Blow It Up?

[cross16]

If rebuild means moving out pieces, really any pieces, for futures i'm open to that. As I've said before i think what makes the most sense to me is to move out established players and target players on other organizations that are poised for a breakout and see if you can capitalize that way.

 

But i think the days or stripping down a team for high draft picks are basically dead with the lottery changes, and on top of that I don't see that as an option for the Flames. Even if you dealt both Gaudreau and Monahan and got no active players back you are left with this:

 

Tkachuk - Lindholm

Mang - Backlund

Lucic - Bennett - Dube

 

Gio - Valimaki

Hanifin- Andersson

 

 

That's not going to be a lottery pick team. Not saying it would make the playoffs either, but honestly i can make a case for it, but that's not a bottom 5 roster. Your likely going to finish in the 8-13 range in the league so you are banking on some extremely small odds of getting a top 5 pick.  In order to do that you are trading Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Gio and then at that point you'd have a lottery pick team. 

 

That just isn't going to happen, nor should it. Stripping this down to the studs to rebuild it, where the odds say your likely to just going to rebuild a similar product, is a waste of time and money IMO. 

 

[The_People1]

After we trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Giordano, and Backlund, then we sign Hall to stay over the cap floor and also as a lucky charm for #1 pick overall.

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

If rebuild means moving out pieces, really any pieces, for futures i'm open to that. As I've said before i think what makes the most sense to me is to move out established players and target players on other organizations that are poised for a breakout and see if you can capitalize that way.

 

But i think the days or stripping down a team for high draft picks are basically dead with the lottery changes, and on top of that I don't see that as an option for the Flames. Even if you dealt both Gaudreau and Monahan and got no active players back you are left with this:

 

Tkachuk - Lindholm

Mang - Backlund

Lucic - Bennett - Dube

 

Gio - Valimaki

Hanifin- Andersson

 

 

That's not going to be a lottery pick team. Not saying it would make the playoffs either, but honestly i can make a case for it, but that's not a bottom 5 roster. Your likely going to finish in the 8-13 range in the league so you are banking on some extremely small odds of getting a top 5 pick.  In order to do that you are trading Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Gio and then at that point you'd have a lottery pick team. 

 

That just isn't going to happen, nor should it. Stripping this down to the studs to rebuild it, where the odds say your likely to just going to rebuild a similar product, is a waste of time and money IMO. 

 

 

So, statistically speaking your chances for high picks when playing poorly are exactly the same now as they were before the lotto.  I don't think anything has changed with the value of rebuilds, especially averaged out after several years.   Quite frankly the math says you'll do the same or better than pre-lotto.   The only thing that has changed is tanking so hard you consistently finish dead-last, AKA Edmonton Oilers, and I don't think any of us actually want to see that.   We'd rather have a good lotto chance at first overall for the next 3-4 years, and the promise of high picks each of those years.   Which is just as possible as ever.

 

The lineup you describe above, combined with our goaltending situation, is a bottom 5 roster straight up.

 

One of them will get injured.

 

Bennett, Dube (unless he finds another gear which is maybe 20% chance), Lucic, Backlund, Hanifin (huge liability), Gio (he's done) should not be part of a core team conversation.   Gio and Backlund and Lucic are role players now at best, we just haven't admitted it.     Bennett is drifting and has not been any thing more than a role player, that doesn't seem to be changing.      Dube could be more but he has to find a whole new level of play which, at his size is quite frankly unlikely.

 

Tally up the numbers, compare it with the other teams top 2 lines.    Consider our goaltending, consider their age.

 

You're left with Tkachuk and Lindholm.   Of the defence you listed I don't see anyone notable capable of holding first line.  And if you have no defencemen worthy of first line you are simply done.

 

I would be fine with parting with Lindholm, or others in this list for instance.   The math works.  Your rebuild chances are statistically the same as pre-lottery and that's just facts.

 

So imho yes it should happen.  But, if it doesn't, you're just one injury away from it anyway.

[Addicted]

So now that the team that we should have and could have beaten with a couple favourable bounces or a little tighter play to close out games, walks through to the cup final after beating us....do we still want to blow our team up, or are we closer than we think?  I’m going with the latter. 

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, Addicted said:

So now that the team that we should have and could have beaten with a couple favourable bounces or a little tighter play to close out games, walks through to the cup final after beating us....do we still want to blow our team up, or are we closer than we think?  I’m going with the latter. 

 

I am still in the position of the team needs more. It was painfully obvious that whenever the Stars wanted to play they could outplay the Flames. 
 

I am not any different than prior to the stars making the Finals, and it’s what scares me most that people, namely the Flames organization, thinking the Flames are close. 
 

the lightening will sweep and all the time there are teams that can make it to the Finals but lose.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Addicted said:

So now that the team that we should have and could have beaten with a couple favourable bounces or a little tighter play to close out games, walks through to the cup final after beating us....do we still want to blow our team up, or are we closer than we think?  I’m going with the latter. 

 

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I am still in the position of the team needs more. It was painfully obvious that whenever the Stars wanted to play they could outplay the Flames. 
 

I am not any different than prior to the stars making the Finals, and it’s what scares me most that people, namely the Flames organization, thinking the Flames are close. 
 

the lightening will sweep and all the time there are teams that can make it to the Finals but lose.

 

This was also a weird and awkward tournament.  A one off.  Can't put too much into the Cup winner here.  There will never be another season like this again. *Knock on wood*

[MP5029]

In my humble opinion and observation of this team, one thing I have noted for consideration is we really don’t have that elite superstar w do have the elite type supporting cast but not a game changer.

 

so I’d say the Flames and more important BT has some serious considerations to make before the draft.

 

1. Do we build a balanced team with no super star elite like The Dal’s and LVK’s of the NLH 

 

2. do we go out and hunt for that elite super star?

 

well, the obvious answer to this is option 1, why I say this is it’s take CGY how many years to get to the point of a reliable playoff team (which is also debatable but seems they are after 2 straight post seasons now which should continue as is) but that’s only treading water and your gonna loose your core window vast by truffle moves which we seen last year.  The other issues is, in order to get that super star your gonna have to give up a few key elite supporting casts which at that point your nearing a rebuild...so the obvious answer is build and acquire what they really need.

 

with this in mind, the obvious holes are on the RW and power forward position especially at the top line level.

 

the easy fix here would be to sign Hall for the LW side and thus making Gaudreau an expendable piece for a elite (not super star, but elite) power RW, again, no accounting for if Hall would sign and also the cost to sign him could seriously impact other areas like goal and Defense..which the D is also pretty close but needs a few overhaul moves (Gio needs to go now, and if they can resign Brodie then they really only need to make one major move on the score plus a few minor moves or resigns for competent spares...not Stone for example)

 

if and huge if they can square those issues away before the start of the season I think it would be a huge improvement, as the rest should be a more easy plug of holes at the deadline...oh and also they need to re-up on Ritich in goal and find him help as good or a bit better than Tabloit which should do the trick short term if the score is properly addressed.

also, the bottom 6 could use a bit of tinkering, especially the bottom 9, but over all the bottom 6 didn’t really cost us many games so standing pat with them wouldn’t hurt any.

 

i guess it boils down to what opportunities that can fit that BT has and if he’s willing to do what it takes to make some of those opportunities a reality.  We shall see what unfolds and I’m thinking by the time the draft is done we may have a better idea. 

[cross16]

11 hours ago, Addicted said:

So now that the team that we should have and could have beaten with a couple favourable bounces or a little tighter play to close out games, walks through to the cup final after beating us....do we still want to blow our team up, or are we closer than we think?  I’m going with the latter. 

 

The counter point to this, is that the only reason the Flames were close to being up 3-1 is the Stars didn't really show up in game 1 and then Talbot stole them a game. The "couple favorable bounces" ideas goes both ways for me, it almost put them up 3-1 and then it took that away so for me it evened out. I personally don't think what Dallas does should impact the analysis of this club. It was a close series for sure and that's the NHL right now with so much parity, but at the end of the day the Stars were the better team for the majority of the series. 

 

I'm not a blow it up guy but i'm also not a this is a one player fix or a 1 or 2 player and they are there (unless they get lucky and a number 1 center hits the block).

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

This was also a weird and awkward tournament.  A one off.  Can't put too much into the Cup winner here.  There will never be another season like this again. *Knock on wood*

 

I would compare the playoffs to university.

The first round is like first year.

Toughest assignments, get you thinking the way you need to, weed out the weaker minded.

Successive rounds build on what you learned.

Less learning the rules and more playing under them to the level of your opponents.

Final round you are competing for #1.

 

The Flames have trouble winning first rounds because they have trouble adapting from regular season "fair" play to playoffs dog-eat-dog.

This playoffs there was a fine line between going a lot further and losing in round 1.

There is so much parity that it's not simply building a better team.

It's about how you play in the playoffs.

We learned that the top line is going to mostly be shut down.

That's typical.

Where we need to focus is the depth that has to take over.

Dallas used their depth to win.

STL used depth last year.

It wasn't Benn or Seguin that defeated us.

It was depth guys and D.

 

You can't expect Rinaldo to be that guy.

Or Forbort and Gus to make a difference.

Or Ryan to carry a line that was mostly Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.

 

I would focus my rebuild on the bottom 6 and 3rd pairing.

Yes, Gio and Backlund need to be better.

Yes, the top line needs to find a way to score EVEN.

But the coaching can impact that if they put them in the right situations.

We didn't use anything that was really working in the regular season.

Fix tgat part before you add too much talent.

So, a bottom 6 that is better suited is necessary.

 

Let me sum it up.

1) Replace Brodie with a RHS top 2 D.

    Not that he was the problem, but any struggles he has are amplified on Gio, and vice versa.

    LHS-RHS should be the norm.

2) Fix the goalie situation.

    Whether RIttich is till able to accept a backup role or not, play the two guys to ensure they are fresh come playoffs.

    Or replace one or both.

3) Have a functional 3rd and 4th line.

    If Bennett is going to be C, surround him with enough skill.

    Get a RHS on RW and use Dube where he is most effective.

4) Set up Lucic with the right type of C and a RW.

    Ryan is a good Swiss Army Knife, but he can't play a heavy game.

    Determine if a heavy game is what you need Lucic for.

    If not, then use players like Gawdin and Phillips (or whatever).

    Rieder was good for some things, but was one of the causes of a lot of goals against. 

5) Replace the 3rd pairing.

    Neither Hamonic nor Forbort bring more than toughness.

    Gus was a PP specialist, but is not defensively sound.

    Is Mackey ready for the big show?

    How about Yelesin?  He sure look composed in his 4 game stint.

[robrob74]

I would almost continue having Lindholm with Tkachuk.

 

Go:

 

Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube

Gaudreau, Bennett, Hall

Monahan, Backlund, Mangiapane 

Lucic, Gawdin, Reider

[MP5029]

Well I’m of the thought that if you bring in Hall you can remove Gaudreau...to which I would be very ok with. It’s an upgrade, thus your LW looks like:

 

Hall

Chucky

Manji

luch 

 

 

further on that note, Mony is not a first line Ctr nor is backlund or Bennet for that matter but with the way this team is built, I’d be very ok with trading backlund and making the Ctr lines look like:

 

Monahan 

Lindholm 

bennett

ryan 

 

Looking at things in this light, you can very clearly see...this team has absolutely NO RW talent, heck just no RW!

 

this here is where I’d be focused on if I were BT although, with that in mind the FA pool is very light on RW so your gonna need to use Backlund and Gaudreau as chips to get at the very least a 2 legit top 6 RW’s the others can probably be patched worked in but I’d rather they find some solid bottom 6 RW too...but that’s a tall order to fill in one off season, especially with the D and G needing some touch up work as well..

 

speaking of the D, I’m thinking if I were BT I’d try and lock up Brodie he’s. A solid d and still young enough to fit in with our main core...hammer is walking so he’s gone and Gio I think would fetch you a younger all round d man like a Hanifin, potential but is struggling to hit his stride...since we are stuck with Hanifin unless we trade him (it would be a t a loss value though) I say keep him sign Brodie and pick up a solid d man and some filler upgrade to Stone and guff’s for the 7th and 8th slots 

 

brodie + ?????

hanifin + Anderson 

Valimaki + killington (or a spare?)

 

???? spare + ????? Spare could be from the minors or wherever 

 

all and all signing Brodie keep the majority of the D intact and less overhauling to do...same thoughts with the way I looked at the forward lines...

 

as fo G it’s a poopoo show, maybe hope to find an upgrade on Tablot and keep Ritich? Let them both go and hope you find 2 decent G in FA and trades? Hard to say, I’d rather they try and upgrade Tabs and keep Ritich seems like less overhauling again...

 

at the end of the day we need at the very least a power RW who is a top 6 guy and at least one more top 6 RW that’s the major hole we need to fill, we have too many C’s being used on the wings particularly on the RW and it needs to be fixed 

 

 

 

 

[Horsman1]

silly People.. Treliving already made his thoughts on this team known to everyone by hiring Ward as the permanent coach.. Ward was hired because the current core played well and respected him.. We're not about to see an influx of new players .. it's not ward's systemes .. It's a continuation of what's in place.. We may see some minor tinkering as Free agents and UFA;s on the team sign and reject offers but that's all we'll see.. 

[jjgallow]

43 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

silly People.. Treliving already made his thoughts on this team known to everyone by hiring Ward as the permanent coach.. Ward was hired because the current core played well and respected him.. We're not about to see an influx of new players .. it's not ward's systemes .. It's a continuation of what's in place.. We may see some minor tinkering as Free agents and UFA;s on the team sign and reject offers but that's all we'll see.. 

 

Well this thread was created long before Ward's fate was announced.   But, you're not wrong, the writing is currently on the wall.    I will say, Ward is a great coach despite all the people in the Ward thread blaming him for our shortcomings on the ice because they haven't yet come to terms with how much this team is lacking and refuse to look at our consistent playoff failures over the last 6 years under a few hundred different coaches hired by BT (the least pronounced of which was under Ward).

 

IMHO though, it's not enough.   Blow it up we will.   All this means is it's not starting this off-season.    It could start as early as next season's trade deadline.   As much as I like Ward, he can't fix this.

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well this thread was created long before Ward's fate was announced.   But, you're not wrong, the writing is currently on the wall.    I will say, Ward is a great coach despite all the people in the Ward thread blaming him for our shortcomings on the ice because they haven't yet come to terms with how much this team is lacking and refuse to look at our consistent playoff failures over the last 6 years under a few hundred different coaches hired by BT (the least pronounced of which was under Ward).

 

IMHO though, it's not enough.   Blow it up we will.   All this means is it's not starting this off-season.    It could start as early as next season's trade deadline.   As much as I like Ward, he can't fix this.

 

it’ll be when Gaudrea or Tkachuk’s contracts run out, by then they will have spent a few more 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on trying to add, and mortgage the future, thus ruining the next rebuild, like they sort of done in Arizona and what we thought was a bad mistake in ottawa. We could be so lucky to get Ottawa luck and get 2 picks in the top 5.

 

although currently we are a 6-8 playoff spot team. It’s possible a goalie or star get injured and we fail and drop into a lotto. It’s like what Tampa did once or twice. And Winnipeg I guess? We’ve been fairly lucky with injuries for a long time. 

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

it’ll be when Gaudrea or Tkachuk’s contracts run out, by then they will have spent a few more 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on trying to add, and mortgage the future, thus ruining the next rebuild, like they sort of done in Arizona and what we thought was a bad mistake in ottawa. We could be so lucky to get Ottawa luck and get 2 picks in the top 5.

 

although currently we are a 6-8 playoff spot team. It’s possible a goalie or star get injured and we fail and drop into a lotto. It’s like what Tampa did once or twice. And Winnipeg I guess? We’ve been fairly lucky with injuries for a long time. 

 

It's hard to argue with that right now.   I still have some hope. All we know for sure at this point as that they've kept Ward, and imho that was the right decision rebuild or not.  Until I see an off-season trade where we shed picks, I'll maintain hope.   They're gonna do something.   Fingers crossed it's a free agent signing and we go into this season with our picks intact.  

 

Things can change fast.   It Does look like they organization wants to stick with this core For Now, but what we don't know is for how long, or how sure they are about that.    If our performance is what I think it will be by the trade deadline, the Flames may be forced to re-assess.   With the pieces we have, we know it's close.  Gotta be.  Unless they artificially prop it up.

[Sarasti]

Markstrom tops my list as well.

He is a game changer.

 

Edit: Meant to post in trade suggestions thread.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

it’ll be when Gaudrea or Tkachuk’s contracts run out, by then they will have spent a few more 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on trying to add, and mortgage the future, thus ruining the next rebuild, like they sort of done in Arizona and what we thought was a bad mistake in ottawa. We could be so lucky to get Ottawa luck and get 2 picks in the top 5.

 

although currently we are a 6-8 playoff spot team. It’s possible a goalie or star get injured and we fail and drop into a lotto. It’s like what Tampa did once or twice. And Winnipeg I guess? We’ve been fairly lucky with injuries for a long time. 

 

Previous deals with picks were made because of poor player evaluation.

Hammy was a home run in some respects but didn't take into axxount the one way play.

Hamonic was a poor evaluation of a formerly splid player.

Goalie trades were the worst.

 

But, we are to a point where those low round picks are not being used.

Last year was the end of it.

I don't get the sense that 1sts and 2nds will be used in trades.

Not until the team is close to contender status, and probably only at TDL.

I could be wrong but I think BT feels burned.

Gus and Forbort.

Smith and Elliott.

Hamonic.

 

There is opportunity to add from FA without using picks in trades.

And we have some players that might be used in trades.

 

[jjgallow]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Previous deals with picks were made because of poor player evaluation.

Hammy was a home run in some respects but didn't take into axxount the one way play.

Hamonic was a poor evaluation of a formerly splid player.

Goalie trades were the worst.

 

But, we are to a point where those low round picks are not being used.

Last year was the end of it.

I don't get the sense that 1sts and 2nds will be used in trades.

Not until the team is close to contender status, and probably only at TDL.

I could be wrong but I think BT feels burned.

Gus and Forbort.

Smith and Elliott.

Hamonic.

 

There is opportunity to add from FA without using picks in trades.

And we have some players that might be used in trades.

 

 

BT feels burned?   I Feel Burned lol.

 

I think you're right, he will look to FA first.  That of course is assuming ownership is still willing to spend to the cap during Covid.

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

BT feels burned?   I Feel Burned lol.

 

I think you're right, he will look to FA first.  That of course is assuming ownership is still willing to spend to the cap during Covid.

 

I get that.  Just saying that what he expected and what he got were different.

He didn't extend Smith after losing in the 1st round, yet by some accounts he was the best player on the ice (not me).

In FA, he blundered on Neal and Brouwer.

He doesn't make those deals without someone telling him to do it.

That person seems to be making poor choices.

By the same token trades like Lazar had the same mistaken beliefs.

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He doesn't make those deals without someone telling him to do it.

That person seems to be making poor choices.

 

That's pretty much my worst fear and I'm hoping it didn't extend beyond Burke.   I push pretty hard to make my thoughts known on BT but I don't actually have any way of knowing if it's really him.   If it's Burke, we're good.   If it's higher, then, we're not good.  And won't be for a long time

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

That's pretty much my worst fear and I'm hoping it didn't extend beyond Burke.   I push pretty hard to make my thoughts known on BT but I don't actually have any way of knowing if it's really him.   If it's Burke, we're good.   If it's higher, then, we're not good.  And won't be for a long time

 

I suspect it's Pleau and Sigalet.

I've got no issues with other scouting

 

[CheersMan]

Some say blow it up!

Who thought VAN should have blown it up when Jimbo took over the mess Gillis left him? I did. I thought for sure they would spend the next 5+ yrs in the basement collecting picks.

I thought Jimbo was 8 eggs short of a dozen when he took over VAN but he has shown how to build a completive team in short order with the tools at his dispense. 

Some will say what has VAN won? Well the answer is nothing and I hope it stays nothing but they may have had a better team than ours this post season.

What if Jimbo never fell for the Bart trade, he may have Anderson in his wheel house instead.

What if Jimbo took Tkachuk instead of positional need in Juolevi? I haven't seen Juolevi play, maybe he turns out to be a player, who knows.

Blowing it up and living in the basement has no guarantees of producing a great team.

Look at ARI, they have been collecting draft picks for the last 10 years, where are they today?

How about TB, they have been building since 06 when they picked Stamkos 1st OA. Good chance nobody remembers them this season either.

Just sayin' 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Some say blow it up!

Who thought VAN should have blown it up when Jimbo took over the mess Gillis left him? I did. I thought for sure they would spend the next 5+ yrs in the basement collecting picks.

I thought Jimbo was 8 eggs short of a dozen when he took over VAN but he has shown how to build a completive team in short order with the tools at his dispense. 

Some will say what has VAN won? Well the answer is nothing and I hope it stays nothing but they may have had a better team than ours this post season.

What if Jimbo never fell for the Bart trade, he may have Anderson in his wheel house instead.

What if Jimbo took Tkachuk instead of positional need in Juolevi? I haven't seen Juolevi play, maybe he turns out to be a player, who knows.

Blowing it up and living in the basement has no guarantees of producing a great team.

Look at ARI, they have been collecting draft picks for the last 10 years, where are they today?

How about TB, they have been building since 06 when they picked Stamkos 1st OA. Good chance nobody remembers them this season either.

Just sayin' 

 

 

for me, it goes to show that when you have a vision or draft pedigree/ smarts then stick to it. Bending was touted as a draft guy and then like a lot of GM’s he tried to rush it by trading. They gave up a 2nd for a talented underachieving player, and then found out he was soft. Then like you said took Joulevi, but then hit on other draft picks. You’re right, they leapfrogged the Flames this year. It’s sad because the Flames looked like on a good trajectory. They hit on Pettersson, and got a stud D. 
 

the thing is, they did go rebuild and were one of the teams that lost the lottery on every chance they got, and dropped in most drafts. I think it has been 2-3 drafts where they fell big time! But they got the two things needed, a stud #1C&D. Hughes is a gifted offensive D. 
 

I also think they did what the Flames did. They kept the Twins until they retired but wanted their mentorship for the young, like we did in keeping Gio and Glencross. Although we traded Glennie. Edler wouldn’t wave his full no trade. 
 

I think the Flames started to get away from what us actually working, drafting by trading 1sts and 2nds. Not hitting on Benny has hurt as well. 
 

it isn’t that the canucks didn’t rebuild, they were and sped it up with good drafting and picking up character along the way. We aren’t far behind. 
 

horvat is as good as Backlund or better. Pettersson better than Monahan, is more akin to Gaudreau I guess. Boesser is their monahan. Miller their Tkachuk. We should be better, but the character is not their. 
 

is that the players, or is a coach supposed to get it out of them? 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Some say blow it up!

Who thought VAN should have blown it up when Jimbo took over the mess Gillis left him? I did. I thought for sure they would spend the next 5+ yrs in the basement collecting picks.

I thought Jimbo was 8 eggs short of a dozen when he took over VAN but he has shown how to build a completive team in short order with the tools at his dispense. 

Some will say what has VAN won? Well the answer is nothing and I hope it stays nothing but they may have had a better team than ours this post season.

What if Jimbo never fell for the Bart trade, he may have Anderson in his wheel house instead.

What if Jimbo took Tkachuk instead of positional need in Juolevi? I haven't seen Juolevi play, maybe he turns out to be a player, who knows.

Blowing it up and living in the basement has no guarantees of producing a great team.

Look at ARI, they have been collecting draft picks for the last 10 years, where are they today?

How about TB, they have been building since 06 when they picked Stamkos 1st OA. Good chance nobody remembers them this season either.

Just sayin' 

 

 

Huh?  The Canucks missed the playoffs for 4 years in a row (and was on their way to the 5th before this playoff format saved their season).  They didn't spend 5 years in the basement collecting picks?  Okay technically not I guess... But it's not a rebuild in short order either. 

 

Pettersson is the real deal and that's kind of the thing with rebuilds.  You get that #1 Center and it turns a 8-year rebuild into a 4-year rebuild.  We can try to do that too.

[cross16]

The Canucks bottomed out because they tried to keep winning with the Sedins by giving out horrible contracts, several bad trades and sewering their cap and team in the process. Deserve some credit for picking Petterson but also very lucky that other teams passed on him in a strong draft. I’m not trying to put Benning down as he is a good drafter but I don’t think the Canucks are a model for success at all, nor a model rebuild. 
 

they did exactly what the Flames did in their “rebuild” and the difference is the Canucks got Petterson and the Flames got Bennett.