WHO ARE THE CALGARY FLAMES???

[sak22]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It seems when the Flames have a high pick, they choose to do it on weak draft years.

Yeah timing plays a big part when it comes to rebuilding.  If the Oilers had 3 straight #1's from '07-'09 instead of '10-'12, they definitely don't have the #1 in '15 and maybe have another banner or 2.  Some years you get a Mitch Marner at #4, and some years you get something even worse than Bennett like Griffin Reinhart.  

[cross16]

51 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It seems when the Flames have a high pick, they choose to do it on weak draft years.

without a doubt. Which is a big reason why they haven’t had a number one center in over 25 years. 

[bigfaninlethbridge]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

without a doubt. Which is a big reason why they haven’t had a number one center in over 25 years. 

Even then, outside of the real home runs like McDavid, Eichel, Hedman etc... it can be a crapshoot anyways.  

 

It's getting to be more and more that your GM and his staff REALLY need to do their homework when deciding who to draft.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, bigfaninlethbridge said:

Even then, outside of the real home runs like McDavid, Eichel, Hedman etc... it can be a crapshoot anyways.  

 

It's getting to be more and more that your GM and his staff REALLY need to do their homework when deciding who to draft.

 

I agree and just saying, “well 30 other GMs missed too” doesn’t make it right when we miss on some players. It’s imperative to do so much more on scouting and evaluation. We seem to have the Mangiapane’s and Dube’s pegged, now expand the scouting to other types. It’s why this team is so bland and easy to stop. 
 

then develop your players properly. Just because One way works for one or two players doesn’t mean it works for everyone. We’ve screwed up at least two players. I have a feeling we are on our way to screwing up another, Valamaki.

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree and just saying, “well 30 other GMs missed too” doesn’t make it right when we miss on some players. It’s imperative to do so much more on scouting and evaluation. We seem to have the Mangiapane’s and Dube’s pegged, now expand the scouting to other types. It’s why this team is so bland and easy to stop. 
 

then develop your players properly. Just because One way works for one or two players doesn’t mean it works for everyone. We’ve screwed up at least two players. I have a feeling we are on our way to screwing up another, Valamaki.

 

I see the acquisition and development of Mangiapane and Dube as successes.    

 

I see the asset management of just stockpiling small left wingers and trading away our RHS players, as a failure.

 

It's ok if you specialize at just one kind of pipeline.  I guess.  But you better know how to move those assets.

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I see the acquisition and development of Mangiapane and Dube as successes.    

 

I see the asset management of just stockpiling small left wingers and trading away our RHS players, as a failure.

 

It's ok if you specialize at just one kind of pipeline.  I guess.  But you better know how to move those assets.

 

ya, it’s the obvious way to develop a player, but they’ve failed with Benny, they nearly failed with Backlund, they’re failing with Valamaki right now. They failed with Baertschi. It’s too many. The need is to develop. It’s one think if guys are ready and it’s another to send them to the minors.

 

Monahan was ok in his first year and it was apparent he could score goals. It’s possible we didn’t develop his overall game either.

[jjgallow]

51 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, it’s the obvious way to develop a player, but they’ve failed with Benny, they nearly failed with Backlund, they’re failing with Valamaki right now. They failed with Baertschi. It’s too many. The need is to develop. It’s one think if guys are ready and it’s another to send them to the minors.

 

Monahan was ok in his first year and it was apparent he could score goals. It’s possible we didn’t develop his overall game either.

 

Developing players gets in the way of a "Win Now" culture.

[MP5029]

This is exactly what we see from them, it’s a good read, hopefully, ownership and management alike take this into account but is gonna be tough to make large scale moves to improve...Francis ha been a total douche, telling every team he’s gonna want any player they make

moves for...

 

anyway not a good year to fully rebuild bit this article sums it up, it’s what they need to do:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.matchsticksandgasoline.com/platform/amp/2021/4/1/22362633/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place-the-harsh-truth-about-the-current-state-of-the-calgary-flames

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

So I was Talking to a Friend of mine that is Good Friends with Martin Gelina's, Now From what she Said to me the Problems With the Flames start with Johhny Gudreau He refuses to listen to Coaches He is the reason during his tenure on this team the coaches have been fired.. Now the Main Reason Brad treliving is Still the Gm of this Team after All the coaches at this time is Cause Himself Jim Bean(part-owner) Craig Conroy And Martin Gelina's Are Concerned for Johnny That he is literally Gonna Be serious injured out there and Cause he refuses to listen That is Why Darryl Sutter Was hired  Cause from What Gelinas Told her he is a Cancer in the locker room Now something Has to give here and i think that With Jim Bean Involved in all of this that is probably why Brad Still has a Job cause with a situation like this Firing the Gm isnt gonna Fix it And Right Now as a Organization With Darryl Sutter there trying to see if they can ship up Johnny if Not Bye Bye..Now myself i cant fully understand Johhny can Be a Perfectly Awsome

player when he puts his mind to it but he needs to start listening or it really doesnt matter what team he is apart of.. Now i asked her about Monahan and she said Gelly said he is the nicest Guy Around one of the Main Reason that He has had a Major Crap season is alot of times Sean plays injured cause he hates being out of the line up and he has alot of injuries he is going through right now.... Welll that is what i was told now i beileve it and my friend wouldnt lie and she knows Gelly i dont lol

[cross16]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, it’s the obvious way to develop a player, but they’ve failed with Benny, they nearly failed with Backlund, they’re failing with Valamaki right now. They failed with Baertschi. It’s too many. The need is to develop. It’s one think if guys are ready and it’s another to send them to the minors.

 

Monahan was ok in his first year and it was apparent he could score goals. It’s possible we didn’t develop his overall game either.

why is it we never take a look at the player? If the flames failed with Baertschi why did all the same problems follow him to the Canucks? We heard the same work ethic, attention to detail and entitled attitude remakes there that we did here. 
 

we are talking about the best of the best of a professional league and only a special few can make careers out of it so just by sheer numbers most players are going to “fail” their development. Don’t think it always points to a problem with the organization. 
 

under Treliving I think the flames have been very good in this area. Bennett is really the only one I see a problem with. 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

why is it we never take a look at the player? If the flames failed with Baertschi why did all the same problems follow him to the Canucks? We heard the same work ethic, attention to detail and entitled attitude remakes there that we did here. 
 

we are talking about the best of the best of a professional league and only a special few can make careers out of it so just by sheer numbers most players are going to “fail” their development. Don’t think it always points to a problem with the organization. 
 

under Treliving I think the flames have been very good in this area. Bennett is really the only one I see a problem with. 

 

It's very possible you can't fix stupid.  I really don't know what to think of Bennett.  I watch him play out there and he never seems to make the right decisions offensively.  Wrong side of a player on the forechack, so the puck pops out on the side with nobody there.  Try to dangle against one or two D-men.  Push the puck through defenders at the blueline.  Shoot for the top corner when you get a shot on net.

 

At this point, I don't know there is even a fix for Bennett.  I doubt he lights it up anywhere else in the league.  He could be s strong defensive player and carve out a role that way, but I think he still sees himself as a top 6 player.  If that were the case, he would look like the best player on any line he played on.  He's shown flashes of that.    

[The_Tribal Chief]

Without being Dumb what is a cancer in the dressing room mean

[MP5029]

54 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Without being Dumb what is a cancer in the dressing room mean

It means negative attitude, and or someone with ego issues causing a divide between players in the dressing room.  

 

 

[MP5029]

22 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

So I was Talking to a Friend of mine that is Good Friends with Martin Gelina's, Now From what she Said to me the Problems With the Flames start with Johhny Gudreau He refuses to listen to Coaches He is the reason during his tenure on this team the coaches have been fired.. Now the Main Reason Brad treliving is Still the Gm of this Team after All the coaches at this time is Cause Himself Jim Bean(part-owner) Craig Conroy And Martin Gelina's Are Concerned for Johnny That he is literally Gonna Be serious injured out there and Cause he refuses to listen That is Why Darryl Sutter Was hired  Cause from What Gelinas Told her he is a Cancer in the locker room Now something Has to give here and i think that With Jim Bean Involved in all of this that is probably why Brad Still has a Job cause with a situation like this Firing the Gm isnt gonna Fix it And Right Now as a Organization With Darryl Sutter there trying to see if they can ship up Johnny if Not Bye Bye..Now myself i cant fully understand Johhny can Be a Perfectly Awsome

player when he puts his mind to it but he needs to start listening or it really doesnt matter what team he is apart of.. Now i asked her about Monahan and she said Gelly said he is the nicest Guy Around one of the Main Reason that He has had a Major Crap season is alot of times Sean plays injured cause he hates being out of the line up and he has alot of injuries he is going through right now.... Welll that is what i was told now i beileve it and my friend wouldnt lie and she knows Gelly i dont lol

To be honest I believe it too, we kinda see this in the way the team is playing and in particular those two players who are supposed to be our two best (and have been)

 

I think they need to take Monahan out of the line up and force him to get fixed and healed up...

 

Definitely time To Trade Gaudreau, he’s got value so move him to where he may be happy and we can get an asset or two back that will help not hurt the team...on the GJ topic, it makes sense what with the no PP pass to him from Gio, he’s never in interviews with other players...heck

mostmof the time he’s not sporting any flames gear in those interviews, he looks like he’s ready to leave the building...I’d say this info seem spot on about him.

 

the only issue I have is why the heck did they not

trade him earlier in the season? Poor return and maybe they are waiting and gambling in the off season the return may be better? 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Cause the ownership doesnt want to give up on him and i understand he is a good player when he wants to be

[JTech780]

As of today we are closer to last place in the division than we are to a playoff spot. Montreal also has 5 games in hand, all they need to do is win 2 of those to open up a 10 point lead.

 

We are a lottery team.

[travel_dude]

On 4/4/2021 at 7:02 AM, The_Snowbear said:

So I was Talking to a Friend of mine that is Good Friends with Martin Gelina's, Now From what she Said to me the Problems With the Flames start with Johhny Gudreau He refuses to listen to Coaches He is the reason during his tenure on this team the coaches have been fired.. Now the Main Reason Brad treliving is Still the Gm of this Team after All the coaches at this time is Cause Himself Jim Bean(part-owner) Craig Conroy And Martin Gelina's Are Concerned for Johnny That he is literally Gonna Be serious injured out there and Cause he refuses to listen That is Why Darryl Sutter Was hired  Cause from What Gelinas Told her he is a Cancer in the locker room Now something Has to give here and i think that With Jim Bean Involved in all of this that is probably why Brad Still has a Job cause with a situation like this Firing the Gm isnt gonna Fix it And Right Now as a Organization With Darryl Sutter there trying to see if they can ship up Johnny if Not Bye Bye..Now myself i cant fully understand Johhny can Be a Perfectly Awsome

player when he puts his mind to it but he needs to start listening or it really doesnt matter what team he is apart of.. Now i asked her about Monahan and she said Gelly said he is the nicest Guy Around one of the Main Reason that He has had a Major Crap season is alot of times Sean plays injured cause he hates being out of the line up and he has alot of injuries he is going through right now.... Welll that is what i was told now i beileve it and my friend wouldnt lie and she knows Gelly i dont lol

 

I have a little trouble believing that an assistant coach would talk that candidly about the locker room or owners or GM.  That kind on informations can get a coach fired.

I'm not saying she is lying, just that she may have had heard some things and added her own beliefs to the story.  I have no doubt that there are problems with this team.  If Gaudreau was the only reason, then he would have been traded in the summer.  But the strugggles run a lot deeper.  Gio has been downright terrible.  Ras is struggling with playing with Gio.  Dube is not playing at a #1RW level.  Lindholm is being pushed into a top C role but is not ready or should be expected to be.  Tkachuk is struggling with his game.  Backlund is being used as a #3C and his game took a big dive.  The best player is Mangiapane who is plaing with Lucic and a struggling C.  Gaudreau is playing with a struggling C and a plug.

 

I have no doubt we will see changes, but let's not kid ourselves.  JH is not the issue.  We may have to use him to bring in assets to help, but he is not the problem.  The best players he's had on RW were Hudler (LW playing RW), Ferland (LW turned RW) and Lindholm.   The only time he's been a 70+ point player is with those three.  Last year was a mix.  This year it's been a rotating bunch of lesser players.  With a struggling Monahan, it's no wonder he can't produce.  

[robrob74]

On 4/4/2021 at 8:39 AM, cross16 said:

why is it we never take a look at the player? If the flames failed with Baertschi why did all the same problems follow him to the Canucks? We heard the same work ethic, attention to detail and entitled attitude remakes there that we did here. 
 

we are talking about the best of the best of a professional league and only a special few can make careers out of it so just by sheer numbers most players are going to “fail” their development. Don’t think it always points to a problem with the organization. 
 

under Treliving I think the flames have been very good in this area. Bennett is really the only one I see a problem with. 

 

i think Baertschi was bad attitude too. Bennett probably hasn’t done enough either. 
 

At the draft Baertschi seemed to be given the keys to the city without working for it. Then, i wonder if giving the taste in the emergency call up sets a bad precedent. A common denominator for both were the stints in the NHL. Baertschi had the 3 game stint with a lot of success and then a lot of entitlement. 
 

then you go Benny, he had a game with 1 assist in 2014/15 and then the 18 year old Sam Bennett playoff... after that, to most, there was no putting him in the minors. I’d hate to assume there’s entitlement there, but it almost seems like he hasn’t worked on his game at all. And I think it’s not all on him nor the team.

 

what I think is, the team needs to determine a development process. It’s not the same for everyone but maybe they could evade these kinds of situations. Something needs to be done differently. I would have put him in the minors if I wanted to develop a C. 

[robrob74]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have a little trouble believing that an assistant coach would talk that candidly about the locker room or owners or GM.  That kind on informations can get a coach fired.

I'm not saying she is lying, just that she may have had heard some things and added her own beliefs to the story.  I have no doubt that there are problems with this team.  If Gaudreau was the only reason, then he would have been traded in the summer.  But the strugggles run a lot deeper.  Gio has been downright terrible.  Ras is struggling with playing with Gio.  Dube is not playing at a #1RW level.  Lindholm is being pushed into a top C role but is not ready or should be expected to be.  Tkachuk is struggling with his game.  Backlund is being used as a #3C and his game took a big dive.  The best player is Mangiapane who is plaing with Lucic and a struggling C.  Gaudreau is playing with a struggling C and a plug.

 

I have no doubt we will see changes, but let's not kid ourselves.  JH is not the issue.  We may have to use him to bring in assets to help, but he is not the problem.  The best players he's had on RW were Hudler (LW playing RW), Ferland (LW turned RW) and Lindholm.   The only time he's been a 70+ point player is with those three.  Last year was a mix.  This year it's been a rotating bunch of lesser players.  With a struggling Monahan, it's no wonder he can't produce.  

 

one thing is, Johnny, Monny and Lindholm were a lot different post ASB the year Gaudreau played his best hockey. Back then I wondered if something happened because they looked like a line that loved each other to a line that hated each other. That was how it looked to me.
 

Does that mean Johnny was being the way Snowbear has described? Maybe. But purple Gatorade died then. 
 

there’s definitely something really off with the team and how often do you have to talk about a good room if it’s actually a good room, and how close everyone is?

 

I dunno... 

 

I mean, owners have chimed in in the past, so I can’t see it being out of the ordinary for them to try and right the ship with players who are a bit off to keep them longer term. Maybe that’s part of the analysis Sutter needs to do, analyze if Johnny is worth keeping, or digging deeper, who is worth keeping. Maybe there’s some truth and Johnny complains when they try to play him with anyone other than Monahan? Maybe that’s the attitude he’s giving? We do wonder why they never change the line.

 

but I agree, if this info got to management that Gelinas or any other coaches talked, they’d surely be fired. I can see versions of the truth.

 

 I just wish monahan would sit to get healthy if he is injured. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Travel it isnt like she is going and telling the world about this or the media and it is his free time he can tell his friends aslong as they dont got spreading stuff to the media

[sak22]

41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think Baertschi was bad attitude too. Bennett probably hasn’t done enough either. 
 

At the draft Baertschi seemed to be given the keys to the city without working for it. Then, i wonder if giving the taste in the emergency call up sets a bad precedent. A common denominator for both were the stints in the NHL. Baertschi had the 3 game stint with a lot of success and then a lot of entitlement. 
 

then you go Benny, he had a game with 1 assist in 2014/15 and then the 18 year old Sam Bennett playoff... after that, to most, there was no putting him in the minors. I’d hate to assume there’s entitlement there, but it almost seems like he hasn’t worked on his game at all. And I think it’s not all on him nor the team.

 

what I think is, the team needs to determine a development process. It’s not the same for everyone but maybe they could evade these kinds of situations. Something needs to be done differently. I would have put him in the minors if I wanted to develop a C. 

I think Sven's problem was his mental fragility, but to your point he was built up to heights that he probably wasn't going to reach, but probably bought in to the hype.  Once the things started to get hard and criticism grew his confidence went to the toilet, and Bob Hartley is the guy who will destroy you if you are off mentally. 

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Travel it isnt like she is going and telling the world about this or the media and it is his free time he can tell his friends aslong as they dont got spreading stuff to the media

 

And yet, it's on the internet now.  What happens if TSN reads this thread?  They might try to interview that coach.  

I'm not saying she is telling you lies, just that some of it may just be her opinion or filling in the blanks.

 

People are free to talk all they want in their free time, but this is also considered inside information.  You generally don't say things to outsiders unless you have no concerns about that information becomming public.  If it was me and I told a friend, I would tell her to never repeat it to anyone.  I would protect my job first.

[The_Tribal Chief]

like they tsn or sportsnet is coming here lol lol

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, The_Snowbear said:

Travel it isnt like she is going and telling the world about this or the media and it is his free time he can tell his friends aslong as they dont got spreading stuff to the media

Well if you were told in confidence, you broke that trust, which could mean the firing of Gelinas. If you were actually entrusted with that information and you ran to these message boards to air it, well that’s pretty offside in my opinion. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Not me i wasnt told i couldnt say a word it was someone else that was told this they told me they never said i couldnt tell no one cause i would if i was asked not to