General NHL Stuff

[Thebrewcrew]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

that depends though. Is hockey that much expensive in the States? I assume things are cheaper outside of Canada because you pay for the demand here. It's the Canada tax. Equipment might be expensive, but maybe the play and other parts of the game are cheaper? I wouldn't know... just spitballing...

I would think it’s as expensive at a minimum.

 

Theres a real shortage of ice surfaces in most major cities. People in Canada think we have a shortage, it’s even worse down there.

 

The town I live in has an old arena. I spent a few years working there back in the day.  Believe it was built in 1980. They put the ice in every September. If the weather is +20, the plant has a real hard time maintaining temperature to get ice to freeze. The cost to upgrade the plant is insane. Now imagine a climate where +20 is kinda the low water mark. Towns and municipalities don’t really have budget to splurge for an NHL grade plant.
 

I’m just really skeptical the game will ever grow as much as the league would hope. It’s not affordable to play and arenas are very expensive to run, especially in warm climates.

[sak22]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

that depends though. Is hockey that much expensive in the States? I assume things are cheaper outside of Canada because you pay for the demand here. It's the Canada tax. Equipment might be expensive, but maybe the play and other parts of the game are cheaper? I wouldn't know... just spitballing...

The Average Cost of Each Children's Sport (playgroundequipment.com)

It is going to vary from state to state, but what doesn't change is the overall affordability of the other major sports as well as the exposure they get.

[conundrumed]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:36 PM, sak22 said:

The Average Cost of Each Children's Sport (playgroundequipment.com)

It is going to vary from state to state, but what doesn't change is the overall affordability of the other major sports as well as the exposure they get.

Wow that travel cost I could only dream about. That would have gotten me 2 months at the very maximum. It started off as just London and random tourneys. It wasn't long before London, Windsor, Toronto region, multiple 3 hr drive tourneys. I would easily do double that amount just in fuel. Team buses don't exist below jr here.

If I could do it all over, I'd have tried to get a waiver for him to play in Detroit. 1 hr drive every time still would have cut down on driving time, even without having home games. But of course...his buddies.

[The_People1]

@conundrumed DET misses playoffs on a tie-breaker.  Not enough regulation wins.  Tough break.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

@conundrumed DET misses playoffs on a tie-breaker.  Not enough regulation wins.  Tough break.

Fitting for an extremely up-and-down year. Just exhausted Lyon for the dying weeks due to Husso being gone. Going 1-9 after the ASB killed them, coming off a 5 gm heater that had them right there with TBay. Walman being IR struck a blow on the D pairings that really showed. Ghostisbehere-Petry. lol in sadness.

Biggest bright spot: Raymond by far. They were saying he came to camp having added about 20lbs! of muscle. Did it ever show. I've always said any prospect can have an enormous off-season and improve by leaps and bounds. He proved it.

Up in the air with Kane and Perron. Didn't love that 2nd line with Compher. Ghostisbehere proved to other teams he's worth a decent contract.

Chiarot played well in the back half, but need to shed him and Holl, who barely played. Yzerman backed himself into buyouts. Same with Ladd. They're just not needed for next season.

8yrs without playoffs - Larkin's entire career.

I'd be shocked if they haven't inquired about Markstrom, because their G position is Lyon-Husso. Reimer did well for being a rebound machine. He fought, but he's a 2b on a good day.

They really need a workhorse goalie. They've managed to wear out Husso and Lyon in consecutive years.

Even just short term would at least buy time. Gru is the first guy to say that he feels bad for way over-playing his starters, that should really be 1B goalies.

So many moving parts. Seider and Raymond are getting PAID. Seider is the epitome of @jjgallow's D-ranking flaws.

Yzerman will have a busy summer. This time NOT shopping the UFA market hard. DeBrincat, Kane and Petry literally fell in his lap. Compher was a good add, Holl was a disaster to offset that.

Onwards and upwards!

Oh yeah...this is what a full rebuild looks like. The difference being Holland left a world of bad contracts behind. We're still paying Abdelkader. For 2 more years even.

edit

When the Wings hired Yzerman as GM, Holland would not just be his asst GM but also asst to POHO. He wasn't being demoted.

It took about 2 days for Holland to take another job. It makes me feel like he'd have taken any job, anywhere, because he was about to be heavily audited.

About 1-2 weeks later, Y held a press conference asking for patience, saying, "this is going to take a long time".

We'll see how he leaves Edmonton and if he had success. I'd be very wary if I were an Oilers fan, because he left Detroit with a disaster, imo.

Some will say, "but he was taking orders from ownership". I say that if you're just going to be toothless to ownership, why not move on? It's not like he couldn't have gotten a job.

I'm sure, "breach of trust" is in every contract, so it's not like he was enslaved by a contract. He just chose to spend horribly like a drunken sailor. Then he can blame ownership.

That's my take.

He saw the audit coming and couldn't leave fast enough.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

@conundrumed DET misses playoffs on a tie-breaker.  Not enough regulation wins.  Tough break.

Oh, and I'm disappointed, but not crushed. It was a positive step for them. They had 2 specific games last week. Washington and Pittsburgh. They needed 1 if not both. They got neither.

Just aren't quite over the hump. Considering everyone and their dog was treating the Wings like a nothing compared to how awesome Buffalo and Ottawa were going to be, I'd call it a success.

Hopefully Gru is growing as a coach as well. It's not a team to go into D-posture with a lead. It's the right way, just not with what you have. They stop skating and it is all doom. I prefer them being down 4-2 going to the 3rd, rather than up. lol

You change that momentum you have into, "defend", and you can't just flip a switch to get it back.

Coach what you have. Not what you want.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Fitting for an extremely up-and-down year. Just exhausted Lyon for the dying weeks due to Husso being gone. Going 1-9 after the ASB killed them, coming off a 5 gm heater that had them right there with TBay. Walman being IR struck a blow on the D pairings that really showed. Ghostisbehere-Petry. lol in sadness.

Biggest bright spot: Raymond by far. They were saying he came to camp having added about 20lbs! of muscle. Did it ever show. I've always said any prospect can have an enormous off-season and improve by leaps and bounds. He proved it.

Up in the air with Kane and Perron. Didn't love that 2nd line with Compher. Ghostisbehere proved to other teams he's worth a decent contract.

Chiarot played well in the back half, but need to shed him and Holl, who barely played. Yzerman backed himself into buyouts. Same with Ladd. They're just not needed for next season.

8yrs without playoffs - Larkin's entire career.

I'd be shocked if they haven't inquired about Markstrom, because their G position is Lyon-Husso. Reimer did well for being a rebound machine. He fought, but he's a 2b on a good day.

They really need a workhorse goalie. They've managed to wear out Husso and Lyon in consecutive years.

Even just short term would at least buy time. Gru is the first guy to say that he feels bad for way over-playing his starters, that should really be 1B goalies.

So many moving parts. Seider and Raymond are getting PAID. Seider is the epitome of @jjgallow's D-ranking flaws.

Yzerman will have a busy summer. This time NOT shopping the UFA market hard. DeBrincat, Kane and Petry literally fell in his lap. Compher was a good add, Holl was a disaster to offset that.

Onwards and upwards!

Oh yeah...this is what a full rebuild looks like. The difference being Holland left a world of bad contracts behind. We're still paying Abdelkader. For 2 more years even.

edit

When the Wings hired Yzerman as GM, Holland would not just be his asst GM but also asst to POHO. He wasn't being demoted.

It took about 2 days for Holland to take another job. It makes me feel like he'd have taken any job, anywhere, because he was about to be heavily audited.

About 1-2 weeks later, Y held a press conference asking for patience, saying, "this is going to take a long time".

We'll see how he leaves Edmonton and if he had success. I'd be very wary if I were an Oilers fan, because he left Detroit with a disaster, imo.

Some will say, "but he was taking orders from ownership". I say that if you're just going to be toothless to ownership, why not move on? It's not like he couldn't have gotten a job.

I'm sure, "breach of trust" is in every contract, so it's not like he was enslaved by a contract. He just chose to spend horribly like a drunken sailor. Then he can blame ownership.

That's my take.

He saw the audit coming and couldn't leave fast enough.

 

thank God they didn't consider goal scoring and mess up by drafting Cozens.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Fitting for an extremely up-and-down year. Just exhausted Lyon for the dying weeks due to Husso being gone. Going 1-9 after the ASB killed them, coming off a 5 gm heater that had them right there with TBay. Walman being IR struck a blow on the D pairings that really showed. Ghostisbehere-Petry. lol in sadness.

Biggest bright spot: Raymond by far. They were saying he came to camp having added about 20lbs! of muscle. Did it ever show. I've always said any prospect can have an enormous off-season and improve by leaps and bounds. He proved it.

Up in the air with Kane and Perron. Didn't love that 2nd line with Compher. Ghostisbehere proved to other teams he's worth a decent contract.

Chiarot played well in the back half, but need to shed him and Holl, who barely played. Yzerman backed himself into buyouts. Same with Ladd. They're just not needed for next season.

8yrs without playoffs - Larkin's entire career.

I'd be shocked if they haven't inquired about Markstrom, because their G position is Lyon-Husso. Reimer did well for being a rebound machine. He fought, but he's a 2b on a good day.

They really need a workhorse goalie. They've managed to wear out Husso and Lyon in consecutive years.

Even just short term would at least buy time. Gru is the first guy to say that he feels bad for way over-playing his starters, that should really be 1B goalies.

So many moving parts. Seider and Raymond are getting PAID. Seider is the epitome of @jjgallow's D-ranking flaws.

Yzerman will have a busy summer. This time NOT shopping the UFA market hard. DeBrincat, Kane and Petry literally fell in his lap. Compher was a good add, Holl was a disaster to offset that.

Onwards and upwards!

Oh yeah...this is what a full rebuild looks like. The difference being Holland left a world of bad contracts behind. We're still paying Abdelkader. For 2 more years even.

edit

When the Wings hired Yzerman as GM, Holland would not just be his asst GM but also asst to POHO. He wasn't being demoted.

It took about 2 days for Holland to take another job. It makes me feel like he'd have taken any job, anywhere, because he was about to be heavily audited.

About 1-2 weeks later, Y held a press conference asking for patience, saying, "this is going to take a long time".

We'll see how he leaves Edmonton and if he had success. I'd be very wary if I were an Oilers fan, because he left Detroit with a disaster, imo.

Some will say, "but he was taking orders from ownership". I say that if you're just going to be toothless to ownership, why not move on? It's not like he couldn't have gotten a job.

I'm sure, "breach of trust" is in every contract, so it's not like he was enslaved by a contract. He just chose to spend horribly like a drunken sailor. Then he can blame ownership.

That's my take.

He saw the audit coming and couldn't leave fast enough.

 

A Markstrom/Husso tandem would do well, assuming DET wants him and he would go.

I wouldn't suggest what a return would look like, since you know the team better.

It would do both teams well if it was reasonable.

 

Two exciting games to finish the season.  Nice.

Flyers gambled on a regulation win by pulling the goalie in a tie game.

With over 3 minutes remaining.

Well, because an OT win would not do it, though the timing of the EN was a little odd.

Philly was outshooting them 2-1 in the third.

But that sealed DET's fate too.

An OT loss for WAS would have pushed DET in WC2.

Tough break.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Fitting for an extremely up-and-down year. Just exhausted Lyon for the dying weeks due to Husso being gone. Going 1-9 after the ASB killed them, coming off a 5 gm heater that had them right there with TBay. Walman being IR struck a blow on the D pairings that really showed. Ghostisbehere-Petry. lol in sadness.

Biggest bright spot: Raymond by far. They were saying he came to camp having added about 20lbs! of muscle. Did it ever show. I've always said any prospect can have an enormous off-season and improve by leaps and bounds. He proved it.

Up in the air with Kane and Perron. Didn't love that 2nd line with Compher. Ghostisbehere proved to other teams he's worth a decent contract.

Chiarot played well in the back half, but need to shed him and Holl, who barely played. Yzerman backed himself into buyouts. Same with Ladd. They're just not needed for next season.

8yrs without playoffs - Larkin's entire career.

I'd be shocked if they haven't inquired about Markstrom, because their G position is Lyon-Husso. Reimer did well for being a rebound machine. He fought, but he's a 2b on a good day.

They really need a workhorse goalie. They've managed to wear out Husso and Lyon in consecutive years.

Even just short term would at least buy time. Gru is the first guy to say that he feels bad for way over-playing his starters, that should really be 1B goalies.

So many moving parts. Seider and Raymond are getting PAID. Seider is the epitome of @jjgallow's D-ranking flaws.

Yzerman will have a busy summer. This time NOT shopping the UFA market hard. DeBrincat, Kane and Petry literally fell in his lap. Compher was a good add, Holl was a disaster to offset that.

Onwards and upwards!

Oh yeah...this is what a full rebuild looks like. The difference being Holland left a world of bad contracts behind. We're still paying Abdelkader. For 2 more years even.

edit

When the Wings hired Yzerman as GM, Holland would not just be his asst GM but also asst to POHO. He wasn't being demoted.

It took about 2 days for Holland to take another job. It makes me feel like he'd have taken any job, anywhere, because he was about to be heavily audited.

About 1-2 weeks later, Y held a press conference asking for patience, saying, "this is going to take a long time".

We'll see how he leaves Edmonton and if he had success. I'd be very wary if I were an Oilers fan, because he left Detroit with a disaster, imo.

Some will say, "but he was taking orders from ownership". I say that if you're just going to be toothless to ownership, why not move on? It's not like he couldn't have gotten a job.

I'm sure, "breach of trust" is in every contract, so it's not like he was enslaved by a contract. He just chose to spend horribly like a drunken sailor. Then he can blame ownership.

That's my take.

He saw the audit coming and couldn't leave fast enough.

 

Unweighted draft lottery.  Sucks DET is a bad team but is going to get penalized with the 15/16th pick because they didn't trade away everyone with a pulse at the TDL.  DET tried to win to the very end.  Literally the team that misses the playoffs barely gets the worst ending of the season.

 

Anyways, DET future is looking bright.  So many young prospects ready to enter their primes.  Next year should be the year to make the playoffs.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Unweighted draft lottery.  Sucks DET is a bad team but is going to get penalized with the 15/16th pick because they didn't trade away everyone with a pulse at the TDL.  DET tried to win to the very end.  Literally the team that misses the playoffs barely gets the worst ending of the season.

 

Anyways, DET future is looking bright.  So many young prospects ready to enter their primes.  Next year should be the year to make the playoffs.

I don't think they're being punished. I actually think teams are punished by having to drop selections when other teams win the lotto. The bottom ones are ones that need the help. Detroit, to me, is on the up and they've had their chance at those top5 picks... 

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think they're being punished. I actually think teams are punished by having to drop selections when other teams win the lotto. The bottom ones are ones that need the help. Detroit, to me, is on the up and they've had their chance at those top5 picks... 

 

You assume they got to the bottom organically and tried to win every game to the end.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You assume they got to the bottom organically and tried to win every game to the end.

no, I don't assume anything like that at all. I'm all for the Flames getting a top pick. I'd hate if they were in last place and not get it because some team in 8th overall spot got it because their star is injured. 
 

Everyone does get to the bottom organically, there's a reason and it's because they are trading off all players to get as many picks as possible. Getting more picks helps to get more young players and hope they develop.

 

Not dissimilar to the way the flames traded Lindholm, Tanev, Zadorov, Toffoli, and so on, and how they might do so next year as well. Some call it a retool, some a rebuild. We would love to trade more and get more picks. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

no, I don't assume anything like that at all. I'm all for the Flames getting a top pick. I'd hate if they were in last place and not get it because some team in 8th overall spot got it because their star is injured. 
 

Everyone does get to the bottom organically, there's a reason and it's because they are trading off all players to get as many picks as possible. Getting more picks helps to get more young players and hope they develop.

 

Not dissimilar to the way the flames traded Lindholm, Tanev, Zadorov, Toffoli, and so on, and how they might do so next year as well. Some call it a retool, some a rebuild. We would love to trade more and get more picks. 

 

Trading off all players to get as many picks as possible is exactly losing inorganically.  Flames didn't do this exactly.  We traded for Kuzmenko and stuff.  Trying to still win while replenishing the cupboards with picks and prospects. 

 

Other teams haven't been this honest.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Trading off all players to get as many picks as possible is exactly losing inorganically.  Flames didn't do this exactly.  We traded for Kuzmenko and stuff.  Trying to still win while replenishing the cupboards with picks and prospects. 

 

Other teams haven't been this honest.

ok. So trading Iginla when they should have traded him 3 years earlier is inorganic? Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to trade anyone and only draft players organically? I don't see the difference. A team's player ages out, that's organic. A player starts to age but has value and your team is getting worse year by year, trade them and that's organic. Trade players away when there's no hope for a cup, that is organic... 

 

staying the course is horrible, and you know it. That is what the flames would have to do in order to be your version of organic.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

ok. So trading Iginla when they should have traded him 3 years earlier is inorganic? Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to trade anyone and only draft players organically? I don't see the difference. A team's player ages out, that's organic. A player starts to age but has value and your team is getting worse year by year, trade them and that's organic. Trade players away when there's no hope for a cup, that is organic... 

 

staying the course is horrible, and you know it. That is what the flames would have to do in order to be your version of organic.

 

Staying the course is not horrible if you keep everyone, miss the playoffs barely, and then luck into a top 3 pick.  The bounce back would be quick and swift because the pick would be one of the best prospects of that year.

 

The main reason teams "tank" is to get to the bottom to draft those guys.  With an unweighted lottery, there's no more ugly stuff like that.  Teams build to win every moment of the season.

 

An unweighted lottery is not just a simple change.  It would be NHL altering and change every team's rebuild strategy because the old tricks to sink to the bottom won't work anymore.

[conundrumed]

20 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

thank God they didn't consider goal scoring and mess up by drafting Cozens.

Oh boy....

So they used their 1st 3 picks on Dmen. Seider - now a bonafide 1D, Tuomisto and Johansson in the 2nd round. Both are close, Johansson is NHL-ready imho. Tuo is a big RHD with a monster of a clapper, Jo is a smaller (6') LD who prevails on D-acumen, skating and high IQ. So 3 differing dmen.

They also drafted G Carter Gylander, whom they recently signed at the end of Colgate's season, where he had a pretty solid 4 years on a middling team.

So here we are...

"You have to build a team from the net out, unless it affects my ability to be a contrarian"

- @jjgallow probably 🤪

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Staying the course is not horrible if you keep everyone, miss the playoffs barely, and then luck into a top 3 pick.  The bounce back would be quick and swift because the pick would be one of the best prospects of that year.

 

The main reason teams "tank" is to get to the bottom to draft those guys.  With an unweighted lottery, there's no more ugly stuff like that.  Teams build to win every moment of the season.

 

An unweighted lottery is not just a simple change.  It would be NHL altering and change every team's rebuild strategy because the old tricks to sink to the bottom won't work anymore.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? lol

You and your "tanking". You act like there are zero reasons WHY teams get so bad, that they simply do it deliberately.

So let's look at Calgary specifically, although every team has reasons.

You're a solid team. You're 2 stars decide, yeah I'm not playing here. It turns into a subset of your pending ufas next tier of best players saying they don't want to be here either.

Now, you're not a very good team and struggling to stay afloat. None of which was your own doing.

Are you depicting this as Calgary is tanking for a high draft pick on purpose? Because that is precisely what you're implying with full-on blinders.

So now you want to penalize them further by decreasing their odds of NEEDING the draft to dig themselves out.

There are no exceptions. It doesn't matter that the players abandoned Calgary.

But you know what, we don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto, because there is a 1% chance over time that a team is doing it on purpose. And by doing it on purpose, I mean playing their prospects because they're out of the playoff race, players are beat up, they want to see prospects at this level for next season..whatever reason.

No. They are purposely tanking. All of them. End of story.

So Blockchain all of them. We don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto, they can draft 20th-32nd every year for all we care.

 

So now, how do you expect those teams to survive now that you've cut the only lifeline that they had? A lifeline that's going to take 5 years as it is, but it's the only one available.

One day you wake up startled by the trend of diminishing returns in 6-8 markets. The fans are finding better things to do than buy Andrew Mangiapane jerseys and cheer on that 20th win of the season in game 70. With no hope of it getting better, no star up-and-coming kids to cheer for?

All because you just erroneously assumed that teams wanted to have a garbage product for their fans on purpose.

Melodramatic, but also a better chance for that scenario than this runaway train of the, "tanking on purpose" mindset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Oh boy....

So they used their 1st 3 picks on Dmen. Seider - now a bonafide 1D, Tuomisto and Johansson in the 2nd round. Both are close, Johansson is NHL-ready imho. Tuo is a big RHD with a monster of a clapper, Jo is a smaller (6') LD who prevails on D-acumen, skating and high IQ. So 3 differing dmen.

They also drafted G Carter Gylander, whom they recently signed at the end of Colgate's season, where he had a pretty solid 4 years on a middling team.

So here we are...

"You have to build a team from the net out, unless it affects my ability to be a contrarian"

- @jjgallow probably 🤪

 

You would be surprised to know that in the NHL, it is possible to acquire players through trade, as well as free agent signing.

 

I like Detroit and I like Seider and it's all just fine, but if that's the epitome of proving me wrong, you came up short.   Seider is not yet a bonafide 1D on a great team.   If he continues his development path then he could very well become that.   Yes, I know he's got a good 2 way game.   But it's still not quite enough.  When people do the 10-year redraft, Seider's just not going to be on top of it, sorry.   Or in the top 5.  Lucky to be in top 10.   Unless he's got another big development step coming, which he of course might, with his style of play.   He's doing all the things defencemen finally learn to do as they hit their prime.    And he's doing them early.  But he doesn't necessarily have some of the other intangibles that the greats just...come with.  There's just a few key things missing, and he could still learn them before he hits his prime, but they are HARD things to learn after the fact.

 

D is a mess largely in part because the draft needs to be pushed back a year.  It's too early to say if Seider is the best D in that draft.

 

Ask yourself the best thing the Flames did with D in the last 20 years.

 

Then load up on over-agers.

 

I'll be happy if we draft a D, but to be completely honest I hope they are a little better than Seider if we do.  He's very wholesome, I fully agree, but I'd still hope for a little more with a top 10 pick.  Not that I'd mind him on he Flames, just saying.

[conundrumed]

58 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

but if that's the epitome of proving me wrong, you came up short. 

No I didn't. You just move the goalposts to suit your contradictions.

Go ahead, redo that draft. Entertain me.

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

No I didn't. You just move the goalposts to suit your contradictions.

Go ahead, redo that draft. Entertain me.

 

You remember me in the last draft.   Wanted the D.  You defending  Honzek.   Draft before that too. 

 

I'm still like that, but I think we should be picky.   With the D available,  should be able to get someone who has it all.  Or Tij, but Then acquire a D to make up for it. 

 

You just wanna fight.   I been there.

 

Try taking the wife away for a few nights.  Just sayin.

 

In a redraft right now Seider would be unchanged.  But some fell behind him, some have surpassed him.   The ones who surpassed him did it with talent,  and yes they can score, and there will be more of them by the time we do a 10 year redraft.  He has a ceiling. 

 

I want to draft someone who doesn't. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Detroit.   I hope they contend.   They did most things right.  Maybe  not all

 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Staying the course is not horrible if you keep everyone, miss the playoffs barely, and then luck into a top 3 pick.  The bounce back would be quick and swift because the pick would be one of the best prospects of that year.

 

The main reason teams "tank" is to get to the bottom to draft those guys.  With an unweighted lottery, there's no more ugly stuff like that.  Teams build to win every moment of the season.

 

An unweighted lottery is not just a simple change.  It would be NHL altering and change every team's rebuild strategy because the old tricks to sink to the bottom won't work anymore.

you are being hypocritical. Staying the course with Iginla, Kipper and Bouw, you'd even said it yourself changes needed to happen earlier.

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Staying the course is not horrible if you keep everyone, miss the playoffs barely, and then luck into a top 3 pick.  The bounce back would be quick and swift because the pick would be one of the best prospects of that year.

 

The main reason teams "tank" is to get to the bottom to draft those guys.  With an unweighted lottery, there's no more ugly stuff like that.  Teams build to win every moment of the season.

 

An unweighted lottery is not just a simple change.  It would be NHL altering and change every team's rebuild strategy because the old tricks to sink to the bottom won't work anymore.

 

they won't do it because good organizations would win all the cups and bad organizations would spend decades in the basement.   or at least that would be the fear.

 

Meeting halfway would be nice though.  

[robrob74]

There is no way the NHL will ever go to an unweighted lotto. While we think tanking is a horrible way to go, there are going to be some poorly run clubs and teams that need to benefit the system. 
 

Calgary will never be a team that does that. Are they penalized for it? No. Because that is their choice. They choose to operate that way in hopes to gain extra revenue for a round of hockey or catch lightening in a bottle and then lose to them due to poor video on the goal that was in. That's just the way the Flames operate. 
 

we complain because the system doesn't work for us. Fact is, teams that are horrible need to get more draft picks to possibly draft better nhl players. It's how to build. More picks equate to younger players. 
 

i like what Conundrum said, what do you do when players decide not to play for your club? Calgary has never had that problem. Not a problem of them signing players at market value in UFA. 
 

Calgary needs to do a full gut of the team and start from scratch. With your proposed system you assume teams need to keep the studs and rebuild. Our studs left. There aren't any anymore.

[cberg]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? lol

You and your "tanking". You act like there are zero reasons WHY teams get so bad, that they simply do it deliberately.

So let's look at Calgary specifically, although every team has reasons.

You're a solid team. You're 2 stars decide, yeah I'm not playing here. It turns into a subset of your pending ufas next tier of best players saying they don't want to be here either.

Now, you're not a very good team and struggling to stay afloat. None of which was your own doing.

Are you depicting this as Calgary is tanking for a high draft pick on purpose? Because that is precisely what you're implying with full-on blinders.

So now you want to penalize them further by decreasing their odds of NEEDING the draft to dig themselves out.

There are no exceptions. It doesn't matter that the players abandoned Calgary.

But you know what, we don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto, because there is a 1% chance over time that a team is doing it on purpose. And by doing it on purpose, I mean playing their prospects because they're out of the playoff race, players are beat up, they want to see prospects at this level for next season..whatever reason.

No. They are purposely tanking. All of them. End of story.

So Blockchain all of them. We don't give a Satoshi Nakamoto, they can draft 20th-32nd every year for all we care.

 

So now, how do you expect those teams to survive now that you've cut the only lifeline that they had? A lifeline that's going to take 5 years as it is, but it's the only one available.

One day you wake up startled by the trend of diminishing returns in 6-8 markets. The fans are finding better things to do than buy Andrew Mangiapane jerseys and cheer on that 20th win of the season in game 70. With no hope of it getting better, no star up-and-coming kids to cheer for?

All because you just erroneously assumed that teams wanted to have a garbage product for their fans on purpose.

Melodramatic, but also a better chance for that scenario than this runaway train of the, "tanking on purpose" mindset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the past there was clear and evident "tanking on purpose", e.g. for Lemieux, which among other things led to the draft lottery system.  More recently, whether intentional or pure managerial incompetence, e.g. Oilers, multiple tweaks happened to bring us to the current lottery rules.  Looking at Calgary it is unfair and inaccurate to say it just happened, "none of which was your own doing".  Gaudreau and Tkachuk didn't just wake up one day and think, "I want to leave" out of the blue.  There was an extensive history with management/contracts/team-building that for certain was a factor, that management was largely responsible for.  Sure, the Flames haven't intentionally tanked, the recent moves though are resultant from lots of other decisions along the way.  Ultimately the Flames did not want to fully tank down the stretch, increasing trades and playing LOTS of prospects to try to lose games, but rather install a winning atmosphere, if possible while dealing with player losses at the same time.  Kind of making the best of a bad situation.  This middle of the road mandate seems like the Flames way, and is probably the key reason why they continue to get middle of the road results.  They get exactly what they plan for.  As fans who want a Cup, it is frustrating.

[cross16]

Still think the idea that teams "tank" is flawed. Can ask any pro athlete and the idea that any of them would go out and lose on purpose is just flat out silly and wrong. This concept is for fans only and really isn't situated in fact. Do some teams ship everyone out, sure they do but that doesn't come without risk. All you have to do is look at the Oilers, Sabres and Islanders as team that got rid of basically everyone and then realized that the build up is pretty difficult. Could be Detroit in this bucket now too, Leafs even. 

 

Go look at the NFL. There isn't even a lottery there and tanking doesn't come up for them. 

 

Honestly not sure why this comes up as often as it does but it's a lot of discussion around a made up problem IMO.