2022 Offseason

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Imagine drafting Gaudreau and Mangiapane in the mid rounds AND also #1 overall.  That's the way to go.

thats what I'm saying! Or taking a calculated risk and up a player on a board and drafting Kucherov and Gaudreau in the same draft like they were going to. Gambled on the wrong round for one. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Imagine drafting Gaudreau and Mangiapane in the mid rounds AND also #1 overall.  That's the way to go.

If we are going to play the could've game, what would be better drafting Gaudreau in the 4th and winning Nugent Hopkins, or picking JT Miller instead of Sven?  Add in if we didn't pass up on Kucherov in the 2nd and were probably contenders without a #1.

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Ya he wasn't great under Ward either. He had some flashes but it was a really up and down season even before Sutter took over. Still plenty of talent there and not uncommon at all that a player that missed what is basically a season and a half would take some time. 

 

I just can't stand this entitled stuff crap. Is the kid confident sure and he should be. Entitled when no one here knows him? I just hate that stuff. Kid has battled multiple injuries in his career, most of which bad luck. 

Every high level athlete has have masssive  self confident to be succussful at the highest level.  Some have to over come adversity, case in point Crosby, Mc Jesus, its how your respond to adversity not use it as a conveniet excuse to justify your inadequate performaces. You can be as self confident as you like but that confidance has to be equal or greater in your performance. These are conversations I have with some of my high level students 1) if you have to tell your good you are your not that F' ing good, let others talk about your performance 2) You don't like your situation in the rotation or roster, simple Play better. 3) if your playing and performance intimidates people that their's problem, not yours. 4) The situation your in right now can and will change the mintue you decide to change. 5) your one bad decision or choice to being replaced, chose wisley. 

 

Could this kid be good not sure we have seen glimpes . The fact that he sat in a media conferance and made the statement of Play me more and I will improve says volumes in my world as it would in any coaches. The NHL is not a development league and IMHO thats been the outiler for the Flames with some prospects. When you constantly inject younger players into a roster becasue they are the best option is flawed, It been getting better under Tre. All you do with younger players is set them up for failure in most cases. 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Every high level athlete has have masssive  self confident to be succussful at the highest level.  Some have to over come adversity, case in point Crosby, Mc Jesus, its how your respond to adversity not use it as a conveniet excuse to justify your inadequate performaces. You can be as self confident as you like but that confidance has to be equal or greater in your performance. These are conversations I have with some of my high level students 1) if you have to tell your good you are your not that F' ing good, let others talk about your performance 2) You don't like your situation in the rotation or roster, simple Play better. 3) if your playing and performance intimidates people that their's problem, not yours. 4) The situation your in right now can and will change the mintue you decide to change. 5) your one bad decision or choice to being replaced, chose wisley. 

 

Could this kid be good not sure we have seen glimpes . The fact that he sat in a media conferance and made the statement of Play me more and I will improve says volumes in my world as it would in any coaches. The NHL is not a development league and IMHO thats been the outiler for the Flames with some prospects. When you constantly inject younger players into a roster becasue they are the best option is flawed, It been getting better under Tre. All you do with younger players is set them up for failure in most cases. 

 

Saying a player is entitled based on a statement made in a press conference (which context would be extremely important to remember) is what I think is crap.

 

We really have no idea how he is behind the scenes so I really don't understand the rush to criticize. 

[The_People1]

52 minutes ago, sak22 said:

If we are going to play the could've game, what would be better drafting Gaudreau in the 4th and winning Nugent Hopkins, or picking JT Miller instead of Sven?  Add in if we didn't pass up on Kucherov in the 2nd and were probably contenders without a #1.

 

Why not all?  Kucherov + Gaudreau + 1st overall?  Done a rebuild in one single draft.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why not all?  Kucherov + Gaudreau + 1st overall?  Done a rebuild in one single draft.

I'm just saying I'd rather Miller than Nuge in that case.  #1 in that draft was extremely overrated.  Trying to point out it is possible to build without the top pick, not an easy approach, but there are still many cases where #1 isn't the best player in the draft.

[tmac70]

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Saying a player is entitled based on a statement made in a press conference (which context would be extremely important to remember) is what I think is crap.

 

We really have no idea how he is behind the scenes so I really don't understand the rush to criticize. 

There is no rush to criticize or be offfended by the statement, Facts are he is not playing, that's on him.   So unless your privy to what goes on behind the scenes we are both inaccurate.  What I find is BS is there are 100 excuses why he is not a regular in the line. Life is hard pro sports are harder, your now in a world of only the best and fittest survive in this league. 

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I'm just saying I'd rather Miller than Nuge in that case.  #1 in that draft was extremely overrated.  Trying to point out it is possible to build without the top pick, not an easy approach, but there are still many cases where #1 isn't the best player in the draft.

 

#1 has nothing to do with Nuge.  Having #1 let's you pick Miller if you wanted to.  You still have to make the right picks at #1.

 

Makar instead of Hischier or Patrick, for example.

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There is no rush to criticize or be offfended by the statement, Facts are he is not playing, that's on him.   So unless your privy to what goes on behind the scenes we are both inaccurate.  What I find is BS is there are 100 excuses why he is not a regular in the line. Life is hard pro sports are harder, your now in a world of only the best and fittest survive in this league. 

 

What excuses are being made?

 

I'm not sure i'm seeing many excuses. The talent is there and if he has a good summer and comes in ready to build off the coaching he's been given he'll been in a good spot to challenge for a spot and if he doesn't he won't. 

 

Pretty simple and i'm not sure why entitlement matters at all here really. 

[sak22]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

#1 has nothing to do with Nuge.  Having #1 let's you pick Miller if you wanted to.  You still have to make the right picks at #1.

 

Makar instead of Hischier or Patrick, for example.

Well no one in their right mind is doing that in 2011.  There aren't always elite 18 year olds and that draft was the proof, when thats the case how easy is it to figure out who would be the best at 25.  People here at that time were elated to get Sven and wondering why the hell we wasted even a 4th round pick on a 135lb USHL kid.  Drafting is hard, its just hindsight that makes it look easy.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Well no one in their right mind is doing that in 2011.  There aren't always elite 18 year olds and that draft was the proof, when thats the case how easy is it to figure out who would be the best at 25.  People here at that time were elated to get Sven and wondering why the hell we wasted even a 4th round pick on a 135lb USHL kid.  Drafting is hard, its just hindsight that makes it look easy.

 

It's not easy but it's easier if you get to pick first before anyone else gets to pick.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's not easy but it's easier if you get to pick first before anyone else gets to pick.

[phoenix66]

21 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No.  It only outlines why you need to tank hardcore to top 2 pick.  Top 10 is hardly doing it right.

Even then ..  Yakupov, Nolan patrick.. top 2s can bust too 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Even then ..  Yakupov, Nolan patrick.. top 2s can bust too 

 

No one said to draft them tho.

 

For example, Shane Wright ranked #1 but passed over 3 times.  1st pick only means you get to go first.

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No one said to draft them tho.

 

For example, Shane Wright ranked #1 but passed over 3 times.  1st pick only means you get to go first.

I've always had a problem with this. The whole crowd makes things unanimous and everyone just seems to fall in line.

I've said this before, if I'm a mgr and you're my head jr scout, if I catch any of your people mingling in the scout crowd, you're out of a job. You're there for me and this team, not to make friends. If I can't trust you with that, go work for someone else.

I know a couple of scouts. It's pretty much useless to try to have a visit with them at a hockey game. It's an old boys club. They all sit in the same section, rub elbows and tell each other how smart they are. It is painful.

I would lose my excrement if that's what I was paying you to do.

This is where I love Yzerman. Detroit makes their picks and the talking heads scramble for their notes.

Consensus is bs. Why would I even pay for scouting?

[conundrumed]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No one said to draft them tho.

 

For example, Shane Wright ranked #1 but passed over 3 times.  1st pick only means you get to go first.

I will always remember that as the, "Shane Wright Fiasco". He was the best player in the draft, Hands down imho.

This consensus crap takes on a life of it's own.

What a win for Seattle. They must have been pinching themselves. Wright and Beniers down the middle. Now they seriously have 2 great young Cs to build around.

I believe in building from the net out. Solid Cs are the cherry on top. Now they can focus on the net out without worrying about the cherry.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I will always remember that as the, "Shane Wright Fiasco". He was the best player in the draft, Hands down imho.

This consensus crap takes on a life of it's own.

What a win for Seattle. They must have been pinching themselves. Wright and Beniers down the middle. Now they seriously have 2 great young Cs to build around.

I believe in building from the net out. Solid Cs are the cherry on top. Now they can focus on the net out without worrying about the cherry.

He may very well be the great player he was projected to be ... But again there is so much hindsight..maybe scouts saw something? 

Remember how elated Calgary was when Bennett "dropped," to them?   (I for one was sweating that the Oilers were going to scoop us and "stick" us with Leon ) Or how about the head scratching caused by Columbus reaching for PLD and skipping Puljjaarvi? 

I agree it's harder to bust at the top..but it's still no guarantee..

If Colorado hadn't lost the lottery.. do we believe they were still taking Makar ? 

[sak22]

49 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

He may very well be the great player he was projected to be ... But again there is so much hindsight..maybe scouts saw something? 

Remember how elated Calgary was when Bennett "dropped," to them?   (I for one was sweating that the Oilers were going to scoop us and "stick" us with Leon ) Or how about the head scratching caused by Columbus reaching for PLD and skipping Puljjaarvi? 

I agree it's harder to bust at the top..but it's still no guarantee..

If Colorado hadn't lost the lottery.. do we believe they were still taking Makar ? 

Kyle Turris was ranked #1 in his draft year, a big difference if he went #1 vs. the actual #1.  

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

He may very well be the great player he was projected to be ... But again there is so much hindsight..maybe scouts saw something? 

Remember how elated Calgary was when Bennett "dropped," to them?   (I for one was sweating that the Oilers were going to scoop us and "stick" us with Leon ) Or how about the head scratching caused by Columbus reaching for PLD and skipping Puljjaarvi? 

I agree it's harder to bust at the top..but it's still no guarantee..

If Colorado hadn't lost the lottery.. do we believe they were still taking Makar ? 

I'm sure they all agreed that they saw something.

He was easily the most complete player in the draft. Everyone else has weaknesses that they'll have to work on to be NHL-ready. Wright is a lot closer.

[tmac70]

18 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

What excuses are being made?

 

I'm not sure i'm seeing many excuses. The talent is there and if he has a good summer and comes in ready to build off the coaching he's been given he'll been in a good spot to challenge for a spot and if he doesn't he won't. 

 

Pretty simple and i'm not sure why entitlement matters at all here really. 

Its a mind set and percieved image of what someone views as their ideal perception of what should happen. You mentioned he had bad luck with injuries, JG had bad luck with size,  One figured it out the other has not. He was touted to be something special possibly by the scouts, management, ect. He went to Swiss League excelled, everything aligned that it was going to be a cake walk.  Some players get so much smoke blown up their arse they beleive its just going to be gifted to them, Yakapov, recently Wright. This is where the subjective manner comes from, does it come directly from him not sure, however the vibe is there. The worst thing for any development of any athlete is the inability to not deal with adversity, its just as important with growth and development as success is. Perfect example was Tiger Woods, before he hit the tour he played a PGA tour event.  His comments after the round were, I have to become better I am no where near good enough to play with these guys.  What makes good players better or great players exceptional is mind set. Crosby MC Jesus are never satisfied with what or how they are, its a how do I improve mindset that makes them exceptional. 

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Its a mind set and percieved image of what someone views as their ideal perception of what should happen. You mentioned he had bad luck with injuries, JG had bad luck with size,  One figured it out the other has not. He was touted to be something special possibly by the scouts, management, ect. He went to Swiss League excelled, everything aligned that it was going to be a cake walk.  Some players get so much smoke blown up their arse they beleive its just going to be gifted to them, Yakapov, recently Wright. This is where the subjective manner comes from, does it come directly from him not sure, however the vibe is there. The worst thing for any development of any athlete is the inability to not deal with adversity, its just as important with growth and development as success is. Perfect example was Tiger Woods, before he hit the tour he played a PGA tour event.  His comments after the round were, I have to become better I am no where near good enough to play with these guys.  What makes good players better or great players exceptional is mind set. Crosby MC Jesus are never satisfied with what or how they are, its a how do I improve mindset that makes them exceptional. 

Dude, honestly? Wright's fall was, imho, "oh, he's not going to be the next McDavid".

He'll be the next Toews but apparently no one understands how key that is.

That has zero to do with the player. You don't have much say when the adults are hypeing you through the roof and then turn on you for a new flavour, mainly to be "alternative".

This will be fun to watch, Montreal.

[sak22]

 

[conundrumed]

Holy, the Sens are unleashed this offseason.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

 

Doesn't make sense for the Sens to target a LHS LD... They've got Chabot and Sanderson there for the next 8+ years.  They need a stud RHS RD.

[Thebrewcrew]

8 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

 

If Colorado hadn't lost the lottery.. do we believe they were still taking Makar ? 

I don't believe that COL was taking Makar #1. I was able to have a conversation with an NHL scout, his team had a top 10 pick in 2017. He said that his team really liked Makar, but a lot of teams had a hard time justifying an AJHL player as the 1st overall pick. They looked at it like Makar was facing lower competition than the kids in the CHL