General NHL Stuff

[sak22]

 

Congrats to Shane Pinto for being a trailblazer.  The question is whether he is in trouble for gambling in the first place, or was it for not using Bet365 who advertised on his helmet, or BetMGM who the current and past faces of the league promote regularly during NHL broadcasts.

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Congrats to Shane Pinto for being a trailblazer.  The question is whether he is in trouble for gambling in the first place, or was it for not using Bet365 who advertised on his helmet, or BetMGM who the current and past faces of the league promote regularly during NHL broadcasts.

 

Irony is very thick on this one.....

[sak22]

 

 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

So what does that mean?  What was he doing that the NHL considered wrong?  

[conundrumed]

From CBC's article:

 

[robrob74]

On 10/26/2023 at 2:05 PM, conundrumed said:

From CBC's article:

 

no wagers on NHL games, yikes! I'd hire a good lawyer, looks like free money there! If he hasn't gambled regarding NHL why doesn't he have a right to gamble other sports? Access to players in other leagues? We all could have access to players. 

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

no wagers on NHL games, yikes! I'd hire a good lawyer, looks like free money there! If he hasn't gambled regarding NHL why doesn't he have a right to gamble other sports? Access to players in other leagues? We all could have access to players. 

According to Friedman, he had a proxy (friend) attached to his account, which is illegal. And the NHL's head is so far up gambling websites Hash Rate that it simply can't be. Friedman also mentioned the PA had no problem with the 41 game suspension.

I'll keep my growing disdain for the NHL comments on the shelf atm...Pinto clearly broke a law, or rule, not sure which.

[robrob74]

41 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

According to Friedman, he had a proxy (friend) attached to his account, which is illegal. And the NHL's head is so far up gambling websites Hash Rate that it simply can't be. Friedman also mentioned the PA had no problem with the 41 game suspension.

I'll keep my growing disdain for the NHL comments on the shelf atm...Pinto clearly broke a law, or rule, not sure which.

 

interesting...

donyou think he'd even know the rule? I guess they'd be versed in it a bit? How many policies are out there that some just don't know?

 

 

interesting though. 
 

 

[conundrumed]

19 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

interesting...

donyou think he'd even know the rule? I guess they'd be versed in it a bit? How many policies are out there that some just don't know?

 

 

interesting though. 
 

 

Likely something that he didn't put much thought into. But the NHL prostituted itself to gambling dollars like all pro sports have, so they had to make the penalty severe because, well, they're gambling's biotch.

[travel_dude]

On 10/26/2023 at 3:05 PM, conundrumed said:

From CBC's article:

 

 

Revenue from sports betting companies propping up the NHL and NHL coverage.  Data from players used to set odds and give people chances to bet.  Ex players (and current) advertize the sites.  Everyone wants a piece of the pie.  A nobody player exploits a system's grey area and loses half his annual pay, once he gets signed.  I don't know his full story, so I'm not going to solely come down on him.  This was going to happen once the NHL went down the slippery slope.  

 

An annoying thing for me is the system is ripe to be exploited by those that can impact it.  A timely call in an important game.  The refs are moral by nature but can be targeted by those wishing to change outcomes.  Not saying it happens, just that it could.  We are talking about millions on the line.  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Revenue from sports betting companies propping up the NHL and NHL coverage.  Data from players used to set odds and give people chances to bet.  Ex players (and current) advertize the sites.  Everyone wants a piece of the pie.  A nobody player exploits a system's grey area and loses half his annual pay, once he gets signed.  I don't know his full story, so I'm not going to solely come down on him.  This was going to happen once the NHL went down the slippery slope.  

 

An annoying thing for me is the system is ripe to be exploited by those that can impact it.  A timely call in an important game.  The refs are moral by nature but can be targeted by those wishing to change outcomes.  Not saying it happens, just that it could.  We are talking about millions on the line.  

 

nhl is fixed anyway

[jjgallow]

betters gonna bet.

[robrob74]

Apparently it was a buddy placing a bet on his computer. The IP address was the players. At least that's what I gathered from Friedman's abstract explanation. But the IP address was what broke the rule. Maybe? But the player didn't bet on any NHL games, apparently.

[travel_dude]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:35 PM, robrob74 said:

Apparently it was a buddy placing a bet on his computer. The IP address was the players. At least that's what I gathered from Friedman's abstract explanation. But the IP address was what broke the rule. Maybe? But the player didn't bet on any NHL games, apparently.

 

So, the players know the rules.  And if they want to get around it, they "use" a buddy to do it.

One might expect that they could trace the money trail and determine the source.  If they bothered going that far.  If his buddy isn't loaded, then the size of the bet would draw interest.  FINTRAC looks at better sites to look for patterns.  There must have been warning signs that it was from a dubious source.

[The_People1]

Pinto has never heard of VPN?

 

There is some unwarranted outrage that OTT no longer needs to clear cap to sign Pinto to the roster.  They can sit back and wait for an injury or something and get cap space through IR.  Then sign Pinto in the new year.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Pinto has never heard of VPN?

 

There is some unwarranted outrage that OTT no longer needs to clear cap to sign Pinto to the roster.  They can sit back and wait for an injury or something and get cap space through IR.  Then sign Pinto in the new year.

 

I think they have to sign him by a certain date or he can't play.

No different than Nylander was.

Kane was different.

 

The VPN would hide the IP only, not prevent a site from enforcing user agreements.

[sak22]

 

If the Sens don't pick it up soon I don't see how Dorion can keep that job much longer.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

If the Sens don't pick it up soon I don't see how Dorion can keep that job much longer.

 

That's pretty brutal.  Vegas comes out squeaky clean.  Not that I blame them.

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

If the Sens don't pick it up soon I don't see how Dorion can keep that job much longer.

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's pretty brutal.  Vegas comes out squeaky clean.  Not that I blame them.

 

 

Maybe they have done this already, but they should set parameters of what the punishment before breaking rules, but they tend to use teams as examples right off the hop. 
 

did Ottawa not provide that info intentionally? Did they understand the rules to change if he is dealt? And why wasn't it written in the contract that a team must be getting when trading for a player? Surely, paperwork is forwarded and the signed contract is sent to the VGK? Shouldn't it all be in the contract that gets transferred along with the player?

[sak22]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

 

If the Sens don't pick it up soon I don't see how Dorion can keep that job much longer.

2 hours later

 

 

[The_People1]

Dorion had his ups and downs but ultimately screwing up that NTC and costing the Sens a 1st round pick and losing reputation was a fire able offense.  Also, new owners so they want their own guy in there.

 

If I remember correctly, the whole Karlsson/Hoffman saga was under his watch.  That triggered a forced rebuild.  Then they had the Duchene taxi incident.

 

I think Dorion is a decent hockey mind but he's not a good manager and PR person.

 

Hockey wise, they got Tkachuk, Stutzle, Chabot, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, etc in their rebuild and was able to lock up this core with 8-year deals which isn't easy for a small market team.  He took educated gambles paying big money before the kids proved they were worth it... It's something had BT done, then we'd still have Gaudreau and Tkachuk right now.  But BT had to nickle and dime his young stars.  Dorion went another way... And I think it's going to prove to be very smart signings for the Sens in the long run.

 

For this, I would love to add Dorion to the Flames front office in some way, not as GM, but he gets small market teams.  He understands rebuilds.  His hockey experience would be a huge asset to what the Flames are about to go through for the next 5 years.

[sak22]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Dorion had his ups and downs but ultimately screwing up that NTC and costing the Sens a 1st round pick and losing reputation was a fire able offense.  Also, new owners so they want their own guy in there.

 

If I remember correctly, the whole Karlsson/Hoffman saga was under his watch.  That triggered a forced rebuild.  Then they had the Duchene taxi incident.

 

I think Dorion is a decent hockey mind but he's not a good manager and PR person.

 

Hockey wise, they got Tkachuk, Stutzle, Chabot, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, etc in their rebuild and was able to lock up this core with 8-year deals which isn't easy for a small market team.  He took educated gambles paying big money before the kids proved they were worth it... It's something had BT done, then we'd still have Gaudreau and Tkachuk right now.  But BT had to nickle and dime his young stars.  Dorion went another way... And I think it's going to prove to be very smart signings for the Sens in the long run.

 

For this, I would love to add Dorion to the Flames front office in some way, not as GM, but he gets small market teams.  He understands rebuilds.  His hockey experience would be a huge asset to what the Flames are about to go through for the next 5 years.

I don't know how I grade Dorion overall.  I think his best move was the Karlsson move and not getting trade protection which allowed Stutzle, but that's more of an issue for San Jose, which also was just a makeup for his own overestimation of the team with his Duchene trade, really with the exception of Batherson and Chabot the team hasn't done that well in the draft when they picked outside top 5.  Tyler Boucher at 10 a couple years ago was a huge headscratcher at the time and hasn't looked good to date.  The long term deals for the most part are working out.  Debrincat was a disaster move, and finding goaltending has been a massive issue.  I'd be in no rush to hire him.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

I don't know how I grade Dorion overall.  I think his best move was the Karlsson move and not getting trade protection which allowed Stutzle, but that's more of an issue for San Jose, which also was just a makeup for his own overestimation of the team with his Duchene trade, really with the exception of Batherson and Chabot the team hasn't done that well in the draft when they picked outside top 5.  Tyler Boucher at 10 a couple years ago was a huge headscratcher at the time and hasn't looked good to date.  The long term deals for the most part are working out.  Debrincat was a disaster move, and finding goaltending has been a massive issue.  I'd be in no rush to hire him.

 

Yes that's fair.  Dorion had some hits and misses... and if he was drafting top 5 constantly, it's honestly hard to get it wrong.

[The_People1]

Meanwhile the Canucks beat the Sharks 10-1.  I can't believe there's actually a team worse than the Flames... And it's not even close.  Flames at least have goaltending and a decent bottom 6.  The Sharks are an AHL team up and down the roster especially with Couture injured. They might be the worst team in a very long time.

[conundrumed]

Is anyone....watching Ducks games? I've now watched 4.

Holy jesus on a bicycle are they ever fast and fun to watch with great goaltending.

Handed Boston their 1st loss (OT), just handed Vegas their first regulation loss.

They are looking for real rather than good start. Not an easy win anymore, at all.

Mason McTavish looking like a stud. High-flying offence and comeback kids looking similar to Detroit. No leads are safe, my fave kind of hockey, down and desperate.