robrob74 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: Well interestingly enough 2013 was supposed to be a very strong draft year. The buzz going into that draft was it was the strongest and deepest in a decade and while it lacks a certain amount of start power outside the top 7-8, it is a deeper draft than most. Certainly a better draft than 2012 and at the very least on part with the likes of 2010/2011. This is why acquiring picks is not what it's always cracked up to be. The draft is not an exactly science so if you are trying to load up in "good" draft years that doesn't necessarily mean you will be right year's down the road. On top of that if it is a good draft year other teams know that too so it's harder to acquire game changing level picks that you would want to really turn around a franchise. Teams don't give up lottery picks so trying to target a certain draft is not exactly a viable strategy either. You can get a little lucky with it (Toronto giving up 2 first for Kessell, Ottawa 1st for Duchence, SJ 1st for Karlsson) and get a team that thinks they are contending to give you their first, but more often that not when you are acquiring picks they are late picks that are very unlikely to meaningfully change the team. It's part of what makes dealing high end players so challenging. This is a bone of contention for me, but it is just simply not this easy of an argument. At the time that trade was made there was no way of knowing Barzal would fall like he did and to this day it still makes no sense why he did. If the Flames waited until he was actually available and then made the trade then totally I would be find with this critique but that wasn't the decision making process. This is a total hindsight is 20/20 argument. ya, I get that about hindsight, but I remember being upset that we made the Hamilton deal. I was in rebuild mode and wanted to keep the first rounders. For me it wasn’t hindsight as much as the building philosophy I was in at the time, still am. I think you never know who might fall so it’s worth it to keep your 1st rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 54 minutes ago, robrob74 said: who would you think we traded or dealt in the change for the sake of change scenario? Dion Phaneuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, sak22 said: Dion Phaneuf This is part of my concern with Sutter. I don’t want him making any decisions on drafting or trading...the return for Phaneuf was shameful! Hopefully Sutter just focuses on coaching and doesn’t try to get too involved from a management stand point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, robrob74 said: ya, I get that about hindsight, but I remember being upset that we made the Hamilton deal. I was in rebuild mode and wanted to keep the first rounders. For me it wasn’t hindsight as much as the building philosophy I was in at the time, still am. I think you never know who might fall so it’s worth it to keep your 1st rounders. Well you and Oiler fans are probably the highest for hating that. If we don't make that trade he's likely an Oiler and they don't make the horrendous Reinhart trade. The reality is that 22 year old 6'6' RHS mobile 40 point defensemen don't come available for trade too often, and don't come in every draft either. We could've had Barzal, but we would be wasting him with nothing on defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, sak22 said: Well you and Oiler fans are probably the highest for hating that. If we don't make that trade he's likely an Oiler and they don't make the horrendous Reinhart trade. The reality is that 22 year old 6'6' RHS mobile 40 point defensemen don't come available for trade too often, and don't come in every draft either. We could've had Barzal, but we would be wasting him with nothing on defense. It's also possible that we would have eased him in on the fourth line left wing, or set him up with Lance Bouma and Troy Brouwer. Love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, sak22 said: Well you and Oiler fans are probably the highest for hating that. If we don't make that trade he's likely an Oiler and they don't make the horrendous Reinhart trade. The reality is that 22 year old 6'6' RHS mobile 40 point defensemen don't come available for trade too often, and don't come in every draft either. We could've had Barzal, but we would be wasting him with nothing on defense. This is where the difference comes in for me, the Oiilers made that trade knowing they could have had Barzal. That trade happened on the floor after Boston passed on Barzal 3 times and with Barzal there the Oilers still made the deal. I might sign a different tune if Treliving made the deal with Barzal available to him but the same time Hamilton was quite a prize and IMO well worth the deal they gave him. If you have a different philosophy fine but if Boston had of picked Barzal (or really several of the teams before the Islanders) this conversation is very different IMO. Would this conversation be had if they missed out on Chabot? Kyle Conner? Boesser? Konency (who BTW many argue would have been the Flames pick)? What about Evgency Svenchinkov or Noah Jullsen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, cross16 said: This is where the difference comes in for me, the Oiilers made that trade knowing they could have had Barzal. That trade happened on the floor after Boston passed on Barzal 3 times and with Barzal there the Oilers still made the deal. I might sign a different tune if Treliving made the deal with Barzal available to him but the same time Hamilton was quite a prize and IMO well worth the deal they gave him. If you have a different philosophy fine but if Boston had of picked Barzal (or really several of the teams before the Islanders) this conversation is very different IMO. Would this conversation be had if they missed out on Chabot? Kyle Conner? Boesser? Konency (who BTW many argue would have been the Flames pick)? What about Evgency Svenchinkov or Noah Jullsen? Yeah, I totally agree with this. I'm a big fan of Barzal, and would love for him to be a Flame, but there was no guarantee that they would have taken him with that pick. You've got to give to get, and I still make that trade seven days a week. The Hamonic trade, on the other hand... Love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 We are sellers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, rickross said: We are sellers! i missed the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 We are like the new Minnesota Wild of 4 or 5 years ago. Monahan is Koivu Gaudreau is Parise Giordano is Suter Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm is some blend of Staal, Granlund, and Zucker Markstrom is Dubnyk We are so average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, robrob74 said: i missed the game! You missed nothing! Typical Flames 2021 game. We will be sellers in a couple weeks, that much is apparent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, robrob74 said: i missed the game! consider yourself lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, The_People1 said: We are like the new Minnesota Wild of 4 or 5 years ago. Monahan is Koivu Gaudreau is Parise Giordano is Suter Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm is some blend of Staal, Granlund, and Zucker Markstrom is Dubnyk We are so average. Average is being nice! We can’t even beat a sub .500 team. Not even beat them but we can barely even compete and keep pace with them. They have a 1000 rookies and yet are outplaying every single one of our “vets”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, The_People1 said: We are like the new Minnesota Wild of 4 or 5 years ago. Monahan is Koivu Gaudreau is Parise Giordano is Suter Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm is some blend of Staal, Granlund, and Zucker Markstrom is Dubnyk We are so average. good comparison. And to top it off they hired a coach who has a system not built for how the team is built. hard for me to see this getting better anytime soon. They’ll win more games but the direction doesn’t look pretty to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, cross16 said: consider yourself lucky i was lucky! I got a new carving tool for Christmas from my in-law. I just read the two page GDT and it didn’t read pretty. Looked like a frustrating game to watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, rickross said: You missed nothing! Typical Flames 2021 game. We will be sellers in a couple weeks, that much is apparent It sure sounds like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, cross16 said: good comparison. And to top it off they hired a coach who has a system not built for how the team is built. hard for me to see this getting better anytime soon. They’ll win more games but the direction doesn’t look pretty to me the problem with winning more games means the lottery gets harder to win and will continue to keep us a middling Wild-esque team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, robrob74 said: It sure sounds like a good idea. Honestly it’s the only answer at this point. We tried the coach thing and it’s made no difference. We obviously don’t have the right pieces. There are no superstars on this team, just a very average group of players playing an average(if that!)team game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, robrob74 said: the problem with winning more games means the lottery gets harder to win and will continue to keep us a middling Wild-esque team. which is exactly what’s going to happen I think. I think they’ll start playing better under Sutter and they’ll go on a tear at the end and take themselves out of the lottery it was part tongue in cheek when I said it but I wasn’t totally joking when I said the flames would have to be better of keeping Ward. They would have had a better chance at being a lottery team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I thought Ottawa was the worst team in the league. I was mistaken they are the second worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I don't generally gove up on this team while they are still in the fight. What is hard is watching the up and down performances. A good game against the Oilers, then a bad one against OTT. Two good games against MTL and a 3rd against EDM, followed by a bad one to EDM. A gutted out win against TOR followed by a pathetic pair against TOR and OTT. I almost can predict the outcome of the next 5 games. Big win against OTT. Big win against WPG. Pathetic effort next night. Gutted out, but lose to WPG next week, Win against VAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 hours ago, rickross said: Average is being nice! We can’t even beat a sub .500 team. Not even beat them but we can barely even compete and keep pace with them. They have a 1000 rookies and yet are outplaying every single one of our “vets”. 5 hours ago, cross16 said: good comparison. And to top it off they hired a coach who has a system not built for how the team is built. hard for me to see this getting better anytime soon. They’ll win more games but the direction doesn’t look pretty to me I wish we played Ottawa 10 more times. We would clinch a top 5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 hours ago, cross16 said: which is exactly what’s going to happen I think. I think they’ll start playing better under Sutter and they’ll go on a tear at the end and take themselves out of the lottery it was part tongue in cheek when I said it but I wasn’t totally joking when I said the flames would have to be better of keeping Ward. They would have had a better chance at being a lottery team We already made a mistake upgrading our coaching. At this point, I hope we don't trade Giordano, Bennett, Gaudreau, and Monahan. Save those trades for the off-season after they help us get lower in the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 9 hours ago, travel_dude said: I don't generally gove up on this team while they are still in the fight. What is hard is watching the up and down performances. A good game against the Oilers, then a bad one against OTT. Two good games against MTL and a 3rd against EDM, followed by a bad one to EDM. A gutted out win against TOR followed by a pathetic pair against TOR and OTT. I almost can predict the outcome of the next 5 games. Big win against OTT. Big win against WPG. Pathetic effort next night. Gutted out, but lose to WPG next week, Win against VAN. Frustrating isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 hours ago, The_People1 said: We already made a mistake upgrading our coaching. At this point, I hope we don't trade Giordano, Bennett, Gaudreau, and Monahan. Save those trades for the off-season after they help us get lower in the standings. Agreed, I think they may do just that, it’s definitely the smart move, BT is under pressure to win now though but he was last year and shelf out on making over payment for rentals...I think he will do it again...Unless a major offer comes in..then he will otherwise I hope he just unloads some of the smaller pieces to clear cap space for the off season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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