WHO ARE THE CALGARY FLAMES???

[robrob74]

The problem lies in that we don't have enough guys to take over in a few years. We need a crop to be ready as soon as this season. Next year will be vital, as Lucic is already showing he can't be here.
 

I like Coleman but don't like the contract for the little offence he brings. 
 

Mangiapane, I hope is having a mental block due to getting a bigger contract and thinking he needs to live up to it, but could be a bust if he doesn't pull up his socks.

 

Dube is starting to look like a player needing a fresh start ala Sam Bennett. 
 

Lindholm might need a reduced role or is being forced into one that is less offensive because his line mates dont resemble last year's line. 
 

Kadri is looking the same as Lindholm in terms of fit on the wings. 
 

I think an unofficial rebuild or off year would be great for the club. Like when teams are middling, miss the playoffs and get lucky at the lottery with a great pick, like some teams have done. Not advocating for injuries but to me it is looking like a good year for it.

 
TMac's post shows we've drafted horribly in the first round. But, Bennett, Tkachuk and Monahan were both really good for a time being. Bennett is good now but we gave up on him and he needed a fresh start, maybe less expectations from being in Florida helps. 
 

We gave up a lot for Hamilton but I guess we got the equivalent of a few first rounders for him in Lindholm and Hanifin...

 

although, imagine if we were able to keep Fox, and we did give up a decent Ferland at the time. Too bad his career shortened, was my favourite player for a bit... 

 

looks like we are scouting depth in the draft players really well, but can't seem to scout first round BPA very well. 
 

to me, it looks like this organization fails to find first round talent in the draft. That needs to change. Has it gotten better with Treliving?

[robrob74]

In thinking further, I'd like to see us look for high end skill in the first round. Safe two way players seem to be what we are looking for and it is beginning to look like bust to me most of the time. 
 

will Pelletier, Zary and Coronato play in the NHL? That is yet to be seen. 
 

looking at our draft history just now and it sure doesn't seem like a very good draft record. 

[robrob74]

Since Backlund, we drafted 13 full time NHL players that are currently playing in the NHL. Of those we have 6 on our current roster.

We traded one of them for two current players. We traded draft picks for Hamilton who netted us Hanifin and Lindholm. Traded a good draft pick for Toffoli. 

Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington, Backlund, Ruzicka

 

guys we lost for nothing:

 

Gaudreau, Bennett (basically), Fox, Valamaki, Brodie, Monahan (plus a 1st for Kadri I guess?), Kulak.

 

 

[sak22]

12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

In thinking further, I'd like to see us look for high end skill in the first round. Safe two way players seem to be what we are looking for and it is beginning to look like bust to me most of the time. 
 

will Pelletier, Zary and Coronato play in the NHL? That is yet to be seen. 
 

looking at our draft history just now and it sure doesn't seem like a very good draft record. 

Who are the gems that we passed on?  Very few studs in the NHL right now that were passed on and Pelletier and Zary are outperforming most in the AHL that they were drafted around.  Hard to get the stars in the mid to late first.

[sak22]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Since Backlund, we drafted 13 full time NHL players that are currently playing in the NHL. Of those we have 6 on our current roster.

We traded one of them for two current players. We traded draft picks for Hamilton who netted us Hanifin and Lindholm. Traded a good draft pick for Toffoli. 

Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington, Backlund, Ruzicka

 

guys we lost for nothing:

 

Gaudreau, Bennett (basically), Fox, Valamaki, Brodie, Monahan (plus a 1st for Kadri I guess?), Kulak.

 

 

Please stop with this, that trade doesn't happen without Fox.  It's not like the Fox trade from Carolina to NY was tremendous for Carolina either.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Since Backlund, we drafted 13 full time NHL players that are currently playing in the NHL. Of those we have 6 on our current roster.

We traded one of them for two current players. We traded draft picks for Hamilton who netted us Hanifin and Lindholm. Traded a good draft pick for Toffoli. 

Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington, Backlund, Ruzicka

 

guys we lost for nothing:

 

Gaudreau, Bennett (basically), Fox, Valamaki, Brodie, Monahan (plus a 1st for Kadri I guess?), Kulak.

 

 

 

I don't want to be too critical, but we had 2 years in a row of Monahan not able to finish a season.

Too late to bring in replacements.

Somebody had to go and not just to sign Kadri.

 

Bennett sucked when he was here, and we traded him for a pick and a prospect.

We used that prospect for Toffoli, so bascially Bennett + for Toffoli.

Valimaki wasn't NHL ready and essentially we had to choose him or Mackey.

In hindsight, waiving Mackey would have made more sense.

But we did clear the difference between Val's salary and Mackey.

We lost Brodie and got Tanev.

Your choice, but Tanev is better defensively.

We lost Gio to the expansion.

Maybe that was a mistake, but it was one that you were handcuffed trying to trade him in his last 2 years.

Gio had the control.

[jjgallow]

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't want to be too critical, but we had 2 years in a row of Monahan not able to finish a season.

 

Happens when the team forgets to give him MRI scans or other basic followup to previous injuries which obviously should have been monitored for the rest of his career.

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Too late to bring in replacements.

Somebody had to go and not just to sign Kadri.

 

How about the GM?

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Bennett sucked when he was here, and we traded him for a pick and a prospect.

 

Players doing better when not here seems to be a recurring theme lately.

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

We used that prospect for Toffoli, so bascially Bennett + for Toffoli.

 

+ a first rounder...

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Valimaki wasn't NHL ready and essentially we had to choose him or Mackey.

In hindsight, waiving Mackey would have made more sense.

 

This also made more sense at all points in time and history.  Can be verified by the incredible shock in here when it happened.

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

But we did clear the difference between Val's salary and Mackey.

 

Is that how they made the decision?  huh

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

We lost Brodie and got Tanev.

 

😕

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Your choice, but Tanev is better defensively.

 

I like Tanev but our D has been depleted.  Markstrom had the one hot year to cover it up.  So that's over now.

 

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

We lost Gio to the expansion.

Maybe that was a mistake, but it was one that you were handcuffed trying to trade him in his last 2 years.

Gio had the control.

 

We failed to trade Gio when he had value, as we did with most everyone else who had value here.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Happens when the team forgets to give him MRI scans or other basic followup to previous injuries which obviously should have been monitored for the rest of his career.

 

 

How about the GM?

 

 

Players doing better when not here seems to be a recurring theme lately.

 

 

+ a first rounder...

 

 

This also made more sense at all points in time and history.  Can be verified by the incredible shock in here when it happened.

 

 

Is that how they made the decision?  huh

 

 

😕

 

 

I like Tanev but our D has been depleted.  Markstrom had the one hot year to cover it up.  So that's over now.

 

 

We failed to trade Gio when he had value, as we did with most everyone else who had value here.

 

All I hear is you saying it's the GM.

Old sthick.

[jjgallow]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All I hear is you saying it's the GM.

Old sthick.

 

says the guy who ran out of Flames players he's comfortable using in his profile

[LouCifer]

To answer the thread question… they’re hard to watch thus far. Lots of individual play, lots of puck watching, lots of bystanders, nary any puck support, a team that looks very very disjointed. Still. 
 

It’s been a tough go this season, for the flames and for us as fans. The off-season was quite the ride - we live in the multiverse version of Earth where we got Huberdeau, Weegar, schwindt, and a first back for Chucky. Quite the haul if you ask me, but It hasn’t lived up to the potential as of yet. 
 

 Living in the eastern timezone, I’ve never had an issue staying up for flames games and posting on the forum… until this season. Maybe I’m just getting old, or maybe it’s just been that hard to watch them this season. I sure hope they turn things around. 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 Living in the eastern timezone, I’ve never had an issue staying up for flames games and posting on the forum… until this season. Maybe I’m just getting old, or maybe it’s just been that hard to watch them this season. I sure hope they turn things around. 

 

There has been little to get excited about so far.  The first 6 games was likely the best and it was bad.

You can see every loss coming a mile away.  The odd comeback, but not like the other team did much.

We seem to be able to feast on goalies struggling, but only some of them.

We bring out the best in the worst.

 

We are missing the players that get on Sutter's nerves.

Creative, East West, offense driven.

We are chock full of player types that just go up and down and look for a chance.

That is what they are being coached to do.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk made the stretch passes that worked some of the time.

Or the risky plays that sometimes create goals.

Blind passes to an area where the other player might sneak into.

Now we just put it into a high traffice area hoping a player gets a shot away.

 

I don't even know why we bother putting Looch out there.

He won't fight.  If he gets pissy, he won't hit.

He may get one good shift a game and the rest is the other guys doing it.

Give me a creative line maybe that has one beef burger out there.

Maybe three guys that can execute a play or a pass.

Dump and chase is only good to burn the clock or if your F can skate.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There has been little to get excited about so far.  The first 6 games was likely the best and it was bad.

You can see every loss coming a mile away.  The odd comeback, but not like the other team did much.

We seem to be able to feast on goalies struggling, but only some of them.

We bring out the best in the worst.

 

We are missing the players that get on Sutter's nerves.

Creative, East West, offense driven.

We are chock full of player types that just go up and down and look for a chance.

That is what they are being coached to do.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk made the stretch passes that worked some of the time.

Or the risky plays that sometimes create goals.

Blind passes to an area where the other player might sneak into.

Now we just put it into a high traffice area hoping a player gets a shot away.

 

I don't even know why we bother putting Looch out there.

He won't fight.  If he gets pissy, he won't hit.

He may get one good shift a game and the rest is the other guys doing it.

Give me a creative line maybe that has one beef burger out there.

Maybe three guys that can execute a play or a pass.

Dump and chase is only good to burn the clock or if your F can skate.

 

the thing about the first 6 games is I saw what I see now. We knew it was going to take time to gel so I tossed it up to that.

 

i predicted we'd be in a wildcard spot for the playoffs. On the day of game one I changed it and predicted that we'd be in the third division spot.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There has been little to get excited about so far.  The first 6 games was likely the best and it was bad.

You can see every loss coming a mile away.  The odd comeback, but not like the other team did much.

We seem to be able to feast on goalies struggling, but only some of them.

We bring out the best in the worst.

 

We are missing the players that get on Sutter's nerves.

Creative, East West, offense driven.

We are chock full of player types that just go up and down and look for a chance.

That is what they are being coached to do.

Gaudreau and Tkachuk made the stretch passes that worked some of the time.

Or the risky plays that sometimes create goals.

Blind passes to an area where the other player might sneak into.

Now we just put it into a high traffice area hoping a player gets a shot away.

 

I don't even know why we bother putting Looch out there.

He won't fight.  If he gets pissy, he won't hit.

He may get one good shift a game and the rest is the other guys doing it.

Give me a creative line maybe that has one beef burger out there.

Maybe three guys that can execute a play or a pass.

Dump and chase is only good to burn the clock or if your F can skate.

 

Hathaway, Ryan, Mangiapane was an awesome line. 
 

I feel like we opted to not sign Hathaway yet decided to sign an expensive version of him in Coleman. Different times but I feel Coleman has been trending an excellent 4th liner that would be great on the 3rd line in a pinch. 

[conundrumed]

Let's not talk about Hathaway...or Lomberg for that matter. Who needs heart and soul guys on such an historically "vibrant" team? /s

[robrob74]

 I don't think they have the right mix. The line make-ups isn't right. Maybe it is Sutter's system with the wrong group? But the team needs to start loading the lines like they did last year. They rode one line and sometimes a 2nd line to a division regular season title. 
 

Fill two lines and then make a good 3rd line of young guys they can coddle a bit until they get used to the NHL. 
 

Trade Toffoli if he has worth. I just feel like we have too many like him. I still think Dube, Toffoli and Mangiapane are the same. If we keep them, separate them all... 

 

Loading lines:

 

Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman/Toffoli

Ruzicka, Dube, Coleman

Lewis, Zahorna, Phillips

Ritchie

 

 

[MP5029]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:37 PM, robrob74 said:

 I don't think they have the right mix. The line make-ups isn't right. Maybe it is Sutter's system with the wrong group? But the team needs to start loading the lines like they did last year. They rode one line and sometimes a 2nd line to a division regular season title. 
 

Fill two lines and then make a good 3rd line of young guys they can coddle a bit until they get used to the NHL. 
 

Trade Toffoli if he has worth. I just feel like we have too many like him. I still think Dube, Toffoli and Mangiapane are the same. If we keep them, separate them all... 

 

Loading lines:

 

Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman/Toffoli

Ruzicka, Dube, Coleman

Lewis, Zahorna, Phillips

Ritchie

 

 

I think I’d try…

 

Hubie/Lindholm/Kadri

 

Manji/Backlund/Toffoil or Dube 

Coleman ornPhillips/Ruzicka/Toffoil or Dube 

 

Lucic or Lewis/ Zohorna/ Phillips or Ritchie or Coleman 

[rickross]

Everybody dropped some very valid points. The Flames still lack the depth and the internal development required to be a true contender. We don’t have enough players with the talent to consistently play at high levels. We work hard and take a ton of shots but that’s about it. We still struggle to score with consistency, with Marky in net we can’t even hold a lead. The depth and talent  amongst our prospects is dwindling again, no true saviours in sight. We’re trending to be another rendition of the middling Flames, not bad but not great. 
 

We don’t have the right mix of players as many of you have stated. I think LouCifer hit the nail on it’s head, overall this team isn’t entertaining. It’s just not as fun to watch them, when they win it’s fine but I’ve yet to feel fully convinced by this team this season. We aren’t even THAT far behind in the standings but my belief just isn’t there this year. The flux of our coaches, players just doesn’t feel right at the moment. It was a tough off season but the team has definitely regressed. It’s not all doom and gloom there have been a few bright spots, such as Vladar stepping up most nights. Who the Flames are still remains to be seen, both now and moving forward.  So far though, this team just ain’t it this year. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, rickross said:

Everybody dropped some very valid points. The Flames still lack the depth and the internal development required to be a true contender. We don’t have enough players with the talent to consistently play at high levels. We work hard and take a ton of shots but that’s about it. We still struggle to score with consistency, with Marky in net we can’t even hold a lead. The depth and talent  amongst our prospects is dwindling again, no true saviours in sight. We’re trending to be another rendition of the middling Flames, not bad but not great. 
 

We don’t have the right mix of players as many of you have stated. I think LouCifer hit the nail on it’s head, overall this team isn’t entertaining. It’s just not as fun to watch them, when they win it’s fine but I’ve yet to feel fully convinced by this team this season. We aren’t even THAT far behind in the standings but my belief just isn’t there this year. The flux of our coaches, players just doesn’t feel right at the moment. It was a tough off season but the team has definitely regressed. It’s not all doom and gloom there have been a few bright spots, such as Vladar stepping up most nights. Who the Flames are still remains to be seen, both now and moving forward.  So far though, this team just ain’t it this year. 

Thats one of the things I dont get. Last nights line up that basically didnt show up against Chicago was almost the same as the line up that easily contained and dictated play against the Bolts. It's the whole Jekyll and Hyde thing that concerns me. Maybe they are working just as hard each game, but it sure doesnt look like it some days.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Thats one of the things I dont get. Last nights line up that basically didnt show up against Chicago was almost the same as the line up that easily contained and dictated play against the Bolts. It's the whole Jekyll and Hyde thing that concerns me. Maybe they are working just as hard each game, but it sure doesnt look like it some days.

I wonder how much is taking certain teams lightly, or how much is it thinking they "got it" after good games and take the foot off the pedal and coast? 
 

I get they sound a bit more cohesive but im a bit like Rickross there where I just don't think they have what it takes this year.

[flames for life]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

Everybody dropped some very valid points. The Flames still lack the depth and the internal development required to be a true contender. We don’t have enough players with the talent to consistently play at high levels. We work hard and take a ton of shots but that’s about it. We still struggle to score with consistency, with Marky in net we can’t even hold a lead. The depth and talent  amongst our prospects is dwindling again, no true saviours in sight. We’re trending to be another rendition of the middling Flames, not bad but not great. 
 

We don’t have the right mix of players as many of you have stated. I think LouCifer hit the nail on it’s head, overall this team isn’t entertaining. It’s just not as fun to watch them, when they win it’s fine but I’ve yet to feel fully convinced by this team this season. We aren’t even THAT far behind in the standings but my belief just isn’t there this year. The flux of our coaches, players just doesn’t feel right at the moment. It was a tough off season but the team has definitely regressed. It’s not all doom and gloom there have been a few bright spots, such as Vladar stepping up most nights. Who the Flames are still remains to be seen, both now and moving forward.  So far though, this team just ain’t it this year. 

Wow!  Sounds identical to comments from 2005 and 2006!  Coincidentally, Sutter coached the team back then as well.

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I wonder how much is taking certain teams lightly, or how much is it thinking they "got it" after good games and take the foot off the pedal and coast? 
 

I get they sound a bit more cohesive but im a bit like Rickross there where I just don't think they have what it takes this year.

 

I really doubt they ever feel that way.  Guys like that were Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

What I don't see is the same emotion every game, which makes sense.

But a slow start to CHI makes it obvious.

We aren't fighting them for a playoff spot.

They can wheel and deal and not worry about it.

We get in a rut and fear making any play that is anything other than safe.

And then we make a mistake on the safe play.

 

This team implodes too easy.

Whether they get frustrated by a goal after a good shift or with the system not producing.

It plays on you.

 

[rickross]

Here’s another way to describe who this team is and has been for years…they are Consistently inconsistent. Bit more of a positive spin…Atleast they’re consistent at something from this perspective 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Here’s another way to describe who this team is and has been for years…they are Consistently inconsistent. Bit more of a positive spin…Atleast they’re consistent at something from this perspective 

I lost track of this thread with all the GDT's in the same area.  This one was started in 2021, just before we saw a coaching change.  I don't know that the change made any difference to the identity, but we had a good season when everyone was having career seasons.  

[conundrumed]

More than irony:

Get excited to add CNRL to the client list. Do 1 job, will never take another CNRL job due to their dangerous incompetence.

Cheer for the Flames, realize CNRL is running the team.

 

[rickross]

It didn’t take long but we are simply an older, slower and less skilled team all over again. We don’t have the right mix of players, hence why we can’t seem to put any effective lines together. The Huberdeau, Weegar and Kadri contracts are already starting to look like cap anchors for this team. Sutter will be around for a couple more years and it appears we are heading towards another retool/rebuild. We’re a middling team once again, IF we even make the playoffs  we’re looking like 1st round exit fodder. This simple dump and chase, high shot volume with low efficiency tactic with a team littered with too many average players isn’t going to work. We simply are not good enough as a team or franchise right now. There is much work to be done here.