WHO ARE THE CALGARY FLAMES???

[jjgallow]

I still remember them winning the cup against Montreal, and just being Sooo strong at ever level and position.

 

 

[tmac70]

57 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I still remember them winning the cup against Montreal, and just being Sooo strong at ever level and position.

 

 

 

57 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I still remember them winning the cup against Montreal, and just being Sooo strong at ever level and position.

 

 

Yeah for a few years they were fun to watch. They had depth than this, Theo on the 3rd line. Put thst into perspective that means JG would be our 3rd line winger instead of our 1st. Indicates how lacking in talent we are when you look at it that way. Also our top dman today wouldnt even of made rhe roster 

[jjgallow]

35 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 

Yeah for a few years they were fun to watch. They had depth than this, Theo on the 3rd line. Put thst into perspective that means JG would be our 3rd line winger instead of our 1st. Indicates how lacking in talent we are when you look at it that way. Also our top dman today wouldnt even of made rhe roster 

 

 

 

There's an identity for you lol.

 

Maybe we need to win a few cups before forging an identity like that again.   

 

You're right about the depth.  Granted the whole league is more diluted and there's the arguement about players being faster now I suppose.   

 

Anyway I'd love to get back to that at some point before I forget what it was like.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

 

There's an identity for you lol.

 

Maybe we need to win a few cups before forging an identity like that again.   

 

You're right about the depth.  Granted the whole league is more diluted and there's the arguement about players being faster now I suppose.   

 

Anyway I'd love to get back to that at some point before I forget what it was like.

There were 21 teams back then. If you average 3 top line players, that’s 30 players spread between the 21 teams. Then the 2nd liners. That’s another 30. 60 players divided by 20 teams is essentially 3 extra top 6 players per team, so they would be deeper.
 

It’s crazy, only 5 teams didn’t make the playoffs. There were also teams on a rebuild so some of those extra good players might be on the better teams. 
 

we will now say players are more skilled and faster, but imagine if those guys actually worked on their skills and development more than they did, those really good players would have been just as skilled or better. 

[pikey7883]

I have been as frustrated as any of the fans lately. I put a lot of blame on coaching staff for mismanagement of line combinations and the lack of willingness to adjust, promote, demote and coaching gaffes in the game. Before the game I caught part of Wards interview and he said something like (paraphrased) “we don’t want to dip our toe in the pool to start the game, we want to jump in. And IF we do that and IF we’re ready we will be good”. He said he THINKS that this team will be mentally ready to go. I also caught a snippet of Juliens interview and it sounded like this (paraphrased) “we know that they just lost two good games and are going to come out hungry. we will be aggressive and we will be ready”. 
The difference is in the message, Ward doesn’t take responsibility for the teams mental preparedness or for that matter game planning for a specific team, he says if our team is ready we will do good. Compared to Julien who says we know who we’re playing and WE WILL BE READY. 
 

That being said I also feel like this problem then does fall onto the leadership group of the team who have been subpar this year. That in my mind is Backlund, Giordano, and Monahan. Monahan has been the best of the three, but not great. And I think it came to a head the other night when Tkachuk had the puck flipped at him, and no one came to his rescue, he was willing to take the whole team on and no one really did anything. Then as he is leaving the ice having a meltdown Gio is standing behind him calm and relaxed (which is his personality, I understand that), but in that moment I want him to turn around to the rest of the team and lay into them to say to Tkachuk we got your back and this is no longer acceptable, we are a team. Leaders know when to step up and be vocal and when not to, and Gio has lost it IMO. 
I’m sorry this is such a long post, I’ve been trying to figure out how to voice my displeasure to the only people who sort of listen, lol. The. I saw this clip on sportsnet this morning:

11 years ago when everyone called him Sid the Kid and he was whiny and soft. When his teammate, his Robin to his Batman got levelled. He stepped up and answered the bell. That team went on top win the Stanley cup that year and then two more times, IMO not because they had the best players but because they had the best team with great leadership (which didn’t start with the coaches).

 

[travel_dude]

The team has Tkachuk's back when it makes "political" sense.

Remember when Tkachuk was mauled by Kassian?

Some of the "leaders" said he need to finish what he starts.

You expect anything different when it's less obvious to the players?

Spoiled kid or emotional leader in Tkachuk?

 

I don't expect Monahan to have much emotional displays.

But I want Gio and Backlund to lose it after a loss.

The calm acceptance has to stop. 

[jjgallow]

 

I think we should ease up on the players.

 

These problems have been ongoing here since before many of these players were even with the Flames.   Before they were pro athletes.

 

A partial rebuild gives you a partial team. 

 

Short term decisions give you short term results.

 

 

Remember when we kicked Gilmour out of here for his "bad attitude"?  How did that turn out.   Not that we shouldn't make trades, but, let's not be fooled into thinking trades will solve an attitude problem.     They're for something else.

 

Yeah there's a lack of passion.   The question is why.  I don't think it's the true nature of the players.

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think we should ease up on the players.

 

These problems have been ongoing here since before many of these players were even with the Flames.   Before they were pro athletes.

 

A partial rebuild gives you a partial team. 

 

Short term decisions give you short term results.

 

 

Remember when we kicked Gilmour out of here for his "bad attitude"?  How did that turn out.   Not that we shouldn't make trades, but, let's not be fooled into thinking trades will solve an attitude problem.     They're for something else.

 

Yeah there's a lack of passion.   The question is why.  I don't think it's the true nature of the players.

 

actually, Gilmour was out due to Risebrough and him fighting it out in arbitration. Gilmore asks for something like 750k and riser a lot lower. They awarded Gilmour something in the late 675k or something around there, so Riser lost and felt like a loser. 
 

on a road trip they were in their rooms. Gilmours room was next to Risers. He could hear Riser on the phone saying, “I am gonna trade Gilmour.” And Dougie knew he was getting dealt so he told Rise that he wanted to play for team Canada. Rise dealt him after that. 
 

apparently Dougie told the teammates he was planning on leaving as he overheard Rise was going to trade him anyway. He was already going to be dealt so he put pressure on Rise to trade him.

 

Some are saying it’s across the NHL that this kind of behaviour and play is normal. I think I am being duped and it sounds like it wouldn’t matter what team I would like, I would feel the same way watching other teams. It’s horrible considering how much these guys make... 

 

we are idiots for watching and cheering on this attitude.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

we are idiots for watching and cheering on this attitude.

 

I won't correct you on that lol.

 

But it's always a little bit of both.   What I'm getting at is that Gilmour was underperforming that season.  And fans were noticing.   Many sided with trading him (although nobody could figure out why Leeman).

 

We all lean years later that it was really a management thing.

 

That's what I'm digging at.

[travel_dude]

I'm not really sure what this thread is for.

It started as a discussion about needing to find an identity or at least not having one.

It seems to have turned into the inevitable tank/draft/GM problems/glory days.

Seriously?  We are talking about Sutter or Crisp days?

Maybe we should have a thread about complaints about the Flames for the last 30 years.

Would be a great place to trading Hull or letting MSL walk.

 

[robrob74]

I am kind of on the fence about identity these days. I’d like a team that cares about one another, that plays for each other. Hitting? I like hitting and we aren’t a hitting team, we will hit, but not punish guys. I think it’s more a mirage to say we aren’t small pushovers. 
Skilled, good skill but apparently easy to stop. I would like game breakers, but the team seems outcoached and has a lack of using the skill we do have properly. 
 

it is tough! I’d really just like a team show up most nights for 60... 

[pikey7883]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I'm not really sure what this thread is for.

It started as a discussion about needing to find an identity or at least not having one.

It seems to have turned into the inevitable tank/draft/GM problems/glory days.

Seriously?  We are talking about Sutter or Crisp days?

Maybe we should have a thread about complaints about the Flames for the last 30 years.

Would be a great place to trading Hull or letting MSL walk.

 

Sorry for derailing it. I needed to let some steam off. I’ll always cheer for the flames even when they want to make be throw my beer through the TV. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm not really sure what this thread is for.

It started as a discussion about needing to find an identity or at least not having one.

It seems to have turned into the inevitable tank/draft/GM problems/glory days.

Seriously?  We are talking about Sutter or Crisp days?

Maybe we should have a thread about complaints about the Flames for the last 30 years.

Would be a great place to trading Hull or letting MSL walk.

 

Sorry.   I'll move back to the spectator row for a while here.    Intentions were good.

[rickross]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm not really sure what this thread is for.

It started as a discussion about needing to find an identity or at least not having one.

It seems to have turned into the inevitable tank/draft/GM problems/glory days.

Seriously?  We are talking about Sutter or Crisp days?

Maybe we should have a thread about complaints about the Flames for the last 30 years.

Would be a great place to trading Hull or letting MSL walk.

 

This thread will evolve daily based on the action or inactions of this team. It’s been a pretty fluid convo so far, it’s clear fans are getting fed up with this team. Yes there’s an emphasis on what this team isn’t doing right at the moment but that’s when you get when your team is losing more than it’s winning. This franchise set a standard 30 years ago and they’ve been hard pressed to reach that precedent. This current team is difficult to peg...there’s a lot of great talent on it yet there’s something amiss. Whether it’s emotion , an identity or just basic execution , there’s something critical the Flames have been lacking. I don’t think anyone here is looking forward to another rebuild 

 

[rickross]

11 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

I have been as frustrated as any of the fans lately. I put a lot of blame on coaching staff for mismanagement of line combinations and the lack of willingness to adjust, promote, demote and coaching gaffes in the game. Before the game I caught part of Wards interview and he said something like (paraphrased) “we don’t want to dip our toe in the pool to start the game, we want to jump in. And IF we do that and IF we’re ready we will be good”. He said he THINKS that this team will be mentally ready to go. I also caught a snippet of Juliens interview and it sounded like this (paraphrased) “we know that they just lost two good games and are going to come out hungry. we will be aggressive and we will be ready”. 
The difference is in the message, Ward doesn’t take responsibility for the teams mental preparedness or for that matter game planning for a specific team, he says if our team is ready we will do good. Compared to Julien who says we know who we’re playing and WE WILL BE READY. 
 

That being said I also feel like this problem then does fall onto the leadership group of the team who have been subpar this year. That in my mind is Backlund, Giordano, and Monahan. Monahan has been the best of the three, but not great. And I think it came to a head the other night when Tkachuk had the puck flipped at him, and no one came to his rescue, he was willing to take the whole team on and no one really did anything. Then as he is leaving the ice having a meltdown Gio is standing behind him calm and relaxed (which is his personality, I understand that), but in that moment I want him to turn around to the rest of the team and lay into them to say to Tkachuk we got your back and this is no longer acceptable, we are a team. Leaders know when to step up and be vocal and when not to, and Gio has lost it IMO. 
I’m sorry this is such a long post, I’ve been trying to figure out how to voice my displeasure to the only people who sort of listen, lol. The. I saw this clip on sportsnet this morning:

11 years ago when everyone called him Sid the Kid and he was whiny and soft. When his teammate, his Robin to his Batman got levelled. He stepped up and answered the bell. That team went on top win the Stanley cup that year and then two more times, IMO not because they had the best players but because they had the best team with great leadership (which didn’t start with the coaches).

 

It is weird how the Flames don’t seem to stand up for each other. I noticed the same thing when Tkachuk was fighting , it’s like our players completely disengage when things heat up. Not to harp on the past too much but I’ll give Sutter that...his teams where tough. He used some messed up psychological tactics but it worked...we weren’t ever an easy team to play against and we’re never considered soft. 
 

The fact Monahan is already admitting to a lack of emotion is alarming. This team has been utterly embarrassed 2 years in a row in when it mattered most. The Avs absolutely owned us, western division champs and the Flames couldn’t rise to that occasion. Same thing last year with Dallas, they should have won that series handily but they chose to just lay down and die. Every single time it’s been “We weren’t playing with emotion, we couldnt get up for the game...oh the momentum shifted on us....” Fast forward to 2021, not even 10 games in and Flames are already playing like their disinterested. I can’t believe we are already in do or die mode. Tommorow games against Montreal is a must win. 

[rickross]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I am kind of on the fence about identity these days. I’d like a team that cares about one another, that plays for each other. Hitting? I like hitting and we aren’t a hitting team, we will hit, but not punish guys. I think it’s more a mirage to say we aren’t small pushovers. 
Skilled, good skill but apparently easy to stop. I would like game breakers, but the team seems outcoached and has a lack of using the skill we do have properly. 
 

it is tough! I’d really just like a team show up most nights for 60... 

I think that’s all we ask for! Just play hard every game...If that’s an identity or habit to adopt please instill that ASAP Wardo!! What’s sadly becoming apparent to me is the team has been losing belief in itself. I’m not sure if thats just due to some poor showings or the media wearing on the players but this team struggles with confidence 

[robrob74]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:59 PM, rickross said:

This thread will evolve daily based on the action or inactions of this team. It’s been a pretty fluid convo so far, it’s clear fans are getting fed up with this team. Yes there’s an emphasis on what this team isn’t doing right at the moment but that’s when you get when your team is losing more than it’s winning. This franchise set a standard 30 years ago and they’ve been hard pressed to reach that precedent. This current team is difficult to peg...there’s a lot of great talent on it yet there’s something amiss. Whether it’s emotion , an identity or just basic execution , there’s something critical the Flames have been lacking. I don’t think anyone here is looking forward to another rebuild 

 

I am, but not if they’re going to fast track it and end up with a half Hash Rate team again.

[rickross]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I am, but not if they’re going to fast track it and end up with a half Hash Rate team again.

This is my worry! Another rush job rebuild ..they won’t even call it that. More of a retooling because management will mandate a competitive playoff team with things will only get tougher with Seattle incoming not to mention our new arena!

[cross16]

wanting another rebuild is very much a be careful what you wish for proposition with this club. If you are wanting a rebuild that takes it’s time and is ok with 3 or more losing seasons then I wouldn’t hold your breath. It’s not going to happen so long as Murray Edwards is running the flames. 

[rickross]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

wanting another rebuild is very much a be careful what you wish for proposition with this club. If you are wanting a rebuild that takes it’s time and is ok with 3 or more losing seasons then I wouldn’t hold your breath. It’s not going to happen so long as Murray Edwards is running the flames. 

I’m starting to think they might use the new arena as the next catalyst for a rebuild. If Flames aren’t legitimate contenders by then, why not do a full reset? You have your goalie in Markstrom, maybe future goalie in Wolf. Good mentorship opportunity there. Lindholm, Tkachuk, Dube, Mangiapane at forward. Hanifin, Valimaki , Andersson as you D. Young core with an experienced goalie. That’s a pretty solid foundation if they chose to go that route. 

[The_People1]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:07 AM, pikey7883 said:

That being said I also feel like this problem then does fall onto the leadership group of the team who have been subpar this year. That in my mind is Backlund, Giordano, and Monahan. Monahan has been the best of the three, but not great. And I think it came to a head the other night when Tkachuk had the puck flipped at him, and no one came to his rescue, he was willing to take the whole team on and no one really did anything. Then as he is leaving the ice having a meltdown Gio is standing behind him calm and relaxed (which is his personality, I understand that), but in that moment I want him to turn around to the rest of the team and lay into them to say to Tkachuk we got your back and this is no longer acceptable, we are a team. Leaders know when to step up and be vocal and when not to, and Gio has lost it IMO.

 

I was disappointed by our reaction on the Muzzin incident as well.  Since halfway into last season, Tkachuk has become our best player and that clearly hasn't sank in with the rest of the team.  It hasn't sank in with Monahan and Giordano. If your best player gets pissed off like that, then you have to step up for him.  That's pretty much the end of story.

 

Maybe no one saw what happened so they didn't get why Tkachuk was so upset.

Maybe they thought Tkachuk was just doing a performance, again.

 

But whatever.  As a teammate, you should defend your teammates and have their back.

 

I get we had like Gaudreau and maybe Mangiapane/Backlund as the extra attacker on the ice and if those smaller players don't fight, then okay fine... Giordano and Andersson aren't bruising heavy weights either.  but maybe Monahan should've lost his cool just for the sake of it.  Just for the message.  Just to prove a point.  But no.  Nothing. 

 

Tkachuk left the ice fuming and slamming the door shut.  went back to check the door to make sure the door closed... on the rest of his teammates who were still on the ice.  

[sak22]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

I’m starting to think they might use the new arena as the next catalyst for a rebuild. If Flames aren’t legitimate contenders by then, why not do a full reset? You have your goalie in Markstrom, maybe future goalie in Wolf. Good mentorship opportunity there. Lindholm, Tkachuk, Dube, Mangiapane at forward. Hanifin, Valimaki , Andersson as you D. Young core with an experienced goalie. That’s a pretty solid foundation if they chose to go that route. 

That is still a core that keeps you competitive, if the goal is we need to be bad then we are still a middle of the road team with all those pieces.  The complaint that the last rebuild was expedited I find still troubling, it wasn't Brouwer, Bollig, Raymond, or Engelland, that did anything to turn the page, the goaltending additions may have helped a little, Dougie Hamilton was still a developing player when acquired.  It was really the pieces in place that helped turn the corner quickly, Gio went from a solid top 4 guy to perennial All-Star and Norris nominee right from the start, Brodie developed nicely, Backlund improved every year, Monahan was a 30 goal scorer in 2 years, and Gaudreau was a ppg player by year 2.  Those IMO are the key factors that made for quicker results than anything else.

 

If you want different results in a rebuild this time you need to do a deeper tear down.  And the pieces you list as building blocks bring more value right now in a trade than Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano, Backlund and Bennett.

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I was disappointed by our reaction on the Muzzin incident as well.  Since halfway into last season, Tkachuk has become our best player and that clearly hasn't sank in with the rest of the team.  It hasn't sank in with Monahan and Giordano. If your best player gets pissed off like that, then you have to step up for him.  That's pretty much the end of story.

 

Maybe no one saw what happened so they didn't get why Tkachuk was so upset.

Maybe they thought Tkachuk was just doing a performance, again.

 

But whatever.  As a teammate, you should defend your teammates and have their back.

 

I get we had like Gaudreau and maybe Mangiapane/Backlund as the extra attacker on the ice and if those smaller players don't fight, then okay fine... Giordano and Andersson aren't bruising heavy weights either.  but maybe Monahan should've lost his cool just for the sake of it.  Just for the message.  Just to prove a point.  But no.  Nothing. 

 

Tkachuk left the ice fuming and slamming the door shut.  went back to check the door to make sure the door closed... on the rest of his teammates who were still on the ice.  

I actually forgot that they were playing the Canadiens the second game. They should’ve came harder at them knowing they were playing that next game to send a message that they’ll be up for it. The two goals they scored were gifts that made that game look more respectable, which was really flattering the score. 
 

I could see why they started Allen the next game and wasn’t a terrible idea. He played well and gave them a chance, but they couldn’t beat Marky.

[LouCifer]

I think it’s time to change who’s wearing letters on their jerseys. 
 

I’ve been hoping for Gio to do what Conroy did for Iginla, and give the captaincy to Chucky. 
 

One year in rep hockey my coach stripped all of the captains on our team of their letters. He gave them to the players he saw working their butt off and giving a crap. Wouldn’t you know it? We went on a tear after that and made it to the finals. We lost there, but getting a letter on my jersey and changing the trajectory of our team that year was incredible to behold. Maybe that’s the shakeup this team needs, and given the circumstances, it may be one of the easier ones to do. 
 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, lou44291 said:

I think it’s time to change who’s wearing letters on their jerseys. 
 

I’ve been hoping for Gio to do what Conroy did for Iginla, and give the captaincy to Chucky. 
 

One year in rep hockey my coach stripped all of the captains on our team of their letters. He gave them to the players he saw working their butt off and giving a crap. Wouldn’t you know it? We went on a tear after that and made it to the finals. We lost there, but getting a letter on my jersey and changing the trajectory of our team that year was incredible to behold. Maybe that’s the shakeup this team needs, and given the circumstances, it may be one of the easier ones to do. 
 

 

Matt Tka"C"huk

Rasmus "A"ndersson

Eli"A"s Lindholm.