Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[travel_dude]

Issues with previous thread disappearing.

[travel_dude]

In an interview with Francis, Markstrom suggested that the decision on what to do with Markstroim rests with the Flames.

That doesn't sound like someone unwilling to waive his NMC.  But we have also heard that Flames won't ask unless solid lead.

I am a bit betwixt and between on this one.

 

One one hand, trading an expensive starter could benefit the team for years to come.

We gain a ton of cap space and whatever assets we get in the trade.

We could bring up Wolf and get him ready to be the starter a lot sooner than later.

The losses might pile up, but this is a good year to toss, since we have already lost 1C.

We actually see what Wolf is capable of, and possibly what Vladar really is.

This year he hasn't looked great.

 

On the other hand, we spent years looking for a starter after Kipper.

Only recently have we found one that we liked enough to run longer than a season or two.

Wolf may be part of the solution, but it might be a long wait to have him as a true starter.

Losing sucks the life out of teams.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

25 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

In an interview with Francis, Markstrom suggested that the decision on what to do with Markstroim rests with the Flames.

That doesn't sound like someone unwilling to waive his NMC.  But we have also heard that Flames won't ask unless solid lead.

I am a bit betwixt and between on this one.

 

One one hand, trading an expensive starter could benefit the team for years to come.

We gain a ton of cap space and whatever assets we get in the trade.

We could bring up Wolf and get him ready to be the starter a lot sooner than later.

The losses might pile up, but this is a good year to toss, since we have already lost 1C.

We actually see what Wolf is capable of, and possibly what Vladar really is.

This year he hasn't looked great.

 

On the other hand, we spent years looking for a starter after Kipper.

Only recently have we found one that we liked enough to run longer than a season or two.

Wolf may be part of the solution, but it might be a long wait to have him as a true starter.

Losing sucks the life out of teams.

Ramo, Berra, MacDonald, Hiller, Backstrom, Elliot, Johnson, Gillies, Rittich, Smith, Lack, Talbot.  I remember alot of anger/frustration over the goalie carousel.  Sure sometimes Marky can be a exercise in patience and exasperation but it still beats the alternative. IF youre comfortable with the potential return of the carousel and an offer cant be beat then you gotta deal him.  Every roster player needs to know what the expectations are going to be for the near future and let them decide if theyre on board.  At this point everyone is expendable.

[JTech780]

Goalies don’t generally generate huge returns in trades, combine that with Markstrom’s age and contract and I just don’t see the Flames getting a return that is worth it.

 

They are better off having a reliable starter and vet between the pipes while they go through the retool and to help mentor Wolf when he comes up.

[JTech780]

Sounds like Conroy has received offers of a 2nd for Tanev, but he is holding out for a 1st. With the amount of teams that have interest in Tanev, I could see them possibly get a 1st, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being a 2nd and a 3rd/4th.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Goalies don’t generally generate huge returns in trades, combine that with Markstrom’s age and contract and I just don’t see the Flames getting a return that is worth it.

 

They are better off having a reliable starter and vet between the pipes while they go through the retool and to help mentor Wolf when he comes up.

 

I doubt they really are even looking at it this year.  Maybe if the offer was too good to pass up they would.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Sounds like Conroy has received offers of a 2nd for Tanev, but he is holding out for a 1st. With the amount of teams that have interest in Tanev, I could see them possibly get a 1st, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up being a 2nd and a 3rd/4th.

A 2nd by itself is nothing (obviously not the Leafs) unless it's from a team like CBJ or such; even then it's meh.

A 2nd and a top prospect would be closer to the value we SHOULD expect.

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

In an interview with Francis, Markstrom suggested that the decision on what to do with Markstroim rests with the Flames.

That doesn't sound like someone unwilling to waive his NMC.  But we have also heard that Flames won't ask unless solid lead.

I am a bit betwixt and between on this one.

 

One one hand, trading an expensive starter could benefit the team for years to come.

We gain a ton of cap space and whatever assets we get in the trade.

We could bring up Wolf and get him ready to be the starter a lot sooner than later.

The losses might pile up, but this is a good year to toss, since we have already lost 1C.

We actually see what Wolf is capable of, and possibly what Vladar really is.

This year he hasn't looked great.

 

On the other hand, we spent years looking for a starter after Kipper.

Only recently have we found one that we liked enough to run longer than a season or two.

Wolf may be part of the solution, but it might be a long wait to have him as a true starter.

Losing sucks the life out of teams.

 

 

I am not too betwixt (myself), I really think the Flames are trying to be as respectful as possible, and listening to offers, and just let everyone know that the only way Conroy would consider asking is if the deal would be too good to pass up for the Flames. I like his approach, and I think it's on par for some teams. I think if a good deal comes, that's great, but it's super hard to know whether Wolf is going to be a starter or backup or part of a duo that splits the games, so I get what you're saying. 

 

Problem with next year is that that first round pick that Montreal could have. Deeds shared that bit about all of the mathematical options that Montreal could get our pick by. It sure looks like they can get even our #2 overall if it happened that way, which is so concerning and idiotic by BT to agree to it.

[cross16]

I’m with Jtech. Despite what some say/report I see trading Markstrom as difficult. In addition to what Jtech said I think the NMc is challenging because I don’t think Markstrom will go just anywhere. So the flames have to get an offer that they like enough to be ok with moving him, on with the idea of having potentially really bad goaltending, and from a place they think makes sense for Markstrom

 

good luck. 

[LouCifer]

Hmmm. I don’t know if I agree with everyone on the Markstrom front. Just the candidness of his interview tells me there are scenarios and/or teams he’d be willing to go to, making a trade within the realm of possibility. As for the return, we could potentially get more in a summer swap, but I also think about the team that trades for him. They’ll likely have to get rid of a goalie. So, at the very least there should be a price to acquire Marky plus an additional cost to take back one of their goalies. 
 

Who needs a goalie anyway?

LA? Carolina? NJ? 
 

I agree that a summer trade allows for more teams to get in on Markstrom, but like everyone here agrees - if there’s an offer that is really good for him, you gotta look at it. 

[phoenix66]

When you have a stud goaltender ..you keep him until someone takes his job.   He said in the interview he's not asking to be traded ..so he's happy here .. 

 

I get everybody is hungry to get Wolf in there but fact is until he's able to steal markys job he ain't ready .

I 💯 agree he should be the permanent backup asap and no later than the start of next season tho .

 

Everyone talks about what a bust Trevor kdd was ..truth is we ruined him..we rushed him into full time starting (there were other factors ..mostly the fault of Pierre Page but thats an article in itself ) 

 

Fact is ... A stud goalie allows your kids to develop by hiding mistakes .. bailing out erors they are going to make 

 

 

To me.,unless a team is offering their top line center a first and an A prospect ...he stays 

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

When you have a stud goaltender ..you keep him until someone takes his job.   He said in the interview he's not asking to be traded ..so he's happy here .. 

 

I get everybody is hungry to get Wolf in there but fact is until he's able to steal markys job he ain't ready .

I 💯 agree he should be the permanent backup asap and no later than the start of next season tho .

 

Everyone talks about what a bust Trevor kdd was ..truth is we ruined him..we rushed him into full time starting (there were other factors ..mostly the fault of Pierre Page but thats an article in itself ) 

 

Fact is ... A stud goalie allows your kids to develop by hiding mistakes .. bailing out erors they are going to make 

 

 

To me.,unless a team is offering their top line center a first and an A prospect ...he stays 

 

So you are trying to win next year?  Why?

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Goalies don’t generally generate huge returns in trades, combine that with Markstrom’s age and contract and I just don’t see the Flames getting a return that is worth it.

 

They are better off having a reliable starter and vet between the pipes while they go through the retool and to help mentor Wolf when he comes up.

 

I don't see it this way.

 

One year ago, we were talking if we should buyout Markstrom.  What an anchor.  If Monahan costed a 1st to get rid of, then Markstrom would surely cost three 1sts.

 

Fast forward this year, another playoff less year and we should hang onto Markstrom because he's so good?

 

No.  Sell high.

 

Sign a $2-mil vet to get shelled next year while we bring Wolf along full time as backup.

 

Also, if Huberdeau finishes the year point per game with Kuzmenko.  I would try to trade both instantly this summer.

[Thebrewcrew]

Kuemper was the last goalie to generate a decent return.

 

He had 1yr left. The Yotes ate 1m. So the cap hit was 3.5.

 

The return was a 1st, 3rd as well as Conor Timmins. At the time Timmins was a pretty solid prospect.

 

Not sure if the Flames would be getting an offer like that. Would they be willing to eat money, for multiple years? I think it’s most likely that Markstrom stays.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

42 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So you are trying to win next year?  Why?

Because pros always try to win. Even when some people believe a top 10 pick will be the magic bullet the team needs.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Kuemper was the last goalie to generate a decent return.

 

He had 1yr left. The Yotes ate 1m. So the cap hit was 3.5.

 

The return was a 1st, 3rd as well as Conor Timmins. At the time Timmins was a pretty solid prospect.

 

Not sure if the Flames would be getting an offer like that. Would they be willing to eat money, for multiple years? I think it’s most likely that Markstrom stays.

 

That was a summer trade and there were no UFA's left that were any good.

Trying to swing a trade like that at TDL is quite difficult, if not impossible due to his AAV.

 

IMHO, the summer would be when the Flames make that choice.

There would need to be other things happening to make it logical.

Wolf being an AHL All Star (oops, already happened).

Beginning of a major retool (might get there soon).

Ownership and GM thinking it was time to rebuild from the net out.

 

Somebody here is going to laugh, but I think we should be making a play for a goalie not in the NHL to replace Marky.

Wallstedt or Askarov or whatever.

We have Wolf, but that is one piece.

We have some decent trade chips right now.

We don't have to use them to just get picks.

Think bigger.

[phoenix66]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

So you are trying to win next year?  Why?

I'm more saying think back to the goalie carousel we went thru .. finding the guy isn't easy .

Think Carter Hart (except the sleazeball part).. bursts on the scene .. flyers go all in and he crumbles under the pressure... He wasn't ready .. 

I think Wolf is the future ..but he isn't ready.. he's ready to be up here..be the backup and be given every opportunity to take Markys job... But that's how you make them grow .. 

 

Then on the flipside ..what can you reasonably except to get for him.. and to be serious ..he's playing at a top 3 veZina caliber level.. even tho his regular numbers are not what you look at..his underlying numbers say it's so...  

We were once on the verge of getting Ben bishop ..for a top 10 pick... Not bad ... but Tampa also had vasikevsky ready to be the man.. 

 

Who needs Marky most right now .. NJ?

Are they gonna give us Hughes ? .. or likely late first and a B prospect ..  is Marky gonna agree to leave this team for a tire fire like Columbus, cuz they might give up enough to make us listen ..

 

I just feel you have a guy that wants to be here ..he's not stupid ..he sees what we're doing.. unlikely to win a cup in the last 2 years of his deal..but he want to be here.. that breeds leadership.. that rubs off on the kids .. he's effectively our biggest interval retooling chip just by being here 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm more saying think back to the goalie carousel we went thru .. finding the guy isn't easy .

Think Carter Hart (except the sleazeball part).. bursts on the scene .. flyers go all in and he crumbles under the pressure... He wasn't ready .. 

I think Wolf is the future ..but he isn't ready.. he's ready to be up here..be the backup and be given every opportunity to take Markys job... But that's how you make them grow .. 

 

Then on the flipside ..what can you reasonably except to get for him.. and to be serious ..he's playing at a top 3 veZina caliber level.. even tho his regular numbers are not what you look at..his underlying numbers say it's so...  

We were once on the verge of getting Ben bishop ..for a top 10 pick... Not bad ... but Tampa also had vasikevsky ready to be the man.. 

 

Who needs Marky most right now .. NJ?

Are they gonna give us Hughes ? .. or likely late first and a B prospect ..  is Marky gonna agree to leave this team for a tire fire like Columbus, cuz they might give up enough to make us listen ..

 

I just feel you have a guy that wants to be here ..he's not stupid ..he sees what we're doing.. unlikely to win a cup in the last 2 years of his deal..but he want to be here.. that breeds leadership.. that rubs off on the kids .. he's effectively our biggest interval retooling chip just by being here 

 

Maybe it's not what I think it is because I feel we have a good chance to win next year if Markstrom is stellar again.  I don't think we should try to win.  But from what I can remember, Markstrom' numbers without Tanev are brutal.  Tanev is gone soon.  So in that sense, the case that Markstrom will look great next year likely doesn't apply.

 

And Wolf will struggle too for that matter.  If we are only left with Andersson and Weeger as legit NHL D next season, even Kipper in his prime can't save us.

 

So that said, sure keep Markstrom as a punching bag.  I think it's better to convert on a good season and then sign a new vet for 2-years for $3-mil-per or so in the summer to help Wolf transition to full time.

[sak22]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Maybe it's not what I think it is because I feel we have a good chance to win next year if Markstrom is stellar again.  I don't think we should try to win.  But from what I can remember, Markstrom' numbers without Tanev are brutal.  Tanev is gone soon.  So in that sense, the case that Markstrom will look great next year likely doesn't apply.

 

And Wolf will struggle too for that matter.  If we are only left with Andersson and Weeger as legit NHL D next season, even Kipper in his prime can't save us.

 

So that said, sure keep Markstrom as a punching bag.  I think it's better to convert on a good season and then sign a new vet for 2-years for $3-mil-per or so in the summer to help Wolf transition to full time.

Is that something we want though?  I'm not of the belief that hanging him out to dry most nights is "development".

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Is that something we want though?  I'm not of the belief that hanging him out to dry most nights is "development".

 

You mean Wolf?  Of course have a vet play infront of him next season.  Do we want $6-mil Markstrom or do we want a different option?  We just need a punching bag after all.

[taz89]

Markstrom not going anywhere unless it's an offer that can't be refused.  For example, would you say no if LA offered Byfield and a 1st?

[zima]

I have heard a lot of talk about retaining money on contracts I don't get it. It was only 2 seasons ago we had to pay a first an lose a good player bacause we were behind the 8 Ball why do silly things like that again?

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, zima said:

I have heard a lot of talk about retaining money on contracts I don't get it. It was only 2 seasons ago we had to pay a first an lose a good player bacause we were behind the 8 Ball why do silly things like that again?

 

I get what you mean. 

 

I think the idea is that if we are retooling with younger players, gaining extra assets could be good. It's weaponizing space that we wouldn't use. That of course depends on whether we keep Kuzmenko and others. If that's what happens, then I am on board with you, and I don't think that Conroy would do it unless it's just for this season and gain a bit extra in a deal, and I don't think it happens longer term either. 

 

If we are going to be bad next year, I am ok with retaining for the end of this year and next. Anything beyond that, I don't think Calgary can afford to. 

[Sarasti]

Sounds like the tabled deal for Hanifin is 7.5x8.

Now if you had asked me at the start of the season about this deal I'd have given a hard "no" but I am starting to come around on resigning him. I think his game has grown exponentially this season and he is playing the most confident hockey he ever has.

 

All that said, this also makes him a really interesting trade chip. I believe he'd bring a similar return that Lindholm did from the right team, maybe more.

 

Thoughts? 

[robrob74]

Just read an "article" by Editor in Leaf. HAHAHAHAH they thing Tanev doesn't help them and basically saying he's like Schenn. Obviously, they don't watch the Flames and don't understand the game Tanev plays and how he settles things down for his partner... Laughing and shaking my head at the same time!