Jonathan Huberdeau

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Flames have. Lindholm. He was a 45pt player in Carolina. He's put up seasons with 78 and 82 in Calgary. His lowest point total was the 56 game season and it's still higher than any total he had in Carolina. Never scored 20 in CAR, he has three seasons of more than 20 here and 19 in the Canadian division season, which was obviously only 56 games.

you're helping my point exactly. He wasn't that player in Carolina. Although, used differently, he's done great here. Never was knocking him at all. Just saying it's a situation where he signs what he felt he was worth. Imagine how much lower the Canes might have offered him or weren't willing to pay. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Flames have. Lindholm. He was a 45pt player in Carolina. He's put up seasons with 78 and 82 in Calgary. His lowest point total was the 56 game season and it's still higher than any total he had in Carolina. Never scored 20 in CAR, he has three seasons of more than 20 here and 19 in the Canadian division season, which was obviously only 56 games.

 

oops... yup but we gave up Hamilton in the deal.

[tmac70]

8 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I get everybody's apprehension . I mean we just got burned twice .  But I'll say i see no red flags that this will end badly .. 

- he's stated he's open to long term 

- his agent backed him up and is apparently already talking

- he's making a point of reaching out to the city 

- he may not have waived his NTC but we werent even on his list to begin with.. most players who want to stay in the US full their list with all Canadian teams ..

- obviously term and $ are important, but I see no reason to believe we'd lowball the guy 

 

Let's get the guy into the city and actually meet his teammates and coaches before we assume he's already buying a one way ticket out of town 

100% agree. 

[tmac70]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

we were told there were no red flags coming into this off-season all the last 3 years. Many of us on the trade Johnny front saw it coming. It's easy to look at the situation and say, he almost signed and then almost signed again. Truth is, he fled. 
 

i hope they sign. Hockey players are nice. They are taught to say "the right thing." Just speak the truth at least to the GM. If I were huberdeau I'd not sign. I'd not see the Flames as a contender. Maybe with him and Weegar we are a bit closer, but there are holes in the lineup that really got exposed last playoff. Injuries happen to every team in the playoffs. If an injury breaks you, it means the team isn't deep enough. Deep teams go deeper.

There more now with him and Weegar, than Chucky in FLA. Hubuerdeau is now your new face of the franchise, short term maybe but he is the GUY, never was in FLA. So here is the issue we have holes Tre fills them the best he can and if it fails, its piss poor assest mangement. He does nothing its piss poor management. He trades picks to get players doesn't work piss poor management. Trades for a player, 2 weeks in season ending injury, piss poor mangagement. 

 

For the record here is wehre I stand. The fact is a that business people take chances and if they don't work out they start over. They make decsions for now or the future. The anwers that need to be asked are we closer to contending or rebuild? IMHO a few pieces to add you contend, that window will be a 2-3 max window if things align correctly with extentions. So here is the magic question if Tre goes all in trades some firsts and prospects to get the pieces we need to take a run are you supporting that decision?  

 

 

[robrob74]

12 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There more now with him and Weegar, than Chucky in FLA. Hubuerdeau is now your new face of the franchise, short term maybe but he is the GUY, never was in FLA. So here is the issue we have holes Tre fills them the best he can and if it fails, its piss poor assest mangement. He does nothing its piss poor management. He trades picks to get players doesn't work piss poor management. Trades for a player, 2 weeks in season ending injury, piss poor mangagement. 

 

For the record here is wehre I stand. The fact is a that business people take chances and if they don't work out they start over. They make decsions for now or the future. The anwers that need to be asked are we closer to contending or rebuild? IMHO a few pieces to add you contend, that window will be a 2-3 max window if things align correctly with extentions. So here is the magic question if Tre goes all in trades some firsts and prospects to get the pieces we need to take a run are you supporting that decision?  

 

 

 

i did last year because the team was all in. I wanted them to trade these guys either before the season last year or the two previous years. I support the Tkachuk trade as well. Worst case scenario is we were losing Tkachuk anyway next year. Say we trade one year of one big piece for possibly one year if two big pieces and got a prospect that'll probably play third line. And we got a 1st. Not bad at all. I'm with others who want term players but realistically we could've lost both Johnny and matty for nothing. 
 

so all in. I assume we trade at the deadline like we did last season. I'll still cheer them on. I hope with Huberdeau that we can penetrate that slot area which seemed hard to do with Gaudreau.

[phoenix66]

22 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There more now with him and Weegar, than Chucky in FLA. Hubuerdeau is now your new face of the franchise, short term maybe but he is the GUY, never was in FLA. So here is the issue we have holes Tre fills them the best he can and if it fails, its piss poor assest mangement. He does nothing its piss poor management. He trades picks to get players doesn't work piss poor management. Trades for a player, 2 weeks in season ending injury, piss poor mangagement. 

 

For the record here is wehre I stand. The fact is a that business people take chances and if they don't work out they start over. They make decsions for now or the future. The anwers that need to be asked are we closer to contending or rebuild? IMHO a few pieces to add you contend, that window will be a 2-3 max window if things align correctly with extentions. So here is the magic question if Tre goes all in trades some firsts and prospects to get the pieces we need to take a run are you supporting that decision?  

 

 

I'm 100% in..  I feel you have to be. I could care less about the 23-24 season right now .. 

Look at teams who've done it"right".. like say Vancouver in the early 2000s.. stacked team.. presidents trophy ..  all they got out of it was one scf appearance...  San Jose.. years of being a perennial contender .  One SCF appearance...  Edmonton shouid be a powerhouse after all those years of top picks .. they're just now , with a megastar..getting some respect.. 

I believe in stocking the pipeline ..but we got players ..nearing the peak of their careers on amazing contracts ..you have to use that window 

 

And I shouid add , unless I'm missing somebody.. BT has never traded a top prospect.. picks yes . Players like fox who wasnt signing.. but he's kept the prospects developing in the system and has seen the rewards of that with Anderson, Mangiapane, kyllington, Dube etc .  And there's another wave knocking on the door 

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i did last year because the team was all in. I wanted them to trade these guys either before the season last year or the two previous years. I support the Tkachuk trade as well. Worst case scenario is we were losing Tkachuk anyway next year. Say we trade one year of one big piece for possibly one year if two big pieces and got a prospect that'll probably play third line. And we got a 1st. Not bad at all. I'm with others who want term players but realistically we could've lost both Johnny and matty for nothing. 
 

so all in. I assume we trade at the deadline like we did last season. I'll still cheer them on. I hope with Huberdeau that we can penetrate that slot area which seemed hard to do with Gaudreau.

With the addtions we have IMHO we could be more of a threat with a couple of pieces moved out and in, than last season. There is no and I mean no one seen Hubredeau or Weegar coming back on a trade for Chucky. For me there add Tre should be pounding the phones to get pieces in place to take a run. I would be more for it this year than I was last

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

you're helping my point exactly. He wasn't that player in Carolina. Although, used differently, he's done great here. Never was knocking him at all. Just saying it's a situation where he signs what he felt he was worth. Imagine how much lower the Canes might have offered him or weren't willing to pay. 

If I recall correctly they were having a contract dispute and we signed him so quick cuz we just gave him what he was asking Carolina for ..so they were less than that ..

Same with Hamilton.. we gave him what Boston didn't ... Tho Boston later said they offered the same .. 

[phoenix66]

9 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

With the addtions we have IMHO we could be more of a threat with a couple of pieces moved out and in, than last season. There is no and I mean no one seen Hubredeau or Weegar coming back on a trade for Chucky. For me there add Tre should be pounding the phones to get pieces in place to take a run. I would be more for it this year than I was last

Yup, i whole heartedly believe that we are a better team right now than the team that played game 5 vs Edmonton.. huberdeau brings everything Johnny did and more .. yes we lost the tkachuk edge but I still believe like I did then he became a detriment when the game got fast . And we just improved our transition game and better d againt the Rush.

I wouid have made that exact trade for Chucky without Huberdeau and called it fair return 

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

With the addtions we have IMHO we could be more of a threat with a couple of pieces moved out and in, than last season. There is no and I mean no one seen Hubredeau or Weegar coming back on a trade for Chucky. For me there add Tre should be pounding the phones to get pieces in place to take a run. I would be more for it this year than I was last

 

29 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There more now with him and Weegar, than Chucky in FLA. Hubuerdeau is now your new face of the franchise, short term maybe but he is the GUY, never was in FLA. So here is the issue we have holes Tre fills them the best he can and if it fails, its piss poor assest mangement. He does nothing its piss poor management. He trades picks to get players doesn't work piss poor management. Trades for a player, 2 weeks in season ending injury, piss poor mangagement. 

 

For the record here is wehre I stand. The fact is a that business people take chances and if they don't work out they start over. They make decsions for now or the future. The anwers that need to be asked are we closer to contending or rebuild? IMHO a few pieces to add you contend, that window will be a 2-3 max window if things align correctly with extentions. So here is the magic question if Tre goes all in trades some firsts and prospects to get the pieces we need to take a run are you supporting that decision?  

 

 

 

Okay, so you feel we are close, with may 2-3 years to be in that spot.  I actually think that extends a bit longer, assuming we sign the new guys.  We don't have the big name prospects that other teams have drafted, but that's just scouts raving about them right now.  Most of the last 2 years top guys haven't played a single pro game.  The best ones are in the NHL and part of the team.  The rest are in the same boat that Mangiapane was when he finished his OHL career, or Pelletier was last year.  They have to prove it.

 

The majority of the team is less than 30.  When we plug the couple holes, we are bringing in 25-27 year old as vets or rookies like Pelletier and Ruzicka.  Wolf has a bit of time to wait, since we may have a future starter in Vladar.  

 

All I am saying is that the path to contender is clearer.  Smart trades and signings will help.  The work ethic replaced the old lazy play.  Even Tkachuk and JG had some times when they got frustrated or spent too much time on things that didn't matter.  Whining at the refs.  Messing with a goalie and fighting others.  

[conundrumed]

29 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Yup, i whole heartedly believe that we are a better team right now than the team that played game 5 vs Edmonton.. huberdeau brings everything Johnny did and more .. yes we lost the tkachuk edge but I still believe like I did then he became a detriment when the game got fast . And we just improved our transition game and better d againt the Rush.

I wouid have made that exact trade for Chucky without Huberdeau and called it fair return 

I generally agree. My brother broke this news to me when I was working too much. He's a Bruins guy so I thought for sure that he was pulling a dick move, knowing FLA's my third team, probably.

That return is massive for a player I see as a good player, but not franchise-altering vs the return..

[tmac70]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Okay, so you feel we are close, with may 2-3 years to be in that spot.  I actually think that extends a bit longer, assuming we sign the new guys.  We don't have the big name prospects that other teams have drafted, but that's just scouts raving about them right now.  Most of the last 2 years top guys haven't played a single pro game.  The best ones are in the NHL and part of the team.  The rest are in the same boat that Mangiapane was when he finished his OHL career, or Pelletier was last year.  They have to prove it.

 

The majority of the team is less than 30.  When we plug the couple holes, we are bringing in 25-27 year old as vets or rookies like Pelletier and Ruzicka.  Wolf has a bit of time to wait, since we may have a future starter in Vladar.  

 

All I am saying is that the path to contender is clearer.  Smart trades and signings will help.  The work ethic replaced the old lazy play.  Even Tkachuk and JG had some times when they got frustrated or spent too much time on things that didn't matter.  Whining at the refs.  Messing with a goalie and fighting others.  

The pieces we require are not in our system, and won't be anytime soon. For me if Tre goes for it this year I am fine with it. We just got  players that want to be on a contending team than show them your making every effort to make a push, Take your shot now as it may not come again for a long long time. 

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The pieces we require are not in our system, and won't be anytime soon. For me if Tre goes for it this year I am fine with it. We just got  players that want to be on a contending team than show them your making every effort to make a push, Take your shot now as it may not come again for a long long time. 

I agree, but I'll add that there is such a thing as, "too much change". That part worries me a bit. It's a world of change already.

I think we need to see the current product of those changes. Read the holes then.

Huberdeau vs Gaudreau is a massive shift imho. 2 elite LWers for completely different reasons.

[tmac70]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I agree, but I'll add that there is such a thing as, "too much change". That part worries me a bit. It's a world of change already.

I think we need to see the current product of those changes. Read the holes then.

Huberdeau vs Gaudreau is a massive shift imho. 2 elite LWers for completely different reasons.

Totally, Many may not agree but Kadri for me checks the aggitaion and scoring, speed, Skill to a small degree of Chucky, Veteran has won a cup and plays a 200 ft game. I am not saying he is the final or perfect add but an add like that moves the needle even higher IMHO. look what getting Carter did for LA that year. A 2nd line center, with a bottom nine winger we reallymove the needle. Lindholm, Kadri, Backs Rozie as a 4th line center  looks pretty sound.  You also can not put worth on experiance either. A good 2nd, 3rd line winger that could push 20-30 goals would really balance this roster. Creating more energy in a postive way in the room, will create more energy on the ice, and around the orgainzation. We can't change he location of the team, the status of the rink but you can control whats on the ice, so focus your energy there. 

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Totally, Many may not agree but Kadri for me checks the aggitaion and scoring, speed, Skill to a small degree of Chucky, Veteran has won a cup and plays a 200 ft game. I am not saying he is the final or perfect add but an add like that moves the needle even higher IMHO. look what getting Carter did for LA that year. A 2nd line center, with a bottom nine winger we reallymove the needle. Lindholm, Kadri, Backs Rozie as a 4th line center  looks pretty sound.  You also can not put worth on experiance either. A good 2nd, 3rd line winger that could push 20-30 goals would really balance this roster. Creating more energy in a postive way in the room, will create more energy on the ice, and around the orgainzation. We can't change he location of the team, the status of the rink but you can control whats on the ice, so focus your energy there. 

I agree to an extent. He would become a cap issue for next year. That's the main reason that I say no. Not that I don't love the idea.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The pieces we require are not in our system, and won't be anytime soon. For me if Tre goes for it this year I am fine with it. We just got  players that want to be on a contending team than show them your making every effort to make a push, Take your shot now as it may not come again for a long long time. 

 

To a certain extent you need both.  Players to build their way up and new pieces brought on.  I would love to see a move from the excess D to the C spot.  But, I also think that we have several impact players that many discount.  If Pelletier can come in and pot 5-10 goals and 20 assists, that would be a win.  I don't think it's too far to suggest that he can do that.  10 goals seems like meh, but the 20 assists is what I am thinking really matters.  He's a playmaker.  Has the wheeils to get around.  Has the compete level of Mangiapane.  Was one of the top players in the AHL.  

 

Let's put it this way, the prospects won't be playing the season unless they show they can do it.  Ruzicka was sent down because we had no roster spot for him, even though Sutter wanted him for 3C.  IN a limited role, he still put up decent numbers.  Contenders are able to roll these guys into the lineup and cut their teeth.  Any spot they earn they have to show why they are better than an aging vet or replacement vet.    Kylington did that after a yeear where he was waived and sent down.  Mangiapne started on the team twice before he took hold.  

[phoenix66]

This is a great highlight package to watch for anybody not yet sure why this is a major step up from Johnny.. so many just plain sick moves from the dirty areas Johnny avoided.. one of our weaknesses last year was creating plays in tight like this ..

 

 

[robrob74]

17 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Totally, Many may not agree but Kadri for me checks the aggitaion and scoring, speed, Skill to a small degree of Chucky, Veteran has won a cup and plays a 200 ft game. I am not saying he is the final or perfect add but an add like that moves the needle even higher IMHO. look what getting Carter did for LA that year. A 2nd line center, with a bottom nine winger we reallymove the needle. Lindholm, Kadri, Backs Rozie as a 4th line center  looks pretty sound.  You also can not put worth on experiance either. A good 2nd, 3rd line winger that could push 20-30 goals would really balance this roster. Creating more energy in a postive way in the room, will create more energy on the ice, and around the orgainzation. We can't change he location of the team, the status of the rink but you can control whats on the ice, so focus your energy there. 

 

wasnt bozak quiet but effective the year the Blues won the cup? Not saying he's the reason, but like you say, there needs to be solid play in the bottom 6. Bonino isn't someone people would have been clamouring for but ended up solid for the pens 3rd line in their recent cup. They were deep on forward and were able to play Kessel on that line, but needed a bit more from a 3rd line. 
 

I agree, if we can get Kadri, it's a good idea. I don't know which D goes, but making room would be great! Unless there's another playmaker out there, we could do well to aim for one. If we can get another playmaking forward, I think that's what we missed a lot of last season. Do they have to be a C? If we got another passing winger, maybe we can still get a few good years out of Backlund?

 

Hube, Lindy, Toffey

Cole, Backs, Mang

Kylington?, Ruzi, Dubes
Looch, Rooney, Lewy

 

if Ruz can make the third line, all we need is a good third LW/RW option. Could Ruzicka be a good winger? 
 

 

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

wasnt bozak quiet but effective the year the Blues won the cup? Not saying he's the reason, but like you say, there needs to be solid play in the bottom 6. Bonino isn't someone people would have been clamouring for but ended up solid for the pens 3rd line in their recent cup. They were deep on forward and were able to play Kessel on that line, but needed a bit more from a 3rd line. 
 

I agree, if we can get Kadri, it's a good idea. I don't know which D goes, but making room would be great! Unless there's another playmaker out there, we could do well to aim for one. If we can get another playmaking forward, I think that's what we missed a lot of last season. Do they have to be a C? If we got another passing winger, maybe we can still get a few good years out of Backlund?

 

Hube, Lindy, Toffey

Cole, Backs, Mang

Kylington?, Ruzi, Dubes
Looch, Rooney, Lewy

 

if Ruz can make the third line, all we need is a good third LW/RW option. Could Ruzicka be a good winger? 
 

 

 

If we had Kadri, then we have essentially what COL had.  2 scoring lines and an elite shutdown line.  I only support a Kadri add if it doesn't kill our cap for years to come.  $6M x 5 is low, but would not kill us right away.  Lines up with Mangiapane.  Means we have to trade Kyl or Hanifin, but that's just a guess on cap but an observation on excess D.  

 

If you want to maintain contender status for longer than just last year, you have to have multiple scoring lines and ability to replace guys as they get older with young guys that have built up their stock.  Toffoli replaced by Coronato at some point.  Backlund replaced by a strong two way C.  Tanev replaced by Mackey.  Etc.  

 

And yes, I feel we were in the contender status last year and can maintain that by smart moves or young guys stepping up in committee.  

 

EDIT - I should have prefaced this with "Kadri-like" player.  Doesn't have to be Kadri exactly.  An impact player for sure.  May be the result of a trade of a D.  

[robrob74]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

To a certain extent you need both.  Players to build their way up and new pieces brought on.  I would love to see a move from the excess D to the C spot.  But, I also think that we have several impact players that many discount.  If Pelletier can come in and pot 5-10 goals and 20 assists, that would be a win.  I don't think it's too far to suggest that he can do that.  10 goals seems like meh, but the 20 assists is what I am thinking really matters.  He's a playmaker.  Has the wheeils to get around.  Has the compete level of Mangiapane.  Was one of the top players in the AHL.  

 

Let's put it this way, the prospects won't be playing the season unless they show they can do it.  Ruzicka was sent down because we had no roster spot for him, even though Sutter wanted him for 3C.  IN a limited role, he still put up decent numbers.  Contenders are able to roll these guys into the lineup and cut their teeth.  Any spot they earn they have to show why they are better than an aging vet or replacement vet.    Kylington did that after a yeear where he was waived and sent down.  Mangiapne started on the team twice before he took hold.  

 

for me, my only concern with him will be his transition from youth-body to man-body. It's why I felt Dube was brought up a bit too soon. He's still getting knocked around and falling a lot. Granted he's quick to get up. Maybe Pelletier has a lower center of gravity to his skating. But that's my concern with smaller guys. I think Mang was like that earlier in his career, but has worked his way into good skating . 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

for me, my only concern with him will be his transition from youth-body to man-body. It's why I felt Dube was brought up a bit too soon. He's still getting knocked around and falling a lot. Granted he's quick to get up. Maybe Pelletier has a lower center of gravity to his skating. But that's my concern with smaller guys. I think Mang was like that earlier in his career, but has worked his way into good skating . 

 

Dube had that "too good for the AHL" look, so I can understand why.  I think part of the problem with Dube is he studied under the Bennett world of playing F.  Attack directly with the puck.  Go through instead of around.  

 

Pelletier is going to look more like a Gaudreau than a power forward.  He won't shy away, but his game is more playmaker than run over.  For a slighly smaller F, they need to have escape velocity.  But to put things in perspective, he is bascially the same size as Dube and Mange.  1 inch shorter and 4 to 7 pounds lighter.  

[The_Tribal Chief]

Just some Information for my flames Fans Friends if any of you are interested next year in some Street Hockey Sponsored by Your Calgary Flames Foundatuon and Rogers Sportnets Cbc it is really Fun event to play i just played it pretty sore in the muscles but that is to be expected i dont work out like that but never had that much fun in a fricken long time

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Dube had that "too good for the AHL" look, so I can understand why.  I think part of the problem with Dube is he studied under the Bennett world of playing F.  Attack directly with the puck.  Go through instead of around.  

 

Pelletier is going to look more like a Gaudreau than a power forward.  He won't shy away, but his game is more playmaker than run over.  For a slighly smaller F, they need to have escape velocity.  But to put things in perspective, he is bascially the same size as Dube and Mange.  1 inch shorter and 4 to 7 pounds lighter.  

 

yup, I think that's good or fair size. I get that about both, being too good. Mangiapane was brought in the way a lot on here want prospects to be brought in. 4th line, worked his way up. It's been great seeing it. Is Pelletier ready for it?

 

is Backlund that player still that mentors young players?

 

after looking at the roster, if we are ok with Backs being #2C again, we are really a 3rd line C or Winger away. But needs to be a passer. 

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Just some Information for my flames Fans Friends if any of you are interested next year in some Street Hockey Sponsored by Your Calgary Flames Foundatuon and Rogers Sportnets Cbc it is really Fun event to play i just played it pretty sore in the muscles but that is to be expected i dont work out like that but never had that much fun in a fricken long time

 

I used to love playing sports. That stop and go stuff hurts the muscles on the outside of your calves, and is a great core workout. Always sore nowadays. I now understand why the kids that didn't like sports had such a hard time with it. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

im getting back into it enjoyed it this year going back next year