2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Very nice,

 

 

 

Cap friendly had a weird look to it.  May just be because they don't have full details yet.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Our RW depth is bad, that's true.  Toffoli helped this, and yes we're still one short.   But I don't believe Pulj would truly help this.  For the same reasons some on here feel Kylington/Valimaki aren't helping D.   We are short on the elite end, more than the support end.

 

D is complex, I agree.    I guess it comes down to how one projects Kylington and Valimaki.   Neither are in their prime yet, and could potentially move up a level or 2.   Pulj imho is less likely to do so, he's sort of past that age for a winger (even though they are all the same age).

 

For that reason I think D for Pulj ultimately results in a loss of potential, as well as a loss positionally.   Now, if Valimaki or Kylington are known to have peaked, then all this changes.  For example, if Valimaki is injured and unlikely to get better.   We're not privy to this, so I assume it to be not the case.

 

But yes, I do agree our "excess" D is really an excess of bubble D.   Only true as long as every player stays healthy, though.

 

Toffoli didn't mesh well with anyone last season so there are reasons to worry about him.  I hope Huberdeau or Kadri can change that.  If not, boy, Toffoli is a 4th liner.

 

After that, we're sort of hoping Mangiapane can make a successful move to RW.   He's never done well on that side.  Tkachuk made a switch so maybe Mangiapane can too.

 

Coleman can play RW but his offense is very limited.

 

Dube is our last hope but he's just too weak and gets bumped off the puck too easily.  I'd trade Dube for Puljujarvi without hesitation and use Puljujarvi where we use Dube.

 

It's just a sad state overall on RW.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Cap friendly had a weird look to it.  May just be because they don't have full details yet.

 

Ya now that Ruzicka is on a two-way, then he likely starts the season on the farm.  We have too many NHL contacts to begin with so he's the odd man out.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya now that Ruzicka is on a two-way, then he likely starts the season on the farm.  We have too many NHL contacts to begin with so he's the odd man out.

 

That makes no sense.  Ruzicka is a rookie, and right now including him we have 12 signed waiver eligible players signed.  Ritchie makes 13 and Milano makes 14.  Pelletier is listed on the cap as part of the main group, but he's exempt.  If they sign Ritchie and Milano, Pelletier starts on the farm.  Same way Ruzie was sent down at the TDL.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That makes no sense.  Ruzicka is a rookie, and right now including him we have 12 signed waiver eligible players signed.  Ritchie makes 13 and Milano makes 14.  Pelletier is listed on the cap as part of the main group, but he's exempt.  If they sign Ritchie and Milano, Pelletier starts on the farm.  Same way Ruzie was sent down at the TDL.

 

Trues enough.  Pelletier is waiver exempt so he will be the first casualty.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Trues enough.  Pelletier is waiver exempt so he will be the first casualty.

 

Yeah, wasn't snapping at you.  I assume you thought Ruzie was exempt.  No way does he manage to clear waivers, so I don't think he is bound for the farm.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think alot of people are putting too much into the "stud D" ideology.  The definition itself is so subjective but if you limit it to Norris worthy then how many d-men is that? 6? 10?  AFAIC chemistry and balance far outweigh the need for a stud D-man. Sure the Bolts have Hedman and Makar seems to be the real deal but lets not forget the Flames recently had a Norris winning d man on the roster with very limited success. I'm more confidant in the current d squad than that one.

my issue is more that we need a stud Defensive defensemen that can add offence too. It's a unicorn. Shea Weber never won a cup, but look at what he did for the Canadiens in a short time. I'm going to get arguments against a guy like that, or that we have Tanev. I could see ya needing a guy like that for the first pair. Maybe it is Weegar?
 

Last year I saw him play a few games on nhl live and thought I wish the flames drafted that guy... well, BT stole him from the Panthers. 
 

so, who is out there that can provide a good D presence?

 

Ekblad for Andersson+? 

[The_People1]

Our RW is so sad that at some point we may have to try,

 

Huberdeau - Kadri - Lindholm

Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

 

This has potential to give us a 1st line as good as last season.  We top load and our second line is the same as last season.

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Toffoli didn't mesh well with anyone last season so there are reasons to worry about him.  I hope Huberdeau or Kadri can change that.  If not, boy, Toffoli is a 4th liner.

 

After that, we're sort of hoping Mangiapane can make a successful move to RW.   He's never done well on that side.  Tkachuk made a switch so maybe Mangiapane can too.

 

Coleman can play RW but his offense is very limited.

 

Dube is our last hope but he's just too weak and gets bumped off the puck too easily.  I'd trade Dube for Puljujarvi without hesitation and use Puljujarvi where we use Dube.

 

It's just a sad state overall on RW.

ya, maybe Dube can strengthen his lower center of gravity, but I just don't see it. To me he feels a bit like Bennett, tries to do too much with the puck.
 

The reason I like Huberdeau more than Gaudreau is he doesn't hold onto the puck long. Deking through is fun to watch but not when they get pinned off the puck after entering the zone. Or when they take too long to decide on a pass.... I wonder if Dube tends to do that too often and maybe a Huberdeau could be good for his development to have the puck for a second or less? That could keep him from getting pinned and falling? 
 

but I don't like the idea of him because he's knocked off the puck so often. I'd also do Dube for Pulj

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Our RW is so sad that at some point we may have to try,

 

Huberdeau - Kadri - Lindholm

Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

 

This has potential to give us a 1st line as good as last season.  We top load and our second line is the same as last season.

yikes! Is Ruz good enough for 3rd line duty?

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Our RW is so sad that at some point we may have to try,

 

Huberdeau - Kadri - Lindholm

Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman

 

This has potential to give us a 1st line as good as last season.  We top load and our second line is the same as last season.

 

I think that the Flames are lacking in RHS, more than lacking in RW depth.  As long as you have LHS that can play RW as well as they do LW, the point is moot.  What we are truly lacking is RHS C's.  

 

Maybe I am jumping ahead, but if we sign Milano, then we just need Mangiapane to be able to play RW on the Hubie line.  That leaves Milano-Kadri-Toffoli as #2.  I'm not super happy with the 3rd line of Coleman-Backlund-Dube, but that's the way it looks unless we make a trade or Use Ruzie-Backlund-Coleman.  I think Sutter prefers a bigger winger than Dube up there.  But I could be wrong.  That way you have Lucic-Dube/Rooney-Lewis as your 4th.  Enough big guys to help out Dube with possession.

[LouCifer]

Wow. "D" has really become a topic here eh? 😂 Well, for those of you looking for that stud #1 D, maybe we already have him... check the link. 

Why MacKenzie Weegar could be a steal — and No. 1 defenceman — for Calgary (sportsnet.ca)

 

 

 

As far as RW is concerned, I think the Flames should be looking into Tanner Jeannot, Victor Olofson (LS RW), and Oliver Bjorkstrand. I know Seattle just acquired Bjorkstrand for magic beans (only a 3rd and 4th round pick), but maybe they can parlay those magic beans into more than just a single player if that would interest them... I'd be willing to offer SEA a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal for Bjorkstrand. Dube + Valimaki + a pick or prospect. 

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Wow. "D" has really become a topic here eh? 😂 Well, for those of you looking for that stud #1 D, maybe we already have him... check the link. 

Why MacKenzie Weegar could be a steal — and No. 1 defenceman — for Calgary (sportsnet.ca)

 

My 2 biggest takeaways from this discussion.

1- I don't think many have a good read on who Weegar is as a dman. 

2 - a real lack of understanding about why the Flames actually lost to the Oilers last year. 

 

The Flames are not perfect on paper by any means but expectations about what they should have are pretty unrealistic on here IMO. 

[cross16]

According to Puckpedia Ritchie deal is done. Flames have not confirmed and all Treliving said was he expected an announcement "soon"

 

 

[cross16]

According to Treliving, they are pausing on looking to upgrade at forward. Says they want to see how camp shakes out.

 

So likely no deal imminent. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

According to Treliving, they are pausing on looking to upgrade at forward. Says they want to see how camp shakes out.

 

So likely no deal imminent. 

 

Makes sense.  A lot of players for Sutter to evaluate.  We may already have a "new" top 6 or middle 6 player at camp.  BT probably also wants to see which D, if any, push their way onto the roster.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

According to Puckpedia Ritchie deal is done. Flames have not confirmed and all Treliving said was he expected an announcement "soon"

 

 

 

Interesting.  I am a Ritchie fan but I was hoping they would let a kid graduate onto 4th line RW like Duehr, Pospisil, Klapka, or even Schwindt... That's 4 kids potentially better than Ritchie.

[tmac70]

One thing for sure there is a ton of competition for wingers. I think your top 3 Centers are in place with Lindy, Kadri and Backs. Wingers is a huge battle this year as is D. Sutter loveshis vets so a new guy is going to have to knock it out of the park and than some to make it. It will be intersting to see what happens over the next few days. 

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

One thing for sure there is a ton of competition for wingers. I think your top 3 Centers are in place with Lindy, Kadri and Backs. Wingers is a huge battle this year as is D. Sutter loveshis vets so a new guy is going to have to knock it out of the park and than some to make it. It will be intersting to see what happens over the next few days. 

I’m hoping Rozie makes it happen this year, 6’4”/200lbs is a good look and he’s got a good shot. Problem being I NEVER remember him playing any wing. Always center.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I’m hoping Rozie makes it happen this year, 6’4”/200lbs is a good look and he’s got a good shot. Problem being I NEVER remember him playing any wing. Always center.

 

That is true.  He even said he hasn't played it in his career (IIRC).  But, that's the thing.  You sometimes have to adapt.  Is it better to be fighting for a 4th line C role or fighting for a 3rd line winger role.  If he was able to play win with Backlund, he would be improving his chances of making the team out of camp.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Interesting.  I am a Ritchie fan but I was hoping they would let a kid graduate onto 4th line RW like Duehr, Pospisil, Klapka, or even Schwindt... That's 4 kids potentially better than Ritchie.

 

It is a minimum deal so pretty easy to send to the AHL and with the team being located in Calgary i'm thinking they may plan to use that as a bit of taxi squad. 

 

I'm not really a fan of Ritchie but he was a Sutter favorite and sometimes you just have to give your coach want he wants but given the new set up with their farm team I think the Flames also have options to turnover their depth more frequently than in the past. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Interesting.  I am a Ritchie fan but I was hoping they would let a kid graduate onto 4th line RW like Duehr, Pospisil, Klapka, or even Schwindt... That's 4 kids potentially better than Ritchie.

At least if a kid beats him out we won't need him. But he's good for games when toughness is needed. So could be a case where he only plays those games. Although I think Sutter likes him because he's plays Sutter's system and simplifies the game. Do this, and he does...

[bosn111]

My point about looking for a more suitable LD to play with Andersson was never a knock against Weegar in the slightest, nor was I forgetting cap. I also realize that I left off Kylington, Valimaki, Zadorov, Meloche and Mackey. 1 of those 5 would be the current “young guy” playing with Tanev, 1 likely a 7th D and Stone may be signed as 8 D meaning the other 4 would be trade fodder or hope they clear waivers which would be unlikely for a few of them at least.

 

Weegar / Andersson 

Hanifin / Tanev

Zadorov / Meloche

Kylington / Stone

 

While this appears to be the more likely current scenario (I believe Stone gets signed once a few D get moved), is this actually the best choice?

 

High LD / Andersson 

Hanifin / Weegar

Zadorov / Tanev

Kylington / Meloche or Stone

 

would be a deeper D corps as you would have 3 top pair D plus Hanifin who could play top pair but is better as 2nd pair and a third pair which could be a middle pair on a number of teams and a 7th D who is basically a 2nd pair and your 8D would be 3rd pair on many teams.
 

Essentially looking at a current depth of

 

1st pair Andersson, Weegar

1/2 pair Hanifin

2nd pair Tanev, 
2/3 pair Zadorov, Kylington 

3rd pair Meloche,

3/7th Stone (if signed), Mackey

?? Valimaki (camp may show where he could be )
 

Very good competition to have, but it could be better. No knock on any individual, it is simply how I see the depth. No harm in hoping for an improvement if possible.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

According to Treliving, they are pausing on looking to upgrade at forward. Says they want to see how camp shakes out.

 

So likely no deal imminent. 

 

i think that is probably GM speak for the fact that there probably hasn't been deals out there to upgrade at forward. 
we have the assets but if the deal isn't right, plus teams might know what's up after training camp. 
 

i just hope BT can get a Weegar deal done. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think that is probably GM speak for the fact that there probably hasn't been deals out there to upgrade at forward. 
we have the assets but if the deal isn't right, plus teams might know what's up after training camp. 
 

i just hope BT can get a Weegar deal done.