WHO ARE THE CALGARY FLAMES???

[LouCifer]

If there’s any truth to the NHL considering shortening the season to 40 games (due to covid related delays), the flames may have already made their bed for this potential once in a lifetime opportunity season. 

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

So this topic is more about identity. I know some belive that this phrase is a term that really has no merit, however I disagree. Everyone everyting has an some form of an idenity whether it be subjective or objective. So we look at last years winners of the cup one could demise that they were a fast well structured skilled team, Dallas was a larger phsycal well structured team, those are Idenities. So when you have people, fans, former players making comments that Calgary has no Identity or lost its idenity is a huge problem. Calgary regardless of the ERA, was a tough building to play in. Hell it was a battle to scrap points out of here and if you did, it was with ice bags and bruises. Now I get hockeys gotten more like a teen age girls pillow fight, howver it doesn't mean we can't be tough to play against. Our idenity subjectively or objectively all points to these points We are a semi skilled poorly structured soft hockey club that belives they can win games because they have been lead to beleive their good. Prove me wrong

 

 

Well said 😊👍

[CheersMan]

6 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So this topic is more about identity. I know some belive that this phrase is a term that really has no merit, however I disagree. Everyone everyting has an some form of an idenity whether it be subjective or objective. So we look at last years winners of the cup one could demise that they were a fast well structured skilled team, Dallas was a larger phsycal well structured team, those are Idenities. So when you have people, fans, former players making comments that Calgary has no Identity or lost its idenity is a huge problem. Calgary regardless of the ERA, was a tough building to play in. Hell it was a battle to scrap points out of here and if you did, it was with ice bags and bruises. Now I get hockeys gotten more like a teen age girls pillow fight, howver it doesn't mean we can't be tough to play against. Our idenity subjectively or objectively all points to these points We are a semi skilled poorly structured soft hockey club that belives they can win games because they have been lead to beleive their good. Prove me wrong

 

 

Only 2 teams make it to the SC finals, they create an identity along the way. The other 28 teams have no identity according to your logic. Why does your identity only show up after a Flames loss? Never see you post anything except to drop a profanity based hammer on the team after every single loss. Maybe you should work on your identity? 

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Only 2 teams make it to the SC finals, they create an identity along the way. The other 28 teams have no identity according to your logic. Why does your identity only show up after a Flames loss? Never see you post anything except to drop a profanity based hammer on the team after every single loss. Maybe you should work on your identity? 

Wow this is definitely not on the mark at all...well the identity part, this team has no identity...back in the day they did, hard working, that’s clearly not the case theses days, which is the bone of contention for most of us over the past several years all we see is lazy no drive or will to win, fans are completely fed up with the excuses by players and the GM saying every trade/FA signing miss didn’t make sense, yet we had O’Neil, Stone oh and then a mistake swap which sticks us with a buyout proof Lucic albatross contract...yet every year we see teams with similar issues finding ways...maybe BT aught to “find a way” to fix some issues then maybe the players can learn from him...I get the feel the take the easy way stems from the top

[tmac70]

7 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Only 2 teams make it to the SC finals, they create an identity along the way. The other 28 teams have no identity according to your logic. Why does your identity only show up after a Flames loss? Never see you post anything except to drop a profanity based hammer on the team after every single loss. Maybe you should work on your identity? 

Hmm, hit a nerve.  You could just skip over them however it is more important to make  make a comment. Hey love the passion your defending the team , and thats exactly what is missing on the ice, some BALLS.. As for doing a consesus of the leagues teams as a whole, why? The whole premise of sports is TO WIN. If winning isnt the most important thing why keep  score. Also, your wrong in that the idenity of a team is not created on the journey to the cup. The description of both those clubs was established well before they entered the playoffs. Secondly, I am not of the mind set generation of " oh you tried, or hey you showed to work, hey thats a gold star. You do not get paid to show up you get paid to do your role. I had a good chin wag with Tim Hunter, Theo, Jeremy Ronick, Clark Gilles and Dave Semenko a few years back, They described todays players as this:. Todays players are pampered privilaged whinny brats. Its hand holding soft talk, and stroking them every day because the can not handle adversity.  

 

There is a HUGE problem inside this organization and denying it doesn't help. From the top down it needs to be corrected, If you like average to minimal effort than this is the perfect club to cheer for. I want to see a cup in Calgary end game, just not make the playoffs is a losing mind set for any orgainization. The if statements from the coaches players and GM just solidify this club is and will flounder till someone creates a vision. From there your vision creates the strategy which will dicatate the mission, our vision is limp into the playoffs and hope, its a system designed to faiil

 

 

[rickross]

Has Geoff Ward ever stated how he wants this team to play? I can’t recall him ever really detailing a philosophy or style of play he wanted to instill. The Flames tend to unravel as the game goes along and we heard the players complain of a lack of team chemistry/cohesion. Sounds like there is no set mentality or frame of mind to this team. Just a bunch of individuals on the ice wearing the same jersey, that’s how they’ve been playing of late IMO. I haven’t heard a Flames locker room mantra in some time. The end of game firefighters helmet for the most workman like effort USED to matter. I don’t really see any of that anymore. This franchise might be suffering from not just one but a multitude of identity issues. 😖

[sak22]

3 minutes ago, rickross said:

Has Geoff Ward ever stated how he wants this team to play? I can’t recall him ever really detailing a philosophy or style of play he wanted to instill. The Flames tend to unravel as the game goes along and we heard the players complain of a lack of team chemistry/cohesion. Sounds like there is no set mentality or frame of mind to this team. Just a bunch of individuals on the ice wearing the same jersey, that’s how they’ve been playing of late IMO. I haven’t heard a Flames locker room mantra in some time. The end of game firefighters helmet for the most workman like effort USED to matter. I don’t really see any of that anymore. This franchise might be suffering from not just one but a multitude of identity issues. 😖

 

 

[robrob74]

15 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Only 2 teams make it to the SC finals, they create an identity along the way. The other 28 teams have no identity according to your logic. Why does your identity only show up after a Flames loss? Never see you post anything except to drop a profanity based hammer on the team after every single loss. Maybe you should work on your identity? 

Am I remembering this wrong, but wasn’t Tmac one of the most positive posters on here until last year? Tmac used to be on here more frequently than now and usually defended the Flames. At least that’s how I remember, maybe I am wrong? 

[robrob74]

Who is Mac now, did they change their handle/username? 
 

if I recall it had been JJ, People, Mac and I as the ones that were the most critical. Everyone else seemed to have a healthy dose of optimism on here. But the team, as we all see it differently, has had whatever reasons for coming out flat or unmotivated and at times very structured and more often than not, unstructured. We all have our opinions as to why this happens. There’s probably variations of truths to all of them. We are all seeing the same product on the ice, but we all see it our own way.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Who is Mac now, did they change their handle/username? 
 

if I recall it had been JJ, People, Mac and I as the ones that were the most critical. Everyone else seemed to have a healthy dose of optimism on here. But the team, as we all see it differently, has had whatever reasons for coming out flat or unmotivated and at times very structured and more often than not, unstructured. We all have our opinions as to why this happens. There’s probably variations of truths to all of them. We are all seeing the same product on the ice, but we all see it our own way.

 

TBH, the original MAC hasn't been on for some time.  They changed to another user, but haven't posted.

Everyone gets a little fed up at times, so I can appreciate that they left and haven't returned.

 

I'm positive except I call out players.  You might call it having a whipping boy, but I just get fed up with certain things.

I rarelt call out Gaudreau, mostly because he is the one bright story we have.

Sure, he's sometimes frustrating to watch, but he is all about winning.

I see frustration in this team, mabifested in different ways.

Some look like they give up on shifts.

Some take it upon themselves to do it all.

 

It's not a cohesive team.  There seems to be some leadership issues.

Is everyone on the same page here?

I don't know if the plans are being lost on the ice in the moment?

Or if the plans don't make sense.

[CheersMan]

6 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Hmm, hit a nerve.  You could just skip over them however it is more important to make  make a comment. Hey love the passion your defending the team , and thats exactly what is missing on the ice, some BALLS.. As for doing a consesus of the leagues teams as a whole, why? The whole premise of sports is TO WIN. If winning isnt the most important thing why keep  score. Also, your wrong in that the idenity of a team is not created on the journey to the cup. The description of both those clubs was established well before they entered the playoffs. Secondly, I am not of the mind set generation of " oh you tried, or hey you showed to work, hey thats a gold star. You do not get paid to show up you get paid to do your role. I had a good chin wag with Tim Hunter, Theo, Jeremy Ronick, Clark Gilles and Dave Semenko a few years back, They described todays players as this:. Todays players are pampered privilaged whinny brats. Its hand holding soft talk, and stroking them every day because the can not handle adversity.  

 

There is a HUGE problem inside this organization and denying it doesn't help. From the top down it needs to be corrected, If you like average to minimal effort than this is the perfect club to cheer for. I want to see a cup in Calgary end game, just not make the playoffs is a losing mind set for any orgainization. The if statements from the coaches players and GM just solidify this club is and will flounder till someone creates a vision. From there your vision creates the strategy which will dicatate the mission, our vision is limp into the playoffs and hope, its a system designed to faiil

 

 

I like your passion as well. We are all here because we want our team to win. Your posts read much better with out the Blockchain in it, and I may have picked the wrong post last evening to address you about it.

 

The game has certainly changed from back in our hay day. The league has shifted from big and strong to small and fast. The league has done their best to remove the physical element out of the game by handing out cheap penalties to those who want to slow the game down. Now we watch smaller faster guys that you can’t touch or step in front of, or you’re penalized. This is the new game, some of it I like, some of it I don’t.

 

Maybe I’m a little more patient than you this season, its still early, we have played the stronger teams in our division thus far. We have added many new players which may need extra time to gel. I know it sounds like excuses but I think things will turn around for this team shortly.

[Heartbreaker]

So, I wasn't sure where to best put this as it's not exactly Flames related, so starting a new thread seemed like the wrong call.

 

I am a peewee (now called U13) coach in Vancouver, and I pick up a lot of drills from Jeremy Weiss. Sadly, he's a die-hard lifelong Leafs fan - but he has a break down from the play-in round last year, and I thought that it was pretty good. It really illustrates what is, in my opinion, the sad reality of the Flames power play. The bump-back pass is so predictable, and I do not understand how the best way to break into the zone includes having four players standing still on the blue line. Totally worth the watch.
 

Love.

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

So, I wasn't sure where to best put this as it's not exactly Flames related, so starting a new thread seemed like the wrong call.

 

I am a peewee (now called U13) coach in Vancouver, and I pick up a lot of drills from Jeremy Weiss. Sadly, he's a die-hard lifelong Leafs fan - but he has a break down from the play-in round last year, and I thought that it was pretty good. It really illustrates what is, in my opinion, the sad reality of the Flames power play. The bump-back pass is so predictable, and I do not understand how the best way to break into the zone includes having four players standing still on the blue line. Totally worth the watch.
 

Love.

 

is there not a way to be weaving / moving a bit more during the drop pass so that they’d have more movement going in?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

So, I wasn't sure where to best put this as it's not exactly Flames related, so starting a new thread seemed like the wrong call.

 

I am a peewee (now called U13) coach in Vancouver, and I pick up a lot of drills from Jeremy Weiss. Sadly, he's a die-hard lifelong Leafs fan - but he has a break down from the play-in round last year, and I thought that it was pretty good. It really illustrates what is, in my opinion, the sad reality of the Flames power play. The bump-back pass is so predictable, and I do not understand how the best way to break into the zone includes having four players standing still on the blue line. Totally worth the watch.

 

Why do the Flames do it when they have two or three good zone entry guys on one unit?

Gaudreau, Lindholm and Ras.

Gaudreau and Ras are skaters and carve up the blueline; Gaudreau is best served if other players gain the zone with him.

Lindy is pretty good at entering on the fly while passing or getting a pass.

 

The bump is so old, and the Flames are actually getting worse at it.

When it has no success, we see the worse play of a dump in without speed.

In and out.

 

Once they are in the zone, they control well, but are passive.

They can whips it around and they can be a lot more active with success.

But we are using Lindholm and Johnny wrong.

Gaudreau is dagerour on the right side.

Lindy could actually get a one-timer from the left.

Much more lethal that way.

Dube's goal the other night is the off wing shot you see that way.

But, I digress

 

[CheersMan]

15 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

So, I wasn't sure where to best put this as it's not exactly Flames related, so starting a new thread seemed like the wrong call.

 

I am a peewee (now called U13) coach in Vancouver, and I pick up a lot of drills from Jeremy Weiss. Sadly, he's a die-hard lifelong Leafs fan - but he has a break down from the play-in round last year, and I thought that it was pretty good. It really illustrates what is, in my opinion, the sad reality of the Flames power play. The bump-back pass is so predictable, and I do not understand how the best way to break into the zone includes having four players standing still on the blue line. Totally worth the watch.
 

Love.

Yes the bump-back pass is predictable and it's sometimes painful to watch especially when Gio does it because that's all he has, but it has a high percentage of success. I see Jeremy has a problem with players standing near still on the blueline but the first 3 video examples he shows were all successful offensive zone entries were they not? They lost the zone after gaining it and it had nothing to do with the bump-back. What you do with the puck after you gain the zone is a different story.

[cross16]

some weird things in that clip. he complains about the lack of speed but then says "since they had the numbers advantage they get the puck in the zone". So he is complaining about a strategy that actually works really well for the situation?

 

that' why I don't get the griping about the bump pack pass. if a team used it heavily in 5 on 5 ya for sure I'd have complaints too but it's a great tool for the PP because it leverages your numbers advantage to create options for the puck carrier. With more teams playing 1-3 across their own blueline is the answer to dump the puck in more? What's the alternative to generating speed facing a 1-3? What do you want to attack with speed and get the puck deep when the idea of a good PP should be to get possession, set up and then use puck movement to exploit your numbers advantage?

 

It's funny because if you watch the very first clip he shows it demonstrates exactly why the bump back is effective to gain the zone. When Tavares gets the puck he has 3 options based on what the PK does. he can chip to Marner, which he does, he can drop back to Reily to set up (PK does a good job to take this away) or he can go cross ice (also taken away). 3 options off of 1 play and the puck is already in the zone. By backing them up with speed the players who are stationary become options to drop the puck back to, or rim around the boards too if the PK decided to be more aggressive. 

 

I think the Flames are very good at the bump back especially when they incorporate the 2 man rush with it. I don't think the Flames PP breaks down due to zone entries, it breaks down to the execution once in the zone and those are 2 separate areas that are not necessarily directly linked. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

some weird things in that clip. he complains about the lack of speed but then says "since they had the numbers advantage they get the puck in the zone". So he is complaining about a strategy that actually works really well for the situation?

 

that' why I don't get the griping about the bump pack pass. if a team used it heavily in 5 on 5 ya for sure I'd have complaints too but it's a great tool for the PP because it leverages your numbers advantage to create options for the puck carrier. With more teams playing 1-3 across their own blueline is the answer to dump the puck in more? What's the alternative to generating speed facing a 1-3? What do you want to attack with speed and get the puck deep when the idea of a good PP should be to get possession, set up and then use puck movement to exploit your numbers advantage?

 

It's funny because if you watch the very first clip he shows it demonstrates exactly why the bump back is effective to gain the zone. When Tavares gets the puck he has 3 options based on what the PK does. he can chip to Marner, which he does, he can drop back to Reily to set up (PK does a good job to take this away) or he can go cross ice (also taken away). 3 options off of 1 play and the puck is already in the zone. By backing them up with speed the players who are stationary become options to drop the puck back to, or rim around the boards too if the PK decided to be more aggressive. 

 

I think the Flames are very good at the bump back especially when they incorporate the 2 man rush with it. I don't think the Flames PP breaks down due to zone entries, it breaks down to the execution once in the zone and those are 2 separate areas that are not necessarily directly linked. 

 

My issue with it is that it puts 3 or 4 skaters standing still.

2 man entry works pretty good.

1 man entry works, but 3 or 4 guys standing still doesn't exactly provide support.

The breakdowns occur a lot of time because we are using one side too much and not moving it fast enough.

Allows the PK to be aggressive. 

[Heartbreaker]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:01 PM, robrob74 said:

is there not a way to be weaving / moving a bit more during the drop pass so that they’d have more movement going in?

 

Maybe, but when you carry it up to the red line, and pass it back to a guy that's at the hash marks in his own end, he's never going to catch up to you before you have to stop anyway.

 

On 2/9/2021 at 11:43 AM, CheersMan said:

Yes the bump-back pass is predictable and it's sometimes painful to watch especially when Gio does it because that's all he has, but it has a high percentage of success. I see Jeremy has a problem with players standing near still on the blueline but the first 3 video examples he shows were all successful offensive zone entries were they not? They lost the zone after gaining it and it had nothing to do with the bump-back. What you do with the puck after you gain the zone is a different story.

 

This is an excellent point, and I agree with you - the examples that Jeremy used were not exceptional, but I'll take him at his word that he only had a portion of the game recorded. It sounds to me like he's pretty frustrated with a play that he sees not working quite regularly. You're right, though. A successful zone entry is the objective, and after that, well, that's something different to work on.

 

On 2/9/2021 at 12:09 PM, cross16 said:

some weird things in that clip. he complains about the lack of speed but then says "since they had the numbers advantage they get the puck in the zone". So he is complaining about a strategy that actually works really well for the situation?

 

that' why I don't get the griping about the bump pack pass. if a team used it heavily in 5 on 5 ya for sure I'd have complaints too but it's a great tool for the PP because it leverages your numbers advantage to create options for the puck carrier. With more teams playing 1-3 across their own blueline is the answer to dump the puck in more? What's the alternative to generating speed facing a 1-3? What do you want to attack with speed and get the puck deep when the idea of a good PP should be to get possession, set up and then use puck movement to exploit your numbers advantage?

 

It's funny because if you watch the very first clip he shows it demonstrates exactly why the bump back is effective to gain the zone. When Tavares gets the puck he has 3 options based on what the PK does. he can chip to Marner, which he does, he can drop back to Reily to set up (PK does a good job to take this away) or he can go cross ice (also taken away). 3 options off of 1 play and the puck is already in the zone. By backing them up with speed the players who are stationary become options to drop the puck back to, or rim around the boards too if the PK decided to be more aggressive. 

 

I think the Flames are very good at the bump back especially when they incorporate the 2 man rush with it. I don't think the Flames PP breaks down due to zone entries, it breaks down to the execution once in the zone and those are 2 separate areas that are not necessarily directly linked. 

 

Yeah, but what about when it doesn't work? What's the next play? I would say that with the Flames, if it's the first unit, they'll try the bump back pass again and again. In the 4-1 loss to Winnipeg, they had two power plays very early, and they couldn't get anything going. A few games before that, I think that it was you that correctly expressed frustration because they were trying to dump it in on the power play, and they were just giving the puck away. If they have no speed on the zone entry, though, how are they supposed to actually retrieve it?

So, I mean, the bump back pass is not "the problem", per se, but it's predictable, and when the other team plays it well, what are the other tools in the set? I remember one game, it may have been against Anaheim a couple years ago where they played it perfectly, and even picked off the pass and scored.

That all said, I totally agree that if it's working, and they lose the zone, that's a separate issue. When it doesn't work, though, they sure are ineffective.

 

On 2/9/2021 at 2:04 PM, travel_dude said:

My issue with it is that it puts 3 or 4 skaters standing still.

2 man entry works pretty good.

1 man entry works, but 3 or 4 guys standing still doesn't exactly provide support.

The breakdowns occur a lot of time because we are using one side too much and not moving it fast enough.

Allows the PK to be aggressive. 

 

Agreed.

 

Sorry it took a few days to reply to this thread. I've had login issues with this site that date back to 2018, so I'm in awhile, and then I'm out awhile.

Love.

[robrob74]

I don’t mind a dump and chase if guys are moving and can get in on the forecheck really quickly. It also opens up for a bit more of a hitting game. 
 

of course you don’t want that on the pp, but can there not be more than one option to try? I noticed they’ve started to use two people back more on the bump back pass. Both Gaudreau and someone else skate up in the zone parallel so I don’t get how that helps if it is turned over. The other player isn’t in a position to defend a guy who steals the pass. 
 

what if they went to closing an umbrella? The second defender is behind Johnny and they bump back instead of skating side by side? I guess the idea is to have numbers at the blue line to outwork the opponents? 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Yeah, but what about when it doesn't work? What's the next play? I would say that with the Flames, if it's the first unit, they'll try the bump back pass again and again. In the 4-1 loss to Winnipeg, they had two power plays very early, and they couldn't get anything going. A few games before that, I think that it was you that correctly expressed frustration because they were trying to dump it in on the power play, and they were just giving the puck away. If they have no speed on the zone entry, though, how are they supposed to actually retrieve it?

So, I mean, the bump back pass is not "the problem", per se, but it's predictable, and when the other team plays it well, what are the other tools in the set? I remember one game, it may have been against Anaheim a couple years ago where they played it perfectly, and even picked off the pass and scored.
 

 

is there a zone entry system that isn't predictable though? Hockey's a pretty simple game after all. 

 

The question i have here though is why is it not working. is it scheme or execution? Technically speaking you are not suppose to get to the point where 3 guys are standing on he blueline, 1 should be moving laterally to help chase the puck down so if it's not working is it for sure the bump pass or was it just not executed well? Most of the errors I see come down to execution. 

 

The backup if it's being defended well is to attack with 2 players in stead of 1. When the bump back is defended well I find it's because it's broken up in the neutral zone. so my counter would be to attached using 2 forwards to generate more speed which should cause the PK to back up at the blueline or spread them out to open up the middle of the ice. 

 

I don't like dumping it in on the PP but sometimes it is a necessary move to change the coverage. Given the PKers are all moving backwards a proper dump should be relatively easy to retrieve for a PP unit. 

[pikey7883]

I’ve tried to be quiet on this as I understand the bump back pass was to counteract the neutral

zone trap. But every time I see a team do it, all I can think of is a bad spin off of the Flying V.

[travel_dude]

I have to ask this because I can't figure out what happened to Matt Tkachuk.

Players only meeting held January 29th.

Quiet in last 2 games.

Hasn;t looked himself since maybe the EDM game?

I haven;t found any post game comments from him since before the game.

Has Gio or others told him to back off?

 

[DirtyDeeds]

To help understand what the Flames are, you also have to look at what they aren't.

 

There are only 3 players with over 20 hits. 

Chucky has 44

Lucic has 39

Bennett has 27.

 

We are not a hitting team and we don't finish our checks.

 

Is it any wonder our play appears soft or uninspired?  We don't hit much.

 

Could this also be a reason why we start games half asleep?

Is it our system that reduces our hits and finishing checks?

All I ever have known is the game to be played properly requires you finish your checks to delay your check from getting into the rush.

 

 

[robrob74]

39 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

To help understand what the Flames are, you also have to look at what they aren't.

 

There are only 3 players with over 20 hits. 

Chucky has 44

Lucic has 39

Bennett has 27.

 

We are not a hitting team and we don't finish our checks.

 

Is it any wonder our play appears soft or uninspired?  We don't hit much.

 

Could this also be a reason why we start games half asleep?

Is it our system that reduces our hits and finishing checks?

All I ever have known is the game to be played properly requires you finish your checks to delay your check from getting into the rush.

 

 

I would add that finishing checks forces the other team think twice or rush things when they have the puck if they see you coming. 

[rickross]

Not liking this seasons edition of the Flames so far. Pretty much everything everyone is saying about this team is true. I don’t trust what the players say anymore. This team doesn’t play with emotion and are rarely prepared for their opponents. Same song and dance already. Not expecting much from this team anymore and maybe that’s what they deserve is lowered and tempered expectations. They’ve shown nothing to proof they should be considered contenders let alone playoff bound.