WHO ARE THE CALGARY FLAMES???

[robrob74]

54 minutes ago, rickross said:

Not liking this seasons edition of the Flames so far. Pretty much everything everyone is saying about this team is true. I don’t trust what the players say anymore. This team doesn’t play with emotion and are rarely prepared for their opponents. Same song and dance already. Not expecting much from this team anymore and maybe that’s what they deserve is lowered and tempered expectations. They’ve shown nothing to proof they should be considered contenders let alone playoff bound. 

 

and this has been the Flames for years. They like to play from behind. They are the ultimate procrastinators. They need to have a reason to play and it has been this way for years. 
 

I don’t know what to say. I am very all over the place with how I feel. On one hand they have some talented players. On the other they have drive once in a while. Then the lines aren’t necessarily well put together either. It kind of feels like a Satoshi Nakamoto mix. 
 

when the season or the game gets hard, they don’t show up all the time. 

[rickross]

36 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

and this has been the Flames for years. They like to play from behind. They are the ultimate procrastinators. They need to have a reason to play and it has been this way for years. 
 

I don’t know what to say. I am very all over the place with how I feel. On one hand they have some talented players. On the other they have drive once in a while. Then the lines aren’t necessarily well put together either. It kind of feels like a Satoshi Nakamoto mix. 
 

when the season or the game gets hard, they don’t show up all the time. 

That’s our Flames! It’s getting tiring trying to figure out this team on a daily basis, every game is different but the same it seems. I can’t say the Flames have even had a convincing win thus far. You’re bang on with you assessing them as team of parts and not the whole. We have players but no chemistry, we have lines playing with no cohesion. It’s just a bunch of guys skating around with the same jerseys on but no real purpose. You have to wonder how long this yo yo ride continues before real changes have to be made?

[robrob74]

We are not a team that is playing for each other. 
 

Tkachuk is in a world on his own in the team. He is trying to rile up the guys in scrums on his own. No one is sticking up for him.

 

I wanted someone to punch Pearson out. Chirp our goalie, get in our goalies’ face and do nothing. He’s the only one coming to play and the team isn’t showing up for him.

 

is it a product of the blender? There’s no band of brothers, no going into the trenches with each other. If they play with the same guys always, do they grow to care more? I dunno!

 

it’s tough. I just don’t see guys playing for each other and haven’t since the winter break or all star break of the 2018/19 season. But it is getting worse.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

We are not a team that is playing for each other. 
 

Tkachuk is in a world on his own in the team. He is trying to rile up the guys in scrums on his own. No one is sticking up for him.

 

I wanted someone to punch Pearson out. Chirp our goalie, get in our goalies’ face and do nothing. He’s the only one coming to play and the team isn’t showing up for him.

 

is it a product of the blender? There’s no band of brothers, no going into the trenches with each other. If they play with the same guys always, do they grow to care more? I dunno!

 

it’s tough. I just don’t see guys playing for each other and haven’t since the winter break or all star break of the 2018/19 season. But it is getting worse.

 

I guess the mantra from the coach is you start something after the whistle, you finish it yourself.  Perhaps there is some blowback from Gio, but this is dumb.  We are taking way more penalties than every other team we face, yet we are only getting called for ticky tack stuff.  Tkachuk stands up for his team.  Gio puts on a good show.  You would never know he's captain out there.  

 

I have no answers.  Ward has created a rift in the room perhaps.  From what I am seeing as his decisions after games like last night or the previous loss, I really can't figure him out.  There is no identity because he has three ideas he wants us to be.  Maybe we aren't built for Ward hockey.  Who is.  His model was the Bruins?  Not close to that team.

[cross16]

I've said for years that I don't think this is a very strong dressing room so that's not something we should blame on Ward. I know the players keep talking about how great it is and they are so close but for me when you have issues like slow starts and mental collapses that is not coaching. That's leadership and players and players should not want that to happen to each other and if it does they should step in before you ever need a coach to say something. This has been lacking in Calgary for many, many years. I don't think it's fair to point the finger at Gio either. 

 

Looks like Warrener agrees.

 

 

[MP5029]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I've said for years that I don't think this is a very strong dressing room so that's not something we should blame on Ward. I know the players keep talking about how great it is and they are so close but for me when you issues have issues like slow starts and mental collapses that is not coaching. That's leadership and players and players should not want that to happen to each other and if it does they should step in before you ever need a coach to say something. This has been lacking in Calgary for many, many years. I don't think it's fair to point the finger at Gio either. 

 

Looks like Warrener agrees.

 

 

Although yes it is fair to point the fingers at Gio he’s the captain that’s their job 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

Although yes it is fair to point the fingers at Gio he’s the captain that’s their job 

 

No it is not. 

[sak22]

The issue I have with the leadership debate is the thought that it is a one man show.  Change the C and expecting different results.  Nope, leadership is an issue IMO if you struggle finding the best 3 or 4 to put letters on, good teams have 3 or 4 guys who lead without a letter.   Make Tkachuk the C because he stands up  and swears, sorry his effort on the 4th goal was as pathetic as it gets.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The issue I have with the leadership debate is the thought that it is a one man show.  Change the C and expecting different results.  Nope, leadership is an issue IMO if you struggle finding the best 3 or 4 to put letters on, good teams have 3 or 4 guys who lead without a letter.   Make Tkachuk the C because he stands up  and swears, sorry his effort on the 4th goal was as pathetic as it gets.

 

amen. 

 

I'm so tired of this... it was Iginla who wasn't good enough... now it's Gio..... Despite the fact that BOTH won leadership awards and in his book Burke called Gio one of the best leaders he's ever been around. 

 

It is not a one man job and it shouldn't be. The captain in hockey is the most overrated position in all of pro sports to fans. 

[JTech780]

Can't say I disagree with Warrener.

[MP5029]

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No it is not. 

Actually yes it is, they are to lead the team, this is what’s missing...remember Iggy? Mackinnon leads Col..Crosby leads Pits just a few examples, of captains that have and do lead their teams..

 

what’s funny Iggy did the same thing as Gio lead this team and near the end seemed to lose interest in pulling the team forward...I will say Gio did carry this team for a few years but the last two he has not been much of a leader...I’m not blaming him he’s just done is all..I get the sense that Cgy is a hard team to carry as a captain it’s time for a change but not just the captain, the whole of the core.

[JTech780]

 

[MP5029]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Yup 100%

[MP5029]

16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Can't say I disagree with Warrener.

Yup 100% good for Warrener! 

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Actually yes it is, they are to lead the team, this is what’s missing...remember Iggy? Mackinnon leads Col..Crosby leads Pits just a few examples, of captains that have and do lead their teams..

 

what’s funny Iggy did the same thing as Gio lead this team and near the end seemed to lose interest in pulling the team forward...I will say Gio did carry this team for a few years but the last two he has not been much of a leader...I’m not blaming him he’s just done is all..I get the sense that Cgy is a hard team to carry as a captain it’s time for a change but not just the captain, the whole of the core.

MacKinnon isn't Colorado's captain.  

[MP5029]

39 minutes ago, sak22 said:

MacKinnon isn't Colorado's captain.  

Ok whatever he’s an A and Landy is the c but whatever...I’m sure my point must be made regarding if that’s all your pointing out 

[robrob74]

51 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Can't say I disagree with Warrener.

WOW! 
 

when you play it, it keeps looping! I listened to it 4 times 😂 

 

it’s so true! I have thought about this for the last 3-4 years. But 3-4 years ago they chalked it up to being young and learning and lack of experience. The coaches, the management and the players have been making excuses for these guys and it started about 3-5 years ago. It allowed this to perpetuate. I am not sure if others will see the rhetoric as related, but I see it that way. They said it was ok to lose because you’re learning. And then it’s ok because you have a good room. It’s ok because you’re going to have stretches in a season where things don’t go your way. Everything I hear from these guys is all loser mentality. 
 

no more excuses. I don’t want to hear about how you gotta play better, that is stating the obvious. For once I’d like a player to say, “I don’t think we need to talk about this anymore, we gotta just play! We say it, but it isn’t happening out there! It’s time to come to play!” 
 

Some say systems is a bit of a problem, I think Ward is overcoaching the situations. It’s hard to get excited when you are not playing with the same guys. 
 

I know I hated coming to the rink when I had no clue where I was going to play, or who I was playing with. I don’t know if it is similar in higher leagues. I don’t think these guys play for each other because they’re not bonded. Stick lines together and these guys become brothers. 

[JTech780]

That 2015 season might have been the worst thing to happen to this team, the year of the comeback. How many time did they comeback in that season? I think what that young core learned that season, is that they don't have to start on time because they can always just score a couple of goals in the 3rd. 

 

Unfortunately that's not how hockey works, and unfortunately they have never learned how to start on time.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Actually yes it is, they are to lead the team, this is what’s missing...remember Iggy? Mackinnon leads Col..Crosby leads Pits just a few examples, of captains that have and do lead their teams..

 

what’s funny Iggy did the same thing as Gio lead this team and near the end seemed to lose interest in pulling the team forward...I will say Gio did carry this team for a few years but the last two he has not been much of a leader...I’m not blaming him he’s just done is all..I get the sense that Cgy is a hard team to carry as a captain it’s time for a change but not just the captain, the whole of the core.

 

I remember Iggy well and you know what else I remember, having the exact same conversation about him as you are saying about Gio. His leadership was constantly questioned on these boards and not just late in his career but in his prime as well when the Flames were constantly bowing out in the first round (sound familiar?)

 

so was Sidney Crosby a good or a bad leader when his team when his team routinely got bounced in the playoffs and got 2 coaches fired? Is he a good or a bad leader now that his team has gone out in the first round in back to back years and his team currently not in a playoff spot? Was Mackinnon a good or a bad leader when he was Colorado's best player on what was a historically bad team? How were they leading their teams then?

 

This idea that a captain is the holy grail of leadership and fully responsible for the performance of the team is pure crap. Leadership is almost never about 1 person. 

[sak22]

24 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Ok whatever he’s an A and Landy is the c but whatever...I’m sure my point must be made regarding if that’s all your pointing out 

Not really proving your point.  You need leadership from different aspects of the team, not just one or 2 players.  Using Colorado and MacKinnon as examples, don't forget that was a team that hit rock bottom 4 years ago from both individual and team aspects, and they still haven't won yet.

 

22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

That 2015 season might have been the worst thing to happen to this team, the year of the comeback. How many time did they comeback in that season? I think what that young core learned that season, is that they don't have to start on time because they can always just score a couple of goals in the 3rd. 

 

Unfortunately that's not how hockey works, and unfortunately they have never learned how to start on time.

See I don't really believe that too much.  The Gulutzan years I had no faith in a comeback when trailing after 2, whereas they were overall pretty solid at keeping a win while leading after 2.  2015 that team had a -16 goal differential in the first, -14 goal -67 shot differential on the road.  2016 was +2 -(27shot), 2017 -3 (+53 shots), 2018 -4 (+68 shots), 2019 +2 (+88), 2020 -10 (+10 shots), 2021 -7 (-53 shots) (-5 goals at home)(-39 shots at home). So I wouldn't say its been the same story since, we've reverted back to the 2015 horrendous starts but in between the numbers for firsts aren't that bad.  The main similarities I guess are that Hartley was an outdated coach and Ward shouldn't be a head coach. 

[travel_dude]

Okay, so can we get back to what the identity of this team is?

Right now, it seems like a bunch of individuals.

Don't know if the coach is causing this or not.

Whether the team was like this last year and this is a continuation or it has devolved into this.

 

I'm not going to point fingers at Gio on this, only because I don't know what he does for the team.

So, I can't complain about.

Do I hear his comments?

Sure, but they all sound the same after a game.

 

The team was disfunctional to start last season.

Something happened as a result of the loss to the AVS.

It seemed that BP changed the direction and the team has trouble adapting for some reason.

Then he was let go and the new coach had to take over what was left.

Get them back to just playing hockey.

Somewhere between December and October, the team "identity" was changed.

Was that the result of coaching and no buy in?

Hurt feelings and lack of chemistry to start?

 

To date we've played a couple of good games.

That's about it.

And a lot of the things we did well have not carried over to other games.

Call it inconsistent or call it meddling with something that actually worked.

 

[Sobieit]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

This. I just don't see a team of guys who want to win.  I see a couple guys who do, Lindholm, Mang, Tkatchuk, Lucic, Tanev, Markstrom, Rittich.  As a team tho, they are content with a loss.  The best players on any team in any sport I've played on are the guys who hate to lose.  And the more they are losing the better they play.  On this version of the Flames there are not enough guys who hate to lose. 

 

Play the game like you hate to lose and if you're being beaten... you'd better make the other team wish they hadn't won.

[JTech780]

Don't worry everyone they are playing music at practice again, let the winning streak commence.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I agree but only to a certain extent.  

 

At the end of the day, it's a tough league and everybody is trying to win.  To say the team doesn't care is to say we have the talent to go all the way and beat the best of the best as long as the team cares.  We don't.

 

And another thing comes down to X's and O's and we have a failure of a coach who cannot adjust properly and/or, fails to get the guys to play as a team.  He's lucky we have some talent on this team to carry the offense.

[sak22]

52 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Don't worry everyone they are playing music at practice again, let the winning streak commence.

Uncle Kracker to the rescue