team wanted to take going forward. Could debate if he is the "most" qualified or the best option but I think he has earned consideration regardless of the direction. 

 

I also don't think it's fair to say he won't make major changes, just may not be in the mold of pulling this down to the studs but it's possible Conroy saw things different than Tree. 

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

yes and there was never really a belief that this team was going to rebuild (ie strip it down and spend time in the basement). 

 

but to be fair I think Conroy is qualified regardless of the direction this team wanted to take going forward. Could debate if he is the "most" qualified or the best option but I think he has earned consideration regardless of the direction. 

 

I also don't think it's fair to say he won't make major changes, just may not be in the mold of pulling this down to the studs but it's possible Conroy saw things different than Tree. 

 

No, I think hiring Conroy is a strong message to the team and the fans that we want to stay the course (run it back with virtually everyone extended long term).  No changes with this core for the next 3 to 5 years. 

 

Doesn't mean the players want to extend and stay long term but just saying, that's what hiring Conroy signals.  And Conroy is basically the most qualified and best candidate to do just that.

 

Conroy won't strip it down to the studs.  He will just wallpaper over everything as he's been told.  I would be very surprised if Conroy comes in and moves a major piece voluntarily.  It would only happen if players forces his hand and refuse to extend.

[The_People1]

I want to add, I do like Conroy.  He's a homegrown talent.  He's been a student under BT for many years.  He's a former NHLer who has played on many teams in every type of role.  He has a wealth of hockey experience.

 

It's just, hiring him at this time sends a bad signal to me personally about the direction of this team.  This roster isn't a few tweaks away from Cup contention, otherwise, I would be onboard with continuing course.