Blow It Up?

[The_People1]

Please vote.

 

While it may be unlikely the Flames make any major changes this off-season, how much change would you like to see?  How much change do you think is required to make a real difference?

[jjgallow]

If there was a level 4 I would have voted for it.    The fact that someone allowed Treliving to be here this long makes me not sure Level 3 is enough.

 

Quick mention though:    "Everyone" does not mean guys like Tkachuk, obviously.   

 

Anyone under 23 years of age "can" stay as far as I'm concerned.    In the same breath they don't have to stay.   I don't think Tkachuk or anyone else is "untouchable".  If we traded him and got a good return I'd be fine, he's a LW and there are a lot of LWs.

 

Anyone who has no value, can also stay.  Because we don't have a pipeline or prospects, so they're not in the way of development.     Unfortunately, a lot of what people think is our Core, actually falls into this category.  We waited too long and much of our "core" per say, has no real trading value.

 

A few pieces do have value.   Not nearly as much now as they did.  But Gaudreau, for instance...is an obvious move.

 

People always want to trade away the bad players and keep the good.  Well, the reality is that's not going to get us anywhere.
Key players of value who are too old to be part of the next generation:

• Gaudreau
• Lindholm
• Monahan

Mangiapane  (might get a little bit back?)

Backlund (not sure you get anything back?)

Brodie  (not sure you get anything back?)

Giordano (not sure you get anything back?)

 

Unfortunately those are our only valuable pieces within the age to let go.

 

"Blow it up" is really just a matter of 3 players.

[Heartbreaker]

Y'know, I'm not even mad about this. My wife, from Brazil, has this saying - roughly translated from Portuguese: 

What's a fart when you've already 5h!t yourself?

It seemed especially pertinent during Game 6 against the Stars. I might feel differently if the Stars go on to win the cup, and we have to hear for the next six weeks about how "the turning point was when we were 12 seconds away from being down 3-1", or "when we we're down 3-0 in the first seven minutes against the Flames", but I don't think either of those things are going to happen. In that sense, we're not nearly as tormented a fanbase as they have in Toronto. 

With that said, I do think that it would be a mistake to not make any changes. If there's a good deal to be made for 23 or 13, then give it some real thought. No player is untouchable, but I don't think that most GMs value our players as highly as we do. I definitely think that Giordano should pass the torch, and I believe that he would do it with grace. He's not a top pair defenceman in this league anymore, and that's fine.

There are a few issues that I see going into next year will definitely need to be sorted out in order for this team to have any success: 
 

• What are they going to do on the right side with the D? With Hamonic and Brodie both UFA, that creates a real problem, and I don't believe that we have nearly the depth that we've been accustomed to the last few years. 
• Who is going to be the coach? 
• What happens in net? Talbot basically came out and said that he wasn't happy, but did the coach totally alienate Rittich in the playoffs? Two years in a row when they probably should have put him in at some point, and in both years, he was shunned for someone on an expiring contract that would be the guy in a losing effort. 

 
And then, of course, there's the usual set of questions, like what the hell do we do to address the #1 center issue? Maybe you get on in a trade, but they're not cheap, and we're probably not picking high enough to draft one. 

I might be the exception, but I actually do have some faith in Brad Treliving. I think he's done a pretty good job with this team, and this is going to be a hell of an off-season. Remember the last time we were going to have a hell of an off-season? Jay Feaster was our GM. 

It's also important to keep in mind that it wasn't that long ago that this team was the top team in the west. These exits have hurt, and there has been some degradation to our core, but we're not that bad. Hopefully, we can get a little bit lucky, and our GM is savvy enough to get us out of mediocrity, which, I think is probably one of the hardest jobs in the league. 

Love. 

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

If there was a level 4 I would have voted for it.    The fact that someone allowed Treliving to be here this long makes me not sure Level 3 is enough.

 

Quick mention though:    "Everyone" does not mean guys like Tkachuk, obviously.   

 

Anyone under 23 years of age "can" stay as far as I'm concerned.    In the same breath they don't have to stay.   I don't think Tkachuk or anyone else is "untouchable".  If we traded him and got a good return I'd be fine, he's a LW and there are a lot of LWs.

 

Anyone who has no value, can also stay.  Because we don't have a pipeline or prospects, so they're not in the way of development.     Unfortunately, a lot of what people think is our Core, actually falls into this category.  We waited too long and much of our "core" per say, has no real trading value.

 

A few pieces do have value.   Not nearly as much now as they did.  But Gaudreau, for instance...is an obvious move.

 

People always want to trade away the bad players and keep the good.  Well, the reality is that's not going to get us anywhere.
Key players of value who are too old to be part of the next generation:

• Gaudreau
• Lindholm
• Monahan

Mangiapane  (might get a little bit back?)

Backlund (not sure you get anything back?)

Brodie  (not sure you get anything back?)

Giordano (not sure you get anything back?)

 

Unfortunately those are our only valuable pieces within the age to let go.

 

"Blow it up" is really just a matter of 3 players.

 

It doesn't allow me to vote because i started the topic but i would say i'm at a Level 2.  I'm at least one more year away from Level 3.

 

SInce Treliving has been here, it's been a honeymoon ride all the way.  It's hard for it to not have been because he took a totally rekt team in 2014 to Conference best last season.  He hasn't really had to face harsh criticism until his team totally flopped in last year's playoffs.  This is really the first season where Treliving had a microscope on him.  The team came into the season with cautious optimism and i feel the final result affirms everyone's worst fears.  The team he put together isn't good enough.

 

Now my biggest concern is that he's too married to his core that he can't make the right but tough moves.  I'm willing to give him one more year to show us.  I know it's so crazy to say in this world of extreme virtue signalling but if he's able to put aside personal relationships for strictly business then i think we have the right guy in charge.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

Y'know, I'm not even mad about this. My wife, from Brazil, has this saying - roughly translated from Portuguese: 

What's a fart when you've already 5h!t yourself?

It seemed especially pertinent during Game 6 against the Stars. I might feel differently if the Stars go on to win the cup, and we have to hear for the next six weeks about how "the turning point was when we were 12 seconds away from being down 3-1", or "when we we're down 3-0 in the first seven minutes against the Flames", but I don't think either of those things are going to happen. In that sense, we're not nearly as tormented a fanbase as they have in Toronto. 

With that said, I do think that it would be a mistake to not make any changes. If there's a good deal to be made for 23 or 13, then give it some real thought. No player is untouchable, but I don't think that most GMs value our players as highly as we do. I definitely think that Giordano should pass the torch, and I believe that he would do it with grace. He's not a top pair defenceman in this league anymore, and that's fine.

There are a few issues that I see going into next year will definitely need to be sorted out in order for this team to have any success: 
 

• What are they going to do on the right side with the D? With Hamonic and Brodie both UFA, that creates a real problem, and I don't believe that we have nearly the depth that we've been accustomed to the last few years. 
• Who is going to be the coach? 
• What happens in net? Talbot basically came out and said that he wasn't happy, but did the coach totally alienate Rittich in the playoffs? Two years in a row when they probably should have put him in at some point, and in both years, he was shunned for someone on an expiring contract that would be the guy in a losing effort. 

 
And then, of course, there's the usual set of questions, like what the hell do we do to address the #1 center issue? Maybe you get on in a trade, but they're not cheap, and we're probably not picking high enough to draft one. 

I might be the exception, but I actually do have some faith in Brad Treliving. I think he's done a pretty good job with this team, and this is going to be a hell of an off-season. Remember the last time we were going to have a hell of an off-season? Jay Feaster was our GM. 

It's also important to keep in mind that it wasn't that long ago that this team was the top team in the west. These exits have hurt, and there has been some degradation to our core, but we're not that bad. Hopefully, we can get a little bit lucky, and our GM is savvy enough to get us out of mediocrity, which, I think is probably one of the hardest jobs in the league. 

Love. 

 

Well, I think it would be folly to trade both Backlund and Monahan.

Let's face it, we are going to go after Hall, so Monahan makes the most sense to play with.

He won't lose puck battles as easily and he can do some things JH could do.

 

I think that we have to gut the D.

Starting with Gio, since he has the biggest voice in the room.

I'm okay with Ras, Valimaki, Kylington and Hanifin.

It's not a great core, but I think they would be less prone to mental errors over time.

 

Gaudreau, Gio, Janko, RInaldo, BSD all should go.

None of then other than JG really gets you much,

Keep Rieder because I like to spit in Oiler faces.

 

It's not like we don;t have players on the farm, we just never have any idea if their readiness.

Bring in a good #3C and find a stude D, maybe Montour.

Even Vatanen might be an option.

Or Manson.

We need at least one tough D-man. 

 

I don't see a re-build as a good thing because I think it gets done wrong too often.

We are too late to sell of the players that could have given us the most.

Norris Gio.

Monahan after consecutive good seasons.

Gaudreau after a miserable season and playofffs.

Playoff Bennett does us nothing in a rebuild.

 

That is all

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It doesn't allow me to vote because i started the topic but i would say i'm at a Level 2.  I'm at least one more year away from Level 3.

 

SInce Treliving has been here, it's been a honeymoon ride all the way.  It's hard for it to not have been because he took a totally rekt team in 2014 to Conference best last season.  He hasn't really had to face harsh criticism until his team totally flopped in last year's playoffs.  This is really the first season where Treliving had a microscope on him.  The team came into the season with cautious optimism and i feel the final result affirms everyone's worst fears.  The team he put together isn't good enough.

 

Now my biggest concern is that he's too married to his core that he can't make the right but tough moves.  I'm willing to give him one more year to show us.  I know it's so crazy to say in this world of extreme virtue signalling but if he's able to put aside personal relationships for strictly business then i think we have the right guy in charge.

Sorry I just really hate that assumption.  It's not easy making trades, he had one worked out (yes jeopardizing his personal relationships with Brodie and Jankowski), that the other player nixed because he is a GM of a team on most no trade lists and that's a fact.  He's traded Hamilton, Ferland, and bought out Brouwer and Raymond, and fired 3 coaches.  You want to make moves, but you want to make moves that benefit the club, we could easily trade Johnny Gaudreau but in that magnitude it has to be the right move, we can't take a Bouwmeester return here.

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

I might be the exception, but I actually do have some faith in Brad Treliving. I think he's done a pretty good job with this team, and this is going to be a hell of an off-season. Remember the last time we were going to have a hell of an off-season? Jay Feaster was our GM. 

 

I know man.  It's like we wanted Bill Morneau out just because... So okay then, Trudeau pulled him out and put in someone who was a career journalist with no formal education in finance and no work experience in finance to be our country's Minister of Finance.

 

Sorry for the politics reference but still, "be careful what you wish for."

 

Brad Treliving may not be the best of the best but i think he's one of the best our franchise has ever had.  He's hard working and that puts the Flames in conversation on every trade.  He's personable so he's got good rapport with other GMs which makes him among the first phone call on any players available around the NHL.  By all accounts, he trusts his scouts and doesn't micro-manage too hard.  He confides with Conroy and Gelinas who played the game at the highest levels.  Generally speaking, he's a good one.  Sure there are misses but every great GM in history has made mistakes.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know man.  It's like we wanted Bill Morneau out just because... So okay then, Trudeau pulled him out and put in someone who was a career journalist with no formal education in finance and no work experience in finance to be our country's Minister of Finance.

 

Sorry for the politics reference but still, "be careful what you wish for."

 

Brad Treliving may not be the best of the best but i think he's one of the best our franchise has ever had.  He's hard working and that puts the Flames in conversation on every trade.  He's personable so he's got good rapport with other GMs which makes him among the first phone call on any players available around the NHL.  By all accounts, he trusts his scouts and doesn't micro-manage too hard.  He confides with Conroy and Gelinas who played the game at the highest levels.  Generally speaking, he's a good one.  Sure there are misses but every great GM in history has made mistakes.

 

GM not the problem here

[The_People1]

16 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Sorry I just really hate that assumption.  It's not easy making trades, he had one worked out (yes jeopardizing his personal relationships with Brodie and Jankowski), that the other player nixed because he is a GM of a team on most no trade lists and that's a fact.  He's traded Hamilton, Ferland, and bought out Brouwer and Raymond, and fired 3 coaches.  You want to make moves, but you want to make moves that benefit the club, we could easily trade Johnny Gaudreau but in that magnitude it has to be the right move, we can't take a Bouwmeester return here.

 

That's not what I'm saying though.  I understand it's difficult to make trades because it takes two to tango.  In the case of the Brodie/Kadri trade, it took three.  Yet, Brodie and Jankowski are not core guys and that's what I meant.  Moving out peripheral pieces were easier.  Even Hamilton sounded like he wasn't liked in the dressing room so that was an easy one.  Brouwer and Raymond were not living up to their ends so they weren't extremely difficult jobs to do.

 

I'm just saying, Giordano, Gaudreau, Monahan, and even Tkachuk are at a different level.  I want to see he's heartless enough to do what's good for business and put aside personal relationships when it comes to his core players and his captains.  I don't want him to force a trade but if there's a good one, then he has to ask Giordano to waive his NTC.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

GM not the problem here

 

I would agree for now.

 

This off-season will be the toughest of his entire career.  Years ago he could do no wrong because we were a bad team with no fan expectations.  Things are very different now.  Very few fans celebrate just making the playoffs.  No one has an appetite for the same product next season.  Another one-and-done and BT is on the hot seat.

[robrob74]

45 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It doesn't allow me to vote because i started the topic but i would say i'm at a Level 2.  I'm at least one more year away from Level 3.

 

SInce Treliving has been here, it's been a honeymoon ride all the way.  It's hard for it to not have been because he took a totally rekt team in 2014 to Conference best last season.  He hasn't really had to face harsh criticism until his team totally flopped in last year's playoffs.  This is really the first season where Treliving had a microscope on him.  The team came into the season with cautious optimism and i feel the final result affirms everyone's worst fears.  The team he put together isn't good enough.

 

Now my biggest concern is that he's too married to his core that he can't make the right but tough moves.  I'm willing to give him one more year to show us.  I know it's so crazy to say in this world of extreme virtue signalling but if he's able to put aside personal relationships for strictly business then i think we have the right guy in charge.

 

honestly for me, even in a season we were #2, I felt the problems were lying underneath the whole time and they slowly came out last season. It’s been a slow fall. 
 

I don’t know. I am worried we get into trading picks to save the team. 
 

Hamilton wasn’t the worst deal but I’d have liked Barzal right now. 
plus I’d like to have been able to use the picks in the Hamonic Trade. 
 

although we don’t have lindholm and Hanifin. Although Hanifin did nothing against the Stars. 
 

but you’re right, he has been one of the better Flames GMs.

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t know. I am worried we get into trading picks to save the team. 
 

Hamilton wasn’t the worst deal but I’d have liked Barzal right now. 
plus I’d like to have been able to use the picks in the Hamonic Trade. 

 

Maybe a more important question we should ask is, if BT goes rebuild-mode this off-season, then does he extend his leash a few more years?  He buys time right?  Because we want to evaluate what he did worked or not?

 

BT has always looked for the shortcut win-now trade.  Unironically, this team needs a good win-now trade right now.  And in a sense, he's gone so far so why stop now?  Go big or go home?  When we were rebuilding and needed to stock the cupboards with prospects, BT traded away picks.  Now that we need NHL ready players, trade them away for picks?

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Maybe a more important question we should ask is, if BT goes rebuild-mode this off-season, then does he extend his leash a few more years?  He buys time right?  Because we want to evaluate what he did worked or not?

 

BT has always looked for the shortcut win-now trade.  Unironically, this team needs a good win-now trade right now.  And in a sense, he's gone so far so why stop now?  Go big or go home?

 

yup! But I am afraid of trading more picks to pick up the slack for the goaltending needs, and after tonight it is possible Ward completely killed the possibility of both goalies next year. 
 

and like some said, not playing Rittich for Two playoffs for goalies that were both UFA was poor management. 
 

now we have what to look for:

 

Starter

1C

RW

2 RSD
Backup

LW (Hall)

 

a few of those shortcuts was poor pick management. How many goalies every year? The door keeps revolving.

[Horsman1]

blow it up!! This team is built on Trelivings vision.. and it doesn;t work!!The entire scouting team who he trusts to a fault has zero vision of projecting a players character .. If they think that the people of Calgary will flock to watch this in a new stadium they aree sadly mistaken.. They may as well forget the naming rights and go with The Dumbotron because a new stadium will be nothing but a huge white elephant

 

[Horsman1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

GM not the problem here

i completely disagree.. I feel it is his vision that this failure of a team is built on and His scouting staff that is a dismal failure to project character of young men .. There is no sense in building a new stadium if this is the effort we are looking forward to as a team to spend money to follow

[MP5029]

The issue here that I have said for a while...and took grief for it is the lack of character and heart in the core players.

 

they have absolutely zero will to win!  
 

it’s pretty bad when your better player is Lucic.

 

The other issue is this team lacks grit and it’s leaders are too old, way too soft and having Tachuck our proved that in spades.   
 

first and foremost I’d be looking to move Bennet up the line up or trade him he’s wasting away in the bottom 6. 
 

As for keeping and trading players, I’d keep:

 

monahan (but for the #2 Ctr)

mang

lindhoml (again the #2 RW)

bennet (Age keeps him one more year)

Anderson 

Valimaki 

ritich 

Brodie 

 

 

as for trade options:

 

everyone else, especially older players over 30.  We need to target players like Lucic but with skill that can score...kinda like he was in Bos 

 

skill, speed, heart  and grit wins 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

5 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

i completely disagree.. I feel it is his vision that this failure of a team is built on and His scouting staff that is a dismal failure to project character of young men .. There is no sense in building a new stadium if this is the effort we are looking forward to as a team to spend money to follow

Although the scouting team may not be the best there is,  it is hardly the major problem. Add the fact the horrendous scouting the organization had to rely on as recent as 10 years ago I'm thinking scouting is the least of anyones worries.

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Although the scouting team may not be the best there is,  it is hardly the major problem. Add the fact the horrendous scouting the organization had to rely on as recent as 10 years ago I'm thinking scouting is the least of anyones worries.

The Flames have drafted very well the past 5 seasons, it's absolutely not an issue. 

 

For anyone that thinks it is, take a look at past BUF and FLA drafts. The Flames have done very well scouting and drafting lately

[cross16]

I understand people's feelings and arguments that Treliving needs to go, many of them are fair and valid. I'm still a fan and I still believe strongly he should stay in the role because while the playoffs have sucked under his tenure, the overall direction of the organization is very positive. They draft, develop and scout significantly better tan they have in decades, they are attractive to good hockey people, players/free agents, and are well respected in the circles. Your putting a lot of that at risk to change direction with a new GM so unless they have a rock start candidate, and i'm not seeing one, I don't see it as worth the risk. If there was a stellar candidate out there I could maybe get behind it but I don't see one, unless it's Conroy. That's the one person I would consider if behind the scenes he is proving his worth and showing potential than maybe that makes sense but to go external I don't think is the way to go. 

 

I think the need a core change but they have to be very cautious how they go about this. The tendency sometimes is to start making trades for the sake of change or trades to 'shake things up" and I think that's a dangerous way to go. The risk I see for the Flames is they have some solid young talent up coming (Tkachuk, Dube, Mang, Bennett, Lindholm, young d core, Valimaki etc) but not a lot of high end talent. So if you trade your high end talent for a shake up, and don't replace it you'll fall out of the playoffs IMO. That may be ok because then it becomes a "well get lottery picks" conversation which i could understand but I honestly believe that the Flames would remain competitive with the talent they have. If they want to move Gaudreau/Monahan etc (and i don't disagree with the reasons why) they have to get it right, or else I see them heading to the most awkward status of all. Not bad enough for lottery picks but not good enough for the playoffs. The place where this organization seems to love to live. 

 

Long winded way of me saying that yes you need big changes (anytime you touch your core its a big change) but it's going to be extremely tricky to do it. 

 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think the need a core change but they have to be very cautious how they go about this. The tendency sometimes is to start making trades for the sake of change or trades to 'shake things up" and I think that's a dangerous way to go. The risk I see for the Flames is they have some solid young talent up coming (Tkachuk, Dube, Mang, Bennett, Lindholm, young d core, Valimaki etc) but not a lot of high end talent. So if you trade your high end talent for a shake up, and don't replace it you'll fall out of the playoffs IMO. That may be ok because then it becomes a "well get lottery picks" conversation which i could understand but I honestly believe that the Flames would remain competitive with the talent they have. If they want to move Gaudreau/Monahan etc (and i don't disagree with the reasons why) they have to get it right, or else I see them heading to the most awkward status of all. Not bad enough for lottery picks but not good enough for the playoffs. The place where this organization seems to love to live. 

 

I would not trade both JH and Monahan.  We went too long without anything resembling a top C.  Yeah, Gaudreau may not be the best fit anymore, so that's where we need to start.  He used to be a game breaker, but has lost that.  I'm actually okay with trading him and signing Hall.  It doesn't make us better, but it at least gives us someone that could be looked to give more.  Johnny had a good game, but he can't defend at all.  He was on for too many goals against.  This wasn't a rare occasion either.  Hall may not be elite, but he is also a bit more even a player.  He has speed and does things.

 

I'm okay in trading Backlund if we have a potential top 6 C coming in via trade.  Not for Backlund obviously, but in another move.  That signals that we are going in a different direction, and will be prioritizing offense from the F and defense from the D.  Move Bennett to a full time role at C and get him decent wingers.  Tkachuk and Mangiapane or Lindholm.  Use him to his ability.  I know I had soured a bit on Sammy this season, but I think he might be on the brink of a breakout.  If you are trading Backlund, then Bennett takes some of the defensive responsibility, but it is shared from 1 to 3.  

 

Lastly, I think it is time to move on from Gio.  I think he still has miles, but he had such a poor year and playoffs, there is no coming back.  Moving him allows you to make business decisions and improve the team.  What I mean is he's the guy that the team is supposed to be following into war, and yet Tkachuk is the guy that drags you there.  It's been his team for too many years without success.  Time to make that change.  I would be seeking to move him to a team that lacks any cohesive leaders.  TO comes to mind.  Not that he makes them that much better, but they need something other than AM.  I think he might be able to resurrect his career a bit there.

 

Agree or disagree, it's time to make some changes.  Not for sake of change but to change some of the culture.  I know the players all care for each other and went through a lot, but sometimes you just have to lose a good player to move forward.

[sak22]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's not what I'm saying though.  I understand it's difficult to make trades because it takes two to tango.  In the case of the Brodie/Kadri trade, it took three.  Yet, Brodie and Jankowski are not core guys and that's what I meant.  Moving out peripheral pieces were easier.  Even Hamilton sounded like he wasn't liked in the dressing room so that was an easy one.  Brouwer and Raymond were not living up to their ends so they weren't extremely difficult jobs to do.

 

I'm just saying, Giordano, Gaudreau, Monahan, and even Tkachuk are at a different level.  I want to see he's heartless enough to do what's good for business and put aside personal relationships when it comes to his core players and his captains.  I don't want him to force a trade but if there's a good one, then he has to ask Giordano to waive his NTC.

Hey I was just throwing it to how you worded it.  You never mentioned anything about his "virtue signaling" to his core you alluded to it being making difficult decisions and he probably had better relationships with UFA's he signed and coaches he's hired than a core of players who were mostly here before he started, and I don't know what his personal relationships are with all those players, so I don't think that is stopping any movements as much as a thought of if it will help the team.  Gaudreau and Tkachuk we could probably move to most teams, Monahan would have a lot of takers, Gio maybe not as much given his age.  But for every good trade of stars there's probably 2 or 3 bad ones. 

 

Pittsburgh got lucky in the 2 years being able to get Malkin and Crosby, because they got absolutely nothing for Jagr and Kovalev in their sell off trades.  Perhaps in today's day and age instead of Malkin and Crosby they get Barker and Pouliot. Good chances they aren't even in Pittsburgh if that's the case, and that would boil down more to what they got in the trades.  I'm just saying be careful what you wish for, I'm down for a major change, but I think we have the pieces to do a retool instead of heading to the lottery and relying on that.  I just watched a series where probably the best player on the ice was a #3 pick who is hands down better than the #1 and #2 and worse than the #5 and debatable if he is as good as the #4.  

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

GM not the problem here

 

You told me this was something you would visit if they crashed and burned this year.   I think you still have, at least on this thread, the popular opinion although not by the same wide margin it was previously, and I'm not so sure it's the popular opinion with the overall fanbase now.

 

So keeping in mind we've agreed to revisit that topic, I do need to ask what Treliving has done so well?    I've asked this a few times and never really got any solid answers.

 

Can we look at that objectively, because from 2014 to 2020 I'm seeing a whole lot of nothing other than some really bad trades and giving up our future for things that he felt mattered at the time but...looking back, didn't.  Losing a first rounder and losing Hamilton and completely botching our goaltending (sorry this last one is particularly unpopular but the numbers don't lie)....come to mind.

 

Maybe part of the discrepancy here is that I see finishing high in the regular season only to look like a junior team in the playoffs, is pretty much the worst thing a GM can do (especially when you solidify it as a pattern over multiple seasons)

 

I feel like he's our Justin Trudeau of hockey.   Jim Treliving has a formidable bio.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You told me this was something you would visit if they crashed and burned this year.   I think you still have, at least on this thread, the popular opinion although not by the same wide margin it was previously, and I'm not so sure it's the popular opinion with the overall fanbase now.

 

So keeping in mind we've agreed to revisit that topic, I do need to ask what Treliving has done so well?    I've asked this a few times and never really got any solid answers.

 

Can we look at that objectively, because from 2014 to 2020 I'm seeing a whole lot of nothing other than some really bad trades and giving up our future for things that he felt mattered at the time but...looking back, didn't.  Losing a first rounder and losing Hamilton and completely botching our goaltending (sorry this last one is particularly unpopular but the numbers don't lie)....come to mind.

 

I feel like he's our Justin Trudeau of hockey.   Jim Treliving has a formidable bio.

 

Probably not ready for that quite yet.

The next 3 months would be telling, and I can probably safely predict BT will be here during that.

In general, we crashed and burned in one game.

That happens.

That's not the real story of the playoffs or season though.

Career years followed by a complete downturn top to bottom.

 

Drafting has been good except for the Smith and MacDonald picks in particular.

Ras and Dube.

Wolf.

Some yet to be determined, but I don't consider them bad drafting.

 

I would agree that I didn't like a lot of his trades or UFA work.

Lazar, Bolig, Brouwer, Hamonic (quality of picks given up), Neal.

Elliott, Smith, Forbort.

Not a lot to love there.

 

Overall, the body of work shows good and bad.  Nothing soul crushing.

Nothing over the top.

Maybe another GM does better, but there are so many worse ones I don't know where you get a better one.

Dubas?  Laughable.

JR?  Chokes.

 

Let's revisit after the FA day and trades are done.

May be too late, but it's hard to judge since we have not define the direction for next season.

Gaudreau, Gio, Bennett, Lucic, Hanifin, Monahan, Backlund, Ryan, Forbort, Gus, Brodie....

Should get a clearer picture after draft then afetr UFA day.

May eve see some trades this summer.

 

[rickross]

As embarrassing as last night loss was. It was necessary. This group of underachievers needs a change, without question. I’m in the group not pinning this all on our GM, however Gio needs to go and we should consider parting with either Monny of JH. We’ve spent a fortune on chasing an elite D corps...and we didn’t even get Hamonics services when we needed it most. Now here we are chewing out our teams defence. We have a good young D corps in place but new leadership is sorely needed. On that note we need a real coach, one who can be successful enough to stick around for more than 2 years. We lack stability on this team and it showed. 

[jjgallow]

55 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Probably not ready for that quite yet.

The next 3 months would be telling, and I can probably safely predict BT will be here during that.

In general, we crashed and burned in one game.

That happens.

That's not the real story of the playoffs or season though.

Career years followed by a complete downturn top to bottom.

 

Drafting has been good except for the Smith and MacDonald picks in particular.

Ras and Dube.

Wolf.

Some yet to be determined, but I don't consider them bad drafting.

 

I would agree that I didn't like a lot of his trades or UFA work.

Lazar, Bolig, Brouwer, Hamonic (quality of picks given up), Neal.

Elliott, Smith, Forbort.

Not a lot to love there.

 

Overall, the body of work shows good and bad.  Nothing soul crushing.

Nothing over the top.

Maybe another GM does better, but there are so many worse ones I don't know where you get a better one.

Dubas?  Laughable.

JR?  Chokes.

 

Let's revisit after the FA day and trades are done.

May be too late, but it's hard to judge since we have not define the direction for next season.

Gaudreau, Gio, Bennett, Lucic, Hanifin, Monahan, Backlund, Ryan, Forbort, Gus, Brodie....

Should get a clearer picture after draft then afetr UFA day.

May eve see some trades this summer.

 

 

3 months it is then...it's never too late.  I feel his drafting might be getting worse over time somehow, and I expect him to make some desperate moves.

 

But....from the perspective of someone who wants a rebuild...it's all the same.  Fire him, keep him and let him throw hail Mary's....

 

It's all the same and ensures top 10 picks in 2021+.   Unless he gives those up....hopefully higher up handcuffs him on that.