Goaltending

[robrob74]

Goaltending has been bad. 
 

has it been all goaltending?

 

how much of this season is on transition defending? There has been a lot of brain fart plays again this year. How does it compare to last year? And did the goalie just make the saves last year and just not this year? 
 

I feel like it is him and the D. It's a team game. 
 

is

Markstrom elite or just a quality starter? 
 

maybe Edmonton in the playoffs ruined him? 
 

when a team is this bad, like Montreal for years, Price made them good and brought them to the finals. Price made them relevant in a playoff place, maybe not contenders though... 

 

i think Markstrom needs to be better. The team is too discombobulated to be all on him. 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Goaltending has been bad. 
 

has it been all goaltending?

 

how much of this season is on transition defending? There has been a lot of brain fart plays again this year. How does it compare to last year? And did the goalie just make the saves last year and just not this year? 
 

I feel like it is him and the D. It's a team game. 
 

is

Markstrom elite or just a quality starter? 
 

maybe Edmonton in the playoffs ruined him? 
 

when a team is this bad, like Montreal for years, Price made them good and brought them to the finals. Price made them relevant in a playoff place, maybe not contenders though... 

 

i think Markstrom needs to be better. The team is too discombobulated to be all on him. 

 

Bad goaltending gets you bad defending and vice bersa.

What I am seeing is a goalie struggling to find his angles.

He's leaving too many holes.

I can get a perfect shot peating hi to a top corner, but he's getting beat that way daily.

His glove looks like he's lost the feel of the puck and it pops put and deflects off.

 

ANA played the Oilers and a noname goalie stop close to 50 shots.

That is what you want to see from a starter.

Win a game by yourself.

I don't mean stop all but 2 goals and lose 2-1.

We've seen too many backbreaker goals.

Mackey scores to make it close and we give one up minutes later.

Not saying the D didn't blow the pass, but make the f'n stop.

I don't care how.

 

To sum it up, there are problems that a goalie can cover, but not may an team can cover for a goalie.

[robrob74]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bad goaltending gets you bad defending and vice bersa.

What I am seeing is a goalie struggling to find his angles.

He's leaving too many holes.

I can get a perfect shot peating hi to a top corner, but he's getting beat that way daily.

His glove looks like he's lost the feel of the puck and it pops put and deflects off.

 

ANA played the Oilers and a noname goalie stop close to 50 shots.

That is what you want to see from a starter.

Win a game by yourself.

I don't mean stop all but 2 goals and lose 2-1.

We've seen too many backbreaker goals.

Mackey scores to make it close and we give one up minutes later.

Not saying the D didn't blow the pass, but make the f'n stop.

I don't care how.

 

To sum it up, there are problems that a goalie can cover, but not may an team can cover for a goalie.

love the post! 
 

when a team is down like the flames are, goaltending can make things easier if they can steal one or two.

 

right now, if that were the case, the flames might be in a playoff spot.

Although, how many did they lose to goaltending already. Play like a starter and there's at least a few more points. 

[conundrumed]

NHL

Markstrom: 9-8-4; 2.88gaa; .893sv%

Vladar: 5-4-3; 2.81gaa; .905sv%

AHL

Wolf: 14-4-0; 2.33gaa; .921sv% 3SO

ECHL

Daniil Chechelev 12-5-0; 2.85gaa; .916sv%

NCAA

Sergeev: 6-2-1; 2.57gaa; .919sv%

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

NHL

Markstrom: 9-8-4; 2.88gaa; .893sv%

Vladar: 5-4-3; 2.81gaa; .905sv%

AHL

Wolf: 14-4-0; 2.33gaa; .921sv% 3SO

ECHL

Daniil Chechelev 12-5-0; 2.85gaa; .916sv%

NCAA

Sergeev: 6-2-1; 2.57gaa; .919sv%

 

I like what the prospects are doing so far.

Markie is picking up, but still allowing too many for the number of shots.

Vladar is always showing a string game, whether he wins or not.

Very seldom are the goal what I would call "shoulda haves".

[cross16]

I am of the belief that if the Flames were receiving even avg goaltending from Markstrom, and to an extent Vladar to begin the season, they are in the a playoff spot right now and the angst around this team is greatly reduced. I think it's been a net negative 4 point swing for the Flames, in that I think goaltending has cost them 4 points less than what they ahve gained them. I think there has only been a game or 2 where goaltending stole them points and there's been 5-6 where they've cost them points. That would put them 3rd in the division right behind LA and in a spot where they likely were expected to be when starting the season. 

 

I agree it's a team game and I also agree that the Flames need to be more consistent in their team game and defense. However at the same time they are top 10 in pretty much all defensive metrics so it's really hard for me to say the D hasn't played well enough or that we can absolve a bit of Markstrom's play because the team hasn't been good. He's just needed to make more saves. 

 

I think he's been pretty good the last 2 weeks and for me that's what Markstrom he. He is a pretty good goalie, one that should give you a quality start far more often than not and keep you in games with stealing the odd one. While the Vezina nomination was great last year I personally don't think that is the type of goalie he is. 

[robrob74]

I'd still have the angst around the team game. It's not, nor will it be at a place where they can win a round in the playoffs. A playoff team, sure, but not a threat. 

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I'd still have the angst around the team game. It's not, nor will it be at a place where they can win a round in the playoffs. A playoff team, sure, but not a threat. 

Well the good news is the playoffs don't start tomorrow.  They don't start until April.  Lots can change, there have been plenty of teams that didn't look like champions in December.  The other thing to remember the coach has done better in the underdog role in the past than a favorite. 

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I'd still have the angst around the team game. It's not, nor will it be at a place where they can win a round in the playoffs. A playoff team, sure, but not a threat. 

 

Also a lot harder to find your team game, especially with the turnover the Flames have, when you are consistently playing from behind. Frequently due to the fact your goalie can't make a save. 

 

[robrob74]

I've been told to shut it when the team is winning and I see holes in their game and now they're losing and I see holes in their game and I'm told to shut it again, basically...

[cross16]

I'm not sure how offering a different opinion is being told to "shut it". No one here is saying their game is perfect and it's all on Markstrom. I have no problem pointing the finger at the team if they are sloppy and the goalies don't play well because of it but I also just don't think that's really what has happened that much this year. 

 

It is also possible to say the team needs to improve their game and the goalies need to be better too. Doesn't have to be one or the other and I would be in the camp that would suggest both need to improve. I just think Markstrom needs to improve more that's all. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I've been told to shut it when the team is winning and I see holes in their game and now they're losing and I see holes in their game and I'm told to shut it again, basically...

 

Not sure what you refer to but I think sometimes (not you specifically) people look for holes in a team game that happens to every team.  THere is no perfect team.  There are ones you see winning, but how often do people watch the losses or the holes in their games.  Toronto is pretty easy to pick apart and they are a winning team.  The Oiler rs score a ton but also give up a ton and play like they don't know how to defend.  

 

ANyway, keep up the posting, not everyone agrees.  Some may sound like they are trashing you but they just don't agree.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I've been told to shut it when the team is winning and I see holes in their game and now they're losing and I see holes in their game and I'm told to shut it again, basically...

 

I've come to accept this forum as not so bad.

 

Everyone here is a fan.  So when you say something which could be critical of the team, it only takes one person on a bad day to go Will Smith on you.

 

Flames are somewhere between a mess and a disaster right now.  

 

Everyone knows it, even the people you might anger.  And whenever things go bad, people always blame the coach/goalie first.  As if we have no other issues (defense, forwards, prospects, picks cap spend).  Always goalies/coach first.

 

Is what it is.  As Bertuzzzzzi would say.

 

At the end of the day, having been on other forums, I've come to accept that it's not specific to people here.  And in fact, since @The_People1 and @travel_dude took over moderating, there's been more diversity and free speech here than on really most other mediums.  Sometimes, in fact, more than I would like.   Ultimately they should be thanked and credited for that.

 

But yeah.  Ain't no fan site deals with criticism well. Ain't none.   And people will argue and say they're dealing with it fine.

 

They aren't.  They just can't see they're not.

 

But it's just not here, it's just all us humans being us humans.

 

 

So on that note:

 

Two things:

 

1.  None of this would have happened had they kept Ortio

 

2.  They should give Wolf a shot up here.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Two things:

 

1.  None of this would have happened had they kept Ortio

 

2.  They should give Wolf a shot up here.

 

Bwahahaha

Perhaps we would have gotten that 1st overall and not trade a couple of times for goalies.

But then we wouldn't have drafted Wolf.

[Heartbreaker]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

At the end of the day, having been on other forums, I've come to accept that it's not specific to people here.  And in fact, since  and  took over moderating, there's been more diversity and free speech here than on really most other mediums.  Sometimes, in fact, more than I would like.   Ultimately they should be thanked and credited for that.

 

This is true... I was suspended for a period in 2011 because I suggested that Big Chief should stop acting so boorishly.

 

Yes, I actually said boorishly.

 

Love.

[conundrumed]

38 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This is true... I was suspended for a period in 2011 because I suggested that Big Chief should stop acting so boorishly.

 

Yes, I actually said boorishly.

 

Love.

Do you recall an explanation? Mine was for getting around the swear filter. I think I said effing or something that was kinda whatever.

But I certainly wouldn't have the chutzpah to use "boorishly". There are some lines that just shouldn't be crossed.😱😃

[Heartbreaker]

13 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Do you recall an explanation? Mine was for getting around the swear filter. I think I said effing or something that was kinda whatever.

But I certainly wouldn't have the chutzpah to use "boorishly". There are some lines that just shouldn't be crossed.😱😃

 

Yeah, I found it!

 

Quote

Take some time off to reflect whether you want to ever post here again or not. Public complaining and moderator abuse will not be tolerated.

Have a nice day.

 

I didn't get in any trouble for getting around the swear filter. There was a particularly frustrating game a few years ago - I think around the time the filter was changed from fruits to crypto - I posted in a GDT something along the lines of, "Time to test out the new swear filter", and copied and pasted a very thorough list that I found online. Kulstad, who was undoubtedly one of my favourite Admins (I miss him...), told me that the post was out of bounds, and removed it - but he also said that it was very useful.

 

So, it was basically a PSA.

 

Anyway, sorry to derail...

 

Goalies, eh?

 

Love.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Yeah, I found it!

 

 

I didn't get in any trouble for getting around the swear filter. There was a particularly frustrating game a few years ago - I think around the time the filter was changed from fruits to crypto - I posted in a GDT something along the lines of, "Time to test out the new swear filter", and copied and pasted a very thorough list that I found online. Kulstad, who was undoubtedly one of my favourite Admins (I miss him...), told me that the post was out of bounds, and removed it - but he also said that it was very useful.

 

So, it was basically a PSA.

 

Anyway, sorry to derail...

 

Goalies, eh?

 

Love.

Holy tender feelings.lol

Yeah, I'm not at the point of blaming goaltending(back on topic). Going down 1 or 2 nil early shouldn't be a death knell but it has been. I'll start blaming G when they get consistent goal support, not 40 perimeter shots.

[sak22]

28 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Holy tender feelings.lol

Yeah, I'm not at the point of blaming goaltending(back on topic). Going down 1 or 2 nil early shouldn't be a death knell but it has been. I'll start blaming G when they get consistent goal support, not 40 perimeter shots.

Yeah in the period where Markstrom threw himself under the bus he lost 6 straight where the team scored a whopping 8 goals, 8 goals in 6 games you do the math, 2 SO losses, 1 1 goal game, 1 1 goal with an empty netter and one where the team got shutout.  Add in of those 6 games 5 were against teams in the bottom 10 of the league for goals against.  Not playing up to last year, but take away the St. Louis game and first 3 minutes of Vancouver he's was good enough to win the rest of those games.

[cross16]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Holy tender feelings.lol

Yeah, I'm not at the point of blaming goaltending(back on topic). Going down 1 or 2 nil early shouldn't be a death knell but it has been. I'll start blaming G when they get consistent goal support, not 40 perimeter shots.

I get this in theory but in the NHL the team that scores first wins approximately 70% of the time.  Not a death nil but it is pretty impactful. 
 

Especially for a team still trying to find its  way. 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, sak22 said:

Yeah in the period where Markstrom threw himself under the bus he lost 6 straight where the team scored a whopping 8 goals, 8 goals in 6 games you do the math, 2 SO losses, 1 1 goal game, 1 1 goal with an empty netter and one where the team got shutout.  Add in of those 6 games 5 were against teams in the bottom 10 of the league for goals against.  Not playing up to last year, but take away the St. Louis game and first 3 minutes of Vancouver he's was good enough to win the rest of those games.

 

When MAF was a star, he won the games he needed to and kept them in the ones that were high scoring.

Make that next save.

Don't let in a goal when the other team gets scored on.

Whether it's on the goalie or not, he has one job.

Make that next save.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

When MAF was a star, he won the games he needed to and kept them in the ones that were high scoring.

Make that next save.

Don't let in a goal when the other team gets scored on.

Whether it's on the goalie or not, he has one job.

Make that next save.

 

Another interesting thing about MAF is he was given an opportunity to develop in the NHL as a 21 year old.

 

Much like we are doing with Wolf.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Another interesting thing about MAF is he was given an opportunity to develop in the NHL as a 21 year old.

 

Much like we are doing with Wolf.

 

Different era, n'est pas?

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

I get this in theory but in the NHL the team that scores first wins approximately 70% of the time.  Not a death nil but it is pretty impactful. 
 

Especially for a team still trying to find its  way. 

Bah, the team sucked. Blaming the goalie is the easy way out when the other 18 guys are playing like hot garbage.

Blame the goalie though...score some Blockchaining goals helps.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Bah, the team sucked. Blaming the goalie is the easy way out when the other 18 guys are playing like hot garbage.

Blame the goalie though...score some Blockchaining goals helps.

im not blaming the goalie.