bosn111

After tonight, Flames now will enter the draft lottery in 8-10 spot. Can only move up or down 1 spot with 2 games remaining. So top 10 pick unless a team outside of top 10 wins the lotto.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-excited-for-newcomer-ignatjew-s-potential Sigalet’s thoughts in the article.

1 year show us what you can do in North America deal? Likely spends most, if not all season with the Wranglers. I recall the Flames had a pretty good Finnish tendy before.

After tonight’s win, the Flames will go into the lottery somewhere in the 7 - 11 range. Only Seattle and Ottawa have a chance at passing the Flames in the standings, while Flames could catch NJ and Buffalo. Picture is becoming more clear on final standings. Edmonton is the only team with 3 games remaining, everyone else has 1 or 2. Jockeying for final seeding in playoffs/ draft is all that’s left for this week.

Not sure this is a needed trade right now. Calgary has almost 20 mil in cap space going into next season with only Kylington, Greer and Wolf looking for contracts. The Flames don’t need to move Kadri for cap space, and honestly would put the Flames around the cap floor. Moving any of Markstrom, Mangiapane, Kuzmenko, Andersson, Weegar, Backlund or Coleman without salary coming back would drop Calgary below the floor. The only good reason to spend well below the cap would be to use it in trades (retaining salary for other teams for example). Otherwise may as well use it on FAs. Should the Flames take a run at Reinhart, Guentzel, Necas, Middlestat or someone else? Would any of them likely be core pieces coming out of a rebuild in 3-5 years? Would any speed up the rebuild? Would they choose to be part of a rebuild? I’m not sure trading away cap (only real reason to move Kadri) is what the Flames need to do right now. Markstrom or Vladar to clear space for Wolf makes sense. Moving Mange from 3rd line to clear space for young guys like Pelletier or Coronato makes sense. Moving Anderson to clear space for prospects makes sense. Still need to add cap, but more reason than just clearing cap.

There is a lot of back and forth about the concept of keeping or trading certain players, and also whether trading established players for draft picks makes any sense. The easiest way to look at the discussion is like this: Who are players currently on the Flames roster who would be considered to be good mentors for young players? The answer will surprise a few people for sure one way or another. The argument for trading or keeping vets to mentor young guys should be based on the above. I know some fans want to stay loyal to players that have been with the team a while and have worked hard for the team (see Anderson, Backlund, Mangiapane). Loyalty is great when things are going well. Right now for the Flames, that is not the case. The Flames are in a major retool (maybe even rebuild) which isn’t even in question. So for a retool of this style, what do the Flames need? 1. Determine what the team identity will be. 2. Determine what players on the current roster fit and which don’t. 3. Determine what value any maybe players have for the team vs for another team. 4. Figure out what you have in prospects to know who is arriving on the big club, when, and what placeholders are needed to buy time. 5. Trade players who don’t match the identity and the players who are maybes but who are better value in trade than keep. I really like Anderson, he has done well and I never wanted him traded, but time is moving on. He is no longer under 25 and continuing to grow as a player. On many teams he is a top pair RD. The issue is that I have never heard or seen mentor as one of his strengths. If we are looking at what is best for the Flames in 3-5 years, I don’t see Ras at 33 years old + being a piece that works well, and value in trade will have gone down. This includes a new, higher contract. Weegar to me shows more mentor material. He is signed essentially to retirement and plays at a similar level to Ras. As a RD, Ras holds a high value in trade. Yes it would be a loss to move him, but getting a top 15 pick for him, or more in a package, holds more value in my opinion for down the road than keeping him. Mange has less value than Ras, alone not likely anything more than a 2nd, if that. Don’t dislike the player, but he is a stop gap in a retool, not a core piece. Vladar, Markstrom, Hanley, Greer, Rooney, even Kuzmenko fit in this category for me. Backlund as well as I think he retires as one of the last retool moves. Kadri and Huberdeau are sticking around a while due to contracts. They are complimentary pieces, not core. The current players I see as building blocks in the retool Weegar (veteran D mentor, good enough to play top pair another 5 years then slide down when passed until retirement). Coleman (Veteran middle 6, good mentor, re-sign to retirement contract in a couple years) Wolf (future 1 goalie) Miromanov, Pachal (likely both mid or bottom pair, but both seem good so far) Zary, Sharangovich (both stepping up at the right time) Any of the above could be considered core in the future, but that remains to be seen. Other possible pieces: (each on the list for different reasons) Kylington, Coronato, Pelletier, Pospisil, Poirier, Kuznetsov, Bruz, Solovyov, Grushnikov, Honzek. If the goal is to have competition to be the best lineup in 3-5 years, you need players who will be hitting their stride at that time, and enough options to choose the best. I see 3 F, 3D and 1 G as solid pieces moving forward with 2 F remaining due to contracts. Need another 8 F, 4 D and 1 G down the road. That’s why trading Anderson, Mange and Markstrom, even in package deals for high draft picks makes sense. More possibilities in 3-5 years. That’s my take anyway.

If the Flames were to trade the following players / combos, I think they could get First round picks in the top 15 this season (from the right teams). What teams should we target with each player prior to or on draft day? Markstrom Andersson Mangiapane + (what would need to be added to get to that 1st?) I would look at using prospects or later picks if it helps move Mange for a top 15 pick in the draft. Are Coronato, Poirier, Honzek, Stromgren going to be made available? Would they be enough? Looking for input as I would love to speed up the rebuild by getting 4 top 15 picks in a single draft. Would that be a new record?

I don’t follow a lot of Junior, so no idea really who to take in the draft so I won’t wade in too much here. Currently the Flames have the 9th overall pick with 9 games to go. Closer to picking 5th than 14th points wise. They also have a late 1st from Vancouver. From the discussion I have seen on here, and looking at Button’s standings (didn’t like him as GM but he is good at evaluating prospects), there are some interesting young players to hope for. What do the Flames have on the roster or in the pipe that could be moved for another top 15 pick? Teams who might be interested (Islanders, Devils, Senators, Kraken, Canadiens). I would think only possible players that could get a first on their own (likely not top 10) would be Weegar, Markstrom, Andersson, Wolf, maybe Zary. My thoughts would be to move Markstrom and Andersson (didn’t think I would say this one, if rebuilding…) but that is just me. Without a Lotto win, having 2 or even 3 picks in the 8-14 range could add solid prospects for the near future. 2 or 3 of Lindström, Iginla, Yakemchuck, Silayev, Greentree and Jiricek would provide significant hope for a few years from now. Could be interesting.

Cap space will be interesting next season. Doubtful that both Mangiapane and Kuzmenko get kept, and a good possibility that either Vladar or Markstrom get moved. Any of these players will bring back at least 1 draft pick each. This also would add significant cap space. Not much for high end centremen in FA this year, so you are likely needing to trade for one or use Sharangovich or Zary at C on the top line. I think the draft could be very interesting for the Flames this year.

Mange does owe the team. He owes play that matches his almost 6 million a year contract. It is easy to argue that he is not currently doing that, (not necessarily his fault). It is not a dislike of the player that fans consider trading him, but rather a consideration for chemistry, cap hit, and team direction. Mange is one of 6 players on the Flames currently under 6 feet, Coleman and Hanley at 5’11 both play bigger than they are. Trying to figure out Kuzmenko, while Coronato and Pelletier are just starting their careers. Most of the adds from Conroy thus far have added either size, high skill or both. I just don’t know where Mange at 5.8 per fits on this team. Huberdeau Zary? Sharangovich Pelletier Kadri Coronato (Kuzmenko / Mange) Backlund Coleman Greer Rooney Pospisil There is really only room for either Kuzmenko or Mange, though may go younger even and put Pospisil there and move both the older players, bring up another young guy like Ciona for the 4th line. If the youth movement is really on, Mange and Kuz are both 27/28, and neither are really mentor personalities from what I have seen (good teammates and good team players just not leaders). It is about team direction and where individual players fit.

So in the summer, the Flames now have new contracts to negotiate with: RFA Pelletier (1.5x1 for still RFA) Okhotiuk (min raise) Schwindt (min raise or cut loose) Klapka (min raise) Damiani (min raise) Jones (min raise or cut loose) Kuznetsov (Small raise) Solovyov (Small raise) Lyle (min raise or cut loose) Wolf (Raise depends on summer goalie situation, likely modest similar to Pelletier) UFA: Kylington (Likely hold close, small raise) Gilbert (likely walks) Greer (small raise, 850k x 2) Osterle (likely walks) Poolman (likely walks) Pysyk (likely walks) Dansk (min raise) Next year is much more complex. Interesting to see what happens.

With all the conditions on draft picks, what is now the ideal playoff picture / Flames position to maximize draft picks? Unless the Flames go on an absolute tear, they likely don’t risk Montreal getting a shot at this year’s first (Need to be picking 20-32 for that condition). 2025 and 2026 1sts depend on next year’s results, so no idea about those yet. If Dallas makes cup final, Flames add a 3rd in 2026. If Vegas wins 1 round in playoffs, 3rd in 2025 becomes 2nd in 2025. If Canucks make conference finals, 4th becomes a 3rd this year. So we want Dallas to beat Vancouver in the conference finals, and Vegas to win 1 round. So no first round between any of the 3 lol.

Osterle, Lemieux, Cormier, Raanta, and DeAngelo all cleared waivers. Lagesson to the Ducks, Katchouk to the Sens, Bjornfot to the Panthers. DeAngelo and Raanta likely cleared for cap reasons. Same reason Kuznetsov cleared waivers but Carolina traded for him with retention. Likely means Gilbert sticking around too. Deadline is here, now waiting on last announcements to come out officially.

I think Weegar/Andersson have been good together overall. Pachal and Kylington started making good chemistry so I would guess Hanley with Miromanov, but try Miro on the point for PP with Kylington. Interesting however it works out.

Bunch of Players on waivers today including Osterle. Doubt he gets claimed over Lagesson, DeAngelo. Lemieux or Katchouk could be interesting if they were signed past the summer, but don’t really blow anyone away. Raanta never really found his footing and at 26, Cormier has no NHL games and only modest stats in the ECHL and AHL. I don’t see the team grabbing another player off waivers today.

So with Hanifin gone, what will the D pairs look like going forward? Weegar Andersson Kylington Pachal Hanley Miromanov or Kylington Weegar Hanley Andersson Gilbert Pachal Not sure the best options.

Ok, so at worst the 1st rounder is for 2026 with a third (good chance at becoming a 2nd) and a 26 yo RSD with some NHL experience who is not necessarily going to wow you. Not a great haul, but could have been worse I guess. Gotta wait and see any other moves. With adding a few almost ready D, gives more competition to see who steps up. Will it be Miromanov, Kuznetsov, Solovyov, Grushnikov, Poirier, Jurmo, Brzustowicz? Conroy has basically gone from 3 possible future D to 7 in short order. Add Hanley and Pachal, both waiver pick ups signed for cheap the next 2 seasons and you now have the ability to walk away from or trade Gilbert and Osterle. We have Kylington, Hanley, Gilbert, and Osterle shooting left. Weegar, Andersson, Pachal, Miromanov shooting right. We will have to see how everything shakes out. But I think there are still moves coming (possibly Gilbert, Mangiapane, Markstrom, maybe even Rooney). Starting to see the Flames loading up on picks as well. A few posters asked for the tear down and build through the draft, well here they are torn pretty well down (at least on D) with a few place holders and prospects added. Add to it the young forwards already stepping up this season, the re-tool / re-build seems well underway.

Interesting picking up Hanley from Dallas. Essentially another roster player added to the Tanev trade. Not a big difference maker, but not bad for 6/7 D. Conroy basically loading up on options shotgun style. Pachal has been a bit of a bright spot, maybe Hanley or Grushnikov will shine a bit as well. This also opens further trade options. Gilbert and Osterle both UFA after this season. Osterle not likely getting any return, but Gilbert adds a little toughness at least. Maybe trade him as a cheap, toughness add to a competitive team that needs it for a late pick. Nothing earth shattering, but an extra pick never hurts. Hanley as a free pick up could always be waived, and no big loss if he is claimed. Options are a good thing, especially for league minimum essentially.

The question really around Markstrom remains the return that would be worth it, and which teams would be willing / able to make the move? It is clear that Markstrom will only waive his clause to go to a competitive team. This means a team that is likely making the playoffs. Those teams start at pick 16 in the draft. So even a 1st round pick from them doesn’t get you into the top 15, let alone top 10 picks. Markstrom won’t waive to go to a team where it would be a top 5 pick, let alone top 10. So if you aren’t getting a high first, then you need a very good young player / prospect. Contenders aren’t likely to give up solid young roster players as they are part of what got them to be contenders, so you are taking a shot at unproven prospects who weren’t good enough yet, or too young, to make the big club. According to “the fourth period”, Markstrom with 2 - 3 million retained for Holtz was the offer. No mention of draft picks and there was no inclusion of Vanacek. Sticking point was making salaries work, I don’t feel Holtz alone is enough if the Flames are retaining salary.

I agree Weegar would be great for Ottawa, but as you say, he is signed long term so I think he has high value for the Flames by staying. I did look at UFA D coming up, and there is little to be excited about for vets. You MAY have a chance at Montour, but why would he sign on to be a workhorse / placeholder on a rebuilding team? The same goes for any vet D the Flames might target in UFA. The only way you draw them in is by overpaying for them, so why not just keep the vet you already signed who is also a good example? To get a pick that may or may not make the team even in the next 4 years? Who may not ever be more than bottom pair on a good team? I know that unless Conroy pulls off some magic and the team next year just clicks, that the chances they do much next year is low. But I’m not just looking at the next year or 2. If we trade Weegar now, we are back to where we have been for the past decade (other than Giordano), a revolving door of D because nobody ever really gets set. For me, Weegar, Coleman, and Wolf are as close to untouchable as possible. Andersson, Sharangovich, and Zary are next. Follow that tier with Pospisil, Pelletier, Coronato, Honzek, Kuznetsov, Solovyov, and Poirier. Everyone else can be readily traded for fair price. Huberdeau, Kadri and Backlund are all unlikely to move unless they request a trade, so I didn’t include them on the list. We talk about asset management and when should players be moved, but we should also talk about when to keep them. The Flames have made mistakes both ways in the past. It would be a mistake, in my opinion, to move Weegar now unless he has asked for a trade.

This is an interesting discussion, and is one I am curious about. I know there are obviously different perspectives on it, but there seem to be some common threads. Peeps and likely someone else has said that trading Weegar now would bring a solid return, and the Flames could just sign a cheaper vet presence in the offseason to help the kids. Cross has now argued Ottawa could do the same thing instead of trading for Weegar. My question around this, based on a few things, is: what kind of veteran support do young players need? Some fans argue that a veteran voice, regardless of role, is enough to support the young guys, while others argue you need an example as well as a voice of where the young guys want to be. So which is it? Weegar is a vet who is skilled, hard working, and a good voice to bring along young D. Tanev is similar though less offensive skill more guys and defensive acumen. They aren’t just voices, they are examples of quality players as well. Hurdler was great for the young guys for the same reasons as Weegar while Coleman is in the Tanev mould. Historically good teams have had quality skill vets who insulated the young guys getting up to speed. An example is the Sedins started in the middle six with the West Coast Express taking the lead and pressure until the twins were ready to take over. Fleury came to prominence with the Flames following time behind Lanny, Mullen, Peplinsky, Gilmour, Nieuwendyk, etc. Conversely the Young Guns era of the 90s, derailed by some injuries, bad luck, and simply not enough talent, was only ended when the team went back to getting the proper veterans like Housley, Conroy, and Lowry. Yes Iginla helped, and Regehr, Kipper etc. but they had the right vets to support them. I would rather have Weegar and Coleman as team drivers, examples for the young guys, than be like the Oilers of the 2010s who tried to have the young guys guys charge ahead without success.

If we look at possible trade returns for our players, what would that equate to as picks coming back. Yes possibly prospects and players as well, but for this post, only looking at picks. Markstrom will only waive his NMC to go to a contender. This means a mid to late 1st round pick at best towards the draft. Nothing in the top 15. Few teams in contention are actually looking for a new starter, especially with term and big cap hit like Markstrom. Does Jersey think he is enough of a difference maker to get them into playoffs this year and in future years? Not sure who else would even be in the mix. Still not a high first rounder regardless. Hanifin is less interested in going to an immediate contender, more looking for long term, close to home, and a lifestyle. Could possibly find a lower achieving dance partner that would give up a higher pick, but I think his UFA status limits suitors. Tanev is going to a contender, likely as a rental, so late first rounder at best. Kadri, if moved, would only be to a contender, so again late first at best. Mangiapane is more of a complimentary trade piece rather than core, so alone may net a 2nd rounder. If you retained half salary, Huberdeau might get a decent draft pick, but Flames would never retain that much for that long in order to get any decent return. Andersson is best bet to get a higher 1st rounder. Teams like Ottawa, Montreal, Arizona, Buffalo and Anaheim who are middling low teams, but not bottom of the league, may be willing to move a 5-10 OA pick for Andersson, Maybe. Weegar is your best bet to get a high pick for the exact reason you don’t move him. So unless you can get Chicago or Buffalo to trade for Hanifin, I don’t see a trade that gets the Flames into the top 5, Andersson might get into top 10. But that is about all I see.

Yep, Weegar and Coleman are the 2 I see as mentors who will support the young guys without getting upset if someone passes them on the depth chart. Both have decent contracts (Weegar may be a tick high at the end but that depends on salary and cap inflation over the next 8 years). Backlund for a few more years as a good soldier and leadership place holder until the young guys can step in.

Markstrom will only go to a contender. That is not what Columbus is right now. Gaudreau left money on the table to sign in Columbus because it was closer to home (and likely he couldn’t get a deal done with a team he really wanted, this is just conjecture), and the less spotlight was good for him. Tkachuk, like many young stars, are looking for a certain lifestyle. The relative anonymity, nightlife and general youthful atmosphere of Florida fits him perfectly. Vegas and California teams offer similar situations while still being considered competitive teams. Arizona could have a similar draw, except for the lack of competitiveness. To me, Hanifin seems more Gaudreau than Tkachuk. He is less exuberant than Tkachuk, but more outgoing than Hamilton was. Youthful but not party all the time idea. I think Hanifin would do well in St. Louis, but I don’t see them having the need, space, or ability to trade for him. They have pieces I would like to get back, but both Kyrou and Thomas just signed big, long contracts, and Parayko has an NTC. Minnesota could be a good spot for Hanifin, but they would have their work cut out to re-sign him. Fleury and Goligoski UFA are the only real cap openings, enough to cover Hanifin’s new contract, likely bringing up Wallstedt to tandem in net. Other than Wallstedt, I don’t know what prospects the Flames would target, and the First round pick would be around the same as the Flames right now. A team that might make sense would be Chicago. They are in full rebuild mode with a ton of cap space, tons of draft picks in the next few years and may be willing to accelerate their rebuild. It is East for Hanifin, so closer to home, still a hockey town, in the U.S. and he would be playing with Bedard. Possible trade suggestion with Chicago: To CHI Hanifin Vladar Mangiapane To CGY Taylor Raddysh (26yo, 6’2 RW) Alex Vlasic (6’6 LD, 22yo) Samuel Savoie (19yo, 5’10 LW) 2025 1st round pick. Hanifin is still young enough to give Chicago steady D for years to come which they sorely need. Vladar helps in net as Mrazek has been ok but Soderblom has been ineffective at best. Mange gives them a known commodity who is good defensively, good secondary scoring, competitive and signed for another season. This would accelerate the Chicago rebuild for sure. I don’t think Chicago would be willing to do this year’s first (likely 1st overall but at worst 3rd), so next year’s would be included. Raddysh never really flourished but did score 20 last year and at 26 is likely exactly what he will be. 3rd line RW with ability to play 2nd RW when needed. Vlasic is a huge, young LD who may never be top pair but is described as steady, low risk D. Likely a mid or bottom pair. Savoie is still in the Q but is putting up solid offense. A little small, but not tiny at 5’10. https://www.capfriendly.com/scouting-reports/report/alex-vlasic-57934#:~:text=Averaging nearly 20%3A00 TOI,moving pucks from his zone. https://dobberprospects.com/player/samuel-savoie/ Basically this move accelerates the Chicago timeline for finishing their rebuild while it kickstarts Calgary’s with pieces that can step in soon without emptying Chicago’s cupboards. More of a hockey trade than a deadline push for a contender, but I think it helps both teams long term.

If we look at the hypothetical situation that the Flames ownership would allow the team to go full scorched earth for the rest of the season, and Conroy was ok in allowing losing to be ok, who become the supporting veteran cast to help bring the young guys along? Assuming scorched earth means Markstrom, Tanev, Hanifin, Andersson, Weegar, Kadri, Coleman, and even Mangiapane all get traded, who is left that is a Vet? Huberdeau and Backlund only. So what targets get signed who would be your leadership/insulators? Calgary, being a Canadian team already has difficulty drawing big names due to tax implications. Who will sign if the team is not competitive? On D, you won’t be getting a Montour or a Pesce, likely not even a Dumba or a Roy. You may get a Scandella or Johnson (35+) range looking for a retirement contract, but what is the point then? I don’t know if they are even the good role model types or not. Right now, I am more open to trading Andersson than I ever have been, but it needs to be a knock your socks off deal. Weegar is not someone I would move unless he requested a trade. He brings effort, leadership, quality play and is on a good contract, that only looks better as the cap, and subsequently salaries, go up over the next 8 years. I would keep him as your positive anchor piece on D. Coleman I would keep as the positive anchor piece for the forwards. Backlund is possibly retiring after this contract in 3 years anyways, Coleman has 4 more years until his 35+ contract. Neither Weegar, nor Coleman will block young guys, but they both insulate them with quality play until they are ready. So why move them if you need someone just like them anyway?