Goaltending

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying.  We were in a cycle of retread goalies at the time of Ortio.

Even so, Ortio wasn't good enough.

Skinner, by comparison is 10x better.  

He's doing well on a team that can't protect a goalie.

 

Wolf is a young guy with 1 year of pro.

Murray was in his 3rd year of AHL before he got the call.

Binnington was in what, his 4th year?

Just two guys that won the cup.

Vasilevskiy had a couple of KHL season and an AHL season.

 

Marky isn't exactly sucking.

Maybe less than we expected after last season's results.

But, the signs are he's getting better not worse.

 

Wolf is same age/experience Murray/Vas was right now, and Murray was called up mid-season.   

 

So I'm complaining perhaps a few games early but we have a history here too of overplaying the starter etc.

 

Now, to be fair, Murray was, well noticeably better at the same age, and, 6'5.

 

Point is I don't think it would harm Wolf any to get some games in, and who knows maybe he translates way better than we expect.

[CheersMan]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

my worry now is that the goaltending seems to be bad one year, good another and bad another. It's a team sport, but Markstrom's save percentage was .904 and then .922 and now .894. I don't know what stats make more sense at how a goalie is playing year in and out...

 

he was a 2.68, 2.22, and now 2.81.

 

in Vancouver he averaged 2.70+/-....

 

is he a good goalie or average plus and slightly over paid?

 

what I am getting at is it seems that goaltending is down a year and up a year, then down the next. Maybe it's just the position or a signifier of how the team plays in front of them. 

Marky has has some bad outings this season, but he looks to be improving steadily to where he was last year. GA is a function of team play as we know, the team has not always been there in front of him every game this season. I feel confident in either goalie right now, what more can we ask. I think we are looking real good in net right now.

[CheersMan]

4 minutes ago, GeraldWem said:

прически летние 2011 картинки. Быстрый кредит вебмани [url=https://wm-lend.ru]https://wm-lend.ru[/url]. как снять видео в онлайн игре

I concur.

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, GeraldWem said:

прически летние 2011 картинки. Быстрый кредит вебмани [url=https://wm-lend.ru]https://wm-lend.ru[/url]. как снять видео в онлайн игре

I think a goaltender bot just might work.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

After world juniors I'm kind of wondering who's going to scoop up Lampinen, for instance.   PTO, or whatever other means.

I think there will still be some post-covid draft-correction going on. Not saying it's Lampinen in particular, but now also with the Russian fiasco going on it's been hard to get proper viewings and assessments. 20/21 were tough draft years unlike any we've seen. So it's reasonable to assume some correction is inevitable imo.

Russia has a pile of MHL goalies also. Just can't get proper assessments.

[Addicted]

9 hours ago, GeraldWem said:

прически летние 2011 картинки. Быстрый кредит вебмани [url=https://wm-lend.ru]https://wm-lend.ru[/url]. как снять видео в онлайн игре

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Wolf is same age/experience Murray/Vas was right now, and Murray was called up mid-season.   

 

So I'm complaining perhaps a few games early but we have a history here too of overplaying the starter etc.

 

Now, to be fair, Murray was, well noticeably better at the same age, and, 6'5.

 

Point is I don't think it would harm Wolf any to get some games in, and who knows maybe he translates way better than we expect.

 

2 hours ago, Addicted said:

 

What is "noticeably better".  Were you watching games in Scranton?

You mean that he had a better SA% and GAA?

Or that Murray had 8 less wins and one more loss in 7 less games?

He was called up because MAF was down for the end of the season.

It happens.

He beat out Zatkoff for the replacement role and took them into the playoffs.

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

What is "noticeably better".  Were you watching games in Scranton?

You mean that he had a better SA% and GAA?

Or that Murray had 8 less wins and one more loss in 7 less games?

He was called up because MAF was down for the end of the season.

It happens.

He beat out Zatkoff for the replacement role and took them into the playoffs.

 

 

"took them into the playoffs".   

 

very generous of you lol

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

"took them into the playoffs".   

 

very generous of you lol

 

It was an accurate statement, talking about the regular season.

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It was an accurate statement, talking about the regular season.

 

we've become used to that haven't we

[flames for life]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying.  We were in a cycle of retread goalies at the time of Ortio.

Even so, Ortio wasn't good enough.

Skinner, by comparison is 10x better.  

He's doing well on a team that can't protect a goalie.

 

Wolf is a young guy with 1 year of pro.

Murray was in his 3rd year of AHL before he got the call.

Binnington was in what, his 4th year?

Just two guys that won the cup.

Vasilevskiy had a couple of KHL season and an AHL season.

 

Marky isn't exactly sucking.

Maybe less than we expected after last season's results.

But, the signs are he's getting better not worse.

I guess I might have been misunderstood. I think Wolf has the bones to be an NHL goaltender, but at this moment, what’s the rush?  He could do a couple of years developing in the farm, and only brought up if necessary.  Too many times we rush a player, and then chew them out when their confidence gets shaken.

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I guess I might have been misunderstood. I think Wolf has the bones to be an NHL goaltender, but at this moment, what’s the rush?  He could do a couple of years developing in the farm, and only brought up if necessary.  Too many times we rush a player, and then chew them out when their confidence gets shaken.

 

I wasn't suggesting we rush or hold him back.

I think we are set for at least 2 to 3 years.

[cross16]

More accolades for Wolf. Surprise, surprise

 

 

[conundrumed]

It’s probably time to call him up and see what he has. Why wait for an injury that isn’t happening?

Goalie may be our strongest suit to trade from. Why wait and never find out?

Wolf has zero left to prove in the A and we aren’t good enough as a team as it stands.

Maybe Wolf’s ready to provide us with a significant hockey trade.

Because we don’t have much else for bait to upgrade for a shoot first forward.

Recall Chechelev from the E for some A reps.

Or are we just going to continue to bottleneck all of our prospects?

 

 

[jjgallow]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It’s probably time to call him up and see what he has. Why wait for an injury that isn’t happening?

Goalie may be our strongest suit to trade from. Why wait and never find out?

Wolf has zero left to prove in the A and we aren’t good enough as a team as it stands.

Maybe Wolf’s ready to provide us with a significant hockey trade.

Because we don’t have much else for bait to upgrade for a shoot first forward.

Recall Chechelev from the E for some A reps.

Or are we just going to continue to bottleneck all of our prospects?

 

We are discovering more and more in modern hockey that goalies needing to be 28 years old before they can play in the NHL is a ridiculous myth.

 

Wolf is ready and should be given a chance.    

 

Like Phillips. he has size issues.  Like a number of our prospects.  That is just what happens when you let all your top picks go.    But the Flames have done as well as can be expected in these later rounds and it's time to drop the old-school thinking.    

 

I'm not sure if Phillips or Wolf can make the translation.  But I am pretty sure age won't be the issue.   They are both skill ready and should either be given a chance or traded.   Anything less than one of those options as a signal to the NHL that Calgary should be avoided by prospects.   If they hadn't already noticed.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Like Phillips. he has size issues.  Like a number of our prospects.  That is just what happens when you let all your top picks go.    But the Flames have done as well as can be expected in these later rounds and it's time to drop the old-school thinking.   

 

It doesn't matter when you draft.  The small players are in the early rounds.

Stankoven, Bedard are both small to small-ish.

The problem is the disconnect between coach and scouting.

 

 

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We are discovering more and more in modern hockey that goalies needing to be 28 years old before they can play in the NHL is a ridiculous myth.

 

Wolf is ready and should be given a chance.    

 

Like Phillips. he has size issues.  Like a number of our prospects.  That is just what happens when you let all your top picks go.    But the Flames have done as well as can be expected in these later rounds and it's time to drop the old-school thinking.    

 

I'm not sure if Phillips or Wolf can make the translation.  But I am pretty sure age won't be the issue.   They are both skill ready and should either be given a chance or traded.   Anything less than one of those options as a signal to the NHL that Calgary should be avoided by prospects.   If they hadn't already noticed.

But but but AHL prospects don't know what it takes. Only guys that won cups 10+ years ago understand.

Smaller players = faster players. We're slow at the NHL level. But hey, our AHL team is awesome.

Which cup do we actually want? I'm sure it was Dube that Sutter alluded to as "came up too soon".

Well, he's one of your best play drivers. So maybe it's okay to get guys going a little earlier and stop relying on guys in their twilight years.

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It doesn't matter when you draft.  The small players are in the early rounds.

Stankoven, Bedard are both small to small-ish.

The problem is the disconnect between coach and scouting.

 

I think I get the point you're trying to make but that's quite a bomb to drop lol

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But but but AHL prospects don't know what it takes. Only guys that won cups 10+ years ago understand.

Smaller players = faster players. We're slow at the NHL level. But hey, our AHL team is awesome.

Which cup do we actually want? I'm sure it was Dube that Sutter alluded to as "came up too soon".

Well, he's one of your best play drivers. So maybe it's okay to get guys going a little earlier and stop relying on guys in their twilight years.

 

 

Oh I love that gif.  Not a political statement

 

I dunno about you and your smaller players.  I think the NHL made some big mistakes there with equipment rules and arena sizes that are effectively keeping some of the most talented hockey players out of the NHL.

 

But we're on the same page with age.   And it comes down to this:  don't be extreme.

 

You draft an 18 year old, think twice before playing him in the first year  (cough cough Monahan Bennett etc etc).

You got a 21 year old dominating the AHL:  Don't overthink it.

[conundrumed]

Elmer Soderblom RW/LW (21), 2019 6th rd.

6'8". 250lbs.

Current status: NHL

Imagine getting a late round pick on an ELC for another 2 years that would have made Lucic obsolete.

Better skater, better hands, can't move him in front of the net.

21. No cups.

Perchance to dream that we get over the dinosaur guys and try to get better by getting younger.

Everyone's doing it, why not us? Dallas is doing it, they aren't rebuilding. They aren't doing it with top picks.

Heiskenen was 3oa, that's about it. Now they have Wyatt Johnson and Stankoven coming up. Robertson and Hintz both rd 2. Prolly 4 of your future top 6, none of them top 20 picks.

 

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think I get the point you're trying to make but that's quite a bomb to drop lol

 

Well, you do know what I was saying, but the point is also 100% true at face value.

A 1st overall (Yak) vs 4th rounder (Johnny Gaudreau).

Perhaps 2 players that had different dev paths that ended up going in different directions.

 

If you draft smaller players, then you best get them in the NHL sooner than later.

The size is going to be an issue but not the issue.

Phillips or Pelletier.

Both small but both high level in junior, and now the AHL.

We needed a setup guy and a finisher.

Lucic gets benched for lousy play for 3 games.

We play Phillips 16 minutes along with a big lug.

Big lug probably capable of replacing Lucic full time.

Lucic goes from healthy scratch to 4th line to 2nd line and up to 15 minutes.

 

 

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Elmer Soderblom RW/LW (21), 2019 6th rd.

6'8". 250lbs.

Current status: NHL

Imagine getting a late round pick on an ELC for another 2 years that would have made Lucic obsolete.

Better skater, better hands, can't move him in front of the net.

21. No cups.

Perchance to dream that we get over the dinosaur guys and try to get better by getting younger.

Everyone's doing it, why not us? Dallas is doing it, they aren't rebuilding. They aren't doing it with top picks.

Heiskenen was 3oa, that's about it. Now they have Wyatt Johnson and Stankoven coming up. Robertson and Hintz both rd 2. Prolly 4 of your future top 6, none of them top 20 picks.

 

 

Lucic doesn't need that guy to be obsolete haha, primary issue is the buyout.    

 

But yeah there are some great picks in the later rounds.   We gave away a whole bunch of our later picks too so that's one of the reasons why not us.    You really want to get it done, you need to fire on all cyclinders.  No messing around with "we'll just rely on 6th rounders".   Nah.  You need to draft well  in all your rounds.    Wyatt is a first rounder.  Heskenen.    Nichushkin.    Dallas is getting it done with all of their rounds, and one of the reasons is they actually have draft picks in all the rounds.  Sometimes as many as 10 picks.

 

We don't.  We can't even hold onto our allotment.    

 

But anyway I have no issues with success in the later rounds.   To think that's a justification for giving away your early rounds is a whole other ball of yarn.

 

And circling back on topic:    Would it be the worst thing in the world if we had Wallstedt and Wolf?  We could have.  More than likely one of them will turn out.  Maybe both.   That's multiple years of high-end goaltending, maybe even a goaltending tandem, at almost zero cap hit.  

 

Just think of what we could do.   We could afford to give Lucic a raise then.

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, you do know what I was saying, but the point is also 100% true at face value.

A 1st overall (Yak) vs 4th rounder (Johnny Gaudreau).

Perhaps 2 players that had different dev paths that ended up going in different directions.

 

If you draft smaller players, then you best get them in the NHL sooner than later.

The size is going to be an issue but not the issue.

Phillips or Pelletier.

Both small but both high level in junior, and now the AHL.

We needed a setup guy and a finisher.

Lucic gets benched for lousy play for 3 games.

We play Phillips 16 minutes along with a big lug.

Big lug probably capable of replacing Lucic full time.

Lucic goes from healthy scratch to 4th line to 2nd line and up to 15 minutes.

 

 

 

Cool maybe Bedard will go in the third round then.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Cool maybe Bedard will go in the third round then.

 

Naw, he's having a WJC that will have GM fighting to get him.

Imagine the JJ'ing that teams will be doing in the next couple of months.

There will be a steal in the 2nd round, but we need more picks.

I'm not hoping for a sell off, but I hope that we take advantage of teams JJ'ing.

Look for good players on teams like ANA and ARI.

BUFF is trying to figure out how to lose 30 in a row, while still developing the good ones.

[conundrumed]

26 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Lucic doesn't need that guy to be obsolete haha, primary issue is the buyout.    

 

But yeah there are some great picks in the later rounds.   We gave away a whole bunch of our later picks too so that's one of the reasons why not us.    You really want to get it done, you need to fire on all cyclinders.  No messing around with "we'll just rely on 6th rounders".   Nah.  You need to draft well  in all your rounds.    Wyatt is a first rounder.  Heskenen.    Nichushkin.    Dallas is getting it done with all of their rounds, and one of the reasons is they actually have draft picks in all the rounds.  Sometimes as many as 10 picks.

 

We don't.  We can't even hold onto our allotment.    

 

But anyway I have no issues with success in the later rounds.   To think that's a justification for giving away your early rounds is a whole other ball of yarn.

 

And circling back on topic:    Would it be the worst thing in the world if we had Wallstedt and Wolf?  We could have.  More than likely one of them will turn out.  Maybe both.   That's multiple years of high-end goaltending, maybe even a goaltending tandem, at almost zero cap hit.  

 

Just think of what we could do.   We could afford to give Lucic a raise then.

 

 

Instead of Coronato? I'd sat no. Sergeev and Chechelev are coming up behind just fine. I don't mind that at all.

Keep scouring the NAHL for late rders. Can't scour the MHL presently.