GM Craig Conroy

[jjgallow]

 

The draft is done:

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html

 

I give Conroy a "B+".   Keep in mind I am hard to please lol.

 

It could turn into an "A" if Honzek regains his form after his injury.

 

He took some risks.  Which I liked.     Positionally, we did not do great.   But bpa is more important, so if a handful of these players turn out, all is 100% forgiven.    I would have liked to see more picks through trades, but if the market was tough, then I am glad he didn't make a bad trade over it.  Conroy went with "what he knows", which is mostly local hockey for the higher picks.   Without a doubt, we passed over some decent talent to get those players.  I don't love that and I'd like to see the scouting staff expanded.  However, I do think, within the scope of "what he knew"....he picked...really well.

 

 

Treliving also did his thing:   He gets a solid "F--".  Lol.   Just to give a sense of my grading scheme.

     He went out of his way to show that it is possible to grade below F.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008490.html

What on earth is that... I give chances of approximately 0.1% of even one of these players seeing the NHL.  0.01% of being an impact player.   My favorite part is that Treliving won't get blamed.  Initially.  It will be the scouts. Or maybe the owners.  who knows.

 

 

With that contrast before us, I feel very, very good today.
 

 

I liked his deal with Toffoli, and I am happy on draft day.  This is going to take a long time but I like where we are headed.

 

[JTech780]

Not sure where to put this but Michael Stone has retired and is joining the Flames in a player development role.

 

Consummate pro, maybe he can pass on a few pointers on how to launch bombs from the point. 

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Not sure where to put this but Michael Stone has retired and is joining the Flames in a player development role.

 

Consummate pro, maybe he can pass on a few pointers on how to launch bombs from the point. 

 

Maybe ne can explain to Ras how to find lanes to the net.

Ras has almost as powerful a shot, but almost never is able to use it.

 

[conundrumed]

My brother won a cup. We're done. Peace Out.

[cross16]

Well deserved and glad to see it. Stone was as loyal a pro to the Flames as you can find in today's game.

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Not sure where to put this but Michael Stone has retired and is joining the Flames in a player development role.

 

Consummate pro, maybe he can pass on a few pointers on how to launch bombs from the point. 

 

I think you put it in the right place.    

 

I do believe Conroy's legacy can be surrounding himself with the right people and bringing people together.    Perfect example here and always liked Stone.

[kehatch]

Jury is still out for me on Conroy. 

 

• I like what he says.  Specifically on not losing assets for nothing, injecting youth in the line up, not trading futures.  But its easier to say then do if you want to stay competitive in this league.  
• I am pretty meh on the coaching hires.  Its tough for fans to weigh in too much as we don't have the perspective.  But I am not a huge fan of Huska or Sigalet.  I get why they didn't hire Love as an assistant under Huska, but I would have preferred to either give Love the HC position or hire an outside HC and bring Love in as an assistant.  Huska is fine, just a bit too safe.
• The draft was ... fine.  I would have preferred they swung a bit harder in the first round given what was available, and there are a few flags given the priority they gave to size, but overall I thought they each pick was defensible.  
• I haven't loved the summer so far.  The Toffoli trade was just okay.  I don't like the extension for Sharangovich at all.  Most of all its the lack of movement.  I get that the Lindholm decision makes things harder and that he is holding out for a great return on Hanafin.  But its feeling a bit like he is waiting too long and teams are moving on.  Vladar at a minimum should have been traded if for a poor return.  I might be proven wrong and he gets a big return on some guys.  But its getting late in the day.  At this point we may end up into the season with these guys on our roster. 
• Conroy talks too much.  He is more rooted, but he still reminds me of Feaster.  For example, he made a big deal about not wanting to lose assets for nothing, alluding to the 1-year contracts.  Now if he can't move these guys we have a big distraction come camp.  

[The_People1]

26 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

• Conroy talks too much.  He is more rooted, but he still reminds me of Feaster.  For example, he made a big deal about not wanting to lose assets for nothing, alluding to the 1-year contracts.  Now if he can't move these guys we have a big distraction come camp.  

 

I feel that's Conroy's first mistake.  He announced to the league he wants to avoid the Gaudreau situation and so all the GMs around the league smelled blood.  No one is offering the Flames much to trade for Lindholm and Hanifin knowing Conroy is up against the clock.

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I feel that's Conroy's first mistake.  He announced to the league he wants to avoid the Gaudreau situation and so all the GMs around the league smelled blood.  No one is offering the Flames much to trade for Lindholm and Hanifin knowing Conroy is up against the clock.

 

Dunno, he already got what I thought was a pretty good return for Toffoli.

 

We should sometimes remember, as fans, that we are fans.

 

We naturally over-value players here.   Toffoli is old as dirt, and had a career season that nobody expects him to repeat.  We got a younger player with  a lot of upside and a great draft pick.  I'm happy with that.

 

I don't think the current player value had anything to do with anything Conroy said, and when you think about it, it's pretty clearly a case of...over-thinking.  

 

Truth is, BT already gave up all of our best players for practically nothing, sorry.  And for some reason we miss him. lol.

 

Now Conroy's got scraps, working to get a return.  He's already dealt one, making us younger, and he's only been here a few weeks.  Not bad.

 

We're really just talking about 2 remaining players of significant concern:  Lindholm and Hanifin, neither of which are anywhere near the calibre of players that BT squandered.

 

He's 1/3 done a few weeks in, that's a thumbs up for me.   Sure, the jury is still out, but only because he just got here.  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

Jury is still out for me on Conroy. 

 

• I like what he says.  Specifically on not losing assets for nothing, injecting youth in the line up, not trading futures.  But its easier to say then do if you want to stay competitive in this league.  
• I am pretty meh on the coaching hires.  Its tough for fans to weigh in too much as we don't have the perspective.  But I am not a huge fan of Huska or Sigalet.  I get why they didn't hire Love as an assistant under Huska, but I would have preferred to either give Love the HC position or hire an outside HC and bring Love in as an assistant.  Huska is fine, just a bit too safe.
• The draft was ... fine.  I would have preferred they swung a bit harder in the first round given what was available, and there are a few flags given the priority they gave to size, but overall I thought they each pick was defensible.  
• I haven't loved the summer so far.  The Toffoli trade was just okay.  I don't like the extension for Sharangovich at all.  Most of all its the lack of movement.  I get that the Lindholm decision makes things harder and that he is holding out for a great return on Hanafin.  But its feeling a bit like he is waiting too long and teams are moving on.  Vladar at a minimum should have been traded if for a poor return.  I might be proven wrong and he gets a big return on some guys.  But its getting late in the day.  At this point we may end up into the season with these guys on our roster. 
• Conroy talks too much.  He is more rooted, but he still reminds me of Feaster.  For example, he made a big deal about not wanting to lose assets for nothing, alluding to the 1-year contracts.  Now if he can't move these guys we have a big distraction come camp.  

 

All of this is a totally reasonable perspective, but through the eyes of an assumption that we are gunning for a playoff run.

 

We're not.

[Thebrewcrew]

There's way too much stock put into fans and media from what's said in press conferences.

 

Anyone on here watch/follow college football?

Nick Saban repeatedly said he wouldn't be leaving Miami to take the Alabama job, he did. It's all lip service.

 

When Conroy said he wouldn't let a Gaudreau scenario happen again... no kidding. It was an organizational failure to let a potential HOF player leave for nothing.

 

Look at the league, there's been almost zero major trades this summer. The fact that Hanifin hasn't been traded isn't because Conroy said he wanted to deal with his UFA's. There's just very little money to spend right now and there are more sellers than buyers. Karlsson, Pesce, Debrincat, Hellebuyck, Gibson, Scheiefele all figured to be on the move. As fans we're too close to it sometimes, this isn't a Flames-centric issue. It's the pinch of another year with the flat cap. I'd rather Conroy be patient than see another Iginla, Phaneuf or Bouwmeester deal.

[cross16]

18 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There's way too much stock put into fans and media from what's said in press conferences.

 

Anyone on here watch/follow college football?

Nick Saban repeatedly said he wouldn't be leaving Miami to take the Alabama job, he did. It's all lip service.

 

When Conroy said he wouldn't let a Gaudreau scenario happen again... no kidding. It was an organizational failure to let a potential HOF player leave for nothing.

 

Look at the league, there's been almost zero major trades this summer. The fact that Hanifin hasn't been traded isn't because Conroy said he wanted to deal with his UFA's. There's just very little money to spend right now and there are more sellers than buyers. Karlsson, Pesce, Debrincat, Hellebuyck, Gibson, Scheiefele all figured to be on the move. As fans we're too close to it sometimes, this isn't a Flames-centric issue. It's the pinch of another year with the flat cap. I'd rather Conroy be patient than see another Iginla, Phaneuf or Bouwmeester deal.

 

Press conferences are for the fans and for the organization to spin whatever PR message they want as a way to reach as many fans as they possible can. The media is a tool and I think players, coaches, and organizations know it as such. 

 

This isn't to attack Conroy but IMO everything he said was said to placate a fan base in turmoil. 

 

On his performance it's still very early on the summer. I can understand feeling a little underwhelmed but got to give him time. 

[conundrumed]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Press conferences are for the fans and for the organization to spin whatever PR message they want as a way to reach as many fans as they possible can. The media is a tool and I think players, coaches, and organizations know it as such. 

 

This isn't to attack Conroy but IMO everything he said was said to placate a fan base in turmoil. 

 

On his performance it's still very early on the summer. I can understand feeling a little underwhelmed but got to give him time. 

He's not stepping into a good situation. The fanbase is rabid, his ability to adjust things is severely handicapped by what he's left to work with. It's going to take awhile for reasons out of his control.

He really needs what we do have to step up for him in a big way. He can adjust from there, but it really is on the players.

This season isn't on Conroy and I really hope that it isn't treated like it is. It's not his build/prospect pool. He's going to need a season + to get some control over this. He's not the 1st mgr to try to fix a mess and he won't be the last.

He can only do what he can do. If the players don't step up, it could be a while.

[cross16]

I think the other thought to add here is i'm not sure if many saw this soft of a market transpiring. I wasn't bullish on what the Flames could get for  their 2024 UFAs but even saying that I'm a little surprised with how difficult it's been to extract value in trades. At the time he was hired it seemed like a great quote (ie we won't have UFAs walk for nothing) because the assumption was it be easy to put those guys on the market and get some value. Appears the offers are more pennies on the dollar then full value at this point. 

 

So if you are not going to pull it apart and rebuild (pretty clear at this point) and you are going to continue to push for the playoffs that's a tougher trade off. Do you sell these guys now and get reduced value in trade or do you run it back with the risk of getting nothing?

 

I think for Hanifin/LIndholm that question is pretty obvious. Not so sure it's as obvious for the likes of Toffoli, Backlund, Tanev etc. 

[Heartbreaker]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

I think the other thought to add here is i'm not sure if many saw this soft of a market transpiring. I wasn't bullish on what the Flames could get for  their 2024 UFAs but even saying that I'm a little surprised with how difficult it's been to extract value in trades. At the time he was hired it seemed like a great quote (ie we won't have UFAs walk for nothing) because the assumption was it be easy to put those guys on the market and get some value. Appears the offers are more pennies on the dollar then full value at this point. 

 

So if you are not going to pull it apart and rebuild (pretty clear at this point) and you are going to continue to push for the playoffs that's a tougher trade off. Do you sell these guys now and get reduced value in trade or do you run it back with the risk of getting nothing?

 

I think for Hanifin/LIndholm that question is pretty obvious. Not so sure it's as obvious for the likes of Toffoli, Backlund, Tanev etc. 

 

Another thing that makes it tricky is the fact that there are other free agents around the league that are, perhaps, more desirable than ours. I bring this up because it has occurred at the trade deadline in years past where a big name on the market holds everything up until the last minute. Once the big domino falls, there's not enough time to move the others. I don't know if that's something that I'm overthinking, but if you take a look at the 2024 class, which includes players like Auston Matthews, Steven Stamkos, Sebastian Aho, William Nylander, Sam Reinhart, and Jonathan Marchessault - how far down the list is Mikael Backlund? I realize a lot of those players aren't going anywhere - but it's not unheard of that a player who is considered Tier 2 gets left at the altar because everyone was in on someone, and didn't have time to circle back.

 

Love.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think the other thought to add here is i'm not sure if many saw this soft of a market transpiring. I wasn't bullish on what the Flames could get for  their 2024 UFAs but even saying that I'm a little surprised with how difficult it's been to extract value in trades. At the time he was hired it seemed like a great quote (ie we won't have UFAs walk for nothing) because the assumption was it be easy to put those guys on the market and get some value. Appears the offers are more pennies on the dollar then full value at this point. 

 

So if you are not going to pull it apart and rebuild (pretty clear at this point) and you are going to continue to push for the playoffs that's a tougher trade off. Do you sell these guys now and get reduced value in trade or do you run it back with the risk of getting nothing?

 

I think for Hanifin/LIndholm that question is pretty obvious. Not so sure it's as obvious for the likes of Toffoli, Backlund, Tanev etc. 

Salaries have been escalating faster than the cap. Just ask TML. Their massive signings assumed the cap would make a sizeable jump. I wanted us to be sellers at last year's TDL but not based on this argument. In hindsight, I think Washington, Nashville, Detroit as examples grabbed the break and recognized cap turmoil on the horizon. The implication has been plummeting trade values and we really need to get that 8 x $9(if true) off of the table for Lindholm. Ask Toronto about assuming that the cap will make it a bargain in the long run. I'd argue BT also thought the cap would assist the signings. Everyone running on assumptions sure hurts when the assumption is incorrect.

Player values have to be driven down, as much as they want to disagree. "The cap will jump" has been rumoured for 5 years. It hasn't.

[phoenix66]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think the other thought to add here is i'm not sure if many saw this soft of a market transpiring. I wasn't bullish on what the Flames could get for  their 2024 UFAs but even saying that I'm a little surprised with how difficult it's been to extract value in trades. At the time he was hired it seemed like a great quote (ie we won't have UFAs walk for nothing) because the assumption was it be easy to put those guys on the market and get some value. Appears the offers are more pennies on the dollar then full value at this point. 

 

So if you are not going to pull it apart and rebuild (pretty clear at this point) and you are going to continue to push for the playoffs that's a tougher trade off. Do you sell these guys now and get reduced value in trade or do you run it back with the risk of getting nothing?

 

I think for Hanifin/LIndholm that question is pretty obvious. Not so sure it's as obvious for the likes of Toffoli, Backlund, Tanev etc. 

At this point I think it's all about dominoes ..

Debrincat has finally moved , so now the focus shifts to Tarasenko.  He only costs you money and term ..

 

Everybody thought Sakic was gonna get fleeced sitting on Duchesne so long but he waited for the right deal ..

 

After the draft , when this year firsts were off the table any urgency on our part to move Hanifin and press Lindholm for an answer went away . 

So long as Lindholm is talking I'm ok with them taking their time .. unless a " we won't negotiate during the season " pops up like it did with Johnny . That would create a deadline ..

Hanifin i see gone by xmas latest .. Lindholm signed or gone same timeframe ..  ideally before the season starts but it's not critical 

 

I'm ok with taking Tanev, Backlund even Zadorov to the tdl..  if we're still in it doing well.. I'd be even ok then walking in the offseason ..if we're not ..sell em off .. 

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Another thing that makes it tricky is the fact that there are other free agents around the league that are, perhaps, more desirable than ours. I bring this up because it has occurred at the trade deadline in years past where a big name on the market holds everything up until the last minute. Once the big domino falls, there's not enough time to move the others. I don't know if that's something that I'm overthinking, but if you take a look at the 2024 class, which includes players like Auston Matthews, Steven Stamkos, Sebastian Aho, William Nylander, Sam Reinhart, and Jonathan Marchessault - how far down the list is Mikael Backlund? I realize a lot of those players aren't going anywhere - but it's not unheard of that a player who is considered Tier 2 gets left at the altar because everyone was in on someone, and didn't have time to circle back.

 

Love.

I think that you're right. With someone like Backlund, you won't get your perfect deal. If you decide to move him, you move him. If you hold out for better, well...like you say, everyone will jump regarding the high end guys and the afterthought is too late. It's a tough poker game but I don't think you can approach it with, "if we get x & y for him, okay".

You're moving him or you're not. It's not a maybe question. If you could only get a 3rd and a B prospect, oh well. He's going to find out that you tried to move him regardless. Now what?

[The_Tribal Chief]

Bump

[Thebrewcrew]

https://x.com/nhlflames/status/1700208018548543734?s=46&t=vx_PcoBYl_X4M1EgH5nQdg
 

 

Loubardias hired by the Flames to do

some scouting.

 

Also hired former Oiler, Denis Grebeshkov. He’s done some coaching in Russia. Will help cover that area most of the globe most likely.

[Heartbreaker]

30 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

https://x.com/nhlflames/status/1700208018548543734?s=46&t=vx_PcoBYl_X4M1EgH5nQdg
 

 

Loubardias hired by the Flames to do

some scouting.

 

Also hired former Oiler, Denis Grebeshkov. He’s done some coaching in Russia. Will help cover that area most of the globe most likely.

 

Awesome! Good on him!

 

Love.

[jjgallow]

47 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

https://x.com/nhlflames/status/1700208018548543734?s=46&t=vx_PcoBYl_X4M1EgH5nQdg
 

 

Loubardias hired by the Flames to do

some scouting.

 

Also hired former Oiler, Denis Grebeshkov. He’s done some coaching in Russia. Will help cover that area most of the globe most likely.

 

More scouts is good   

I think?    I always have mixed feelings about media personnel but they aren't all bad.

 

I might be even more interested in the  Denis Grebeshkov hire.

 

That...was...very, very, very needed.

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

More scouts is good   

I think?    I always have mixed feelings about media personnel but they aren't all bad.

 

I might be even more interested in the  Denis Grebeshkov hire.

 

That...was...very, very, very needed.

 

I have watched Loubo doing non-NHL games and he seems to have good insights about players.

He's going to be looking at reserve list players, so not really non-Flames.

Keep track on how they look.

It's a good thing.

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have watched Loubo doing non-NHL games and he seems to have good insights about players.

He's going to be looking at reserve list players, so not really non-Flames.

Keep track on how they look.

It's a good thing.

 

I believe you.   I mean if they hire Francis, then I'm going to have some questions.

 

I'm glad we're getting more eyes outside of NA too.

 

One of the first things a good GM is going to do is bolster scouting as much as possible.  May not be what the fans immediately want but it is very much the right path. 

[robrob74]

My problem with Loubo is he LOVES every player. Can you actually get a read on them if he's biased toward positivity? He does watch a lot of hockey.