Blow It Up?

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I will be glad when the summer "blow it up" season is over for this team.  Not that this thread bothers me, just there seems to be so much negativity about anything about this team.  My problem with this team is that we are yet to see a good roster, good trades and signings, a good coach happen at the same time.  Have a good roster, lousy coach.  Have a good roster sign garbage and get into cap trouble.  Have a great season for results, ruin that with poor coaching decisions and poor goaltending.  There's only so much a GM can do.  That includes stripping down the team to a point that can still be recovered.  Were we to trade Huberdeau, Lindholm, Backlund, Weegar, Hanifin, Kadri, Mangiapane, Markstrom, Vladar we would never get back enough to rebuild in less than 6 years.  And that would include signing crap to maintain the prospects we do have.  

 

So, we can continue with a thread that talks about something we are not doing and justify or criticize it, but it's kinda pointless.  We aren't going there anytime soon.  The crazy trade suggestions are more likely.  

 

Maybe time for a new kind of thread.   Not a blow it up thread bit a building type thread.

 

We already blew it up

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I will be glad when the summer "blow it up" season is over for this team.  Not that this thread bothers me, just there seems to be so much negativity about anything about this team.  My problem with this team is that we are yet to see a good roster, good trades and signings, a good coach happen at the same time.  Have a good roster, lousy coach.  Have a good roster sign garbage and get into cap trouble.  Have a great season for results, ruin that with poor coaching decisions and poor goaltending.  There's only so much a GM can do.  That includes stripping down the team to a point that can still be recovered.  Were we to trade Huberdeau, Lindholm, Backlund, Weegar, Hanifin, Kadri, Mangiapane, Markstrom, Vladar we would never get back enough to rebuild in less than 6 years.  And that would include signing crap to maintain the prospects we do have.  

 

So, we can continue with a thread that talks about something we are not doing and justify or criticize it, but it's kinda pointless.  We aren't going there anytime soon.  The crazy trade suggestions are more likely.  

 If history has taught us anything the blow it up season will resume 7 games in if theyre not 7-0-0.

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There are 31 teams every year with the same questions. They are all formulated differently. The same formula rarely works consistently. The closest being TBay and then a bunch of one offs. St. Loo was a giant fail, fire Yeo and hire Berube, give it a month and suddenly they plough through everyone to a cup. The Avs got their 1, but what happened to that Colorado vs Boston final that everyone and their dog predicted? All of it is very unpredictable.

Adin Hill earned his keep. Chicago had one of the worst goalies I've seen in the NHL. But TBay had Vasilevsky put them on his back. FLA squeaks in and nearly wills their way with a goalie that became the brunt of jokes. There are so many ways and so many factors. All of them are kinda fun and many unexpected. It would be boring if it was the same thing constantly.

There are many things to celebrate, but if you are thinking it's "only a cup" prepare to stay miserable. It's the pinnacle, but if it's the only reason to watch and cheer, I wouldn't bother personally.

If we get back to a fun product to watch that has a chance I'll celebrate that. That's all I can ask. Last year we were one of the most frustrating and boring teams to watch in the entire league. If that ends, I'll celebrate. I like hockey and I want to be entertained. I don't want to hate on everyone if we come up short when the effort is there. Leave it all on the ice is all that I can cheer for. Last year was a hard watch. Always felt like they played tense, instead of intense. Most games I felt like they never left it all on the ice.

There was just no passion. So how do they expect me to remain passionate as a fan?

I'm confident all of that is about to change for the better. That alone should be celebrated. It's a looong season. I'd be fine if they cut it back from 82 games. Because the playoffs are an absolute war. Go 70 games and add playoff playdowns for 7th and 8th seeds.

But yeah, there is a lot of enjoyment(we hope) beyond a cup. The pinnacle is the pinnacle. It doesn't make the other 7 months meaningless. Or why even watch the regular season? Take up crochet or something. Everyone gets a quilt for Christmas!

 

By this token, there are lots to celebrate during 9-straight playoff-less seasons.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

All paths are not equal.

 

I agree with you on the importance of winning the cup.

 

But how we get there does matter to me, and there is most definitely a difference in success rates between those paths.

 

What we've been doing lately is patching our core every year through either FA signings or trades for our picks.  With an emphasis on established veterans.  The result that you get is a team which is competitive but always lacks something intangible.

 

I personally can't stand teams that do this.   It has a very low success rate at winning cups, the resulting teams seem to lack a soul, and, also, we are absolutely the wrong market for this approach.     

 

The "prototype" of this was the Rangers.  Another was Toronto for many years.     The Rangers were impossible to really like, at least for me.   A fully rented team with nobody really devoted.   They were a big city so they could afford and attract all the UFAs, but there was no passion.   They did win the cup...once, on a Messier acquisition which simply over-powered all that.

 

However, when the biggest, richest city in the NHL/North America only manages one cup on what most consider to be a bit of a miracle, then we as a small-market team deploying this same approach is ...laughable, and basically resigning ourselves to never...and I mean never...winning a cup.   As demonstrated by Toronto, who is still a bigger city than us.

 

All paths...not equal.

 

 

Most of the Cup winners had strong drafting, strong development, investment in their future, were built from the goalie (or at least defence) out, and a had long term plan.   They might have picked up one rental months before their cup win but it was not really their story.

 

It doesn't Have to happen through a "rebuild", however we define that.   However it commonly does, and we are so far-gone right now that this is basically unavoidable, so imho a moot point.

 

 

Strangely enough, I think we are all arguing with each other about how we're going to mentally adjust to what is to come for the Flames.   We'll have different definitions and perspectives on it but where we are headed is becoming quite clear.

 

When I see a long term plan (that makes sense past one year), draft pick accumulation instead of depletion, a strong development system, trades that make us younger, then I know we are putting the pieces together that most cup winners also put together prior to winning it all.     That doesn't mean we think it's easy @cross16, lol

 

For sures, some paths have statistically proven to win more Cups than others.  I mean, the point is to win the Cup, not to simply lose less than the others.

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

By this token, there are lots to celebrate during 9-straight playoff-less seasons.

You make your own fun.lol

Even the last couple years of making the playoffs were, "damn this team is bad". Who knew the 24 or whatever years of playoffs would be offset by 24 non? The Wings have been every shade of horrendousness to elite in my lifetime but the fanbase still manages to keep it light at games. When they have the Lions and Pistons, it's easy to simply treat sports as entertainment rather than, well, like Canadian fanbases treat hockey. Going to Flames games vs Cdn teams will always be my worst experiences for fan behaviour. Hawks vs Wings as rivals in the playoffs is nowhere near as toxic as, say, Jets vs Flames in like game 7 of the regular season.

I went to a Van vs Edm game with 3 STH and 4 Van fans sat beside. My friends rearranged so I (in my Monahan jersey) was in between. They instantly hated each other. The 1 Oilers guy with us that I didn't know refused to talk to me because I had a Flames jersey.

The idiocy is overwhelming. Not much learning about other teams/people/places when obstinate Hash Rate is the direction people decide to take on their expensive night out.

[kehatch]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:50 PM, The_People1 said:

 

For sures, some paths have statistically proven to win more Cups than others.  I mean, the point is to win the Cup, not to simply lose less than the others.

 

The point isn't to win a cup.  Its to make money.  You say perpetually mediocre.  They say perpetually competitive.