Blow It Up?

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Does he have to?

If he decides to hire a new coach, he hasn't fired Ward.

The coach and Ward would sit down and make that decision about stepping down as Assistant coach.

 

lol wat

 

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

lol wat

 

 

What part of that don't you get?

He wasn't hired as head coach.

Ward has said that if they hire a new coach, he would sit down with them (unless fired as Assistant Coach).

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Looks like the old, slow, has-beens DAL team that cant score goals has dropped a grenade on the young, fast, talented, goal machine COL team too. COL should be blowing it up in a few days. Heck, 30 teams will be blowing it up once the SC is awarded. This thread title should be Blown-up!

I get the idea that a blow up may bit a bit dramatic but how much success has the team had since 2004? Thats the difference between teams like the Avs and the Flames. How much perpetual mediocracy/underachievement is acceptable? I hate the term blow up but I was sincerely hoping that there would be lessons learned from last year, and yes once again some minor changes were made which perfectly reflects the minor changes in results. Maybe major changes to the core doesn't get you the results you expect but at least it's a different approach than the de facto half azzed approach.

[CheersMan]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I get the idea that a blow up may bit a bit dramatic but how much success has the team had since 2004? Thats the difference between teams like the Avs and the Flames. How much perpetual mediocracy/underachievement is acceptable? I hate the term blow up but I was sincerely hoping that there would be lessons learned from last year, and yes once again some minor changes were made which perfectly reflects the minor changes in results. Maybe major changes to the core doesn't get you the results you expect but at least it's a different approach than the de facto half azzed approach.

I just checked, 9 teams have won since 04, over a period of 16 yrs. Many of those teams lost for a good many years while picking up guaranteed top draft picks like WAS, CHI, PIT, LA, ANA. Whereas others did it the hard way like DET, BOS, CAR, STL. These few tried to win every year and finally punched through.

 

Underachievement is not what I would call the Flames. Who’s underachieving?

 

Gaudreau, drafted 104 OA? I would argue that he has over-achieved in his time here. 8 pts in the postseason and +/-0. He held his own.

 

Monahan, drafted 6 OA? Not many have scored more goals in this league since he arrived. 7 pts in the post season and a +/- 0, he held his own.

 

Bennet, drafted 4 OA? This guy is a warrior come playoff time. Somewhat of a liability during the regular season.

 

Gio, drafted……opps, found in the dollar store? Gio has been an overachiever his whole career, but certainly showing signs of a depreciating 37yr old now.

 

Hamonic, elected to take summer vacation instead?

 

Tkachuk, who was concussed and missed the last 3 games?

 

Lucic, who turned out to be a true leader for this team?

 

Talbot? I think Talbot was tremendous, minus the last game.

 

We were 11 seconds from going up 3-1 in the DAL series. DAL looks to be having their way with COL now. Fans best be careful what they wish for because if you trade Gaudreau and Monahan now, you may as well have a fire sale and call it “Scorched Earth” because the return for the top two are not going to make us better while the other good players continue to waste or depreciate. Remember the “Young Gun Era”? Flames were close to skipping town for better pastures because there was no support here for losing.

 

If fans are not willing to buy a season ticket (or two) during a “scorched earth” approach, then they have NO SAY on the matter.

 

I’m not saying it’s not the best way to go, simply pointing out another rebuild could put us back 5-6yrs (of losing) with no guarantees. Who is footing the bill in the meantime?

 

With the introduction of the lottery, the old days of losing for the best young prospects are gone. No more reward for losing. 

[Thebrewcrew]

13 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I just checked, 9 teams have won since 04, over a period of 16 yrs. Many of those teams lost for a good many years while picking up guaranteed top draft picks like WAS, CHI, PIT, LA, ANA. Whereas others did it the hard way like DET, BOS, CAR, STL. These few tried to win every year and finally punched through.

 

Underachievement is not what I would call the Flames. Who’s underachieving?

 

Gaudreau, drafted 104 OA? I would argue that he has over-achieved in his time here. 8 pts in the postseason and +/-0. He held his own.

 

Monahan, drafted 6 OA? Not many have scored more goals in this league since he arrived. 7 pts in the post season and a +/- 0, he held his own.

 

Bennet, drafted 4 OA? This guy is a warrior come playoff time. Somewhat of a liability during the regular season.

 

Gio, drafted……opps, found in the dollar store? Gio has been an overachiever his whole career, but certainly showing signs of a depreciating 37yr old now.

 

Hamonic, elected to take summer vacation instead?

 

Tkachuk, who was concussed and missed the last 3 games?

 

Lucic, who turned out to be a true leader for this team?

 

Talbot? I think Talbot was tremendous, minus the last game.

 

We were 11 seconds from going up 3-1 in the DAL series. DAL looks to be having their way with COL now. Fans best be careful what they wish for because if you trade Gaudreau and Monahan now, you may as well have a fire sale and call it “Scorched Earth” because the return for the top two are not going to make us better while the other good players continue to waste or depreciate. Remember the “Young Gun Era”? Flames were close to skipping town for better pastures because there was no support here for losing.

 

If fans are not willing to buy a season ticket (or two) during a “scorched earth” approach, then they have NO SAY on the matter.

 

I’m not saying it’s not the best way to go, simply pointing out another rebuild could put us back 5-6yrs (of losing) with no guarantees. Who is footing the bill in the meantime?

 

With the introduction of the lottery, the old days of losing for the best young prospects are gone. No more reward for losing. 

This is a good post.

 

I think you will see the Flames make a big trade of some sort. They won't completely pull the plug on this thing, they will look to make a move that gives them a better chance next year.

 

You definitely can't tank anymore. Look at COL, they had the best chance at winning the lotto in 17 and 19,  and fell to 4th. There's no guarantees. Look back at the 203-2016 rebuild, the Flames never moved up, it all comes down to luck.

 

While there are definitely areas the Flames need to address in order to pursue a cup, so much of the playoffs comes down to luck. If you go back and watch the highlights of any cup winner, that run is filled with fortunate bounces. The shot that you take that goes post and in, hits the post and deflects out of play when the opponent takes it. You get a PP on a questionable call, they miss an obvious penalty on you. The examples are endless. You definitely need to be playing your best hockey come playoff time, but even then it's not always enough. The Flames did enough to win that series against DAL, or force 7, but they had a couple tough breaks. Rieder broke his stick on a wide open net in OT of game 4, 2 crossbars in game 5. It's a game of inches and bounces.

 

 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

I just checked, 9 teams have won since 04, over a period of 16 yrs. Many of those teams lost for a good many years while picking up guaranteed top draft picks like WAS, CHI, PIT, LA, ANA. Whereas others did it the hard way like DET, BOS, CAR, STL. These few tried to win every year and finally punched through.

 

Underachievement is not what I would call the Flames. Who’s underachieving?

 

Gaudreau, drafted 104 OA? I would argue that he has over-achieved in his time here. 8 pts in the postseason and +/-0. He held his own.

 

Monahan, drafted 6 OA? Not many have scored more goals in this league since he arrived. 7 pts in the post season and a +/- 0, he held his own.

 

Bennet, drafted 4 OA? This guy is a warrior come playoff time. Somewhat of a liability during the regular season.

 

Gio, drafted……opps, found in the dollar store? Gio has been an overachiever his whole career, but certainly showing signs of a depreciating 37yr old now.

 

Hamonic, elected to take summer vacation instead?

 

Tkachuk, who was concussed and missed the last 3 games?

 

Lucic, who turned out to be a true leader for this team?

 

Talbot? I think Talbot was tremendous, minus the last game.

 

We were 11 seconds from going up 3-1 in the DAL series. DAL looks to be having their way with COL now. Fans best be careful what they wish for because if you trade Gaudreau and Monahan now, you may as well have a fire sale and call it “Scorched Earth” because the return for the top two are not going to make us better while the other good players continue to waste or depreciate. Remember the “Young Gun Era”? Flames were close to skipping town for better pastures because there was no support here for losing.

 

If fans are not willing to buy a season ticket (or two) during a “scorched earth” approach, then they have NO SAY on the matter.

 

I’m not saying it’s not the best way to go, simply pointing out another rebuild could put us back 5-6yrs (of losing) with no guarantees. Who is footing the bill in the meantime?

 

With the introduction of the lottery, the old days of losing for the best young prospects are gone. No more reward for losing. 

 

Personally I am fine with losing for 5-6 years if it means that we could get the right pieces to win, and yes I know there are no guarantees. 

 

IMO this core doesn't have what it takes to get over the hump. They will continue to be just good enough to make the playoffs and maybe they might win a round, but that's not good enough.

 

I want a team that is a legit contender, not a playoff bubble team.

 

I would rather take my chances with the lottery than with this current core.

 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This is a good post.

 

I think you will see the Flames make a big trade of some sort. They won't completely pull the plug on this thing, they will look to make a move that gives them a better chance next year.

 

You definitely can't tank anymore. Look at COL, they had the best chance at winning the lotto in 17 and 19,  and fell to 4th. There's no guarantees. Look back at the 203-2016 rebuild, the Flames never moved up, it all comes down to luck.

 

While there are definitely areas the Flames need to address in order to pursue a cup, so much of the playoffs comes down to luck. If you go back and watch the highlights of any cup winner, that run is filled with fortunate bounces. The shot that you take that goes post and in, hits the post and deflects out of play when the opponent takes it. You get a PP on a questionable call, they miss an obvious penalty on you. The examples are endless. You definitely need to be playing your best hockey come playoff time, but even then it's not always enough. The Flames did enough to win that series against DAL, or force 7, but they had a couple tough breaks. Rieder broke his stick on a wide open net in OT of game 4, 2 crossbars in game 5. It's a game of inches and bounces.

 

 

 

I wish we could end up like Colorado:

 

Landeskog 2nd overall

MacKinnon 1st overall

Jost 10th overall

Rantanen 10th overall

Makar 4th overall

Byram 4th overall

Newhook 16th overall

 

What a great core to build around for years to come. They are loaded.

[Thebrewcrew]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I wish we could end up like Colorado:

 

Landeskog 2nd overall

MacKinnon 1st overall

Jost 10th overall

Rantanen 10th overall

Makar 4th overall

Byram 4th overall

Newhook 16th overall

 

What a great core to build around for years to come. They are loaded.

Hindsight being 20/20, but when Feaster offered all 3 2013 1st's to COL for #1, I wish he would have included the 2014 1st as well, that may have been enough to get it done. It's a lot to give up, but it would be so worth it, building around Gaudreau and Mackinnon

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This is a good post.

 

I think you will see the Flames make a big trade of some sort. They won't completely pull the plug on this thing, they will look to make a move that gives them a better chance next year.

 

You definitely can't tank anymore. Look at COL, they had the best chance at winning the lotto in 17 and 19,  and fell to 4th. There's no guarantees. Look back at the 203-2016 rebuild, the Flames never moved up, it all comes down to luck.

 

While there are definitely areas the Flames need to address in order to pursue a cup, so much of the playoffs comes down to luck. If you go back and watch the highlights of any cup winner, that run is filled with fortunate bounces. The shot that you take that goes post and in, hits the post and deflects out of play when the opponent takes it. You get a PP on a questionable call, they miss an obvious penalty on you. The examples are endless. You definitely need to be playing your best hockey come playoff time, but even then it's not always enough. The Flames did enough to win that series against DAL, or force 7, but they had a couple tough breaks. Rieder broke his stick on a wide open net in OT of game 4, 2 crossbars in game 5. It's a game of inches and bounces.

 

 

Its a game of inches and bounces, you cant make emotional decisions because there are 30 other GM's waiting to offer you a Kleenex (NOT). BT is the sort to sniff out all options. I'm ok with BT moving forward. 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Personally I am fine with losing for 5-6 years if it means that we could get the right pieces to win, and yes I know there are no guarantees. 

 

IMO this core doesn't have what it takes to get over the hump. They will continue to be just good enough to make the playoffs and maybe they might win a round, but that's not good enough.

 

I want a team that is a legit contender, not a playoff bubble team.

 

I would rather take my chances with the lottery than with this current core.

 

I want a team that is a legit contender too.

Taking a chance with lottery would mean tearing it down and you sitting in a Dome seat 40 games a year for the next umpteen years watching and waiting. 

I'm thinking you gone after one season.

 

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I wish we could end up like Colorado:

 

Landeskog 2nd overall

MacKinnon 1st overall

Jost 10th overall

Rantanen 10th overall

Makar 4th overall

Byram 4th overall

Newhook 16th overall

 

What a great core to build around for years to come. They are loaded.

Landeskog -one more year and he gone.

MacKinnon -signed a fools deal, not sure if he sleeps at night because of it.

Jost -nothing fancy and looking to get paid next season.

Rantanen -locked in, but should be ashamed for taking Mac's $

Makar -one more year then will be looking for the fences.

Byram -will see

Newhook -will see

 

Other than Mac, Flames aren't far off when it comes to talent.

 

[tmac70]

9 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The only reason we beat a depleted Winnipeg and had chance to beat Dallas, was because of great goaltending from Talbot, and the 3rd line. The 2nd line was ok. For the 2nd year in a row the top line was a no show. 

 

If our top 6 can't show up in the playoffs, then we aren't close. Getting another coach, isn't going to make a difference, because we have tried that. Getting a Taylor Hall isn't going to change anything, because one player isn't going to make 5 other top 6 players become playoff performers.

 

For me Gaudreau needs to go, and one of if not both Monahan or Backlund need to go, if not both. These players are good players, but they just don't have that ability to raise their game and to raise others around them when the pressure is at it's highest. I think it's time for a change. This core got it's shot, it didn't work, now it's time to move on.

Not sure its fair Gaudreau takes the brunt of the lack of success. I thought Gadreau was ok against Dallas . In all true how were the standouts ? Benny, Dube, Reider and Talbot. So if blame is to be worn its on the rest of the playerss were no shows

[JTech780]

16 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I want a team that is a legit contender too.

Taking a chance with lottery would mean tearing it down and you sitting in a Dome seat 40 games a year for the next umpteen years watching and waiting. 

I'm thinking you gone after one season.

 

Landeskog -one more year and he gone.

MacKinnon -signed a fools deal, not sure if he sleeps at night because of it.

Jost -nothing fancy and looking to get paid next season.

Rantanen -locked in, but should be ashamed for taking Mac's $

Makar -one more year then will be looking for the fences.

Byram -will see

Newhook -will see

 

Other than Mac, Flames aren't far off when it comes to talent.

 

 

I don't think they are close talent wise.

 

First off we don't have anyone close to MacKinnon who is a top 3 player in the league.

 

Secondly we don't have a player on the same level as Rantanen either.

 

Thirdly we don't have a player close Makar.

 

Tkachuk is equal to Landeskog.

 

We also don't have any prospects close to Newhook or Byram.

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

27 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I want a team that is a legit contender too.

Taking a chance with lottery would mean tearing it down and you sitting in a Dome seat 40 games a year for the next umpteen years watching and waiting. 

I'm thinking you gone after one season.

 

Landeskog -one more year and he gone.

MacKinnon -signed a fools deal, not sure if he sleeps at night because of it.

Jost -nothing fancy and looking to get paid next season.

Rantanen -locked in, but should be ashamed for taking Mac's $

Makar -one more year then will be looking for the fences.

Byram -will see

Newhook -will see

 

Other than Mac, Flames aren't far off when it comes to talent.

 

You mean like since '89? (04 was not by design)  As an out of towner cheering from afar the ticket part is moot with me, but I still tire of the coulda, shoulda, didn't results that have plagued the organization more often than not.  If not already the fanbase is gonna tire of tweaks that dont result in improvements, and if this offseason results in a full on commited teardown or a major shakeup of the core pieces I'm all for it.

 

Enough of the status quo.

[robrob74]

 Johnny is saying all of the right things. He says he’d like to play his career in Calgary 

[MP5029]

Well now I don’t think a full blow up is needed...the team can play and compete with some of the big dogs, they do seem to lack the drive and will to win...the only guy on this team with that is Tachuck and it shows when he’s out of the line up, so we need more players like that who can step up.

 

the question, is it the core group players lacking that or the supporting cast?

 

well honestly I think now we know it’s the core guys, while they are not bad players, they are not leaders like Tachuck.

 

its time for some change, starting with the C going to Tachuck and the 2 A’s I’d be looking and bringing in at least one more top 6 RW power type To wear the one of the A’s and the other has to be either Anderson or bringing in a top rated D.

 

i think we need more grit or as Burke likes to call it, more sandpaper in our top 6 (but obviously not lugs with no talent as that never works we have done that many times)

[travel_dude]

What I am wondering is whether we have anyone on the farm that is ready or could be ready very soon.

I'm probably higher on Zavgorodny than a lot here, but he has something we don't see much of in the top 9.

Speed and finish.  A RHS for a change.  Perhaps another Dube in the making.

And then there is Pelletier.

Is he close this year or is another year in junior needed.

I suspect the latter.

And then there is Phillips and Gawdin.

 

In that list there are perhaps 2 players that could be more impactful than Janko and Rieder.

Or freakin Rinaldo.

Could Gawdin replace the need to have Ryan?

On defense, does Yelesin have enough cred to make the top 7.

In the 4 games he played, he was steady.

Do we really need a player like Gus for just PP skills?

 

Where am I going with this.

Well, I don't want to blow it up.

But I also am tired of the mediocre players we tend to sign or trade for.

Rieder was fine, but is that all we hope for?

Janko - there's a player that could rebound, but he's too costly to take that chance again.

Ryan - fine, but doesn't move the needle for me.  He's the definition of a safe player.

Gus and Forbs?  We can do better.

Hamonic - a warrior that lost 50% of his game.

Gio - just doesn't show up for playoffs.

Backlund - even with more offensive start, still had a rough playoffs.

 

A change to the core is needed, just not sure that pieces playing on the top line is the place to start.

They get you to the playoffs, but the rest of the team needs to carry some water in the playoffs.

Like Bennett, Dube, Lucic, Ras and Talbot did.

Rieder is the kind of player you need every once in awhile.

 

 

[Sarasti]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

What I am wondering is whether we have anyone on the farm that is ready or could be ready very soon.

I'm probably higher on Zavgorodny than a lot here, but he has something we don't see much of in the top 9.

Speed and finish.  A RHS for a change.  Perhaps another Dube in the making.

And then there is Pelletier.

Is he close this year or is another year in junior needed.

I suspect the latter.

And then there is Phillips and Gawdin.

 

In that list there are perhaps 2 players that could be more impactful than Janko and Rieder.

Or freakin Rinaldo.

Could Gawdin replace the need to have Ryan?

On defense, does Yelesin have enough cred to make the top 7.

In the 4 games he played, he was steady.

Do we really need a player like Gus for just PP skills?

 

Where am I going with this.

Well, I don't want to blow it up.

But I also am tired of the mediocre players we tend to sign or trade for.

Rieder was fine, but is that all we hope for?

Janko - there's a player that could rebound, but he's too costly to take that chance again.

Ryan - fine, but doesn't move the needle for me.  He's the definition of a safe player.

Gus and Forbs?  We can do better.

Hamonic - a warrior that lost 50% of his game.

Gio - just doesn't show up for playoffs.

Backlund - even with more offensive start, still had a rough playoffs.

 

A change to the core is needed, just not sure that pieces playing on the top line is the place to start.

They get you to the playoffs, but the rest of the team needs to carry some water in the playoffs.

Like Bennett, Dube, Lucic, Ras and Talbot did.

Rieder is the kind of player you need every once in awhile.

 

 

 

I'm with you on Zavgorodniy. Huge fan here.

 

As for Pelletier I think he makes a serious push for a roster spot this coming season, he is close.

 

I would not bring back Gus or Forbort.

Both are good for special teams but I'd rather we groom Andersson/Hanifin/Valimaki to be effective in these situations as well, as we cannot afford the defensive gaffes that Gus and Forbort provide 5 on 5.

 

I'd like to drop Janko but bring back Rieder. Both are good on the PK but Rieder provides more energy and speed.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

What I am wondering is whether we have anyone on the farm that is ready or could be ready very soon.

I'm probably higher on Zavgorodny than a lot here, but he has something we don't see much of in the top 9.

Speed and finish.  A RHS for a change.  Perhaps another Dube in the making.

And then there is Pelletier.

Is he close this year or is another year in junior needed.

I suspect the latter.

And then there is Phillips and Gawdin.

 

In that list there are perhaps 2 players that could be more impactful than Janko and Rieder.

Or freakin Rinaldo.

Could Gawdin replace the need to have Ryan?

On defense, does Yelesin have enough cred to make the top 7.

In the 4 games he played, he was steady.

Do we really need a player like Gus for just PP skills?

 

Where am I going with this.

Well, I don't want to blow it up.

But I also am tired of the mediocre players we tend to sign or trade for.

Rieder was fine, but is that all we hope for?

Janko - there's a player that could rebound, but he's too costly to take that chance again.

Ryan - fine, but doesn't move the needle for me.  He's the definition of a safe player.

Gus and Forbs?  We can do better.

Hamonic - a warrior that lost 50% of his game.

Gio - just doesn't show up for playoffs.

Backlund - even with more offensive start, still had a rough playoffs.

 

A change to the core is needed, just not sure that pieces playing on the top line is the place to start.

They get you to the playoffs, but the rest of the team needs to carry some water in the playoffs.

Like Bennett, Dube, Lucic, Ras and Talbot did.

Rieder is the kind of player you need every once in awhile.

 

 

This is the part I take issue with. The top lines BARELY got you to the playoffs then disappeared for the most part. You can play musical chairs with the 3rd and 4th lines until you find something that works but at the end of the day its all for nothing if your top 6 aren't performing.

[Heartbreaker]

It's been said here before, but let's get this man the 'C'. 

Love.

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

This is the part I take issue with. The top lines BARELY got you to the playoffs then disappeared for the most part. You can play musical chairs with the 3rd and 4th lines until you find something that works but at the end of the day its all for nothing if your top 6 aren't performing.

 

So, I would point to regular season production.

Only Tkachuk had better totals.

They did finish the season the same way they worked in the playoofs.

Mostly (if not all) PP production.

 

Let's also not forget that the defense used to be part of the scoring for the team.

The top line's production dipped because the D wasn't scoring or assisting on scoring much.

I would point to the 2nd line as being a big reason why we are talking blow up.

Yes, the top line didn't produce.  In fact only the 3rd line really did.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

It's been said here before, but let's get this man the 'C'. 

Love.

 

This is exactly what a leader looks like.

[jjgallow]

17 hours ago, CheersMan said:

I just checked, 9 teams have won since 04, over a period of 16 yrs. Many of those teams lost for a good many years while picking up guaranteed top draft picks like WAS, CHI, PIT, LA, ANA. Whereas others did it the hard way like DET, BOS, CAR, STL. These few tried to win every year and finally punched through.

 

Underachievement is not what I would call the Flames. Who’s underachieving?

 

The other 22 teams are underachieving.   Let's get some standards here folks, we have a nice City.

 

Very, very few of those 22 teams have done as poorly in the playoffs as we have in the last decade though.

 

There is nothing average about our playoff troubles and even if there was,

 

There is nothing ok about average.

[The_People1]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

This is exactly what a leader looks like.

 

I agree.  Tkachuk has done statistically worse than Gaudreau and Monahan and yet, he's not hiding.  He's saying "blame me instead".  

[CheersMan]

50 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The other 22 teams are underachieving.   Let's get some standards here folks, we have a nice City.

 

Very, very few of those 22 teams have done as poorly in the playoffs as we have in the last decade though.

 

There is nothing average about our playoff troubles and even if there was,

 

There is nothing ok about average.

No where in my post did I defend Flames playoff history, I was referring to this team.  I believe “Blow-up” refers to our best players, that being SM and JHG specifically, both of whom are either a top 10 goal-scorer or pay-maker in this league. I’m not convinced moving them now at 70 cents on the dollar will bring back an equivalent, but instead cast us to the bottom with the other basement dwellers for who knows how long. We still have a window of time with these guys at a decent dollar, might be best to add some complementary pieces now and give it another shot. The past does not dictate the future.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The other 22 teams are underachieving.   Let's get some standards here folks, we have a nice City.

 

Very, very few of those 22 teams have done as poorly in the playoffs as we have in the last decade though.

 

There is nothing average about our playoff troubles and even if there was,

 

There is nothing ok about average.

 

If you include the rest of the decade as being a reason why we should blow it up, I disagree.

5 years ago has nothing to do with today.

Last year is reasonable to include.

Over 2 years we fell for different reasons that appear to be the same.

Did not compete and were embarrassed vs did not get desired results.

 

Hey, I get the idea of blowing it up and changing the team.

That would need to include Lucic and Backlund and Gio quite frankly all but a few players.

The chances of getting it right from the ground up are slim.

Worth the cost to do so?  You tell me.