Blow It Up?

[tmac70]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gaudreau is not hoing to het you a top 3 player today.  He may get you a potential top 3 player.

Teams get impatient as do fanbases.

Interesting that Servali suggested that the team shouldn;t be trading Gaudreau but looking for the right compliment. 

I don't know if I agree, but it does make sense.

We have not ever been able to find the right player both rregular season and playoffs.

Ferland was the closest to that we had in years.

Lindy was that for regular season.

He's potentially a top 6 C that we use on the winh.

 

To me, it only makes sense to trade Gaudreau to fix problems not create more.

Trade Gaudreau and Backlund and impact the core.

Get back a top 9 C and a top 6 winger.

Impact the way the top 6 looks.

Sign Pietrangelo, 

This only happens because we are moving out 12m and taking back less than 8m.

Our D consists of Gio, Pietrangelo, Ras, Hanifin, Kylington, Valimaki, Mackey.

One approach.

I haven;t calculated exactly, but it does seem doable.

 

This is just directed at your post as more a comment on the context. We have a snow balls chance in hell of getting Pietrangelo, zero. 
 

Secondly, Servalli and Button both agree as do I trading Johnny right now is the incorrect move right now. Yes he may walk and we have limited choices in 2 years even if he has a 5 team list. Seriously what does anyone think we are getting for him that compares to what he brings now? Something has to change and I believe a Mony brings you back more than Johnny. Does it create a void sure, but his value as a centre is far better than JG. Now NYR are in  need of a 2nd line center, does a trade work with them for the 1st overall with an add on from us. Mony has a good contract with years left, but also getting the 1st overall brings us in a left winger with potential to replace Gaudreau in a year. Or the possibly he brings us back a top dman with an add. 
 

We need a stud dman, just look at Dallas, heskaian, klingburg, Hughes for Van, Makar for col, fox in NYR, we don’t have that. Goaltending is another issue, Talbot and Ritter are not the answer. For me I bring in Hall, if its on a doable contract, if you can for some miracle get NYR 1st overall than Hall is pointless to obtain. Let face it we are not one piece away we are multiple with far better coaching required to contend for anything.

[Horsman1]

23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would not trade both JH and Monahan.  We went too long without anything resembling a top C.  Yeah, Gaudreau may not be the best fit anymore, so that's where we need to start.  He used to be a game breaker, but has lost that.  I'm actually okay with trading him and signing Hall.  It doesn't make us better, but it at least gives us someone that could be looked to give more.  Johnny had a good game, but he can't defend at all.  He was on for too many goals against.  This wasn't a rare occasion either.  Hall may not be elite, but he is also a bit more even a player.  He has speed and does things.

 

I'm okay in trading Backlund if we have a potential top 6 C coming in via trade.  Not for Backlund obviously, but in another move.  That signals that we are going in a different direction, and will be prioritizing offense from the F and defense from the D.  Move Bennett to a full time role at C and get him decent wingers.  Tkachuk and Mangiapane or Lindholm.  Use him to his ability.  I know I had soured a bit on Sammy this season, but I think he might be on the brink of a breakout.  If you are trading Backlund, then Bennett takes some of the defensive responsibility, but it is shared from 1 to 3.  

 

Lastly, I think it is time to move on from Gio.  I think he still has miles, but he had such a poor year and playoffs, there is no coming back.  Moving him allows you to make business decisions and improve the team.  What I mean is he's the guy that the team is supposed to be following into war, and yet Tkachuk is the guy that drags you there.  It's been his team for too many years without success.  Time to make that change.  I would be seeking to move him to a team that lacks any cohesive leaders.  TO comes to mind.  Not that he makes them that much better, but they need something other than AM.  I think he might be able to resurrect his career a bit there.

 

Agree or disagree, it's time to make some changes.  Not for sake of change but to change some of the culture.  I know the players all care for each other and went through a lot, but sometimes you just have to lose a good player to move forward.

this team is a collection of guys that play hockey.. it needs to be reconstructed with players that play the right positions.. Tkachuck/ Gaudreau. Mangiapane.. Talk of Hall .. all leftwingers.. only room for two.. Seriously.. it's like asking a brain surgeon to start doing all his surgeries left handed when he's been right

 handed all his life

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

This is just directed at your post as more a comment on the context. We have a snow balls chance in hell of getting Pietrangelo, zero. 
 

Secondly, Servalli and Button both agree as do I trading Johnny right now is the incorrect move right now. Yes he may walk and we have limited choices in 2 years even if he has a 5 team list. Seriously what does anyone think we are getting for him that compares to what he brings now? Something has to change and I believe a Mony brings you back more than Johnny. Does it create a void sure, but his value as a centre is far better than JG. Now NYR are in  need of a 2nd line center, does a trade work with them for the 1st overall with an add on from us. Mony has a good contract with years left, but also getting the 1st overall brings us in a left winger with potential to replace Gaudreau in a year. Or the possibly he brings us back a top dman with an add. 
 

We need a stud dman, just look at Dallas, heskaian, klingburg, Hughes for Van, Makar for col, fox in NYR, we don’t have that. Goaltending is another issue, Talbot and Ritter are not the answer. For me I bring in Hall, if its on a doable contract, if you can for some miracle get NYR 1st overall than Hall is pointless to obtain. Let face it we are not one piece away we are multiple with far better coaching required to contend for anything.

 

He's from Ontario, so I would sugget we have a better chance of signing him than Buffalo.

Toronto?  No way can they even think abou that.  They are already about $50m over the cap.

STL is pooched unless they make big changes and TBH they probably want to move on.

I don't see CGY's chances any worse than most teams.

We lost in the same number of games as they did.

Do we have some things he would like?  A competetive team needing some direction.

I see it as a snowball's chance in Alberta in October.

 

Goaltending is an issue for more than 20 teams.

We aren't as bad off as a lot of teams that made the playoffs.

 

I don't know that JH has lost a lot of value.

You won't be able to trade him to a Cali team, but the East is wide open (not Florida teams).

NY, NJ, Philly, even PITTS and BOS.

What is he really worth?

At the very least a 1st a high end prospect and a NHL player.

Playoff results don't impact the player's value as much as it does to us.

You could argue that he was a victim of a poorly designed team.

I fall somewhere in the middle.

 

While it's possible to remake this team with him a part, the chances are remote.

Too many moves.

I don't know that the GM has enough vision to build it.

Most GM's would not.

So, his value is in the now in a trade.

 

[pikey7883]

I suggested this on cap friendly, and some panther fans thought it was an interesting idea. It’s a two part trade which I hate because you need them both for the idea to work, but I’m not the gm and I’m allowed to have ideas, lol.

 

Lindholm, Hannifin, 2020 1st

for 

Ekblad and Tippett

 

Backlund to either MTL or NYR as they would benefit greatly from a second line Center. 
trade with Montreal for right to Domi

trade with NYR for Georgiev 

 

I also think we should let go of the idea of Hall unless he wants to come home for less than $6, it’s the only way it makes sense. We should also get a new coach (Laviolette or Gerard), and move Johnny to the right side (same as Kane, Panarin, etc.... all off wingers).

 

To me it looks like this:

 

Tkachuk Benny Gaudreau

Hall Money Mang

Lucic Domi Dube

Pelletier Ryan Rieder

 

Valimaki Ekblad

Giordano Rassmusen

Kylington Cernak (offer sheet)

 

Talbot 

Rittich

 

 

 

[JTech780]

14 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I suggested this on cap friendly, and some panther fans thought it was an interesting idea. It’s a two part trade which I hate because you need them both for the idea to work, but I’m not the gm and I’m allowed to have ideas, lol.

 

Lindholm, Hannifin, 2020 1st

for 

Ekblad and Tippett

 

Backlund to either MTL or NYR as they would benefit greatly from a second line Center. 
trade with Montreal for right to Domi

trade with NYR for Georgiev 

 

I also think we should let go of the idea of Hall unless he wants to come home for less than $6, it’s the only way it makes sense. We should also get a new coach (Laviolette or Gerard), and move Johnny to the right side (same as Kane, Panarin, etc.... all off wingers).

 

To me it looks like this:

 

Tkachuk Benny Gaudreau

Hall Money Mang

Lucic Domi Dube

Pelletier Ryan Rieder

 

Valimaki Ekblad

Giordano Rassmusen

Kylington Cernak (offer sheet)

 

Talbot 

Rittich

 

 

 

 

That Florida trade is terrible for the Flames, best case scenario Tippet turns into a Lindholm, but that is unlikely as he isn't great defensively at all. The difference between Hanifin and Ekblad is minimal IMO and not enough for us to include a 1st.

 

[JTech780]

IMO this team is a piece or two away from being a Cup contender, the problem is that those pieces are an elite number center and an elite number 1 defenseman. Do that's to say this team isn't close at all.

 

It makes little sense to me to try and trade Gaudreau and/or Monahan for pieces to help next season, because we aren't going to get that elite number 1 center/defenseman.

 

I think we need to trade those pieces and look for draft picks and prospects. I am tired of staying in the middle of the league, I would rather be bad and building towards being great than just being good, but never good enough.

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

IMO this team is a piece or two away from being a Cup contender, the problem is that those pieces are an elite number center and an elite number 1 defenseman. Do that's to say this team isn't close at all.

 

It makes little sense to me to try and trade Gaudreau and/or Monahan for pieces to help next season, because we aren't going to get that elite number 1 center/defenseman.

 

I think we need to trade those pieces and look for draft picks and prospects. I am tired of staying in the middle of the league, I would rather be bad and building towards being great than just being good, but never good enough.

 

If we were to trade Gaudreau for your most suggested player in Necas, would that get us closer?

I think we should be exploring trading Backlund as he is a great #2 but we could have that in Necas.

Allows Bennett to be a shutdown C on the 3rd line.

Moving out Backlund and Gaudreau would allow us some shopping money for Pietrangelo.

Thoughts?

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we were to trade Gaudreau for your most suggested player in Necas, would that get us closer?

I think we should be exploring trading Backlund as he is a great #2 but we could have that in Necas.

Allows Bennett to be a shutdown C on the 3rd line.

Moving out Backlund and Gaudreau would allow us some shopping money for Pietrangelo.

Thoughts?

 

I really like Necas, but I can't say that he is a future number 1 center, I would say that he probably isn't a number 1 center. For me it's all about building towards being a contender.

 

As far as Pietrangelo goes, I wouldn't spend the money on him as he alone wouldn't make us a contender, and by the time we do find the right mix he will have aged out as being a number one defenseman.

 

I wouldn't look to spend much if any in UFA this year, I just don't see the point.

 

Where I am at is that this team needs a tear down. I am even at the point where I am on the fence about moving Tkachuk, as I am not sure he will love staying through a rebuild and will move out the first chance he gets.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I really like Necas, but I can't say that he is a future number 1 center, I would say that he probably isn't a number 1 center. For me it's all about building towards being a contender.

 

As far as Pietrangelo goes, I wouldn't spend the money on him as he alone wouldn't make us a contender, and by the time we do find the right mix he will have aged out as being a number one defenseman.

 

I wouldn't look to spend much if any in UFA this year, I just don't see the point.

 

Where I am at is that this team needs a tear down. I am even at the point where I am on the fence about moving Tkachuk, as I am not sure he will love staying through a rebuild and will move out the first chance he gets.

 

If NJ would take Gaudreau for wither Hischier or Hughes, that would be my preference.

I don't see a stud D available without overpaying.

Maybe what we need to think about is a more solid RD than elite.

Montour comes to mind.

Maybe Backlund for Montour does it.

 

As I mentioned, I don't have an issue with Backlund, but he's had two playoffs where he's been less than regular season good.

He's aging out of the core.

Hischier or Highes could be that elusive #1 or 1b C we need.

The age is right for a long term.

Both are compeitive which makes up for lack of size.

 

Hall seems to be the popular discussion.

Which is fine, but not better than Gaudreau just different.

  

Perhaps I am smoking something with regards to NJ, but we just don't know their priorities.

He's a complimentary player they do not have.

He would fill seats.

Perhaps does as much as what Hall did for them in injury plagued season.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

I don't think the Flames need to go scorched earth like Ottawa did, but they do need a retool.

 

PHI in 2011, BOS in 2015 and NYR in 2018 are all teams who have retooled on the fly with success. Flyers made the playoffs immediately, too BOS 1 season and NYR is poised to be a playoff team by 2021. 

 

It can be done with some smart trades and maybe even a little lotto luck like NYR has had. 

 

The Flames have some really good pieces to build around, the mix they have just isn't quite right. I'd say the team is bent, but not broken

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

The Flames have some really good pieces to build around, the mix they have just isn't quite right. I'd say the team is bent, but not broken

 

I don't know man.  I agree we have good pieces but when what's missing are a #1 Center, #1 Goaltender, and RHS everything... Those are the hardest to get.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't know man.  I agree we have good pieces but when what's missing are a #1 Center, #1 Goaltender, and RHS everything... Those are the hardest to get.

If the Flames are willing they can get themselves a #1 goalie this offseason. There’s also a chance that Dustin Wolf pans out. That’s one big hole taken care of.

 

I would argue that Vegas doesn’t have a #1 centre and they are every bit of a cup contender. That’s because they have the right mix. All 12 forwards play it the right way and come at the opponent in waves. When you have that kind of structure you can get away with it. 
 

 

[jjgallow]

We should have traded Gaidreau 1-2 years ago when he peaked, and it was quite frankly really obvious.

 

Of course the majority of fans were dead against it because of emotional attachment.   Never saw an argument that made sense.

 

So we keep him,  of course.   Past his prime and we PROVE to the world that his playoff performance is beyond redemption.     Now he's worth pennies on the dollar great work.

 

So these same fans will say "we'll never get a fair return" and it's like look if the playoffs matter to you at all, yes you will.     We can get a return which will either improve our current playoff chances or a young prospect with all the promise of Gaudreau.  And risk of course. 

 

Same people are like "we got screwed on the Iginla trade" and then conclude that we never should have traded him.

 

We had to trade Iginla,  we have to trade Gaudreau, we can't get better if we don't.     The more we drag our heals the more it will be awful.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

We should have traded Gaidreau 1-2 years ago when he peaked, and it was quite frankly really obvious.

 

Of course the majority of fans were dead against it because of emotional attachment.   Never saw an argument that made sense.

 

So we keep him,  of course.   Past his prime and we PROVE to the world that his playoff performance is beyond redemption.     Now he's worth pennies on the dollar great work.

 

So these same fans will say "we'll never get a fair return" and it's like look if the playoffs matter to you at all, yes you will.     We can get a return which will either improve our current playoff chances or a young prospect with all the promise of Gaudreau.  And risk of course. 

 

Same people are like "we got screwed on the Iginla trade" and then conclude that we never should have traded him.

 

We had to trade Iginla,  we have to trade Gaudreau, we can't get better if we don't.     The more we drag our heals the more it will be awful.

 

Was it painfully obvious after last season we needed to trade Guadreau?

A terrible playoffs where nobody played well.

In hindsight, we had an elite top line able to score a lot of goals.

Would we have gotten a ton more then?

Depends on the market.

 

As far as goaltenders, I would suggest there are less than 3 bona fide ones even playing.

None are capable of playing 60+ games.

 

I think most of the fans understand the risks of keeping JH.

They are too high for a team wanting to move forward.

We need a couple of top 6 C's to be a contender.

And we need that top defender.

Whether that pushes Gio down or necessitates a trade.

 

 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

IMO this team is a piece or two away from being a Cup contender, the problem is that those pieces are an elite number center and an elite number 1 defenseman. Do that's to say this team isn't close at all.

 

It makes little sense to me to try and trade Gaudreau and/or Monahan for pieces to help next season, because we aren't going to get that elite number 1 center/defenseman.

 

I think we need to trade those pieces and look for draft picks and prospects. I am tired of staying in the middle of the league, I would rather be bad and building towards being great than just being good, but never good enough.

 

I agree! 
 

and I wish players like Fox would have stayed in Calgary. It’s too bad players are allowed to not sign with the teams that draft them. What’s the point of a draft or being in a draft in that case?

 

But I agree. We need those high end finishes in order to be upper. 
 

we gave up a lot for Hamonic, a lot for Hamilton, a lot for goaltending for so many years. 
 

I see it being a bit in line with Peeps and JJ, needing to re-stock/rebuild. The cupboards are a little bare for my liking. 
 

so can we trade off Johnny and Monahan for a few high picks? I’d test that option. 
 

maybe Monahan to Ottawa for one of their picks. We really need the #1c, or get into the top 5-6 picks From a team.

 

trade Johnny to Jersey for one Or both of their high picks and possibly a future pick.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't think the Flames need to go scorched earth like Ottawa did, but they do need a retool.

 

PHI in 2011, BOS in 2015 and NYR in 2018 are all teams who have retooled on the fly with success. Flyers made the playoffs immediately, too BOS 1 season and NYR is poised to be a playoff team by 2021. 

 

It can be done with some smart trades and maybe even a little lotto luck like NYR has had. 

 

The Flames have some really good pieces to build around, the mix they have just isn't quite right. I'd say the team is bent, but not broken

 

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't know man.  I agree we have good pieces but when what's missing are a #1 Center, #1 Goaltender, and RHS everything... Those are the hardest to get.

 

I think both are true. I am with Jtech as well, being afraid of BTs vision or lack of one. He has been good at drafting but so far lacking in building a team or vision or culture within it. I am not saying he’s a bad GM, as he’s found good players in the draft, NHLers, more than in years past. He’s done some decent Contracts and has been around 35/65 on UFA signings and About 50/50 on trades. 
 

I feel like we are trending to Iginla days. Filling holes without a vision or the ability to fill them with high end players. 
 

I think cohesion is missing. Then there’s #1C/D/RW/G, #2C, 3rd/4th line players that fill the job descriptions. I don’t think those are as easy as it sounds. If they are why haven’t we found them? 
 

we didn’t sign another Hathaway out of college. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If the Flames are willing they can get themselves a #1 goalie this offseason. There’s also a chance that Dustin Wolf pans out. That’s one big hole taken care of.

 

I would argue that Vegas doesn’t have a #1 centre and they are every bit of a cup contender. That’s because they have the right mix. All 12 forwards play it the right way and come at the opponent in waves. When you have that kind of structure you can get away with it. 
 

 

 

i w we ours take 3 Backlund’s on a team if the wingers are the right mix as well. Backs is amazing at pushing the play up ice. I’d wish for one being a bit bigger though 🤪

[jjgallow]

Replying to both @travel_dude and @robrob74, yeah I admit it really doesn't matter that much how obvious it was 2 years ago anyway.    I just get frustrated when people still want to keep him and they will hold onto that belief until he literally has no trade value and then when they trade him they're like "worst trade ever" lol.  Not acknowledging that their collective opinion and the collective resulting merchandise surplus is the driver behind that bad trade.   Like what we saw with Iggie.

 

With regards to Adam Fox that was just an incredibly incompetent trade.   Period.   @travel_dude and while people's opinions on Gaudreau 2 years ago may not matter much now, that Adam Fox trade Does matter, we literally gave them an entire first line of world-beating D for the next decade and we got next to nothing in return, and... the GM who orchestrated this is Still screwing things up now.    Yes, yes this trade Was obvious and it would have been a bad trade even if Adam Fox didn't become elite.  Even if he didn't make the NHL.

 

People do not realise the extent of awefulness of that trade, and how clear it was from the moment it was announced.  I was horrified from the get go and so were others.   The GM had NO sense of the valuation.  Zero.    I don't care if Fox was going to sign or not that was a mortifying trade, was called out as such at that time.   I've been asking for BT to leave ever since.    That trade is more than enough to end any GM, and we have a list of offenses.

 

There isn't even a point to rebuilding with someone that clueless at the helm.  He has zero chance of executing it well.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

We should have traded Gaidreau 1-2 years ago when he peaked, and it was quite frankly really obvious.

 

Of course the majority of fans were dead against it because of emotional attachment.   Never saw an argument that made sense.

 

So we keep him,  of course.   Past his prime and we PROVE to the world that his playoff performance is beyond redemption.     Now he's worth pennies on the dollar great work.

 

So these same fans will say "we'll never get a fair return" and it's like look if the playoffs matter to you at all, yes you will.     We can get a return which will either improve our current playoff chances or a young prospect with all the promise of Gaudreau.  And risk of course. 

 

Same people are like "we got screwed on the Iginla trade" and then conclude that we never should have traded him.

 

We had to trade Iginla,  we have to trade Gaudreau, we can't get better if we don't.     The more we drag our heals the more it will be awful.

I think that for me, he’s not done. He’s done with playing in Calgary. Something has changed in him. I just don’t think a player scoring the way he was prior to all star break to just stop moving his feet the way he has. And he has looked disinterested since.

 

but maybe you’re right, the value would still have been higher 2 years ago. Last summer even, coming off of the 99.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Replying to both @travel_dude and @robrob74, yeah I admit it really doesn't matter that much how obvious it was 2 years ago anyway.    I just get frustrated when people still want to keep him and they will hold onto that belief until he literally has no trade value and then when they trade him they're like "worst trade ever" lol.  Not acknowledging that their collective opinion and the collective resulting merchandise surplus is the driver behind that bad trade.   Like what we saw with Iggie.

 

With regards to Adam Fox that was just an incredibly incompetent trade.   Period.   @travel_dude and while people's opinions on Gaudreau 2 years ago may not matter much now, that Adam Fox trade Does matter, we literally gave them an entire first line of world-beating D for the next decade and we got next to nothing in return, and... the GM who orchestrated this is Still screwing things up now.    Yes, yes this trade Was obvious and it would have been a bad trade even if Adam Fox didn't become elite.  Even if he didn't make the NHL.

 

 

 

i agree! 
 

that Fox trade NEEDED to be a trade on its own. If that Blockchains the deal up then trade Hamilton to another team and get the value for a #1RHS D! 
 

Ferland had value, it’s on them the re-sign him. Their fault for not being able to. 
 

Lindholm is a good all-round player but not elite, but still much needed here. Hanifin sucks.

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i agree! 
 

that Fox trade NEEDED to be a trade on its own. If that Blockchains the deal up then trade Hamilton to another team and get the value for a #1RHS D! 
 

Ferland had value, it’s on them the re-sign him. Their fault for not being able to. 
 

Lindholm is a good all-round player but not elite, but still much needed here. Hanifin sucks.

 

If the trade was just Hammy for Lindholm, that may have worked, but what would we have in place for top 4.

Many would be screaming louder for that particular trade.

Perhaps people can move on from a situation that never played out.

Whether we would be able to sign him is super important to the discussion.

Would we have gotten the return CAR got is unknown.

 

Hanifin is not as bad as you suggest.

He's got some growing to do, but a season and a half of BP, plus playing with Hammer was not a good place to be.

 

Blow it up is all or nothing.

The wreckage afterwards can be difficult ot fix.

Nothing is closer to the real situations with most clubs face and shoud do.

JH needs to go to improve the overall top 6.

We won't go anywhere with him on the wing.

Backlund has as much to do with the lack of success as he does.

A number 2 that doesn't score and doesn't prevent in 6 playoff games and 4 playin games.

Last year no different.

He's no ROR.

He's a valuable player to a team that doesn't have a quality #3 and no real #1.

 

Those two moves alone would help fix the top 6.

Moving Bennett up adds to it.

Lucic is a playoff weapon, but you don't need him playing 15 minutes a night regular season.

Sign Hall as he adds an element we don't have on LW.

A guy that can skate.

 

Whoever we go after for a D-man, it needs to be a puck mover and a solid defensive player.

Should be a 3 or better and a RHS.

Montour or Vatanen (UFA).

 

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If the trade was just Hammy for Lindholm, that may have worked, but what would we have in place for top 4.

Many would be screaming louder for that particular trade.

Perhaps people can move on from a situation that never played out.

Whether we would be able to sign him is super important to the discussion.

Would we have gotten the return CAR got is unknown.

 

Hanifin is not as bad as you suggest.

He's got some growing to do, but a season and a half of BP, plus playing with Hammer was not a good place to be.

 

Blow it up is all or nothing.

The wreckage afterwards can be difficult ot fix.

Nothing is closer to the real situations with most clubs face and shoud do.

JH needs to go to improve the overall top 6.

We won't go anywhere with him on the wing.

Backlund has as much to do with the lack of success as he does.

A number 2 that doesn't score and doesn't prevent in 6 playoff games and 4 playin games.

Last year no different.

He's no ROR.

He's a valuable player to a team that doesn't have a quality #3 and no real #1.

 

Those two moves alone would help fix the top 6.

Moving Bennett up adds to it.

Lucic is a playoff weapon, but you don't need him playing 15 minutes a night regular season.

Sign Hall as he adds an element we don't have on LW.

A guy that can skate.

 

Whoever we go after for a D-man, it needs to be a puck mover and a solid defensive player.

Should be a 3 or better and a RHS.

Montour or Vatanen (UFA).

 

 

No!

 

Lindholm does not equal Hamilton! Especially the talk of the player Lindholm was in Carolina. He was a middle six player and Hanifin was a bottom 6D maybe a #4 and was his top possibility. 
 

so there now you have Hamilton and Ferland for the two. I still didn’t see it as an even trade. 
 

Lindholm hasn’t worked on the top line for well over a year now, well, since the all star break of last season.

 

and I don’t agree On Backlund. Had the top line performed for the two playoffs it’s possibly a different story. Without Tkachuk, Mangiapane could only do so much and the line started going when Lindholm got on it. 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I think both are true. I am with Jtech as well, being afraid of BTs vision or lack of one. He has been good at drafting but so far lacking in building a team or vision or culture within it. I am not saying he’s a bad GM, as he’s found good players in the draft, NHLers, more than in years past. He’s done some decent Contracts and has been around 35/65 on UFA signings and About 50/50 on trades. 
 

I feel like we are trending to Iginla days. Filling holes without a vision or the ability to fill them with high end players. 
 

I think cohesion is missing. Then there’s #1C/D/RW/G, #2C, 3rd/4th line players that fill the job descriptions. I don’t think those are as easy as it sounds. If they are why haven’t we found them? 
 

we didn’t sign another Hathaway out of college. 

 

I have no issue with Treliving. Has he made some mistakes, sure, but pretty much every GM in the league has, even the Cup winning ones.

 

I do believe that he had to give this core every opportunity, and be patient with this core. That being said the time for being patient is over.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I have no issue with Treliving. Has he made some mistakes, sure, but pretty much every GM in the league has, even the Cup winning ones.

 

I do believe that he had to give this core every opportunity, and be patient with this core. That being said the time for being patient is over.

 

what I really didn’t like are the few shortcuts he made. I think it killed the cupboards and we have an average team due to it, and even more average in the future. 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

No!

 

Lindholm does not equal Hamilton! Especially the talk of the player Lindholm was in Carolina. He was a middle six player and Hanifin was a bottom 6D maybe a #4 and was his top possibility. 
 

so there now you have Hamilton and Ferland for the two. I still didn’t see it as an even trade. 
 

Lindholm hasn’t worked on the top line for well over a year now, well, since the all star break of last season.

 

Lindholm and Hanifin were both young top 5 picks and carried lots of value. Hamilton IMO is one of the most overrated players in the league. He is a good offensive defenseman, but he doesn't do anything defensively IMO. Ferland was a pending UFA so he didn't carry much value at all. 

 

Lindholm has become a top line winger and Hanifin is a solid top 4 defenseman with top pairing ability. 

 

I think we came out of this trade as clear winners, especially two years out and Carolina will probably have none of the players left from that trade.