Training Camp 2022

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Stone has been incredible. What more does a guy have to do to stick here? That shot is definitely made for PP time, and I like his defensive game (I'll always point out how he pins players to the boards for a few steamboats to keep them out of the play and out of sync with their linemates - a lost art!) 

 

With a full roster, Stone has shown to be 7th.  Probably had more highlights than Meloche, Mackey and Valimaki.  But, the competition is very weak.  If he is signed, they may run him the exact same way they did last year.  If Kylington is not back to start the season, they will probably keep Stone and Mackey.  Mackey has a pretty quiet game, but seems to also have decent first passes.  

 

I am still concerned about the upper part of the roster.  The top line hasn't looked very good yet.  Toffoli should be practicing with Kadri.  I would like to see Bread up with Huberdeau.  Then focus on the 2nd line LW.  Dube with Backlund and Coleman is probably your best bet.  That tells me that we are down a top 6 LW.  Nobody has really grabbed it.  Too many guys for the 4th line.  Perhaps Ruzie can step up, since his other options of C or playing 3rd line seem to be drying up.  

 

I like Rooney's game, but a contender needs him to be a 4th line player.  Lucic, if he plays 82, is going to be a big task to keep on the right side of the ledger.  I would be more comfortable with Rooney/Ruzicka/Zohorna/Lewis/Ritchie.  Some makeup of those guys;  Zohorna-Ruzie-Rooney or Zohorna-Rooney-Lewis.  Have to see some experiments there.

 

This is a round about way of saying we are desperately needing a top 6 winger.  Trade seems most likely.  Expensive to find a top 6 winger though.    

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

With a full roster, Stone has shown to be 7th.  Probably had more highlights than Meloche, Mackey and Valimaki.  But, the competition is very weak.  If he is signed, they may run him the exact same way they did last year.  If Kylington is not back to start the season, they will probably keep Stone and Mackey.  Mackey has a pretty quiet game, but seems to also have decent first passes.  

 

I am still concerned about the upper part of the roster.  The top line hasn't looked very good yet.  Toffoli should be practicing with Kadri.  I would like to see Bread up with Huberdeau.  Then focus on the 2nd line LW.  Dube with Backlund and Coleman is probably your best bet.  That tells me that we are down a top 6 LW.  Nobody has really grabbed it.  Too many guys for the 4th line.  Perhaps Ruzie can step up, since his other options of C or playing 3rd line seem to be drying up.  

 

I like Rooney's game, but a contender needs him to be a 4th line player.  Lucic, if he plays 82, is going to be a big task to keep on the right side of the ledger.  I would be more comfortable with Rooney/Ruzicka/Zohorna/Lewis/Ritchie.  Some makeup of those guys;  Zohorna-Ruzie-Rooney or Zohorna-Rooney-Lewis.  Have to see some experiments there.

 

This is a round about way of saying we are desperately needing a top 6 winger.  Trade seems most likely.  Expensive to find a top 6 winger though.    

 

I agree. I think the Flames are going to have to work with what they have to find chemistry, build a pretty good top 6 and try and patch together a bottom 6 that doesn't get beaten up. I think they'll be find until the trade deadline when they'll have to shop for a top 9 winger. 

 

Sucks because they don't have a ton of picks to be aggressive like that but don't really have a choice. 

[JTech780]

The waiver eligible defense is still going to be interesting, I doubt they want to lose any of Valimaki, Mackey or Meloche for nothing at this point.

 

I think Ruzicka is an interesting guy in this conversation as well. Is he going to be the 13th/14th forward? Is he a guy who can play a top 9 winger role?

 

I hope Dube can take the opportunity on the 2nd line and run with it, though it would be nice to have some size on that line. That being said with Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube speed and pace shouldn’t be an issue.

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

Stone has been incredible. What more does a guy have to do to stick here? That shot is definitely made for PP time, and I like his defensive game (I'll always point out how he pins players to the boards for a few steamboats to keep them out of the play and out of sync with their linemates - a lost art!) 

 

Stone has got such a deadly shot that I'd like to see him go up the RW and launch some bombs 4 or 5 times a game.  With Kadri play making and Stone finishing, it could be an interesting line.

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The waiver eligible defense is still going to be interesting, I doubt they want to lose any of Valimaki, Mackey or Meloche for nothing at this point.

 

I think Ruzicka is an interesting guy in this conversation as well. Is he going to be the 13th/14th forward? Is he a guy who can play a top 9 winger role?

 

I hope Dube can take the opportunity on the 2nd line and run with it, though it would be nice to have some size on that line. That being said with Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube speed and pace shouldn’t be an issue.

 

 

 

The downside of the players not being good enough to make the top 6 also hinders their trade value.  I don't think ARI would put in a claim on Valimaki, since they have to also trim their roster, but they could afford the cap hit.  PITTS might put in a claim since we "stole" one of their players and Burke know a bit about Valimaki.  They have cap issues themselves and 8 D.

 

Dube looked good on the 2nd line, but really it was against a sub-par team, so I'm not reading much into it.  If Ruzie could somehow break out as a winger, then it might be good to see him with Kadri.  Would need to play on RW, unless Toffoli is moved down there and Mangiapane up.

 

The unfortunate thing is that we have only 2 games.  We should be down to the final roster being iced for those games.  Too many D and not enough reps with the guys locked with the guys that may be fighting for a spot.  

[conundrumed]

Not concerned if Valimaki gets claimed. Dube will be good on the 2nd line, Rooney can stay LW with Backlund.

Toffoli may have to swap with Dube though, hopefully not but maybe.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Not concerned if Valimaki gets claimed. Dube will be good on the 2nd line, Rooney can stay LW with Backlund.

Toffoli may have to swap with Dube though, hopefully not but maybe.

 

i haven't liked Toffoli's fit since last year. The hope was that he got a set up guy, but I found last year he tended to try do a lot on his own. I was hoping it was just because of lack of options but found he likes to try skate it in on his own.

 

i haven't watched anything this off season to see if anything is different. 

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i haven't liked Toffoli's fit since last year. The hope was that he got a set up guy, but I found last year he tended to try do a lot on his own. I was hoping it was just because of lack of options but found he likes to try skate it in on his own.

 

i haven't watched anything this off season to see if anything is different. 

 

Ya man.  The leash is short on Toffoli. 

 

I mean, it's never a bad play to shoot the puck but when he's forcing shots from bad angles when a teammate is wide open for a pass, shooting into legs when there's no shot to be had, and generally giving the puck away, etc, it adds up.  He's just not smart and has only average hockey IQ.  He's depth scoring support and should not be a #1 line option.

 

We are in trouble on RW and the season hasn't even started yet.

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man.  The leash is short on Toffoli. 

 

I mean, it's never a bad play to shoot the puck but when he's forcing shots from bad angles when a teammate is wide open for a pass, shooting into legs when there's no shot to be had, and generally giving the puck away, etc, it adds up.  He's just not smart and has only average hockey IQ.  He's depth scoring support and should not be a #1 line option.

 

We are in trouble on RW and the season hasn't even started yet.

it sounds like it's a common theme every year. Hoping they can get that sorted. I feel if a deal was to be done, it would have happened.

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man.  The leash is short on Toffoli. 

 

I mean, it's never a bad play to shoot the puck but when he's forcing shots from bad angles when a teammate is wide open for a pass, shooting into legs when there's no shot to be had, and generally giving the puck away, etc, it adds up.  He's just not smart and has only average hockey IQ.  He's depth scoring support and should not be a #1 line option.

 

We are in trouble on RW and the season hasn't even started yet.

I don't think it will really be trouble. Huberdeau has given players not unlike Toffoli's and Dube's career years. Add in Kadri and I think both RWers are good options. Not great, but you can't have it all. I could see Dube taking that spot from Toffoli just to give Huberdeau better speed and IQ. Toffoli likely fits better with Kadri and Mangiapane as far as pace goes. 

[robrob74]

21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think it will really be trouble. Huberdeau has given players not unlike Toffoli's and Dube's career years. Add in Kadri and I think both RWers are good options. Not great, but you can't have it all. I could see Dube taking that spot from Toffoli just to give Huberdeau better speed and IQ. Toffoli likely fits better with Kadri and Mangiapane as far as pace goes. 

my only worry is that Toffoli and Mangiapane tend to get the puck in the zone and make a move or two to get open. They're similar in that way. But Mangiapane does a bit more to make his own space. 
 

i don't know if it's a systems thing, or a toffoli thing. 

[The_People1]

53 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think it will really be trouble. Huberdeau has given players not unlike Toffoli's and Dube's career years. Add in Kadri and I think both RWers are good options. Not great, but you can't have it all. I could see Dube taking that spot from Toffoli just to give Huberdeau better speed and IQ. Toffoli likely fits better with Kadri and Mangiapane as far as pace goes. 

 

Ya Toffoli is too slow.  Dube would fit better but he's too easily pushed off the puck.  He needs work absorbing contact and keeping possession.  Don't understand why it's extra hard for him.

 

At some point they will have to try Lindholm on RW.  Maybe Ruzicka at Center.

[robrob74]

30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya Toffoli is too slow.  Dube would fit better but he's too easily pushed off the puck.  He needs work absorbing contact and keeping possession.  Don't understand why it's extra hard for him.

 

At some point they will have to try Lindholm on RW.  Maybe Ruzicka at Center.

 

that's too bad. the C depth is great. I don't think teams want our depth D, as I think 6/7 D tend to be a dime a dozen. And does Hanifin have value or are the flames even shopping him for that? 

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

that's too bad. the C depth is great. I don't think teams want our depth D, as I think 6/7 D tend to be a dime a dozen. And does Hanifin have value or are the flames even shopping him for that? 

 

Season is starting so not sure who is available.  Maybe Keller from ARZ?  Chychrun wants out but haven't heard from Keller.  Keller has the speed and smarts to keep up with Huberdeau but Keller is $7.1-mil x 6-years.  

[travel_dude]

We may be okay or we may have problems in the top 6.

You break up Dube from Backlund, you have a different problem.

Harder spot to replace than playing with Kadri.

 

Have to get the top line right.

Toffoli or Mangiapane have to be the only choices.

That leaves one of them to play with Kadri.

If Mangiapane is with Kadri, then the RW has to be a setup guy.

If Toffoli is with Kadri, then the LW has to be a setup guy.

I don't think we have that player.

 

Realistically, we have two trade chips; Hanifin and Kylington.

Kylington has more value to a team short on cap.

He's also at max value right now.

Hanifin would be best used on a more expensive winger.

For instance, Willie Nee.

Kylington would get you more like a younger winger with a decent ceiling.

 

[conundrumed]

I think Dube top line RW. Rantanen's aren't available.

Dube has always struggled with pace. Trying to play faster but buoyed by linemates. He can move the puck up and find Huberdeau with him now, not trying to buy time for catch-up.

[sak22]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

that's too bad. the C depth is great. I don't think teams want our depth D, as I think 6/7 D tend to be a dime a dozen. And does Hanifin have value or are the flames even shopping him for that? 

Who makes him expendable?  Stone,?

 

We shouldn't even entertain the thought of moving a top defenceman this year, we should anticipate Kylington starting slow and who knows when that start will even happen.  I think we need to be prepared for injuries, and for the real possibility that age and punishment will eventually catch up to Tanev.  We don't need to score like last year to win, just need to continue being a top 5 in not being scored on which I like the chances of.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Who makes him expendable?  Stone,?

 

We shouldn't even entertain the thought of moving a top defenceman this year, we should anticipate Kylington starting slow and who knows when that start will even happen.  I think we need to be prepared for injuries, and for the real possibility that age and punishment will eventually catch up to Tanev.  We don't need to score like last year to win, just need to continue being a top 5 in not being scored on which I like the chances of.

 

i don't think anyone makes him expendable. I'm thinking more in line with the fact he might be the only chip to get a top6 F. And going off the thought that at the Beginning  of off season that he was to piece to move, or after Weegar being acquired.

 

just where, from the team, can the flames upgrade the Top6. 

[MP5029]

Personally I think everything kinda hinges on Manji right now…if he can make the adjustment to RW and build chemistry with Lindy and Hubby that will solidify the top line 

 

then there is the matter of who plays with Kadri..I think Dube is a far better fit for Kadri than Tof which would definitely add to the argument that we would be in need of trading Tof for a passing LW

 

if manji can’t make the adjustment to RW then we need to look at moving Tof for a faster RW scorer and one hopefully with higher hockey IQ too but then the 2 ns line should be ok with Kadri Manji and Dube…not ideal as Manj and Kadri could use a better passer but early indications Kadri, Manj and Dube seem to have some chemistry just haven’t manage to convert on high pressure chances…yet 

 

no matter how it shakes out…we obviously need a top 6 winger but could be a RW or LW depending on where Manji fits in best at.

[cross16]

I'm not nearly as worried about the wing depth/situation as the trend here is going. Toffoli was not near as bad last year as he's been made out to be and speed wont' be a problem with Huberdeau (who doesn't play as fast as Gaudreau). I actually think Toffoli has a good year this year because his fit on this team is much better than it was last year. 

 

The Flames top 6 looks fine to me. The problem for me is they need another option because they need to deepen their bottom 6 and push guys down the lineup, but I don't think this top 6 is going to lack punch. 

[sak22]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

i don't think anyone makes him expendable. I'm thinking more in line with the fact he might be the only chip to get a top6 F. And going off the thought that at the Beginning  of off season that he was to piece to move, or after Weegar being acquired.

 

just where, from the team, can the flames upgrade the Top6. 

Yeah I just think people this summer were just throwing Hanifin in any suggestion without factoring the needs of the other team, example see how Nylander gets thrown around Toronto's LD currently consists of Reilly, Muzzin, Sandin and Giordano, I don't see how Hanifin would be something they would want.  I think the top 6 is something we gotta role with what we have, the same people saying we don't have enough now are the same people that complained we didn't have enough on D last year.

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'm not nearly as worried about the wing depth/situation as the trend here is going. Toffoli was not near as bad last year as he's been made out to be and speed wont' be a problem with Huberdeau (who doesn't play as fast as Gaudreau). I actually think Toffoli has a good year this year because his fit on this team is much better than it was last year. 

 

The Flames top 6 looks fine to me. The problem for me is they need another option because they need to deepen their bottom 6 and push guys down the lineup, but I don't think this top 6 is going to lack punch. 

 

My concern isn't over whether Dube can play in the top 6; he can.  My concern is that it bleeds the 3rd line.  Rooney for the 4th line sounds good to me, since he can help that line without the puck.  Ruzie would be okay in a 3rd line or 4th line role, but unless he's at C, I think he's going to struggle.  To me, the Coleman-Backlund-Dube line sounds like the best 3rd line we can manage.  So, we are back to finding the right player to fit the 2nd line.  

 

Toffoli will be fine as a RW in the top 6, just need to find the best fit.  Same with Mangiapane, since he seems well suited as 2LW, but could also be a great fit as 1RW. 

 

If we could trade Valimaki for a middle 6 winger that would be better than burying him on the farm.  I realize he has little value in what he's done, but he should have some.    

[JTech780]

Really intrigued by this Zohorna. He might just be the top 9 guy we are looking for.

 

Zadorov has been getting a lot of looks in the top 4 in preseason which is interesting. 

[travel_dude]

Funny, I was just going to post this lineup.  The one thing to note is that Ruzie is getting another chance to show his ware, this time with a responsible winger.  Interesting to see Zohorna there as well.  

 

I like that they are trying out the D in different configurations.  Hope Kylington gets back soon, as he is missing the entire camp.  He's going to have to find his spot in the top 6.  Zaddy has looked good in most of his deployments.  Interesting to see him with Ras, as Ras normally has to be the tough guy on the pair.  

[rocketdoctor]

56 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Really intrigued by this Zohorna. He might just be the top 9 guy we are looking for.

 

Zadorov has been getting a lot of looks in the top 4 in preseason which is interesting. 

Hopefully this might mean Eakin and Milano are done.

 

Zohorna is an interesting pick up.    Backlund not in tonight so I think Ruzicka is placeholder.

 

4th line of Lewis Rooney Looch/Ritchie  I could live with.  

 

Carry Ruzicka / Ritchie as the extra Fwds.

 

3rd line of Zohorna Backlund Coleman.