Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[robrob74]

I think our problem with Mange is we've had too many similar players. I'd like him with guys who are bigger and find room. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

On 4/24/2024 at 2:44 PM, conundrumed said:

Nope. We shouldn't. 35 in a contract year, everything else a struggle to 20. Go figure. Hate to inflate size, but someone who can handle playing like he does. To be more punisher than punishee.

I do like Mangiapane, he plays an honest hard-working game. His size defies him quite a bit, and he overcomes that as well as he can.

I agree with you, and not just Backlund. Mangiapane gets open in the high slot quite a bit. He rarely gets the puck, though. He floats just above the dmen and gets to that sweetspot area between the fwds and dmen.  He's good at it. He rarely gets the puck though. 20% on a good day, maybe? Unless it's a contract year, apparently.

What I mean is, I don't mind Mangiapane at all. He's just too small for bottom 6. He's not quite skilled enough to be an impact player on Line 2. He probably could, riding with a good pair. Like he does with Backlund and Coleman.

But he needed a better pairing than Kadri-Dube. He's the ride-along.

If I were, say Chicago, and we could do my 4th best prospect and a 4th, we might have a deal.

Mangiapane's a good NHLer, we just don't have the parts to accommodate his secondary role, imho.

 

When I say similar, I don't mean size and style and salary.  I mean someone who is struggling on another team, perhaps getting 4th lineplay and isn't makeing a tonne of money.  Struggling because the team isn't built for the type of player they are, bigger, good on the rush, etc.  Let's say plays bottom 6 and is paid for that.  On the right team would score 20.  Doesn't spend most of the time on his backside.  

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

On 4/24/2024 at 3:35 PM, conundrumed said:

I get what you're saying, but you've got to do better than that. He has history in the league that's more worth than a fifth.

We shouldn't be having to give him away. Losing trades, just because, shouldn't be on the agenda. Some form of decent prospect and a 5th. But just a 5th? That's horrible asset mgmt. Develop players, give them away. It haunts us a bit.

 

I was thinking Dellandrea, who isn't really getting top 6 duty.

Not my first choicem but better than giving Mange away.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was thinking Dellandrea, who isn't really getting top 6 duty.

Not my first choicem but better than giving Mange away.

Dallas has cost control on a developing prospect, vs a 3rd liner at $5.8. Can't see it working out. @cross16 likely correct. Mangiapane has become a salary dump. Painful, but probably true. Also murmurs of his unhappiness, as ironic as that sounds.

Some days, my hopes exceed reality. Hate to see so much time invested turn into such promise and then come crashing down. At the end of the day, we have...hmmm, let's see, do the math...carry the 1 over....okay. Zero large, physical wingers. Coleman the only one that's close. Leading scorer...imagine that!

Maybe $5.8 can buy one?

edit

Okay, Pospisil. He's making inroads being one. He's kinda proving what we lack.

[cberg]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Dallas has cost control on a developing prospect, vs a 3rd liner at $5.8. Can't see it working out. @cross16 likely correct. Mangiapane has become a salary dump. Painful, but probably true. Also murmurs of his unhappiness, as ironic as that sounds.

Some days, my hopes exceed reality. Hate to see so much time invested turn into such promise and then come crashing down. At the end of the day, we have...hmmm, let's see, do the math...carry the 1 over....okay. Zero large, physical wingers. Coleman the only one that's close. Leading scorer...imagine that!

Maybe $5.8 can buy one?

edit

Okay, Pospisil. He's making inroads being one. He's kinda proving what we lack.

Glad you're having fun in the comments.  Much needed these days.  Crappy, politicized TV got me  rewatching old Clarkson auto shows and RedGreen.  I agree we need to do a remix and Mangiapanne likely needs to move out.  Last year's draft a start and we'll see how it develops this June.  Coleman loves being here and he's producing and a great mentor so I'd keep him, and Pospisil is a revelation, hopefully he'll be able to maintain health for many years to come.  I think Conroy views things the same way, and some of the trades this past season address size, while still keeping focus on skill.  It will be interesting to see how our current UFAs are handled, since between rising salary cap and Flame's current cap space, it could go many ways.  

[cross16]

On 4/24/2024 at 3:35 PM, conundrumed said:

I get what you're saying, but you've got to do better than that. He has history in the league that's more worth than a fifth.

We shouldn't be having to give him away. Losing trades, just because, shouldn't be on the agenda. Some form of decent prospect and a 5th. But just a 5th? That's horrible asset mgmt. Develop players, give them away. It haunts us a bit.

 

I dont disagree and the 5th rounder is probably not accurate, it was to prove a point. I do think you get more. 

 

I just think the value to the Flames is the ice time and development spot alongside Backlund. I think there is value in that that offsets some of the loss of value by perhaps dealing him now and not at the TDL. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Dallas has cost control on a developing prospect, vs a 3rd liner at $5.8. Can't see it working out. @cross16 likely correct. Mangiapane has become a salary dump. Painful, but probably true. Also murmurs of his unhappiness, as ironic as that sounds.

Some days, my hopes exceed reality. Hate to see so much time invested turn into such promise and then come crashing down. At the end of the day, we have...hmmm, let's see, do the math...carry the 1 over....okay. Zero large, physical wingers. Coleman the only one that's close. Leading scorer...imagine that!

Maybe $5.8 can buy one?

edit

Okay, Pospisil. He's making inroads being one. He's kinda proving what we lack.

May not be true, but it seems we usually only ever have had one since the rebuild started after iggy was traded. It seems to be a weakness the org has had in scouting. 
 

We had to sign plugs, like Bollig, and others who seemed like their role was the enforcer, which was why I think we got England. 
 

i was at the game he fought two or three Canucks at once, was so fun!

 

 But I think we've relegated one or two to the role as a second or third thought instead of it being a drafting mantra. Guys we can sign instead of making it part of team building through the draft.m

although, we did draft Ferland and Posposil. 

[Thebrewcrew]

960 had the Duclair conversation for about the 30th time this past week week.

 

I found it funny because the day before they asked "do the Flames have too many wingers"? Yes. Then the following day they talk about adding a winger. 

 

It's obviously due to Huberdeau. He needs to be better, I really don't believe Duclair is the one to get him going again. Nothing against Duclair, he's a good player that you can count on for 40pts a year. The Flames have a bunch of players just like that though. 

 

I think the Flames need to have Pelletier and Coronato as full time NHLers.  Pelletier becomes waiver eligible soon. You either give him a spot or you include him in a package for a D this summer IMO. 

Huberdeau/Sharangovich/Mangiapane/Coleman/Pospisil/Coronato/Pelletier/Kuzmenko. That's 8 right there, Hunt and Duehr figure to be in the mix as well. I just don't really see where Duclair fits. I'm not sure that retaining on Mangiapane just to make a spot for Duclair makes a ton of sense. I think the production would be the same.

[cberg]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

May not be true, but it seems we usually only ever have had one since the rebuild started after iggy was traded. It seems to be a weakness the org has had in scouting. 
 

We had to sign plugs, like Bollig, and others who seemed like their role was the enforcer, which was why I think we got England. 
 

i was at the game he fought two or three Canucks at once, was so fun!

 

 But I think we've relegated one or two to the role as a second or third thought instead of it being a drafting mantra. Guys we can sign instead of making it part of team building through the draft.m

although, we did draft Ferland and Posposil. 

Both Ferland and Pospisil were a combination of functional toughness and skill.  We need more of that.  Would Jeannot out of Tampa be a possible trade target?

[cberg]

25 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

960 had the Duclair conversation for about the 30th time this past week week.

 

I found it funny because the day before they asked "do the Flames have too many wingers"? Yes. Then the following day they talk about adding a winger. 

 

It's obviously due to Huberdeau. He needs to be better, I really don't believe Duclair is the one to get him going again. Nothing against Duclair, he's a good player that you can count on for 40pts a year. The Flames have a bunch of players just like that though. 

 

I think the Flames need to have Pelletier and Coronato as full time NHLers.  Pelletier becomes waiver eligible soon. You either give him a spot or you include him in a package for a D this summer IMO. 

Huberdeau/Sharangovich/Mangiapane/Coleman/Pospisil/Coronato/Pelletier/Kuzmenko. That's 8 right there, Hunt and Duehr figure to be in the mix as well. I just don't really see where Duclair fits. I'm not sure that retaining on Mangiapane just to make a spot for Duclair makes a ton of sense. I think the production would be the same.

Huberdeau seemed to come to life once 2024 hit, Flames should continue to build on that.  I also wonder if there is any potential on trading him to Montreal?

[robrob74]

I wonder how much play style has to do with Huberdeau? The west isn't the east, and do the flames play his style of game?

[cross16]

On 4/28/2024 at 1:51 PM, robrob74 said:

I wonder how much play style has to do with Huberdeau? The west isn't the east, and do the flames play his style of game?

 

70/30. I think there are adjustments Huberdeau can make in his game I do think the way he played Jan 1 on is about as good as your going to get within the Flames system.  At 5 on5 he was a top 50 players in things like assists, first assist and individual point production (in the league). His chance creation numbers were very good as well, not elite but good. 

 

I think if you want more the Flames are going to need to change he way they play. Someone with chemistry would help but I think style of play if the bigger issue for me. Your not going to have too many forwards put up career years here within the Flames system. 

[The_People1]

Is there some kind of cap dump trade we can do with another team for Huberdeau?   Both teams trade to help a struggling player have a change of scenery?

 

If FLA loses Reinhart this summer, then can the Flames trade Huberdeau to FLA? Maybe for Spencer Knight who is stuffed in the minors and dealing with substance abuse or whatever it was he's dealing with?  The Flames maybe retain $1-mil-per.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Is there some kind of cap dump trade we can do with another team for Huberdeau?   Both teams trade to help a struggling player have a change of scenery?

 

If FLA loses Reinhart this summer, then can the Flames trade Huberdeau to FLA? Maybe for Spencer Knight who is stuffed in the minors and dealing with substance abuse or whatever it was he's dealing with?  The Flames maybe retain $1-mil-per.

 

Would you acquire that contract?

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Is there some kind of cap dump trade we can do with another team for Huberdeau?   Both teams trade to help a struggling player have a change of scenery?

 

If FLA loses Reinhart this summer, then can the Flames trade Huberdeau to FLA? Maybe for Spencer Knight who is stuffed in the minors and dealing with substance abuse or whatever it was he's dealing with?  The Flames maybe retain $1-mil-per.

Maybe LA would move Dubois for him, but don’t think the players would both accept it.

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Would you acquire that contract?

 

 

I assume you mean would FLA acquire Huberdeau's contract?

 

FLA is win-now... Huberdeau put up 100+ points with them recently... 80-ish on average.  IF any team can get Huberdeau back on track, then it would be FLA.  Sam Bennett is still there, etc.  Huberdeau is getting paid $10.5-mil but putting up $5-mil worth of numbers... Spencer Knight is $3.5-mil dead cap space... Can both teams come together in the middle?

 

Short answer, no.  Nobody should... but so, Flames retain and modify that contract for FLA.  Or better yet, what's the number you think FLA would do it?  Flames retain $3-mil-per??  (better than a buyout right?)

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Maybe LA would move Dubois for him, but don’t think the players would both accept it.

 

Yuck!  But that's exactly the type of deal i'm talking about.  

 

Both 7-years remaining at,

$8.5-mil for PLD

$10.5-mil for Huberdeau

[Sarasti]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

I assume you mean would FLA acquire Huberdeau's contract?

 

FLA is win-now... Huberdeau put up 100+ points with them recently... 80-ish on average.  IF any team can get Huberdeau back on track, then it would be FLA.  Sam Bennett is still there, etc.  Huberdeau is getting paid $10.5-mil but putting up $5-mil worth of numbers... Spencer Knight is $3.5-mil dead cap space... Can both teams come together in the middle?

 

Short answer, no.  Nobody should... but so, Flames retain and modify that contract for FLA.  Or better yet, what's the number you think FLA would do it?  Flames retain $3-mil-per??  (better than a buyout right?)

 

Better, yeah. Not by much though.

I think we are stuck with Huberdeau for awhile and we're going to have to hope he pulls a Jeff Skinner and snaps himself out of whatever it is thats dogging him mentally.

He seemed a lot more at ease when 2024 hit. I just hope he builds on that in the new season.

[cross16]

24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I assume you mean would FLA acquire Huberdeau's contract?

 

FLA is win-now... Huberdeau put up 100+ points with them recently... 80-ish on average.  IF any team can get Huberdeau back on track, then it would be FLA.  Sam Bennett is still there, etc.  Huberdeau is getting paid $10.5-mil but putting up $5-mil worth of numbers... Spencer Knight is $3.5-mil dead cap space... Can both teams come together in the middle?

 

Short answer, no.  Nobody should... but so, Flames retain and modify that contract for FLA.  Or better yet, what's the number you think FLA would do it?  Flames retain $3-mil-per??  (better than a buyout right?)

 

 

No, would you.  Personally before I look to see if a team would do it I would ask myself would I. If the answer is pretty obvious to you why isn't it to the team.

 

I don't see a scenario where he is dealt personally. I don't think Florida can afford him and I don't think they wanted to pay him, which is why they moved him in the first place. 

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

No, would you.  Personally before I look to see if a team would do it I would ask myself would I. If the answer is pretty obvious to you why isn't it to the team.

 

I don't see a scenario where he is dealt personally. I don't think Florida can afford him and I don't think they wanted to pay him, which is why they moved him in the first place. 

 

I would consider Gaudreau coming back at $7-mil-per if CBJ would take Mangiapange off our hands... that type of thing.

 

We give back Huberdeau at $7-mil-per and we absorb a cap dump (in this case Knight).  Again, Huberdeau is still a $5-mil level player currently.  If he goes back to FLA, he might return to $9-mil output.

[robrob74]

Eric from the Athletic mentions Detroit might be in the market for a goalie. He suggested that Jersey might reengage talks on Markstrom, but if those don't garner results, could Detroit be interested in our Goalie? 
 

he suggested Husso and a first could do it. But the flames prefer getting a center in any Markstrom trade. 
 

begs to question, which center is out there that can aid a Markstrom return?

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Eric from the Athletic mentions Detroit might be in the market for a goalie. He suggested that Jersey might reengage talks on Markstrom, but if those don't garner results, could Detroit be interested in our Goalie? 
 

he suggested Husso and a first could do it. But the flames prefer getting a center in any Markstrom trade. 
 

begs to question, which center is out there that can aid a Markstrom return?

 

That would be a great trade.  Husso is an upgrade to Vladar.  That 15th overall pick could do some damage for us.  I would love the NJD or BUF 10/11 picks because that's Tij territory... but something good could fall to 15th.  Perhaps Yakemchuk or Jiricek is still there at 15.  If not, then Greentree or Connelly... Hage, Sennecke, etc.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That would be a great trade.  Husso is an upgrade to Vladar.  That 15th overall pick could do some damage for us.  I would love the NJD or BUF 10/11 picks because that's Tij territory... but something good could fall to 15th.  Perhaps Yakemchuk or Jiricek is still there at 15.  If not, then Greentree or Connelly... Hage, Sennecke, etc.

we'd have to trade Vladar as well or buy him in the A

[Thebrewcrew]

Who wants a laugh?

 

 

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Who wants a laugh?

 

 

 

One of the worst I've ever seen.

 

Krebs one year too late.  Last year he still had hope.  This year, he's a proven bust as far as I'm concerned.  He's behind Zary at Center and behind a whole bunch more on LW.  Flames don't have room for him.

 

Rosen is interesting.  LHS RW.  Still has some promise but I don't think the Flames have a need here considering Coronato has comparable potential and need the ice time next season.