Goaltending

[conundrumed]

Not sure why Vladar isn't in tonight, but yeah. I hate this coaching. Not digging Sutter at all.

Smells like arrogance.

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

Not sure why Vladar isn't in tonight, but yeah. I hate this coaching. Not digging Sutter at all.

Smells like arrogance.

 

When the team was struggling to score, the press kept asking about the players.

And Phillips.

And goaltending.

And the D.

And lines and player status.

 

Syiiter started getting bothered about this and got a little ignorant about it.

All valid questions even if the dick was asking some of it.

All guys like Francis do is regurgitate what the analysts say.

Sutter either doesn't see it or hates being reminded of it.

 

Play the hot hand sure, but stop waiting for a guy to go cold to put him in.

Then you have two cold ones.

That's only good at the bar.

Or on a couch.

[jjgallow]

 

https://theahl.com/askarov-ahl-player-week

 

It's happening.

[Heartbreaker]

44 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

https://theahl.com/askarov-ahl-player-week

 

It's happening.

 

What would we do with a player of the week?

 

My hypothesis is that we'd call him up, and sit him.

 

Love.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

What would we do with a player of the week?

 

My hypothesis is that we'd call him up, and sit him.

 

Love.

We do that a lot. Good experience practicing and watching from the real pros. In basketball, I sat a bench once, was told I'd get a lot of experience. Best seat in the house to watch our team lose... 🤣 

 

I was 13 or 14 playing in an All-Native  Basketball Tournament in Prince Rupert... playing might have let me know how I stood up to guys up to a few years older... 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

We do that a lot. Good experience practicing and watching from the real pros. In basketball, I sat a bench once, was told I'd get a lot of experience. Best seat in the house to watch our team lose... 🤣 

 

I was 13 or 14 playing in an All-Native  Basketball Tournament in Prince Rupert... playing might have let me know how I stood up to guys up to a few years older... 

 

It's frustrating for everyone.

The players know what he is and what he can do.

Bubba did everything asked of him in the AHL.

Zohorna has never been a really viable NHL option.

But he got games because he is big.

ANd what he did in the NHL was the measuring stick for Phillips.

Didn't score 5 goals, so Phillips won't be able to score any.

Not that that is a real measuring stick.

Two different players.

If it was Zary, he would eat popcorn.

If it was Pelletier, he would eat popcorn.

 

So, the logic is that Lucic was a scratch, so he comes in and plays 12-15 minutes.

Instead of using the time to play a top 6 player, we use a 4th liner there.

 

Wolf was the top goalie last season.

He's up near the top with 3 SO already.

He's not getting a sniff while we have two healthy goalies.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

What would we do with a player of the week?

 

My hypothesis is that we'd call him up, and sit him.

 

Love.

 

Lol, I'm not sure.  We should ask Wolf, he's won it quite a few times now.  I'm sure he's pleased with the process

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's frustrating for everyone.

The players know what he is and what he can do.

Bubba did everything asked of him in the AHL.

Zohorna has never been a really viable NHL option.

But he got games because he is big.

ANd what he did in the NHL was the measuring stick for Phillips.

Didn't score 5 goals, so Phillips won't be able to score any.

Not that that is a real measuring stick.

Two different players.

If it was Zary, he would eat popcorn.

If it was Pelletier, he would eat popcorn.

 

So, the logic is that Lucic was a scratch, so he comes in and plays 12-15 minutes.

Instead of using the time to play a top 6 player, we use a 4th liner there.

 

Wolf was the top goalie last season.

He's up near the top with 3 SO already.

He's not getting a sniff while we have two healthy goalies.

 Yup

[sak22]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

We do that a lot. Good experience practicing and watching from the real pros. In basketball, I sat a bench once, was told I'd get a lot of experience. Best seat in the house to watch our team lose... 🤣 

 

I was 13 or 14 playing in an All-Native  Basketball Tournament in Prince Rupert... playing might have let me know how I stood up to guys up to a few years older... 

When all you do at 13 or 14 is sit its basically the way of saying this sport is not for you.  I sat for basically 2 years in high school football and thats the natural progression in that sport.  I just find it funny in a sport like football not playing comes natural and it usually starts in college.  Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years in the NFL and is one of the best ever, meanwhile Zach Wilson the #2 from last year continue to Satoshi Nakamoto the bed for the Jets and nobody in the football world is saying "well its good for his development".  Personally I don't think sitting in hockey is a killer that people say it is, I think the biggest hit is to the players ego because they are always used to having somewhere to go, if your not good enough for the NHL you have the AHL, if your not good enough for that you have the ECHL.  The only sport IMO that you can't develop as a young player without playing is baseball because its the only sport that lacks true practice.  We should never forget that this franchise might not exist if it weren't for a guy who wasn't even dressing as a backup for 2 months in San Jose.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

When all you do at 13 or 14 is sit its basically the way of saying this sport is not for you.  I sat for basically 2 years in high school football and thats the natural progression in that sport.  I just find it funny in a sport like football not playing comes natural and it usually starts in college.  Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years in the NFL and is one of the best ever, meanwhile Zach Wilson the #2 from last year continue to Satoshi Nakamoto the bed for the Jets and nobody in the football world is saying "well its good for his development".  Personally I don't think sitting in hockey is a killer that people say it is, I think the biggest hit is to the players ego because they are always used to having somewhere to go, if your not good enough for the NHL you have the AHL, if your not good enough for that you have the ECHL.  The only sport IMO that you can't develop as a young player without playing is baseball because its the only sport that lacks true practice.  We should never forget that this franchise might not exist if it weren't for a guy who wasn't even dressing as a backup for 2 months in San Jose.

 

you mean Kipper? I know what you mean. 

But i saw him play in a 5-2 loss vs the Canucks when he was with the sharks. Sat behind him for two periods and I turned to my dad close to the end of the game and said wow, I wish the flames had this guy, even in a 5-2 loss. He looked really good, position and athleticism... saw it then. 
 

but it made me look and saw they ended up with Vlasic out of the deal. Not that the flames would have drafted Vlasic with the pick, but they got a good return after all for him.

 

i don't mind the sitting, I think it would be good to play, and it's more th at they're not seemingly willing to try him with better players when the chemistry has been a bit lacklustre so far this year. I thought he didn't look worse than the others in the games he played, he just didn't have the experience that Sutter prefers to give lenience to keep playing. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

When all you do at 13 or 14 is sit its basically the way of saying this sport is not for you.  I sat for basically 2 years in high school football and thats the natural progression in that sport.  I just find it funny in a sport like football not playing comes natural and it usually starts in college.  Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years in the NFL and is one of the best ever, meanwhile Zach Wilson the #2 from last year continue to Satoshi Nakamoto the bed for the Jets and nobody in the football world is saying "well its good for his development".  Personally I don't think sitting in hockey is a killer that people say it is, I think the biggest hit is to the players ego because they are always used to having somewhere to go, if your not good enough for the NHL you have the AHL, if your not good enough for that you have the ECHL.  The only sport IMO that you can't develop as a young player without playing is baseball because its the only sport that lacks true practice.  We should never forget that this franchise might not exist if it weren't for a guy who wasn't even dressing as a backup for 2 months in San Jose.

 

I can only interpret this as you suggesting we trade Wolf while he still has value.    That's what San Jose did, it saved Kipper's career and they got a good return.    Actually giving Wolf a chance would be far preferable imho.

 

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I can only interpret this as you suggesting we trade Wolf while he still has value.    That's what San Jose did, it saved Kipper's career and they got a good return.    Actually giving Wolf a chance would be far preferable imho.

 

I've long given up on trying to figure out why you think the way you do.  But I don't know how you came to that conclusion because I mentioned that a 26 year old goalie who was the odd man out who would've required waivers is the same situation as a 21 year old on year 2 of his ELC.  One guy was eating popcorn on a nightly basis, one is still playing daily.  I have no problem with where Wolf is at I see no reason he should be up right now unless there is an injury.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

I've long given up on trying to figure out why you think the way you do.  But I don't know how you came to that conclusion because I mentioned that a 26 year old goalie who was the odd man out who would've required waivers is the same situation as a 21 year old on year 2 of his ELC.  One guy was eating popcorn on a nightly basis, one is still playing daily.  I have no problem with where Wolf is at I see no reason he should be up right now unless there is an injury.

 

I'm actually eating popcorn right now

[conundrumed]

Sergeev, holy moly freshman guy from the NAHL's legendary Shreveport Mudbugs.

How fun would it be if, in 4 years, we had 2 - 7th rd pick goalies?

 

NHL

Markstrom: 11-9-4; 2.81gaa; .894sv%

Vladar: 6-4-3; 2.83gaa; .905sv%

AHL

Wolf: 17-4-3; 2.24gaa; .927sv% 3SO

ECHL

Daniil Chechelev 13-8-0; 3.18gaa; .905sv%

NCAA

Sergeev: 7-2-1; 2.41gaa; .923sv%

[conundrumed]

It's too bad Sergeev is the backup, but he's a freshman on the 10th ranked NCAA team. So not like he's sheltered by a Michigan or a Minnesota team (Minny-best hockey state in the US).

From the USHL last year to UConn this year, what an incredible pick by the Flames.

7th rders are typically throwaways. We have 2 significant G prospects from there. Without question our best 2.

I guess this is why we stopped taking goalies in early rounds.lol

Not yet proven successful, but the trend is great.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sergeev, holy moly freshman guy from the NAHL's legendary Shreveport Mudbugs.

How fun would it be if, in 4 years, we had 2 - 7th rd pick goalies?

 

NHL

Markstrom: 11-9-4; 2.81gaa; .894sv%

Vladar: 6-4-3; 2.83gaa; .905sv%

AHL

Wolf: 17-4-3; 2.24gaa; .927sv% 3SO

ECHL

Daniil Chechelev 13-8-0; 3.18gaa; .905sv%

NCAA

Sergeev: 7-2-1; 2.41gaa; .923sv%

 

 

That's the model that's always made sense to me, every 1-2 drafts target a goalie late and stock pile them. Nice to see the Flames maybe starting to have some success with that method. 

 

Would be nice to see Chechelev get some AHL games. ECHL stats are so hard to get a read on that it would be nice to see what he can do at a higher level. Think you need to start testing a 22 year old prospect more than the ECHL. 

[robrob74]

They talked about Sigalet being a goalie guru, but maybe he's a goalie scout guru? Wasn't him who wanted Vladar? Hopefully we found a goalie scout.

[cross16]

I don't think i would toss out "guru" when it comes to goaltender evaluation. It's such a volatile position and there really isn't anyone in the league that has figured it out. The closet your going to get is the Ducks and really their model has just been to draft a lot of them. 

 

It's been reported that Sigalet led the charge to acquire Vladar and part of the reason the Flames wanted to establish a separate goalie team was to allow for more scouting/developing etc. So I would imagine it helps in their draft process but we'll see how it turns out. 

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sergeev, holy moly freshman guy from the NAHL's legendary Shreveport Mudbugs.

How fun would it be if, in 4 years, we had 2 - 7th rd pick goalies?

 

NHL

Markstrom: 11-9-4; 2.81gaa; .894sv%

Vladar: 6-4-3; 2.83gaa; .905sv%

AHL

Wolf: 17-4-3; 2.24gaa; .927sv% 3SO

ECHL

Daniil Chechelev 13-8-0; 3.18gaa; .905sv%

NCAA

Sergeev: 7-2-1; 2.41gaa; .923sv%

 

They have done well.   I'd still like to see a couple more.   

 

Wolf is going to hit 30 before Sutter lets him play,

Chechelev is borderline

Sergeev looks good.   But again limited games for now.

 

I'm okay with the 7th round picks, also potentially free agent signings.

 

After world juniors I'm kind of wondering who's going to scoop up Lampinen, for instance.   PTO, or whatever other means.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

They have done well.   I'd still like to see a couple more.   

 

Wolf is going to hit 30 before Sutter lets him play,

Chechelev is borderline

Sergeev looks good.   But again limited games for now.

 

I'm okay with the 7th round picks, also potentially free agent signings.

 

After world juniors I'm kind of wondering who's going to scoop up Lampinen, for instance.   PTO, or whatever other means.

 

Poor Wolf.  Already 21.

Hard to say when.

Unlike some teams we have a bonifide starter and a younger goalie with a small body of work.

Results from the playoff 2nd round aside, we had some of the best galtending in the league last season.

Opposite this year where the tending had worse results to date.

Mostly SO and lower SA% and higher GAA.

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don't think i would toss out "guru" when it comes to goaltender evaluation. It's such a volatile position and there really isn't anyone in the league that has figured it out. The closet your going to get is the Ducks and really their model has just been to draft a lot of them. 

 

It's been reported that Sigalet led the charge to acquire Vladar and part of the reason the Flames wanted to establish a separate goalie team was to allow for more scouting/developing etc. So I would imagine it helps in their draft process but we'll see how it turns out. 

I'm just saying what I heard said on the Fan and some have posted in here, about guru. Lol. I've not liked him as a goalie coach, but so far as a scout he's looking pretty good. 

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Poor Wolf.  Already 21.

Hard to say when.

Unlike some teams we have a bonifide starter and a younger goalie with a small body of work.

Results from the playoff 2nd round aside, we had some of the best galtending in the league last season.

Opposite this year where the tending had worse results to date.

Mostly SO and lower SA% and higher GAA.

my worry now is that the goaltending seems to be bad one year, good another and bad another. It's a team sport, but Markstrom's save percentage was .904 and then .922 and now .894. I don't know what stats make more sense at how a goalie is playing year in and out...

 

he was a 2.68, 2.22, and now 2.81.

 

in Vancouver he averaged 2.70+/-....

 

is he a good goalie or average plus and slightly over paid?

 

what I am getting at is it seems that goaltending is down a year and up a year, then down the next. Maybe it's just the position or a signifier of how the team plays in front of them. 

[flames for life]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Poor Wolf.  Already 21.

Hard to say when.

Unlike some teams we have a bonifide starter and a younger goalie with a small body of work.

Results from the playoff 2nd round aside, we had some of the best galtending in the league last season.

Opposite this year where the tending had worse results to date.

Mostly SO and lower SA% and higher GAA.

But some have said that goalies start older because they take longer to develop.  So isn’t Wolf’s success a positive at such a young age?

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, flames for life said:

But some have said that goalies start older because they take longer to develop.  So isn’t Wolf’s success a positive at such a young age?

 

@travel_dude is using sarcasm here.   

 

We've been at this since Ortio was 21.  And before that.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

@travel_dude is using sarcasm here.   

 

We've been at this since Ortio was 21.  And before that.

 

I'm just saying.  We were in a cycle of retread goalies at the time of Ortio.

Even so, Ortio wasn't good enough.

Skinner, by comparison is 10x better.  

He's doing well on a team that can't protect a goalie.

 

Wolf is a young guy with 1 year of pro.

Murray was in his 3rd year of AHL before he got the call.

Binnington was in what, his 4th year?

Just two guys that won the cup.

Vasilevskiy had a couple of KHL season and an AHL season.

 

Marky isn't exactly sucking.

Maybe less than we expected after last season's results.

But, the signs are he's getting better not worse.